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Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

 
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 01:27 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
1. So The Father's throne and the seraphim are "inside of us"?

2. Is a new heaven going to happen "INSIDE US" when Christ returns?

3. Is a new earth going to be formed INSIDE US?

4. So the "New Jerusalem" descends "into us" - and NOT "down to earth"?

5. So...when we die we go "into our own selves"?????

6. So Ezekial was taken "inside himself" instead of heaven ABOVE?

7. So the throne and seraphims that Isaiah saw in Chapter 9 were "inside himself"?

8. So the throne and other things John described in Revelation were "inside himself"?

9. How about Enoch? Was everything he described actually "inside himself"?

10. So when God TOOK Enoch - He took him to "inside himself"?

11. So the "paradise" that Paul was taken "UP" to was "inside Himself"?

12. Jesus ASCENDED "into people" - NOT into heaven above???

13. So "the Father's house" and the "many mansions" that Jesus talks about - are ALL inside of US - where YOU say the kingdom of God exists?

14. So the Father SENT Jesus from "inside ourselves"?

15. So the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit from "inside ourselves"?

16. So when Elijah was taken by the chariot, he was taken to "inside himself"?

17. ALL the souls under the alter in Revelation 6:9 are "inside us"???

18. So where is the "heaven" that is refered to in the Lord's Prayer?
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


I am not saying the whole of New Jerusalem is the people. I submit that Christ and the church are the temple and the temple is in New Jerusalem. To say other wise would be to discount the words if Ezekiel, Christ, Paul, Peter, Etc.

In Luke the Kingdom of God is where God resides inside his temple. Just like home is where your family is. Otherwise it is just a house and not a home.

We are the living tents/temples/tabernacles where God will dwell.


Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Mat 23:21 "He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.

Joh 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Act 17:24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
 Quoting: Achduke7


So...when Father God spoke at Jesus' Baptism and the Transfiguration...He was speaking from "inside" the Apostles?

NOPE.

I suggest we continue the conversation over here.

Thread: Bible Study - The Kingdom of God / The Kingdom of Heaven
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/14/2020 01:29 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
...


Mansions are NOT planets.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Says who? And by what authority do you speak?
 Quoting: B4Birth


The word John used for mansion is the same word he used for abode in John 14:23 in the original Greek.

I submit these mansions or abodes are our new bodies/temples where God and Christ will be one with us.

That is the later context in John 24.


Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

 Quoting: Achduke7


Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place? At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS. In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.
 Quoting: B4Birth


There is no scripture in the bible of God or Christ taking us to other planets. This is just conjecture on your part. It does say that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will tabernacle with his people. We are the tabernacles of God. Read Paul, Ezekiel, Christ, etc.

One day we will all celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles together.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 06/14/2020 01:32 PM
Achduke
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 01:33 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place?

At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS.

In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.
 Quoting: B4Birth


THERE"S your problem.

There is NOT a "pre-trib" rapture.

1 hour 54 minutes


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I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
B4Birth

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06/14/2020 03:05 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 Quoting: B4Birth


GNOSTIC GNONSENSE
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

So if you do not believe the Bible, why are you even discussing it? This is what nonsense is. You proclaim nonsense and yet call yourself "servant of the LORD" and do not believe what the Bible says. Do you even know "the LORD", or "the Lord GOD" and why it is spelled both ways in the Bible? What is the difference between the two?
 Quoting: B4Birth


You're mistaken. I fully BELIEVE what the Bible says.
I DON'T believe oddball interpretations of things said.

The supposition of "within you" would mean that when a person dies, their soul goes "inside" themselves. This is blatantly WRONG.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

I did not ask you about the supposition of "within you". I quoted that Jesus said:

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That verse needs no interpretation. Jesus simply just meant what He said and you called it Nonsense. Are you calling Jesus a liar. You can't call Jesus a liar and then say you "full BELIEVE what the Bible says". You were not debating my words or even any interpretation that I offered. Then you implied that I offered an interpretation which you call "oddball interpretations". Where is the interpretation that you are referring to?



Folks like you take a single verse about a topic like "the kingdom of God" and proclaim that it's the "be all / end all" of the subject. It isn't.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

What are you talking about and what is your subject matter? What are you addressing? You just injected some thought out of nowhere. And I don't even know what that thought is.

The kingdom of God is the same as the kingdom of heaven.
I suggest that you go and read ALL the passages that use the phrases.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


I would love to discuss that with you some day. But right now I am dealing with pre-trib rapture and the MANSION I am going to be taken to called the New Jerusalem. Why are you switching topics in the middle?

FROM EARLIER POST

I do not know much about Urantia because I am a Christian. I have heard of it but I only know the Bible. the Bible says this:

John 14:2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Mansions are NOT planets.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Says who? And by what authority do you speak?

The authority of scripture dictates such.

Where does scripture say that mansions are planets?

It doesn't.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


And where is that authority of scripture that dictates such? _________ I'll wait. Where does scripture say that mansions are NOT planets?

New Jerusalem is 1500 miles square.

LOT'S of room for MANSIONS.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Hmm 1500 MILES SQ..... sounds like a nice little planet to me. When this comes down from the heavens I can see it being merged with the New Earth. And is this New Jerusalem you are speaking of located in the heavens? Is it just dangling in the air? Or does it have a firmament around it? Does it have trees and vegetation? Are there animals there? Is it in the heavens or the HEAVEN OF HEAVENS? Is this city just tumbling through space? Because we are going to be taken there to live after the pre-trib rapture.
B4Birth

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06/14/2020 03:19 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
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Says who? And by what authority do you speak?
 Quoting: B4Birth


The word John used for mansion is the same word he used for abode in John 14:23 in the original Greek.

I submit these mansions or abodes are our new bodies/temples where God and Christ will be one with us.

That is the later context in John 24.


Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

 Quoting: Achduke7


Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place? At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS. In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.
 Quoting: B4Birth


There is no scripture in the bible of God or Christ taking us to other planets. This is just conjecture on your part. It does say that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will tabernacle with his people. We are the tabernacles of God. Read Paul, Ezekiel, Christ, etc.

One day we will all celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles together.
 Quoting: Achduke7

Not other planets, but just to ONE planet (one place) which will be our temporary new home after the pre-trib rapture.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I am curious, what do you think this PLACE is where we will be taken? And where do you think it is. You say the New Jerusalem will come down. Question: COME DOWN FROM WHERE?
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/14/2020 03:56 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
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The word John used for mansion is the same word he used for abode in John 14:23 in the original Greek.

I submit these mansions or abodes are our new bodies/temples where God and Christ will be one with us.

That is the later context in John 24.


Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

 Quoting: Achduke7


Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place? At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS. In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.
 Quoting: B4Birth


There is no scripture in the bible of God or Christ taking us to other planets. This is just conjecture on your part. It does say that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will tabernacle with his people. We are the tabernacles of God. Read Paul, Ezekiel, Christ, etc.

One day we will all celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles together.
 Quoting: Achduke7

Not other planets, but just to ONE planet (one place) which will be our temporary new home after the pre-trib rapture.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I am curious, what do you think this PLACE is where we will be taken? And where do you think it is. You say the New Jerusalem will come down. Question: COME DOWN FROM WHERE?
 Quoting: B4Birth


Come down from heaven.

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Achduke
B4Birth

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Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place? At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS. In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.
 Quoting: B4Birth


There is no scripture in the bible of God or Christ taking us to other planets. This is just conjecture on your part. It does say that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will tabernacle with his people. We are the tabernacles of God. Read Paul, Ezekiel, Christ, etc.

One day we will all celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles together.
 Quoting: Achduke7

Not other planets, but just to ONE planet (one place) which will be our temporary new home after the pre-trib rapture.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I am curious, what do you think this PLACE is where we will be taken? And where do you think it is. You say the New Jerusalem will come down. Question: COME DOWN FROM WHERE?
 Quoting: B4Birth


Come down from heaven.

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 Quoting: Achduke7


Are the planets in heaven?
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/14/2020 05:09 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
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There is no scripture in the bible of God or Christ taking us to other planets. This is just conjecture on your part. It does say that New Jerusalem will come down to earth and God will tabernacle with his people. We are the tabernacles of God. Read Paul, Ezekiel, Christ, etc.

One day we will all celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles together.
 Quoting: Achduke7

Not other planets, but just to ONE planet (one place) which will be our temporary new home after the pre-trib rapture.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I am curious, what do you think this PLACE is where we will be taken? And where do you think it is. You say the New Jerusalem will come down. Question: COME DOWN FROM WHERE?
 Quoting: B4Birth


Come down from heaven.

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 Quoting: Achduke7


Are the planets in heaven?
 Quoting: B4Birth


There certainly are but there still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
Achduke
B4Birth

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Not other planets, but just to ONE planet (one place) which will be our temporary new home after the pre-trib rapture.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I am curious, what do you think this PLACE is where we will be taken? And where do you think it is. You say the New Jerusalem will come down. Question: COME DOWN FROM WHERE?
 Quoting: B4Birth


Come down from heaven.

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 Quoting: Achduke7


Are the planets in heaven?
 Quoting: B4Birth


There certainly are but there still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
 Quoting: Achduke7


What is the name of the place they were taken to?
Also is there any scriptural proof that we are NOT taken to another planet?

Last Edited by B4Birth on 06/14/2020 06:34 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
New Jerusalem is 1500 miles square.

LOT'S of room for MANSIONS.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Hmm 1500 MILES SQ..... sounds like a nice little planet to me. When this comes down from the heavens I can see it being merged with the New Earth. And is this New Jerusalem you are speaking of located in the heavens? Is it just dangling in the air? Or does it have a firmament around it? Does it have trees and vegetation? Are there animals there? Is it in the heavens or the HEAVEN OF HEAVENS? Is this city just tumbling through space? Because we are going to be taken there to live after the pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: B4Birth


Bullshit. You have NO scriptural PROOF.

1. So The Father's throne and the seraphim are "inside of us"?

2. Is a new heaven going to happen "INSIDE US" when Christ returns?

3. Is a new earth going to be formed INSIDE US?

4. So the "New Jerusalem" descends "into us" - and NOT "down to earth"?

5. So...when we die we go "into our own selves"?????

6. So Ezekial was taken "inside himself" instead of heaven ABOVE?

7. So the throne and seraphims that Isaiah saw in Chapter 9 were "inside himself"?

8. So the throne and other things John described in Revelation were "inside himself"?

9. How about Enoch? Was everything he described actually "inside himself"?

10. So when God TOOK Enoch - He took him to "inside himself"?

11. So the "paradise" that Paul was taken "UP" to was "inside Himself"?

12. Jesus ASCENDED "into people" - NOT into heaven above???

13. So "the Father's house" and the "many mansions" that Jesus talks about - are ALL inside of US - where YOU say the kingdom of God exists?

14. So the Father SENT Jesus from "inside ourselves"?

15. So the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit from "inside ourselves"?

16. So when Elijah was taken by the chariot, he was taken to "inside himself"?

17. ALL the souls under the alter in Revelation 6:9 are "inside us"???

18. So where is the "heaven" that is refered to in the Lord's Prayer?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You're mistaken. I fully BELIEVE what the Bible says.
I DON'T believe oddball interpretations of things said.

The supposition of "within you" would mean that when a person dies, their soul goes "inside" themselves. This is blatantly WRONG.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

I did not ask you about the supposition of "within you". I quoted that Jesus said:

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That verse needs no interpretation. Jesus simply just meant what He said and you called it Nonsense. Are you calling Jesus a liar. You can't call Jesus a liar and then say you "full BELIEVE what the Bible says". You were not debating my words or even any interpretation that I offered. Then you implied that I offered an interpretation which you call "oddball interpretations". Where is the interpretation that you are referring to?
 Quoting: B4Birth


So that ONE verse supercedes ALL the other verses about the kingdom of God / the kingdom of heaven?

You DO realize that Jesus was addressing the Pharisees at that point?

You CANNOT make doctrine based on ONE VERSE.

The phrase "kingdom of God" occurs 69 times in 68 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


------------------------------------------------
The word "kingdom" 127 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Out of those 127....


The phrase "kingdom of God" 54 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "my kingdom" - said by Jesus - 4 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

------------------------------------------

The word "heavens" occurs 133 times in 127 verses in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The word "heaven" occurs 582 times in 550 verses in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "kingdom of heaven" occurs 32 times in 31 verses in the KJV - ALL in Matthew.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD
B4Birth

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
New Jerusalem is 1500 miles square.

LOT'S of room for MANSIONS.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Hmm 1500 MILES SQ..... sounds like a nice little planet to me. When this comes down from the heavens I can see it being merged with the New Earth. And is this New Jerusalem you are speaking of located in the heavens? Is it just dangling in the air? Or does it have a firmament around it? Does it have trees and vegetation? Are there animals there? Is it in the heavens or the HEAVEN OF HEAVENS? Is this city just tumbling through space? Because we are going to be taken there to live after the pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: B4Birth


Bullshit. You have NO scriptural PROOF.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63319725


Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Now that I have given you the scripture, do you have any scriptural PROOF that what I said is not true?

1. So The Father's throne and the seraphim are "inside of us"?

2. Is a new heaven going to happen "INSIDE US" when Christ returns?

3. Is a new earth going to be formed INSIDE US?

4. So the "New Jerusalem" descends "into us" - and NOT "down to earth"?

5. So...when we die we go "into our own selves"?????

6. So Ezekial was taken "inside himself" instead of heaven ABOVE?

7. So the throne and seraphims that Isaiah saw in Chapter 9 were "inside himself"?

8. So the throne and other things John described in Revelation were "inside himself"?

9. How about Enoch? Was everything he described actually "inside himself"?

10. So when God TOOK Enoch - He took him to "inside himself"?

11. So the "paradise" that Paul was taken "UP" to was "inside Himself"?

12. Jesus ASCENDED "into people" - NOT into heaven above???

13. So "the Father's house" and the "many mansions" that Jesus talks about - are ALL inside of US - where YOU say the kingdom of God exists?

14. So the Father SENT Jesus from "inside ourselves"?

15. So the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit from "inside ourselves"?

16. So when Elijah was taken by the chariot, he was taken to "inside himself"?

17. ALL the souls under the alter in Revelation 6:9 are "inside us"???

18. So where is the "heaven" that is refered to in the Lord's Prayer?
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


So you don't have a clue about what this verse means?

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Since Jesus said it here is what I suggest you do:

Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

You have quite a long list there. I suggest you do it humbly.
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/14/2020 08:03 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
...


Come down from heaven.

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 Quoting: Achduke7


Are the planets in heaven?
 Quoting: B4Birth


There certainly are but there still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
 Quoting: Achduke7


What is the name of the place they were taken to?
Also is there any scriptural proof that we are NOT taken to another planet?
 Quoting: B4Birth


They are called clouds not a planet.


1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Achduke
B4Birth

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06/14/2020 08:04 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You're mistaken. I fully BELIEVE what the Bible says.
I DON'T believe oddball interpretations of things said.

The supposition of "within you" would mean that when a person dies, their soul goes "inside" themselves. This is blatantly WRONG.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

I did not ask you about the supposition of "within you". I quoted that Jesus said:

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That verse needs no interpretation. Jesus simply just meant what He said and you called it Nonsense. Are you calling Jesus a liar. You can't call Jesus a liar and then say you "full BELIEVE what the Bible says". You were not debating my words or even any interpretation that I offered. Then you implied that I offered an interpretation which you call "oddball interpretations". Where is the interpretation that you are referring to?
 Quoting: B4Birth


So that ONE verse supercedes ALL the other verses about the kingdom of God / the kingdom of heaven?

You DO realize that Jesus was addressing the Pharisees at that point?

You CANNOT make doctrine based on ONE VERSE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 63319725


I only quoted the verse. Your questions make no sense, since I am not the author of the verse. Ask Him. Also Jesus knew who He was addressing and I have not made any doctrine and neither am I trying to make any doctrine. Where did I make a doctrine? What is your point here. Why are you asking pointless questions?

The phrase "kingdom of God" occurs 69 times in 68 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


------------------------------------------------
The word "kingdom" 127 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

Out of those 127....


The phrase "kingdom of God" 54 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "my kingdom" - said by Jesus - 4 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

------------------------------------------

The word "heavens" occurs 133 times in 127 verses in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The word "heaven" occurs 582 times in 550 verses in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


The phrase "kingdom of heaven" occurs 32 times in 31 verses in the KJV - ALL in Matthew.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


And......... what are all these links suppose to mean? What doctrine are you trying to promote? Where are you going with all these links? What am I suppose to find out?.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 09:34 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Matt 24 is entirely to the priesthood... remember Pauls gospel of grace hadn't even been revealed to the world yet... Peter, rightly, was looking for those 7 years of tribulation and then return of Christ..., these are those events in Matt.

Paul was looking for that "blessed hope"... the rapture... this is what the "last days" for "the body of Christ" look like.. very different from Matt 24. and what Peter was looking for

2 Tim "This know also, that in the last days shall come perilous times. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, cursed speakers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, intemperate, fierce, no lovers at all of them which are good,"

No fire, brimstone, moon turning blood red... we're gone, raptured, before any of Matt 24...

rapture was one of the mysteries that was revealed to Paul... ALWAYS separate Paul from everyone else, "rightly divide the word of truth"... Paul had the revelations and mysteries, given only to him, from an ascended LORD ... GOD sent us Paul for a reason... law vs grace pastors vs priests
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


UTTER NONSENSE.

Scripture PROVES you WRONG.

You pre-tribbers aren't going ANYWHERE.

Jesus returns ONCE - AFTER Tribulation.

Tribulation is NOT wrath.

14 minutes


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 09:52 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
And......... what are all these links suppose to mean? What doctrine are you trying to promote? Where are you going with all these links? What am I suppose to find out?.
 Quoting: B4Birth


Thread: Bible Study - The Kingdom of God / The Kingdom of Heaven
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 09:54 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
So you don't have a clue about what this verse means?

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Since Jesus said it here is what I suggest you do:

Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

You have quite a long list there. I suggest you do it humbly.
 Quoting: B4Birth


You're the one without a clue.

Thread: Bible Study - The Kingdom of God / The Kingdom of Heaven
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/14/2020 10:40 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There certainly are but there still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
 Quoting: Achduke7


What is the name of the place they were taken to?
Also is there any scriptural proof that we are NOT taken to another planet?
 Quoting: B4Birth


There still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2020 11:19 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There is no 7 year Tribulation Period found in Scripture.

All that is found is Daniel's 70 week and also a "time of Great Tribulation. The 70 week prophecy is found in the Old Testament in the book of Daniel. The "time of great tribulation" was described by Christ in the Gospels.

The 70 weeks prophecy was given by God to Daniel and applies to his people Israel.

At the midpoint......the anti-Christ will stop the daily sacrifice.......and this will set off the 5th Seal of Revelation. The Anti-Christ will first try to kill off all of Israel. But God will preserve a remnant in the wilderness. Satan will then be enraged and go after the offspring......those who have been grafted into the natural branch......namely the Gentile Christians.

Satan's wrath will last approx. two years. Then the whole world will go dark for an unspecified period of time (6th Seal).

The the rapture will take place......because God has not appointed us for wrath......namely His Wrath.

God's wrath (7th Seal) will then take place upon the world and last approx. 1.5 years.

During this time Christians will be with Christ in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.......and then return on white horses with Him for the final battle.

Then Christ's 1,000 year reign will begin here on earth.

After than God will burn up the world and create a new world. The heavenly city of Jerusalem will then descend upon Earth. It will be approx. 1200 miles in width, length, and height.

This city will be made of gold and Christ's glory will illuminate it. All Christians will be considered co-heirs with Christ and reign as priests.....and also likely have many other duties.
Anonymous Coward
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06/14/2020 11:44 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I feel sad for the many Christians who believe in the Pre-Trib rapture......because they will likely be caught off guard.....imprisoned.....and then martyred. See the 5th Seal.....cry of the martyrs.

God does however offer an alternative......but it will require a great step of faith.......leaving everything behind......and fleeing to the wilderness.......allowing Him to take care of you.

See Ps 27:5.........Ps 31:20.......and Psalm 91.
B4Birth

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06/15/2020 11:51 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
And......... what are all these links suppose to mean? What doctrine are you trying to promote? Where are you going with all these links? What am I suppose to find out?.
 Quoting: B4Birth


Thread: Bible Study - The Kingdom of God / The Kingdom of Heaven
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


And when did I request a Bible study or even a thread about Bible study? I study my Bible with my BIBLE in front; not a thread. I don't study crap on the internet. I already know every necessary about the rapture. Got it from the Bible and the Holy Ghost.
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2020 11:57 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I feel sad for the many Christians who believe in the Pre-Trib rapture......because they will likely be caught off guard.....imprisoned.....and then martyred.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71635907

Why do you think that?

Why do you think you are better than them?
B4Birth

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06/15/2020 12:01 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Matt 24 is entirely to the priesthood... remember Pauls gospel of grace hadn't even been revealed to the world yet... Peter, rightly, was looking for those 7 years of tribulation and then return of Christ..., these are those events in Matt.

Paul was looking for that "blessed hope"... the rapture... this is what the "last days" for "the body of Christ" look like.. very different from Matt 24. and what Peter was looking for

2 Tim "This know also, that in the last days shall come perilous times. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, cursed speakers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, intemperate, fierce, no lovers at all of them which are good,"

No fire, brimstone, moon turning blood red... we're gone, raptured, before any of Matt 24...

rapture was one of the mysteries that was revealed to Paul... ALWAYS separate Paul from everyone else, "rightly divide the word of truth"... Paul had the revelations and mysteries, given only to him, from an ascended LORD ... GOD sent us Paul for a reason... law vs grace pastors vs priests
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


UTTER NONSENSE.

Scripture PROVES you WRONG.

You pre-tribbers aren't going ANYWHERE.

Jesus returns ONCE - AFTER Tribulation.

Tribulation is NOT wrath.

14 minutes


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]



 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

You act like an antichrist. Because you attack Christ and His children. That is what an antichrist is and there are many of them.

You attack a person for presenting scripture. You call it UTTER NONSENSE, state the scripture PROVES them WRONG and then PRESENT NO SCRIPTURE!

A YOUTUBE VIDEO IS NOT THE BIBLE!

You do not present a Christian spirit; you present an antichrist spirit.

Last Edited by B4Birth on 06/15/2020 12:10 PM
B4Birth

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06/15/2020 12:09 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There certainly are but there still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
 Quoting: Achduke7


What is the name of the place they were taken to?
Also is there any scriptural proof that we are NOT taken to another planet?
 Quoting: B4Birth


There still is no scriptural proof that we are taken to another planet.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Again I will present scripture:

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

You are either an ANTICHRIST or you have a serious reading comprehension problem. The scripture is plain. Sadly most Christians overlook it and it is NOT traditionally taught. I challenge every person to use reading comprehension skills.
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2020 12:16 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Another planet is your own unnecessary nonsense imposed upon Scripture but not taught by it.
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2020 12:18 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
[link to www.blbclassic.org]

a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode

to make an (one's) abode

metaph. of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believers

[link to www.blbclassic.org]
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2020 12:20 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Why hold to, fight about and insist upon something we do not know, because we cannot know, because we were not told, because God determined we had no need to know?
Anonymous Coward
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06/15/2020 12:21 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Believe Jesus. Watch for Jesus. Hope for Jesus. Preach Jesus.
B4Birth

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06/15/2020 12:58 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There is no 7 year Tribulation Period found in Scripture.

All that is found is Daniel's 70 week and also a "time of Great Tribulation. The 70 week prophecy is found in the Old Testament in the book of Daniel. The "time of great tribulation" was described by Christ in the Gospels.

The 70 weeks prophecy was given by God to Daniel and applies to his people Israel.

At the midpoint......the anti-Christ will stop the daily sacrifice.......and this will set off the 5th Seal of Revelation. The Anti-Christ will first try to kill off all of Israel. But God will preserve a remnant in the wilderness. Satan will then be enraged and go after the offspring......those who have been grafted into the natural branch......namely the Gentile Christians.

Satan's wrath will last approx. two years. Then the whole world will go dark for an unspecified period of time (6th Seal).

The the rapture will take place......because God has not appointed us for wrath......namely His Wrath.

God's wrath (7th Seal) will then take place upon the world and last approx. 1.5 years.

During this time Christians will be with Christ in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.......and then return on white horses with Him for the final battle.

Then Christ's 1,000 year reign will begin here on earth.

After than God will burn up the world and create a new world. The heavenly city of Jerusalem will then descend upon Earth. It will be approx. 1200 miles in width, length, and height.

This city will be made of gold and Christ's glory will illuminate it. All Christians will be considered co-heirs with Christ and reign as priests.....and also likely have many other duties.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71635907


Your misunderstanding of scripture has caused you to be steered improperly. You also are not properly using the rules of punctuation for the English language while you are reading.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Take note that the 70 weeks include the anointing of the most Holy; which takes place in the 70th week. Everything else happens all the way up to the 69th week, which is where we are right now; but in the MIDDLE of it.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Seven plus sixty-two is equal to 69. It tells us that Jesus will be here in the 69th week. He starts His earthly preaching ministry at the beginning of the 69th week. That preaching was planned to go for the full week (7 years or 84 months).

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After 62 weeks (which is the 69th week when you add the first seven weeks) Jesus is cut off; killed in the MIDDLE of the 69th week. Now this where the problem comes in for the people who skipped the English class for PUNCTUATION.

You see there is a semi-colon placed just before "and the people of the prince that shall come". It is used for momentary digression to talk about this prince (beast) that was coming. This normal in writings but most people forget that once the period (.) is placed at the END of the sentence, you go back to the ORIGINAL subject which was the PRINCE (JESUS).

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So in verse 27 we are back to talking about Jesus. Jesus confirms the covenant with many for one week which is the 69th week, but He did not complete or finish the week because He was crucified in the MIDDLE of the 69th week. By being crucified He became the SACRIFICIAL LAMB caused the "SACRIFICE AND OBLATION TO CEASE". Another lamb was no longer necessary. Jesus went through much tribulation during that time and it represented the start of THE TRIBULATION of 7 years but He only fulfilled 3.5 years of it and the other 3.5 years are waiting to become completed.

Now the final 3.5 years cannot take place until three events are completed:

1. Church age (2000 years)
2. Rapture (2 parts [THE FIRST SHALL BE LAST AND THE LAST FIRST])
3. Millennial Reign (after Jesus takes us to the place prepared for us)

Meanwhile while we are at the special prepared place, sinners will still be here with the beast for a thousand years and Satan will be bound but not the Beast. At the end of the thousand years Satan will be unbound and there will be the last 3.5 years of the covenant Jesus confirmed in Daniel. That period is called the GREAT TRIBULATION period and will END the 69th week.

THE CORONATION WILL START THE 70TH WEEK.

Last Edited by B4Birth on 06/15/2020 04:54 PM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.

And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.



Daniel 9:24-27





GLP