Defending the Pre-trib rapture **** New and Improved

Where did you get that nonsense from?

That's NOT what Revelation states.

Who started that urantian junk? I may not agree with baloney on the rapture but baloney is sure relentless in cracking down on urantians.

The Wiki

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

This is correct right after Armageddon to take the Juzs who have repented, This is about two weeks after the Gentiles were secretly removed after the USA is destroyed (Babylon) along with 1.8 Billion children 10 years old and under. We reign with Him there at that Mansion for 1000 years. We come back with Him at the end after the final 42 months of GREAT TRIBULATIONS. It is then that he destroy what has been left and formed during those 1000 years. This will include CLONES, ROBOTS, ANDROIDS. Not many humans with souls will be on the planet at this time. Most of the real humans will be what is left of the remnant of. the 144,000. Most of the 144,000 will have already died and will be resurrected at that final return. There is so much more to learn that Christians do not know. I was chosen before birth to be educated in a special way that most would not believe. We presently extremely close to the pre-trib rapture. The numbers adults taken in the rapture will sadly be very small. I would estimate less than 20,000 per my education.

Do you have the verse that says that the Millennial reign will be on Earth? Find it and I will eat every page in my Bible.

I do not know much about Urantia because I am a Christian. I have heard of it but I only know the Bible. the Bible says this:

John 14:2. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

That is a good start with some common ground although I do not believe the millenial reign is in heaven.


Rev 5:10 and have made us kings and priests to our God; and we shall reign on the earth."

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 06/13/2020 01:13 PM

When you READ Revelation...did you pay attention to WHAT was said?

Revelation 20

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

-------------------------------

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

------------------------------------------

Verse 20:1 When the angel "came down" - where is the logical place that he "came down" TO?

Verse 20:3 WHERE do nations "EXIST"? On earth.

Verse 20:4 WHERE had the beast BEEN during the End Times? ON earth.

Verse 20:8 and 9 - Nations - city - EARTH.

Finally...New Jerusalem doesn't appear until AFTER the "new Heaven" and the New Earth, which are ALL AFTER the "White Throne" / final judgement.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/13/2020 01:21 PM

In the KJV Bible, the translation is not wrong. Now you might not believe this but it is IMPOSSIBLE for the translation in the KJV to be wrong. You may ask why? Because GOD is real and knows how to protect what He wants in place. GOD will not leave us without giving us the proper WEAPON, A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD! Of course only a true Christian would know this.

Those verses you quoted say nothing about a Millennial reign being ON EARTH. Where are the words "MILLENNIAL REIGN ON EARTH"? It is only in your imagination. Also, With this large Universe you actually believe a nation can only exist on THIS EARTH (planet)? You have much to learn.

Rev 5:10 is correct but that is AFTER the Millennial reign; when the New Jerusalem comes down from the heavens and merged with this planet. We shall reign FOREVER! Everything in its own time.

Earth; But that is not the Millennial reign.

Verse 20:3 WHERE do nations "EXIST"? On earth.

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

And nations EXIST anyplace else wherever GOD allows them in the Universe. Of course in your mind you may think that GOD does not have such power so you LIMIT Him.

Verse 20:4 WHERE had the beast BEEN during the End Times? ON earth.

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Correct on the earth is where the beast will be for a thousand years while I am at the NEW JERUSALEM located "IN THE HEAVENS". The place that Jesus left to prepare for me so that where He is I can be also.

Verse 20:8 and 9 - Nations - city - EARTH.

 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

Nations EXIST anyplace wherever GOD allows them in the Universe. As I said before you may think in your mind that GOD does not have such power so you LIMIT Him. I don't limit GOD.



You mean the New Jerusalem doesn't come down from the heavens where it had already EXISTED for at least 1000 years, until AFTER the "new Heaven" and the New Earth is formed. The New Earth will then have a new firmament (heaven) and two planets will be merged by GOD. Then we will reign FOREVER.

You see when Jesus removed us from this planet at the pre-trib we weren't just floating in the air. He took us to a prepared place in the heavens; not the heaven of heavens. Remember there are three heavens.

3. GOD'S head quarters. Called the heaven of heavens and also called the third heaven.

Deu_10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

2Co_12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven

2. The heavens where all the planets are with Suns and Moons; which also includes the firmanent.

Gen_1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

1. That part of GOD that resides inside of you.

Luk_17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

....just some small points just about the man child....
...
1st...


Verse 5 says, “She brought forth a son, a man-child, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod.” This speaks of the millennial kingdom. The overcomers are the instrument that enables God to achieve His pur- pose. Revelation mentions shepherding “the nations with an iron rod” three times. First, 2:26-27 says, “He who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations; and he will shep- herd them with an iron rod.” This passage quite obviously refers to the overcomers in the church. The last mention of this phrase is 19:15, which says, “Out of His mouth proceeds a sharp sword, that with it He might smite the nations; and He will shepherd them with an iron rod.” This passage refers to the Lord Jesus. To whom then does the passage in chapter 12 refer? It must refer either to the overcomers in the church or to the Lord Jesus. Is it possi- ble that it refers to the Lord Jesus? No. (However, it is not wholly impossible, for later we will see that the Lord Jesus is included here.) Why is it not possible? First, the man- child was caught up to the throne of God immediately after he was born. Therefore, this could not be a reference to the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus was not caught up immediately after He was born. He lived thirty-three and a half years on this earth, died, resurrected, and then ascended to the heavens.

2nd
Revelation 12:5 continues, “Her child was caught up to God and to His throne.” Caught up in this verse differs in meaning from caught up as it is used in 1 Thessalonians 4. There it says that some will be caught up in the clouds, while here it says that the man-child was caught up to the throne of God. The man-child was caught up to the throne because someone is already on the throne..

3rd Immediately after the man-child is caught up, there is war in heaven. In other words, the cause of the war in heaven is the rapture of the man-child. From this we see that the rapture of the man-child is not just a matter of some individuals being caught up, but more than that, it is to bring to an end the warfare which has been going on for ages and generations. The old serpent, the enemy of God, has been fighting against God for several thousand years. When this warfare takes place in heaven, Michael and his angels fight against the dragon, who is the old ser- pent. Formerly he was a serpent, but now he has changed in form to a dragon. He has steadily increased his power. However, once the man-child is caught up, not only is the dragon unable to be enlarged any further, but he is cast down from heaven. The rapture of the man-child is a transaction which causes Satan to have no more position in heaven.......

There is a pre tribulation rapture...it’s confirmed throughout scripture...most believers have not paid the price to buy the oil(spirt)..in their daily living they Have not decreased very much for him to increase..they are still soulish and fleshly...so they will miss out on the reward..the bride is who who Christ raptures 1st and foremost...

Really? UTTER NONSENSE. And you don't know as much as you THINK you know.

Look above at VERSE 4.

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/13/2020 10:10 PM

GNOSTIC GNONSENSE

Mansions are NOT planets.

Again that does not say on this planet. That is at the New Jerusalem located in the heavens. I said show me where it says on earth and I will eat the pages of my Bible. And as far as you thinking of what I don't know, you haven't a clue of what I know. But that will soon be seen by many on a very important day when certain events unfold. I feel sorry for this planet.

So if you do not believe the Bible, why are you even discussing it? This is what nonsense is. You proclaim nonsense and yet call yourself "servant of the LORD" and do not believe what the Bible says. Do you even know "the LORD", or "the Lord GOD" and why it is spelled both ways in the Bible? What is the difference between the two?

Says who? And by what authority do you speak?

.

The word John used for mansion is the same word he used for abode in John 14:23 in the original Greek.

I submit these mansions or abodes are our new bodies/temples where God and Christ will be one with us.

That is the later context in John 24.


Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever,

Are you calling Luke 17:21 Gnostic Nonsense or did you only quote part of what the post said and calling that all nonsense?

Luke 17:21 agrees with what John Said along with OT Ezekiel and Paul about how your body is the temple of God.

I submit that the mansions are not physical houses but your body as a temple for God. A billion or so of people will be God's temple will be part of New Jerusalem.

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?

1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

You're mistaken. I fully BELIEVE what the Bible says.
I DON'T believe oddball interpretations of things said.

The supposition of "within you" would mean that when a person dies, their soul goes "inside" themselves. This is blatantly WRONG.

Folks like you take a single verse about a topic like "the kingdom of God" and proclaim that it's the "be all / end all" of the subject. It isn't.

The kingdom of God is the same as the kingdom of heaven.
I suggest that you go and read ALL the passages that use the phrases.

"kingdom of God" in the 4 Gospels

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The phrase "kingdom of heaven" 32 times (ALL in Matthew)

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

The phrase "my kingdom" - said by Jesus - 4 times in the 4 Gospels - Matthew thru John.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]



The authority of scripture dictates such.

Where does scripture say that mansions are planets?

It doesn't.

New Jerusalem is 1500 miles square.

LOT'S of room for MANSIONS.

1. So The Father's throne and the seraphim are "inside of us"?

2. Is a new heaven going to happen "INSIDE US" when Christ returns?

3. Is a new earth going to be formed INSIDE US?

4. So the "New Jerusalem" descends "into us" - and NOT "down to earth"?

5. So...when we die we go "into our own selves"?????

6. So Ezekial was taken "inside himself" instead of heaven ABOVE?

7. So the throne and seraphims that Isaiah saw in Chapter 9 were "inside himself"?

8. So the throne and other things John described in Revelation were "inside himself"?

9. How about Enoch? Was everything he described actually "inside himself"?

10. So when God TOOK Enoch - He took him to "inside himself"?

11. So the "paradise" that Paul was taken "UP" to was "inside Himself"?

12. Jesus ASCENDED "into people" - NOT into heaven above???

13. So "the Father's house" and the "many mansions" that Jesus talks about - are ALL inside of US - where YOU say the kingdom of God exists?

14. So the Father SENT Jesus from "inside ourselves"?

15. So the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit from "inside ourselves"?

16. So when Elijah was taken by the chariot, he was taken to "inside himself"?

17. ALL the souls under the alter in Revelation 6:9 are "inside us"???

18. So where is the "heaven" that is refered to in the Lord's Prayer?

You're splitting hairs needlessly.

These are ALL from the "infallible" KJV.

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Psalm 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Here's a couple of tidbits from Isaiah.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Isaiah 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength.

Thread: ONE Gospel - FROM God - THRU Jesus - Taught by ALL of the Apostles - NOT Just Paul - Bible Study

And to prove my point further, look at the names of the places given in these verses.

Genesis 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Exodus 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovah-nissi:

Judges 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovah-shalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.

Abraham, Moses and Gideon ALL KNEW the Father's name.

49 mins


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]




Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 06/14/2020 12:20 PM

Theological doctrine based on the verse Luke 17:21 of "inside you" is a classic example of this.

Thread: False Doctrines - The Danger of "Single Verse Doctrinal Theology" - Biblical Discernment - Peter is Satan / the Serpent?

I am not saying the whole of New Jerusalem is the people. I submit that Christ and the church are the temple and the temple is in New Jerusalem. To say other wise would be to discount the words if Ezekiel, Christ, Paul, Peter, Etc.

In Luke the Kingdom of God is where God resides inside his temple. Just like home is where your family is. Otherwise it is just a house and not a home.

We are the living tents/temples/tabernacles where God will dwell.


Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Mat 23:21 "He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.

Joh 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Act 17:24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 06/14/2020 01:06 PM

The Word inside in Luke 17:21 is based on the Greek Strongs 1787. entos def. within, inside, the inside, among

This word was used twice in the NT.

Matthew 23:26 and Luke 17:21.

In the case of Matthew 23:26 it was speaking about cleaning the inside of the cup. Not being among the cup. Matthew 23 being a perfect example of the inside of the Cup not being Clean or a bad spirit. We should have God's Spirit in us. The Pharisees did not have the Spirit of God.

Matthew 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Most people have trouble believing in the Power of GOD. So they look for excuses to support their weak faith in an Omnipotent GOD. They can look straight at a verse with all its power exposed and then come to a condescending view of GOD. Therefore they will conclude that mansion can't be planets they must be bodies. But examine the context of the scripture. Is a place (Mansion) or a thing (body) being discussed?

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

The first words overlooked are "if it were not so, I would have told you". Jesus is saying "if there were NOT many planets (manions) I would have told you that yours was the only one". But He did not tell them that Earth was the only Mansion.

Now notice he can't be talking about a body because He is NOT talking about a THING. He is talking about a PLACE and even in context uses the word PLACE. I go to prepare a thing or a place? At the pre-trib Jesus is going to take us to one of those PLACES and not one of those THINGS. In the heavens there are many of these PLACES and he went to get one ready for us. He did not go to prepare THINGS; He went to prepare one PLACE.