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Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78073861
Canada
01/05/2020 07:10 PM
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Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
My dad had a heart attack Thursday and was taken in by ambulance. He was stable when he arrived and they told him they would get him to a hospital better equipped on Monday for tests. I guess at the time he didn't seem to be that bad.

His cardiologist told him that if he had another one before that, there was a good chance that even if they could save him he'd wind up an invalid in a nursing home, and would probably die soon after. He asked if my dad would agree to a do not resuscitate order in case that happened. My dad agreed. Later on that night he slowly began to worsen, and got worse overnight. By the time my mother got there the next morning his heart rate was 38 BPM and he was on the edge of unconsciousness and death. The nurse came running over the second my mom got there begging my mom to let her treat my father. Of course my mom was puzzled, why would you not treat him? Yes go ahead and treat him, she told the nurse.

The nurse worked frantically for 20 minutes or so and got his heart rate back up to 50 or so and they put him in an ambulance for the ride over to the other hospital. The "do not resuscitate order" my dad agreed to was essentially a do not treat order. Of course they never sold it to him that way. He was under the impression they were going to do nothing if he was already dead. All night they did nothing... even though all they had to do was give him a few drugs to stabilize him enough to get him well enough to take the ride over and get proper treatment.

"Do not resuscitate," means a certain thing to you and me. Do not bring me back if I'm dead. What it means to the Canadian medical system is another thing altogether. For them it means, "do not treat and let you die." If you do ever wind up in a situation like that, you better have somebody there 24/7 who can make sure that you're getting what you thought you agreed to. In my dad's case they could have saved him, and in the end did, but only because my mother was there to demand it. Or don't agree to it period. They outright lied to my dad when they told him what he was agreeing to. He was agreeing to be allowed to die when all hope was lost. That's not what happened, and the proof is that 3 hours later he was in recovery scheduled to go home on Monday alive.

How many people they've done that to, and have died. I can't even imagine it. I give you a warning my friends. I don't even know what to say right now. Other than I'm happy my father is still alive.
Wolf 1776

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01/05/2020 07:14 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
bump
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3643297

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01/05/2020 07:19 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Good to know. Glad it had a happy ending.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23988557
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01/05/2020 07:19 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Never let them give you morphine if you are on a breathing machine either. Morphine makes it more difficult to breathe.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 61342957
Canada
01/05/2020 07:19 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
yes the whole (((system))) is rotten and corrupt

glad your father made it out OP
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 78073861
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01/05/2020 07:24 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I just can't believe they would do that. That they would misrepresent something like that. We're planning to let you die, and not doing anything when you're already dead, are so vastly different things, they're barely even related.

They certainly never told him, we're just going to let you die no matter what, best of luck buddy, hope you're still here on Monday. That's so disgusting. I have no words to convey how sickening that is to do that to a person. I wouldn't do that to my worst enemy.
Theobromine The Deplorable

User ID: 2548253
United States
01/05/2020 07:26 PM

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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
DNR means make no effort to “cure”

Only keep comfortable

My Dad had one - it takes two Doctor’s to sign the certificate after they examine and determine that treatment - ANY treatment for ANY adverse event such as a heart attack would not lead to a better quality of life .

In fact it could lead to a much lower quality of life - forcing the family to watch their loved one suffer and just fail becoming skin and bones and not recognizing anyone.

If you have a DNR it MUST be posted on the DOOR where the patient is - even if at home - so ALL WHO ENTER can see it

In case someone calls a 911 emergency - let’s say the sick person fell out of bed - or had a heart attack - the paramedics could put them back into bed - but MAY NOT DO CPR if it’s a stroke or heart attack

Most people know this

I am glad it takes two doctors to sign the certificate

We had to take him for the second opinion doctor - it was a big deal - they spoke to Mom and Dad together and separately - ALL doctors and family must agree before they will sign it

Last Edited by Theobromine on 01/05/2020 07:29 PM
"What are you helping with all this helping?" Buddhist saying
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 78073861
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01/05/2020 07:28 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Never let them give you morphine if you are on a breathing machine either. Morphine makes it more difficult to breathe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23988557


That actually might have played a role in it. My mom mentioned that they did give him some after he got there. Now we're talking murder instead of just neglect, if what you're saying is true.

I better get out of here before I do something rash. I shouldn't be talking about this anymore tonight. Bottom line: If the doctor starts that conversation with you, just be wary of it. That's my advice to all of you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76195662
Canada
01/05/2020 07:30 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Damn thats fucking nazi-like.. Your poor dad suffered all night with no help because Dr.Kevorkians son was essentially the guy on call and got him to sign a do not treat order? Wtf.. I'd be fucking the doctor up out in the parking lot.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76195662
Canada
01/05/2020 07:31 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Never let them give you morphine if you are on a breathing machine either. Morphine makes it more difficult to breathe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23988557


That actually might have played a role in it. My mom mentioned that they did give him some after he got there. Now we're talking murder instead of just neglect, if what you're saying is true.

I better get out of here before I do something rash. I shouldn't be talking about this anymore tonight. Bottom line: If the doctor starts that conversation with you, just be wary of it. That's my advice to all of you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


Was the doctor an immigrant? These fuckers have no business practicing in the 1st world..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 78073861
Canada
01/05/2020 07:34 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
DNR means make no effort to “cure”

Only keep comfortable


 Quoting: Theobromine The Deplorable


You may be right about that, and probably are. In fact, obviously you are correct. But that's not what DNR means to me, or 99% of people who don't work in the medical industry. And that's not how the cardiologist explained it to my father.

He did not say, "no matter what, between now and Monday, we are going to do absolutely dick all nothing for you, good luck."

Anyway that's enough for now. I'm gonna just relax the rest of the evening.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76770632
United States
01/05/2020 07:36 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Wow

Some Doctors are evil
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76770632
United States
01/05/2020 07:36 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
God bless
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78311580
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01/05/2020 07:36 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I’m surprised that you’re surprised, OP.

Actually, I’m nearly amazed that you don’t understand what a DNR agreement means.

How the hell did you come up with the idea that a DNR applies if you’re DEAD??!?

That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, if you’re having a heart attack, a DNR means to LET you die.

How did you NOT understand that??
.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76770632
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01/05/2020 07:37 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Did he have to sign the do not resuscitate order?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23988557
United States
01/05/2020 07:38 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Never let them give you morphine if you are on a breathing machine either. Morphine makes it more difficult to breathe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23988557


That actually might have played a role in it. My mom mentioned that they did give him some after he got there. Now we're talking murder instead of just neglect, if what you're saying is true.

I better get out of here before I do something rash. I shouldn't be talking about this anymore tonight. Bottom line: If the doctor starts that conversation with you, just be wary of it. That's my advice to all of you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


Most nurses are so brainwashed they don't know what they are doing. Yours was a hero who wanted to treat him. Yes, be careful what you say, and ask for copies of his file. And GTFO of there as soon as possible.
Judethz

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01/05/2020 07:41 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Good to know. Glad it had a happy ending.
 Quoting: 3643297


bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14720901
United States
01/05/2020 07:47 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Never let them give you morphine if you are on a breathing machine either. Morphine makes it more difficult to breathe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23988557


That actually might have played a role in it. My mom mentioned that they did give him some after he got there. Now we're talking murder instead of just neglect, if what you're saying is true.

I better get out of here before I do something rash. I shouldn't be talking about this anymore tonight. Bottom line: If the doctor starts that conversation with you, just be wary of it. That's my advice to all of you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


hf
Click Here Again

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01/05/2020 07:54 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I’m surprised that you’re surprised, OP.

Actually, I’m nearly amazed that you don’t understand what a DNR agreement means.

How the hell did you come up with the idea that a DNR applies if you’re DEAD??!?

That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, if you’re having a heart attack, a DNR means to LET you die.

How did you NOT understand that??
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78311580


Because of the verbiage. If you're a literalist, it means, don't try to bring me back if I'm gone. "Do not" self explanatory... Resuscitate - revive someone from consciousness or apparent death. I can understand the misunderstanding.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 76288549
United States
01/05/2020 07:56 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Just searched for and got this definition of DNR.

DNR means "Do Not Resuscitate." DNR orders are written instructions from a physician telling health care providers not to perform Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)

The word resuscitate itself means to 'cause to regain consciousness.'

Thanks for the warning!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 4812794
United States
01/05/2020 07:59 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
bsflag
Doctor Manhattan

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01/05/2020 08:03 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
My dad had a heart attack Thursday and was taken in by ambulance. He was stable when he arrived and they told him they would get him to a hospital better equipped on Monday for tests. I guess at the time he didn't seem to be that bad.

His cardiologist told him that if he had another one before that, there was a good chance that even if they could save him he'd wind up an invalid in a nursing home, and would probably die soon after. He asked if my dad would agree to a do not resuscitate order in case that happened. My dad agreed. Later on that night he slowly began to worsen, and got worse overnight. By the time my mother got there the next morning his heart rate was 38 BPM and he was on the edge of unconsciousness and death. The nurse came running over the second my mom got there begging my mom to let her treat my father. Of course my mom was puzzled, why would you not treat him? Yes go ahead and treat him, she told the nurse.

The nurse worked frantically for 20 minutes or so and got his heart rate back up to 50 or so and they put him in an ambulance for the ride over to the other hospital. The "do not resuscitate order" my dad agreed to was essentially a do not treat order. Of course they never sold it to him that way. He was under the impression they were going to do nothing if he was already dead. All night they did nothing... even though all they had to do was give him a few drugs to stabilize him enough to get him well enough to take the ride over and get proper treatment.

"Do not resuscitate," means a certain thing to you and me. Do not bring me back if I'm dead. What it means to the Canadian medical system is another thing altogether. For them it means, "do not treat and let you die." If you do ever wind up in a situation like that, you better have somebody there 24/7 who can make sure that you're getting what you thought you agreed to. In my dad's case they could have saved him, and in the end did, but only because my mother was there to demand it. Or don't agree to it period. They outright lied to my dad when they told him what he was agreeing to. He was agreeing to be allowed to die when all hope was lost. That's not what happened, and the proof is that 3 hours later he was in recovery scheduled to go home on Monday alive.

How many people they've done that to, and have died. I can't even imagine it. I give you a warning my friends. I don't even know what to say right now. Other than I'm happy my father is still alive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


Glad your Dad is doing good I had a DNR on my mother but I was there 24/7, can't imagine a scenario like that if it went bad...I would crack.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77846618
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01/05/2020 08:03 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
DNR means make no effort to “cure”

Only keep comfortable


 Quoting: Theobromine The Deplorable


You may be right about that, and probably are. In fact, obviously you are correct. But that's not what DNR means to me, or 99% of people who don't work in the medical industry. And that's not how the cardiologist explained it to my father.

He did not say, "no matter what, between now and Monday, we are going to do absolutely dick all nothing for you, good luck."

Anyway that's enough for now. I'm gonna just relax the rest of the evening.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


Thanks for posting. hf
Prayers for Op and family
User ID: 74102866
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01/05/2020 08:10 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I’m surprised that you’re surprised, OP.

Actually, I’m nearly amazed that you don’t understand what a DNR agreement means.

How the hell did you come up with the idea that a DNR applies if you’re DEAD??!?

That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah, if you’re having a heart attack, a DNR means to LET you die.

How did you NOT understand that??
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78311580


Because of the verbiage. If you're a literalist, it means, don't try to bring me back if I'm gone. "Do not" self explanatory... Resuscitate - revive someone from consciousness or apparent death. I can understand the misunderstanding.
 Quoting: Click Here Again


^^^This.
Same thing happened in the U.S. when my Mom died. They were not treating her for her pneumonia then someone gave her a feeding tube which was an error and prolinged the suffering. Then they removed the feeding tube. When we got there the Dr. Laughed at me when i was crying she's like "Do you think she's dying?" She said she wasn't but she was in the icu. Intensive care unit. Then a few days later she was sent to hospice. She was screaming in pain the entire time she was in the hospital. At hospice at least she was in a peaceful coma like state she died a few days later no doubt from the drugs they gave her but her quality of life was horrible from all the EXTRENE never ending pain and morphine they gave her (oxys).

She had a broken back and a fused neck. She had health insurance she was a nurse and got injured at work when someone left a scalpel in a clean towel and she got hurt reinjuring her neck-back that was healing after surgery.

The whole health insurance thing was complete bullshit she never missed a payment her whole life she had health insurance.

Since it happened at work she had to fight workers comp to either pay it or deny it (workers conp refused to pay the $100,000 for the surgery and her regular insurance would not pay because it happened at work. A few VERY LONG VERY PAINFUL 2 years later she fibally won her court case but by that time was too weak-sick and her lupus all but destroyed her so her white blood cell count was too low to get the surgery.

The whole system is fucked up.

Prayers for your Dad Op- leave that hospital and stay hyper vigalente. Remove the DNR stat!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78314550
Greece
01/05/2020 08:22 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I didn't read the OP, because I know it first hand.
As a medical professional, I was shocked at how the DNR was used in my mother's case.
In short, she said I dont want tubes in me, set up the DNR.
I did it at her behest in case she coded.
She needed life saving surgery, which was, done, but then because of the DNR, they refused to do anything to facilitate her recovery.
She was 82 years old.
With the proper adjuncts, she would have come through.
They denied it all.
By the time I realized what was happening, she had started to deteriorate.
I demanded the DNR be removed, but they still didn't perform any of the corrective procedures.
The Dr said to me, well she had a good run but *shrug*
I curse his shitty hair plugs to this day.
She died about 4 days after surgery.

NEVER EVER PUT A DNR IN PLACE UNLESS YOUR LOVED ONE IS HOSPICE.
As DNRs are not what they tell you they are for.
At all.
Serepta Ann

User ID: 78276203
United States
01/05/2020 08:23 PM

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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Let's talk about the other end of that, my dad had a dnr, he had a heart attack just before father's day and kept having a series of attacks, on Father's day he coded. The dr ignored the DNR and brought him back, which brought on a month of misery for all of us, he never recovered, he never got better and a month later WE as a family had to make the decision to disconnect.

Yes everyone should understand what a DNR is and everyone should honor it, dr's included
You have to train your mind to be stronger than your emotions or you will lose yourself every time
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78314550
Greece
01/05/2020 08:23 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
My dad had a heart attack Thursday and was taken in by ambulance. He was stable when he arrived and they told him they would get him to a hospital better equipped on Monday for tests. I guess at the time he didn't seem to be that bad.

His cardiologist told him that if he had another one before that, there was a good chance that even if they could save him he'd wind up an invalid in a nursing home, and would probably die soon after. He asked if my dad would agree to a do not resuscitate order in case that happened. My dad agreed. Later on that night he slowly began to worsen, and got worse overnight. By the time my mother got there the next morning his heart rate was 38 BPM and he was on the edge of unconsciousness and death. The nurse came running over the second my mom got there begging my mom to let her treat my father. Of course my mom was puzzled, why would you not treat him? Yes go ahead and treat him, she told the nurse.

The nurse worked frantically for 20 minutes or so and got his heart rate back up to 50 or so and they put him in an ambulance for the ride over to the other hospital. The "do not resuscitate order" my dad agreed to was essentially a do not treat order. Of course they never sold it to him that way. He was under the impression they were going to do nothing if he was already dead. All night they did nothing... even though all they had to do was give him a few drugs to stabilize him enough to get him well enough to take the ride over and get proper treatment.

"Do not resuscitate," means a certain thing to you and me. Do not bring me back if I'm dead. What it means to the Canadian medical system is another thing altogether. For them it means, "do not treat and let you die." If you do ever wind up in a situation like that, you better have somebody there 24/7 who can make sure that you're getting what you thought you agreed to. In my dad's case they could have saved him, and in the end did, but only because my mother was there to demand it. Or don't agree to it period. They outright lied to my dad when they told him what he was agreeing to. He was agreeing to be allowed to die when all hope was lost. That's not what happened, and the proof is that 3 hours later he was in recovery scheduled to go home on Monday alive.

How many people they've done that to, and have died. I can't even imagine it. I give you a warning my friends. I don't even know what to say right now. Other than I'm happy my father is still alive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78073861


I wish your dad and family the best.
Happy New Year
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78314550
Greece
01/05/2020 08:25 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
Let's talk about the other end of that, my dad had a dnr, he had a heart attack just before father's day and kept having a series of attacks, on Father's day he coded. The dr ignored the DNR and brought him back, which brought on a month of misery for all of us, he never recovered, he never got better and a month later WE as a family had to make the decision to disconnect.

Yes everyone should understand what a DNR is and everyone should honor it, dr's included
 Quoting: Serepta Ann


Let's talk about the other end of that, my dad had a dnr, he had a heart attack just before father's day and kept having a series of attacks, on Father's day he coded. The dr ignored the DNR and brought him back, which brought on a month of misery for all of us, he never recovered, he never got better and a month later WE as a family had to make the decision to disconnect.

Yes everyone should understand what a DNR is and everyone should honor it, dr's included
 Quoting: Serepta Ann


The doc shouldn't have done that.
That's why a DNR is there. Fur the code only. I'd have spoken To the medical director of the hospital directly.
No kidding.
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2020 08:34 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
I once woke up in a morgue. I woke up just before they were about to push me in the crematorium. You've probably read about it recently.
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2020 08:38 PM
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Re: Never agree to a do not resuscitate order at the hospital
bump





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