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Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory

 
Skeptical Texan
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08/07/2007 11:39 AM
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Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
By Christopher Wanjek, LiveScience Bad Medicine Columnist

The tide washes away memories, according to an ancient proverb. Bucking timeless wisdom, scientists last week said they have evidence that water maintains its own memory.

This bizarre assertion, beyond known laws of physics, supports a bizarre healing tradition called homeopathy, which is beyond laws of reason. The scientists claim that water can remember a substance mixed in it after the substance has been removed and, as a result, the water becomes therapeutic.

The claim comes as a full-court press in the current issue of the journal Homeopathy, dedicated to the "water memory" topic with nine articles on theory and laboratory experiments, as if to prove to the other 99.99 percent of the scientific community that there's something to this stuff after all.

The general medical consensus is that there's nothing to this stuff and that homeopathy entails nothing more than the placebo effect.

The delusion of dilution

Homeopathic medicine—crumb-size pills sold in little vials—comes across looking like real medicine, for it is often sold next to over-the-counter drugs in both upscale and mainstream pharmacies, from Whole Foods to CVS, with different medicines offered for common ailments such as flu or headaches.

Homeopathy, a 200-year-old tradition from Germany, is based on two principles: "like cures like" and "law of infinitesimals," stating that medicine becomes stronger as it is diluted. Miniscule amounts of, say, poison ivy can cure diaper rash; snake venom can cure joint stiffness.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with "like cures like." Vaccines employ a similar mechanism. The dilution idea is delusional, though.

Homeopathy was developed before knowledge of molecules. The "medicine" is added to water and is mixed and diluted over and over again. A typical homeopathic treatment might be diluted to 30X, which means one molecule of medicine in a million trillion trillion (10^30) molecules of water.

At this dilution level you'd need to drink 8,000 gallons of water to get one molecule of the medicine. Other homeopathic treatments are 30C, which is 100^30. There's not enough water in the solar system to accommodate this dilution.

Plan B, water must remember

Confronted with pesky laws of chemistry, homeopaths turned to skirting laws of physics. The water, they reason, must remember the shape of medicine and somehow etch this onto a pill.

In the current issue of Homeopathy, scientists present evidence not so much of water memory but of the potential for water to have memory. The authors claim that the act of diluting the medicine—vigorously shaking and cutting the mixture numerous times—imparts something to the water.

Exactly what it imparts is unclear. Perhaps silica from the vial leaches into the water, one paper suggests. Another author discusses the possibility of quantum entanglement, a poorly understood property of quantum physics in which two particles, placed at great distances from each other, can remain in synch as if side by side. (The alternative medicine maxim: When in doubt, go quantum.)

But does it work?

Coming up with bold theories to explain how homeopathy could work would be useful if homeopathy did work. Systematic reviews performed for the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine have found no evidence that homeopathy is an effective treatment for anything.

Similarly, a major homeopathy analysis published in The Lancet in 2005 found that the better a homeopathy study is performed, the more it is apparent that positive health outcomes are due to the placebo effect.

Dr. José Teixeira of France's National Center for Scientific Research (CNRS), a physicist who wrote the sole critical article about water memory for Homeopathy, told LiveScience the "characteristic times of liquid water are well known in physics." Water molecules can change orientation around another molecule, he said, but "the longest life of any structure observed in liquid water is of the order of a picosecond."

Teixeira said research on water memory is performed by earnest homeopaths hoping to find a biological mechanism for a healing art they the honestly believe in. Homeopaths are far from quacks. Many, particularly those based in Europe, complete three-year degrees or post-graduate medical training.

Homeopathy's therapeutic benefits could be attributed to the care homeopaths dedicate to their patients. Homeopaths routinely spend an hour with their patients, compared to ten-minute visit most of us receive at a mainstream physician's office. Mainstream doctors have much to learn from homeopaths.

As for this pursuit of how the ghost of a toxin can heal the body, perhaps in another generation's time we will no longer have memory of it.
silver
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08/07/2007 11:44 AM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
Homeopathy WORKS.

My friend's mother got breast cancer. She declined chemo, radiation and Tamoxifin. Instead, she used homeopathy medicine, and in one year her cancer was completely GONE.

Homeopathy works. It has been around for a long,long time because it works.
Anonymous Coward
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08/07/2007 11:51 AM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
water has memory - damn right.

search for `Masaru Emoto`.
Anonymous Coward
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08/07/2007 11:54 AM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
I'm sorry to see all the arguments against homeopathy are still the same. nothing new.
Skeptical Texan  (OP)

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08/07/2007 11:57 AM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
I'm sorry to see all the arguments against homeopathy are still the same. nothing new.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 274679


I'm sorry to see that the claims for homeopathy are still the same. Nothing new.
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2007 03:04 PM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
bump
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2007 03:23 PM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
I'm sorry to see that the claims for homeopathy are still the same. Nothing new.
 Quoting: Skeptical Texan

Then don't use it brother! Just don't send your jack-booted thugs to force us to take your chemo "cocktails". Fair enough?
jp
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11/10/2007 03:37 PM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
This topic is quite interesting and are the situations surrounding it. About 6 years ago this topic with the water memory came up. I found through research and article from a prestigious school and a research program proving this through a study done on rats. Also that it soon was to be released. Then a went back to it some time later and it was totally gone. Took me a few nanoseconds to realize how powerful our drug companies are.

Now consider the ways of western medicine and the ways we find unscientific of the orient and hindu practices.

hmmmmmm they sure have a longer life span then we do.

They didn't want Tesla to reveal waves and resonance back then I would assume they don't want it today.


[link to www.wanttoknow.info]

[link to www.trnmag.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2007 03:37 PM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
Try some research, Tex.


...Conventional wisdom says that the dissolved molecules simply spread further and further apart as a solution is diluted. But two chemists have found that some do the opposite: they clump together, first as clusters of molecules, then as bigger aggregates of those clusters. Far from drifting apart from their neighbours, they got closer together.

The discovery has stunned chemists, and could provide the first scientific insight into how some homeopathic remedies work. Homeopaths repeatedly dilute medications, believing that the higher the dilution, the more potent the remedy becomes.

Some dilute to "infinity" until no molecules of the remedy remain. They believe that water holds a memory, or "imprint" of the active ingredient which is more potent than the ingredient itself. But others use less dilute solutions - often diluting a remedy six-fold. The Korean findings might at last go some way to reconciling the potency of these less dilute solutions with orthodox science...

[link to www.newscientist.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2007 03:46 PM
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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
Homeopathy WORKS. Me, my wife and my children cured diseases - for which doctors prescribed antibiotics - by using only homeopathic medicine. IT WORKS!
Anonymous Coward
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11/10/2007 11:08 PM
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Millions of people around the world use homeopathy. Why? Because it works and because it's cheaper. This doesn't mean that a person should throw away their medications and not go to their doctors. They are especially good for diagnosing, testing and emergency services. The meds should be kept, esp. if they're helping relieve untolerable or serious conditions. Homeopathy, if chosen correctly, can help to strengthen a person's energy and sometimes get the person to a point where they can remove some or all meds with their doctor's permission.

Here are some of my testimonials. I didn't get the right remedy on the first shot many times, but these are the ones that worked.

My dog was dying on me once. Diarrhea, vomiting, starting to lose a lot of weight. It took me 3 days to figure out a remedy while he wasted away b4 my eyes. Arsenicum Alba saved his life and within a hour, he was jumping on the bed again - unlike for days, he was just lying on the floor. I was about to take him to the vet if that third one didn't work, but it did and he recovered beautifully.

My daughter caught the flu a few times from school. I gave her tylenol and it did nothing for her. On two occasions, she needed Eupertorium Perfolatum and within seconds, she would respond and cure would commence, even after having a fever for more than 5 days on both occassions.

My daughter had warts all over her fingers. I took her to a homeopath. Baryta Carbonica made the warts disappear and she started to finally gain weight and grow hair -something she didn't do in two years.

My husband had the flu once. I gave him Bryonia and soon after he was up and feeling better.

My mother was malnourished in the nursing home because they were starving her to death. She was very sickly. I gave her Arsenicum Alba and she started to recover.

My nephew burned himself on his abdomen and he was in pain. I gave him Cantharis and the pain stopped. Now, I used my hands for simple burns as I'm able to help others heal w/ my hands for simple stuff. Of course serious burns need medical attention.

My grandmother fell and hit her face along the way. She had a really huge black and blue on her face and her eye would open. I gave her arnica and the redness started to disappear before my eyes. Then I gave her Ledum and she finally opened her eye.

My brother-in-law got into a fight and got clubbed in the eye. I gave him arnica and he started screaming. The blood was now rushing to his eye. After days of not being able to see, he was able to see again from that eye- although blurry. He did re-gain full vision later on.

A girl who visited my daughter ran into one of the corners and had an eggnog on her forehead. Now, I couldn't give her any by mouth, so I put a drop of arnica on her skin. Within minutes, the lump went away.

Arnica is great. My daughter ran into a gate and had an eggnog on her forehead too. After an hour, she was still whining. I gave her arnica and within minutes, she stopped the whining.

I banged my knee. By night fall, it was still hurting. I took some arnica by skin and it stopped hurting as much. By the next morning, the pain on my knee was gone.

I can't help but sing praises for arnica. My brother got beat up by a perp. He's a cop and very skeptical. After days of still feeling bruised, I gave him arnica and he finally started feeling better.

My daughter fell off her bike and fractured her arm. I gave her a pill of arnica 30c and repeated the dry dose again 5 minutes later. She was still complaining, felt dizzy. I gave it to her in a water solution 15 minutes later and she got up suddenly. I splinted her arm, went to the hospital and even the doctor couldn't tell her arm was fractured because there was NO BRUISING, SWELLING. NADA. I knew something was wrong because it was slightly turned. After it was set, I then used symphytum 6c and calcarea phos 6c to promote bone growth. Calcarea Phos worked so well that 6 of her baby teeth started to move instead of the usual 4.

I had severe upper limb twitching once and Ignatia took it away. I had severe palpitations once and it's now minimal. I had severe back pain once and it's gone.

It doesn't always work to cure me because the wrong remedy was selected, but it does work none the less. I can't take a certain remedy without it affecting me. For example, I took 4 doses of Rhus tox and had to sleep on the hard floor for 3 nights. I can't even whiff the remedy because it causes an effect on me due to my sensitivity. Heck, once I gave my daughter belladonna twice when she had a fever and she started having that wild look in her eyes. She's a bit sensitive too. Took her to the hospital that night and while waiting two-three hours to see the doctor, the fever went away.

All those cures were when I was just using them for acutes. I've been studying it seriously for a few years now to become a layperson homeopath.
blackcat66
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11/10/2007 11:47 PM
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Pharmaceutical Industries are declaring war on Homeopathy and alternative medicines, because more and more people are using them. Are those pharmaceutical companies to allow millions of dollars go away?. Of course not.

I didn't use to believe in homeopathy. I got a very severe gastritis some years ago. I spent a lot of money on doctors, costly studies and treatments. The gastritis will go away as long as I was taking the treatment, then, it would come back and worse.

A friend of mine, took me to her homeopath and since in 3 months the gastritis was totally gone and never came back.

Since then, my family and I only use homeopathy, and home remedies and our health has never been better.
Anonymous Coward
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11/11/2007 12:06 AM
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Homeopathy is a complete fraud. Doctors and scientists have shown that it is of no value in study after study. Despite this, believers in this scam simply refuse to acknowledge reality. The best solution is simply to prosecute so called homeopaths for practicing medicine without a license. Those people are nothing but frauds who prey on the weak and the stupid - they belong in prison.
Mr. PredictorModerator
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11/11/2007 12:34 AM

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Re: Homeopathy and the Folly of Watery Memory
Homeopathy WORKS. Me, my wife and my children cured diseases - for which doctors prescribed antibiotics - by using only homeopathic medicine. IT WORKS!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 324541


you are right, faith healing works
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