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It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 08:14 AM
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It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
Commemorations of the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Warsaw by the Soviet army from Nazi occupation in WWII were supposed to bring people together. Instead, they are driving Poland and Russia apart in a new war of words.
On 29 December, the Polish Prime Minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, issued a blistering attack on President Putin, accusing him of “lying” about the history of the Second World War and about Poland’s role in it. Morawiecki claimed that the USSR “started” the Second World War by signing the non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany on 23 August 1939, and that Putin, by defending the Pact, was trying to rehabilitate Stalinism.

This spat originated in a resolution approved, on a Polish initiative, in the European Parliament in September. It alleged that the Second World War started “as an immediate result of the notorious Nazi-Soviet Treaty on Non-Aggression signed on 23 August 1939 … whereby two totalitarian regimes that shared the goal of world conquest divided Europe into two zones of influence.”

Putin had replied to this allegation, saying that Poland shared some of the responsibility for the outbreak of the war because its government had firmly rejected all attempts by Britain, France and the Soviet Union to agree on a collective security pact to stop Hitler. The Soviets had demanded that their troops be allowed to pass into Polish territory to meet any German advance and the Poles refused. It was to this claim by Putin that Morawiecki was reacting so fiercely.

Unfortunately, it is Putin who is right and Morawiecki and the Poles who are wrong. The events leading up to the outbreak of the war in Europe cannot be reduced to the signature of the Nazi-Soviet Pact alone. To argue, as the Poles do, that the war would not have broken out without it (that the Pact “started” the war or that it was “the immediate result” of it) is an absurd distortion of the truth which none of the actors of the time would have recognized.

The truth is that Hitler was bent on his goal of dominating Europe, a goal Joseph Stalin (unlike Lenin) did not share. Ever since he published Mein Kampf in 1925, Hitler never made any secret of his desire to overturn the Versailles treaty, to subjugate Eastern Europe to create Lebensraum ('living space') for Germans, to destroy Soviet Bolshevism and to make Germany into a world power. On 11 August 1939, Hitler told Carl Jacob Burckhardt, “Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend that, I will be forced to come to an understanding with the Russians, to smash the West and then after its defeat, to turn against the Soviet Union.”
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/17/2020 08:16 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
[link to www.rt.com (secure)]

The Soviets betrayed Poles as they divided the country with Hitler

The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, officially known as the Treaty of Non-Aggression between Germany and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, was a neutrality pact between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union signed in Moscow on August 23, 1939, by foreign ministers Joachim von Ribbentrop and Vyacheslav Molotov, respectively.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Imagine if Hitler had not decided to invade Russia, the Soviets would be Nazi's best friends today and no ANTIFAs would exist hiding
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/17/2020 08:19 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
The Vistula–Oder Offensive was a successful Red Army operation on the Eastern Front in the European Theatre of World War II in January 1945. It saw the capture of Kraków, Warsaw and Poznań.

The Red Army had built up their strength around a number of key bridgeheads, with two fronts commanded by Marshal Georgy Zhukov and Marshal Ivan Konev. Against them, the German Army Group A, led by Colonel-General Josef Harpe (soon replaced by Colonel-General Ferdinand Schörner), was outnumbered 5:1. Within days, German commandants evacuated the concentration camps, sending the prisoners on their death marches to the west, where ethnic Germans also started fleeing. In a little over two weeks, the Red Army had advanced 300 miles (483 km) from the Vistula to the Oder, only 43 miles (69 km) from Berlin, which was undefended. But Zhukov called a halt, owing to continued German resistance on his northern flank (Pomerania), and the advance on Berlin had to be delayed until April.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 08:25 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
And the whole time human slaughterhouses would have been just fine with the rest of the world? Probably not.
jdfearl

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01/17/2020 08:27 AM

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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
why didn't England and France declare war on Russia for invading Poland like they did against Germany.
The Russians killed just as many if not more Poles than the Germans did.
I'd love to change the world
But I don't know what to do
So I'll leave it up to you
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 08:35 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
why didn't England and France declare war on Russia for invading Poland like they did against Germany.
The Russians killed just as many if not more Poles than the Germans did.
 Quoting: jdfearl


Russians weren't bombing London or on the edges of Western Europe.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 08:59 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
If Hitler didn’t invade Russia, you think the Russians didn’t have any plans for expansion? They clearly did based on their behavior after the war.

Patton remarked after the war that we should have allied with the Germans against the Bolsheviks and based on the world we now have, he was absolutely right.
Accidental Stoner
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01/17/2020 09:04 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
Simply no telling, just how many Russians got killed by their own. That is the fugly truth of it. There was as good as 0
protection of the rights of private soldiers (and civilians).
Accidental Stoner
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01/17/2020 09:06 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
why didn't England and France declare war on Russia for invading Poland like they did against Germany.
The Russians killed just as many if not more Poles than the Germans did.
 Quoting: jdfearl


Russians weren't bombing London or on the edges of Western Europe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78338784


Germany was bombing London and attacking Western Europe in September 1939..?
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 09:31 AM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler

The Russians killed just as many if not more Poles than the Germans did.



false.
Educated Redneck

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01/17/2020 03:57 PM

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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
If Hitler didn’t invade Russia, you think the Russians didn’t have any plans for expansion? They clearly did based on their behavior after the war.

Patton remarked after the war that we should have allied with the Germans against the Bolsheviks and based on the world we now have, he was absolutely right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78342495


Patton was a warrior and wanted to continue on to defeat the Communists. But Patton drastically underestimated the strength of the Soviet Union and it is likely that the entirety of Europe would have been Communist in short order if WWIII had begun as soon as WWII ended.

Operation Unthinkable was the plan to have the Western Allies push the Red Army back. Those in command well above Patton quickly realized that the Western Allies couldn't win. The Soviets would have vastly outnumbered the Western Allies in manpower, tanks, artillery and combat aircraft. The Soviet tanks were also superior to the US Shermans that made up the majority of the Western Allies tank forces.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 04:14 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
It's amazing watching leftists endlessly ignore 7+ decades of Soviet genocide & write apolgist propaganda for the Soviet Union. That was most murderous, warmongering regime in modern history. Stalin was invading one country after the next in the 1930s-1940s. The Communists always were & still are hellbent on total world domination.

I love Poland! They suffered 5 decades under Soviet enslavement & nobody knows better than them the evils of Marxism.
John The Baptist
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01/17/2020 04:14 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
You think that Hitler was free of double agent general working for Zionist bolsheviks?. Have you not forgotten the failed assassination attempted in the Wolf Den?.

Let alone Operation Barbarossa that contracted Operation Bolshevik?.

Auschwitz was not the first holocaust, there was another in America next to Russia border had conducted bacteriological and chemical experiments on Wounded Knee before WW1, also responsible for Spanish influenza outbreak which killed more than a hundred millions.

And the greatest Zionist propaganda history ever told, coming shoon.

Hitler went to heaven and when you understand this, you will understand God.- Conversations With God, Vol 1
Wayfaring Stranger

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01/17/2020 04:29 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
NATO and any of her friends are all chronic liars, they have to be or their crimes would have them all exiled to Antarctica. (with minimal provisions)
Educated Redneck

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01/17/2020 05:07 PM

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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
It's amazing watching leftists endlessly ignore 7+ decades of Soviet genocide & write apolgist propaganda for the Soviet Union. That was most murderous, warmongering regime in modern history. Stalin was invading one country after the next in the 1930s-1940s. The Communists always were & still are hellbent on total world domination.

I love Poland! They suffered 5 decades under Soviet enslavement & nobody knows better than them the evils of Marxism.
 Quoting: XeroGravity


What countries do you think the Soviet Union invaded in the 1930s - 1940s?

Other than fighting with Japan in Mongolia/China the Soviets only invaded the areas agreed to by Nazi Germany in the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. That would be the eastern half of Poland, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania.

The Communist Soviet Union was a brutal thing.... but Communism created a weak nation and without Germany destabilizing Europe it is doubtful that Stalin would have been able to spread communism as far as he did.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 05:11 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
Poland is undefensible to modern militaries, being located in an undefensible region of the eauropean plain..
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
01/17/2020 05:13 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
The Soviets did not bring freedom to Poland.

The Soviets brought another occupation to Poland.

Watch this 5 minute video:



[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
T-Man
Entitled title

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01/17/2020 05:14 PM

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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
hiding

Last Edited by T-Man on 01/17/2020 05:19 PM
How do you solve a problem?

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01/17/2020 05:20 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
I think the Polish people will recover when the horrible Russian building in Warsaw is painted pink ..

It is a mess ....all the slaughter ..

We need to turn the page and start a fresh ....

I am sorry many Russians were killed ...I am sorry many ancient Hebrews were killed .

It was a horrible mess .....

I do not understand the blood lust or the need to invade tribal areas .

I am sorry the Russian alliance with Hitler failed .......but what did you expect ?

As my Grandfather and father were Polish I have heard the stories .

Russia has so much land why do they need to go west ?

Why did Hitler want to go East ?

It is hard to rule the world and none of these countries are capable of it .

France failed too ..Napoleon .

World domination is impossible .

Get a grip ...we need to concentrate on making better societies in our ancestral lands while getting on with our neighbours .

Stop squabbling and behaving like infant males ....

Time we all grew up.

...and make things better ...

Money means nothing when we leave this reality ...it is of the devil...as is world domination...
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2020 05:21 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
If Hitler didn’t invade Russia, you think the Russians didn’t have any plans for expansion? They clearly did based on their behavior after the war.

Patton remarked after the war that we should have allied with the Germans against the Bolsheviks and based on the world we now have, he was absolutely right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78342495


Patton was a warrior and wanted to continue on to defeat the Communists. But Patton drastically underestimated the strength of the Soviet Union and it is likely that the entirety of Europe would have been Communist in short order if WWIII had begun as soon as WWII ended.

Operation Unthinkable was the plan to have the Western Allies push the Red Army back. Those in command well above Patton quickly realized that the Western Allies couldn't win. The Soviets would have vastly outnumbered the Western Allies in manpower, tanks, artillery and combat aircraft. The Soviet tanks were also superior to the US Shermans that made up the majority of the Western Allies tank forces.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Educated Redneck


And how would the soviets have paid for it?
Where did they get the steel?
Their war machine was supplied by western banks and corporations.
Educated Redneck

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01/17/2020 06:19 PM

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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
If Hitler didn’t invade Russia, you think the Russians didn’t have any plans for expansion? They clearly did based on their behavior after the war.

Patton remarked after the war that we should have allied with the Germans against the Bolsheviks and based on the world we now have, he was absolutely right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78342495


Patton was a warrior and wanted to continue on to defeat the Communists. But Patton drastically underestimated the strength of the Soviet Union and it is likely that the entirety of Europe would have been Communist in short order if WWIII had begun as soon as WWII ended.

Operation Unthinkable was the plan to have the Western Allies push the Red Army back. Those in command well above Patton quickly realized that the Western Allies couldn't win. The Soviets would have vastly outnumbered the Western Allies in manpower, tanks, artillery and combat aircraft. The Soviet tanks were also superior to the US Shermans that made up the majority of the Western Allies tank forces.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Educated Redneck


And how would the soviets have paid for it?
Where did they get the steel?
Their war machine was supplied by western banks and corporations.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 41749951


By 1945 the Soviet war machine was already there. A huge force with tanks and artillery and planes and experienced troops were in eastern Germany and all along the eastern front. The Soviet Union had the raw materials and they had moved their industrial centers out of the reach of the Germans which would have put them out of reach for the Western Allies. Without Lend Lease they would have had to supply their own steel but Magnitogorsk was already a major steel producer.

Don't underestimate them, both Hitler and Napoleon did and they paid dearly for it.
AC360
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01/17/2020 07:37 PM
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Re: It’s inhumane of Poland to obscure the memory of the ocean of blood the Soviet Army shed to defeat Hitler
Commemorations of the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Warsaw by the Soviet army from Nazi occupation in WWII were supposed to bring people together. Instead, they are driving Poland and Russia apart in a new war of words.
On 29 December, the Polish Prime Minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, issued a blistering attack on President Putin, accusing him of “lying” about the history of the Second World War and about Poland’s role in it. Morawiecki claimed that the USSR “started” the Second World War by signing the non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany on 23 August 1939, and that Putin, by defending the Pact, was trying to rehabilitate Stalinism.

This spat originated in a resolution approved, on a Polish initiative, in the European Parliament in September. It alleged that the Second World War started “as an immediate result of the notorious Nazi-Soviet Treaty on Non-Aggression signed on 23 August 1939 … whereby two totalitarian regimes that shared the goal of world conquest divided Europe into two zones of influence.”

Putin had replied to this allegation, saying that Poland shared some of the responsibility for the outbreak of the war because its government had firmly rejected all attempts by Britain, France and the Soviet Union to agree on a collective security pact to stop Hitler. The Soviets had demanded that their troops be allowed to pass into Polish territory to meet any German advance and the Poles refused. It was to this claim by Putin that Morawiecki was reacting so fiercely.

Unfortunately, it is Putin who is right and Morawiecki and the Poles who are wrong. The events leading up to the outbreak of the war in Europe cannot be reduced to the signature of the Nazi-Soviet Pact alone. To argue, as the Poles do, that the war would not have broken out without it (that the Pact “started” the war or that it was “the immediate result” of it) is an absurd distortion of the truth which none of the actors of the time would have recognized.

The truth is that Hitler was bent on his goal of dominating Europe, a goal Joseph Stalin (unlike Lenin) did not share. Ever since he published Mein Kampf in 1925, Hitler never made any secret of his desire to overturn the Versailles treaty, to subjugate Eastern Europe to create Lebensraum ('living space') for Germans, to destroy Soviet Bolshevism and to make Germany into a world power. On 11 August 1939, Hitler told Carl Jacob Burckhardt, “Everything I undertake is directed against Russia. If the West is too stupid and too blind to comprehend that, I will be forced to come to an understanding with the Russians, to smash the West and then after its defeat, to turn against the Soviet Union.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20038442


KATYN (atrocity committed by the Red Army on the Poles) KATYN
KATYN. And you're upset when the victims ignore their murderers. Cut them some slack, it's their mass murderers that you are asking them to recognize. Oh the offense, the murderers have to throw a pity party.





GLP