Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

I am prewrath at the 6th seal which mirrors Matthew 24 and the 2 witnesses being raptured. I think there is only one rapture.

Post your video on the other rapture thread. There are some current ones running now.

I also dislike when videos are quoted they clog up a whole thread.

I will make you a deal. If you register I will allow your video but if anyone quotes the video then I will deleted the quoted post only but I want to know who is posting them and I will not waste my time watching them.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 05/28/2020 08:44 PM

This appears to me to be an actual taking, but it is momentary. This group meets Christ in the air and immediately returns with him to the earth to cleanse it.



Yes, but not taken to heaven, rather, given great wings of an eagle to carry her to her place in the wilderness



Here is Isaiah 60:1-3
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

So... I'm not following the wheat harvest trail here??

Not denying that God has revealed this to you, but, find parts of the bible to back or present the idea. I think you are missing the presentation of the actual bible, which is a problem.



Um, I'm not so sure. Please present just a couple of them.



Well, the one thing I do agree with you on, is that there is a select group that is given the opportunity to stand apart in the time of tribulation.



Yes

Hi Watcher what scripture do you think best supports a pretrib rapture but also could not be used to support posttrib rapture?

How can there be only one Rapture when the two witness's in Revelation 11:12 get Raptured. There is obviously more then one Rapture, just as there were Raptures in the old testament i.e. Enoch and Elijah.

It is my belief there is only one rapture/1st resurrection. The word harpazo is used many times in the new testament but during the 1st resurrection it only happens once. The gathering/rapture happens concurrently with the 2 witnesses. It is at the same time at the 6th seal. 2Thess 2 says this gathering will be after the falling away and the man of sin revealed. Paul is talking to the Thessalonians in 2Thess. He calls the Thessalonians brethen in Christ. Now that they are gone they are dead in Christ and will be the first to be caught up. The dead first and then the living.

NOPE.

A few verses earlier we're told to "look up". WHY?
For the simple FACT that Believers WILL be around when Jesus RETURNS aka the Second Coming.

Luke 21

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

------------
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

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Luke 21:36 "stand before the Son of Man".

WHEN does that happen?

The White Throne Judgement

--------------------------------

...some critical questions for you.

1. IF a rapture takes away all the Believer in Christ - HOW is it that there are "beheaded saints of the Great Tribulation"? (Revelation 20:4)

2. Why is the gospel being preached if there are no Believers left to witness to last minute new believers? (Revelation 14:6)

3. To WHOM are the "two witnesses" preaching and prophecying to? (Revelation 11)

Just exactly WHO....or WHAT...is "the bride"?

A LOT of people OVERLOOK what is stated in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
---------------
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

According to THAT, the BRIDE is New Jerusalem.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 05/28/2020 10:00 PM

Hi Servant,

What or who is New Jerusalem? I submit that there is no physical temple in New Jerusalem. The temple will be Christ the Cornerstone and the rest of the stones will be as Peter and Paul say living stones. It is my belief the believers or at least a remnant of believers like the 144K will be the temple as in our body is the temple of God who will be present in us in New Jerusalem.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

2 Corintians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

This is very interesting. Make a list with bible quotes, especially including the location to which each person / group was taken.



Yes, indeed. There is only one time when a particular group of believers are taken up into the sky to meet Christ.



Note also that it takes SOME TIME for the visible redemption to draw nigh.



Would you present how you derive this? I am curious.



I agree. Its a good question. My understanding is that the 10 virgins are split into two groups. The first which is taken to a place on earth where she is nourished and kept apart from the tribulation, a la Hebrews in Goshen.

2. Why is the gospel being preached if there are no Believers left to witness to last minute new believers? (Revelation 14:6)

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Indeed, my understanding is that these are the 144k and as OP has mentioned, these seem to be a different metaphor for the 2 witnesses.



Apparently not a lot of preaching, mostly prophesying, fire calling, rain withholding, etc. Didn't seem to me that Elijah did a lot of preaching in his day. Just sayin.

Indeed. Yes, believers that maintain their commitment / belief are the third temple, which I believe is the bride.

Scripture seems "cut and dried" to me.

NEW heaven
NEW earth
NEW Jerusalem

THIS...

Revelation 21

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Yes, and look at all the texts posted by the OP as well, you will see that the picture in the Revelation is metaphoric, just as many of Jesus' descriptions were.

Okay... I don't see how John 5:22 demonstrates that Luke 21:36 is referring to Revelation 20:11. Not that it doesn't, and I actually think Luke 21:36 "stand before the Son of Man" is the same idea in essence, but not actually that particular event of Rev 20:11 "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it..."

It's the ONLY time we're REQUIRED to stand before Jesus.

For JUDGEMENT.

Sorry - I don't agree with the "metaphoric" angle.

It's nothing more than theory.

I'm sticking with the literal sense until seeing differently.

Okay, I see that you (like most) see Rev 20:11 as referring to all humans. This may be, I am not sure. Thus my question.

Well, just take a few seconds and address the OP's texts on the same subject.

All you have to do is to look at the very next verse.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand
before God; and the books were opened: and another book was
opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged
out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works.




I have no need to address what the OP says about anything "metaphoric", nor do I have any desire to try to figure out ALL the details of the End Times. I trust Father God and His Son fully, and accept that the Father's Will is to be done.

Yeah... I see it, believe it or not, I read it all. I also read all that you posted and all that the OP posted, etc. Unlike you, I paid attention to it all.

You still did not show how John 5:22 applied, and my mind is still not made up. The verse you now point to says, "the dead" will stand before Christ at this juncture. I think that even you would agree that Enoch is not dead at this point. So... back to my original question.



Look, I am not busting your chops here, I am just saying that the OP referred directly to Jesus and Paul and Peter referring to the third temple as "living stones" which are humans. That is direct analogy. In some places Jesus calls his words "seed" in other places the prophets call national entities "beasts", etc. Metaphor, analogy, parable, call it what you will.

All I am asking is, take the same time I and the OP gave you, and look at the other texts posted in this thread.

Not that it matters, and not that you will... heh. Anyway

Why are you posting this crap? You do know that we are not trying to predict the rapture in this thread? It is only for a pretrib rapture discussion and defense of the pretrib rapture. I do not believe in a pretrib rapture but I would like to know the foundation, verses and scripture behind the pretrib rapture. I have yet to hear anything really that could be used in a pretrib rapture only.

P.S. I am deleting your post. Keep the thread mostly on topic.

There are none in defense of pre tib.

Only scripture twisting and outright ignoring.

But most rapture tards are tickled by the thought of everyone burning and screaming while they get whisked away and suffer NOTHING.

Lukewarm self rightous arrogant assholes for the most part.

Ive never met a humble non self rightous arrogant raptyre tard.

Ever.

And ive been around a very very long time.

Its all about greed really.

They made a fotune on their lied.

Remember "88 reasons why Jesus will return by 1988"?

No..didnt think so.

Remember all the millions of books about the blood moons and rapture...and how they didnt even apolavise for being 100% wrong again when it failed?

No?

Wow..short memory.

But they count on short memories to sell the next load of COMPLETE BULLSHIT to the arrogant cowardly sheep.

Just keep selling them what they WANT TO HEAR...and they will keep shelling out the dollars.

Satanic assholes all of em.

Evil lyinv scripture twisting scum of theowest sort.

They make the jehovahs withesses look holy by fail comparison.

All I can say is that Luke 21:36 is AFTER ALL the events of the tribulation and Christ's Second Coming.

The ONLY TIME the Bible says we are to "officially stand" before the "Son of Man" is for final judgement.

Seems simple to me.

Most theology is along those lines: men who don't pay enough attention saying things that God didn't for fun and profit.

Thanks, I guess.

Is Luke 21:36 the best defense for a pretrib rapture? Only one scripture?

Jesus said the time of his appearance in the clouds was unknowable and yet imminent.
If the rapture only happens after certain events transpire, you make Jesus a liar.

Not true. Jesus said watch. We can know the season just not the day and hour.

The same thing as now since true Christians are the 144,000.