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Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

 
Anonymous Coward
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06/11/2020 09:04 PM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You can hope for Jesus them, if you want, if you are so lucky...
I will continue to hope for Him at any moment now.
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/11/2020 10:03 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
The tribulation happens before God's wrath.

 Quoting: Achduke7


Thus sayeth you.

Some of us believe that the Tribulation is seven years,

and that a very specific portion of that time,

the last 3 1/2 years of that 7 years,

is that very specific 3 1/2 years Wrath of God.

WE DISAGREE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79021387


That is based on the rapture doctrine. Daniel says time, times and a half or 3.5 years and revelation says the same.
Achduke
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/11/2020 10:45 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Those are all great scriptures but they point to God's wrath we escape.

 Quoting: Achduke7


All those verses about the big surprise that no one knows when
except that you know exactly when it is and will be?

Dismiss them all out of hand, just like that! Poof!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79021387


It does not say we would not know when. It says we will know the season. Just not the day or hour.
Achduke
Achduke7  (OP)

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06/11/2020 10:48 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
How can it be any sudden unexpected seizing away

if you are counting down the 1260 days?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79021387


What day does the 1260 start exactly? Also we will not know the day of wrath. That is not the tribulation. Does God's wrath start exactly when the tribulation is over?
Achduke
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/11/2020 11:51 PM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Read Matthew 24 it even clearly states "after". You cannot get before out of after.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 69846886


The "tares" get taken first.

Matthew 13:37-43

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



Matthew 24 states the SAME thing using the times of Noah as the example.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:01 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
The reasoning is because the pretribbers say they go before the tribulation but the elect leave after the tribulation.

Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.


Mat 24:31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 Quoting: Achduke7


You don't understand why we believe what we believe but simply stubbornly repeatedly insist that we are wrong and you are right.

We disagree. You might be wrong. We will see.

I'm good either way because I believe in nothing but Him.

and you cannot change that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79017797


Paul says "we who are ALIVE AND REMAIN".

Remain from WHAT? The Tribulation.

NOT ONE SINGLE WRITER says that we "miss tribulation".
-----------------------------
Compare what Paul says to what Jesus says in these passages.

See how these are ALL the same event.

1 Thessalonians 4


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



1. Notice that Verses 16 & 17 are pretty much EXACTLY what Jesus says in the Gospel descriptions.


Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


2. Then notice how Paul's verses 15 & 17 match....


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:02 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There is a pre-tribulation rapture..the "first-fruits", the man child, the 5 wise (virgins) , two grinding at the mill, both living/dead over-comers ......all prove it; these will enter the wedding feast of the lamb. The majority or "harvest" will have to go through the great tribulation.During the "last week", there is still the opportunity to enter the kingdom by being among those believers who are martyed for bearing his testimony in the great tribulation....

All believers have all been called but few will chosen to enter. The kingdom is reward for the bride of Christ.

Missing out is not loss of salvation. Jus loss of reward.

What happens to those believers who don’t enter......temporary cctv room for 1000 years..outer darkness./..

After 1000 years all believes as living stones will inherit/become the New Jerusalem.

Eph 2:20-22/ Rev 20,21,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76863401


NOPE.

The "tares" get taken first.

Matthew 13:37-43

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.



Matthew 24 states the SAME thing using the times of Noah as the example.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

------------------------------------------------------

Compare what Paul says to what Jesus says in these passages.

See how these are ALL the same event.

1 Thessalonians 4


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



1. Notice that Verses 16 & 17 are pretty much EXACTLY what Jesus says in the Gospel descriptions.


Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


2. Then notice how Paul's verses 15 & 17 match....


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/12/2020 12:03 AM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:11 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of Man.


Luke 21:35,36
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79021387


Luke 21:36 is taken out of context to support the "rapture".

A few verses earlier we're told to "look up". WHY?
For the simple FACT that Believers WILL be around when Jesus RETURNS aka the Second Coming.

Luke 21

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


------------
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

---------------------------------
Luke 21:36 "stand before the Son of Man".

WHEN does that happen?
The White Throne Judgement
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:13 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Those are all great scriptures but they point to God's wrath we escape.

 Quoting: Achduke7


All those verses about the big surprise that no one knows when
except that you know exactly when it is and will be?

Dismiss them all out of hand, just like that! Poof!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79021387


1. Jesus nor anyone else said that Believers will miss Tribulation. Luke 21:36 is taken out of context for the "rapture".

2. Both Peter and John wrote epistles AFTER Paul wrote his. A "rapture" - IF it had been revealed to Paul - would have been mentioned by them. Yet they say NOTHING about "it".

3. There's no mention of a "rapture" in the Revelation "sequence of events". The verse to the church in Philadelphia is doesn't mean a "rapture" of all Believers before Tribulation. An event that "stupendous" would SURELY have been mentioned by Jesus - to John.

4. The idea of a "rapture" being "hidden" in the scriptures for 1800+ years is therefore erroneous. It's a deception to "divide" the body of Christ. "Paul ONLY for gentiles" divides the body of Christ.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/12/2020 12:26 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
It is fascinating how very antagonistic so many are to the Rapture. It really, really bothers some people more than almost anything else.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:37 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
It is fascinating how very antagonistic so many are to the Rapture. It really, really bothers some people more than almost anything else.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


It's all about the truth.

Wanna see how easy it is to create false doctrine?

Thread: False Doctrines - The Danger of "Single Verse Doctrinal Theology" - Biblical Discernment - Peter is Satan / the Serpent?
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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06/12/2020 12:40 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There's no mention of a "rapture" in the Revelation "sequence of events".
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

After the letters to the churches, the Church is not present in Revelation.

The idea of a "rapture" being "hidden" in the scriptures for 1800+ years is therefore erroneous. It's a deception to "divide" the body of Christ.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

The same verses have always been there, and Scripture says that knowledge will increase as the time grows near,
AND you have seen Ephraem the Syrian, among other early believers mentioned here many times, showing that some few have always believed the idea,
but you repeatedly just dismiss and ignore it and keep repeating the same lies anyway,just like you absolutly will continue to do.
It says everything about your heart.
It's "deception" because you don't believe it, thus sayeth you, and that settles it.
I disagree with you. I believe Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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06/12/2020 12:42 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
It's all about the truth.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Absolutely.
And it is possible that you can be wrong
and you can't see it because He hasn't chosen you to see it
because that is your heart.
Jesus Christ does not need your permission or approval.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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06/12/2020 12:47 AM

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There's no mention of a "rapture" in the Revelation "sequence of events".
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

After the letters to the churches, the Church is not present in Revelation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


And where in Revelation does it state that those letters are to churches in the "End Times"? Just because it's in that specific book?

NONSENSE

If you are like a good majority of folks who have read Revelation, you probably struggle to understand the meaning of the "Seven Churches" and how it would relate to end times, especially considering that those churches have basically vanished from the world.

But if you take the "traits" that are used to describe those 7 Churches, and apply them to modern day religions / denominations, you may be able to see how those things are relevant to specific groups.

Steven M Collins does just that, and you can download a 57 page PDF that explains his analysis of this.

On this webpage, scroll down and look at the right column for a tab "The Seven Churches of Revelation".

[link to www.stevenmcollins.com]

At the bottom of the drop-down menu is an option to download the PDF.

The idea of a "rapture" being "hidden" in the scriptures for 1800+ years is therefore erroneous. It's a deception to "divide" the body of Christ.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

The same verses have always been there, and Scripture says that knowledge will increase as the time grows near,
AND you have seen Ephraem the Syrian, among other early believers mentioned here many times, showing that some few have always believed the idea,
but you repeatedly just dismiss and ignore it and keep repeating the same lies anyway,just like you absolutly will continue to do.
It says everything about your heart.
It's "deception" because you don't believe it, thus sayeth you, and that settles it.
I disagree with you. I believe Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


LOOK at the SCRIPTURAL evidence for a "rapture".

There is NONE.

It's ALL taken OUT of CONTEXT.

See the posts I made above comparing scripture.

IF you believe Jesus then you will KNOW that He says "you WILL see Tribulation".
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
...
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Do you demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribualtion Rapture by Jesus Christ to be True?
Servant-of-the-LORD

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
It's all about the truth.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Absolutely.
And it is possible that you can be wrong
and you can't see it because He hasn't chosen you to see it because that is your heart.
Jesus Christ does not need your permission or approval.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


You can't argue against the scriptural comparisons so you

are reduced to questioning my heart.

Cheapshot attacks will get you no rewards in heaven.

Scripture IS NOT wrong.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You can't argue against the scriptural comparisons so you

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Of course I can and have a thousand times.

You refuse every time.

So what?

I believe Jesus Christ and He does not to check with you.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I believe Jesus Christ and He does not need to check with you.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111
Servant-of-the-LORD

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...
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Do you demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribualtion Rapture by Jesus Christ to be True?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


You can do what you want.

There is NO pre-trib rapture.

Jesus returns ONCE - the Second Coming.

READ the SCRIPTURES INSTEAD of believing what some theologian has taught.

another do
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

Do you demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture by Jesus Christ to be True?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111
Servant-of-the-LORD

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You can't argue against the scriptural comparisons so you

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Of course I can and have a thousand times.

You refuse every time.

So what?

I believe Jesus Christ and He does not to check with you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


No you haven't.

You have no argument FOR a pre-trib rapture.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

Do you demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture by Jesus Christ to be True?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111


Is that you shoeshy?

Are you going to post 100 single sentence post to derail the topic thread again?
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
There is NO pre-trib rapture.

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


You are a sociopath. You cannot even entertain the notion of the cognotive dissonance in your skull to even acknowledge the possibility that you do not have perfect knowledge of all things and might actually be incorrect in your understanding.

I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture to be True

and many things about your belligerent supposed faith to be False.

Jesus Christ decides.
Anonymous Coward
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06/12/2020 12:57 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I am irrelevant, just like you.
I believe. You attack that belief.
One of us is clearly wrong.
I accept the Judgment of Jesus Christ.
Do you?


You will not answer this either again....because you are all about the truth you say...
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Who cares?

I am irrelevant.

I am nobody but a Believer in Jesus Christ.


Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
You have no argument FOR a pre-trib rapture.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


Says you, horse.

And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts."

Revelation 21:6
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I can't wait until you and I stand before Him.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
Do you demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribualtion Rapture by Jesus Christ to be True?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79022111

You can do what you want.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

[link to youtu.be (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
.


bump
Anonymous Coward
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06/12/2020 01:23 AM
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Re: Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved
I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture to be the Truth of Jesus Christ

and you cannot demand that I not believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture to be the Truth of Jesus Christ

or that I must believe what you say to believe in Jesus Christ

when I am more than quite capable of knowing and believing in Jesus Christ according to my understanding of God's Word The Bible as He has led me so far

Yeah, you got that right.





GLP