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Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.

 
LTHN.  (OP)

User ID: 78992355
Canada
06/11/2020 04:34 PM

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Re: Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.
Here is the reason:

Because back in 1987 a law was passed that stated no home speakers could be above 87 DB efficient. This law went into effect right around 1993.

Since then, subsequent laws have been passed, knocking them down to about 83 DB efficient.

It is extremely difficult to get a speaker to be THAT crappy and still produce good sound. Back in the day, there were coaxial single cone speakers with whizzer tweeters in the center of the cone (these don't have a voice coil, they only maximize what comes out of the high frequency sweet spot of a larger cone) and they were typically around 97 DB efficient and sounded great.

97DB efficient is over 100X the power per watt out the speaker as compared to 83 -

It is perfectly possible to get a full range cone to produce all frequencies quite well if there is no mandate to basically destroy the speaker so badly it only performs to 1 percent of what it could. The old portable radios proved this in spades.

To hit hifi, it does pay to have woofer/midrange/tweeter but it sure is not needed, plenty of the great stuff from the past proved it and in the professional arena, you still see it.

That said, lots of professional systems at least have woofer/tweeter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77550908


I just checked the stats on my Lascalas, they have maximum continuous output of 124 dB.!
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LTHN.  (OP)

User ID: 78992355
Canada
06/11/2020 04:37 PM

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Re: Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.
Why is it that home stereo speakers have a woofer, midrange and tweeter speaker( occasionally more than one) to reproduce musical recordings, yet the speakers used to play live and record music only have woofers in them?
If the sound from a musician's miked 2 X 12's or 4 X 12's cabinets cover all the frequency ranges and clarity, why the use of additional midrange and tweeters in home stereo speakers to duplicate that sound?

1dunno1
 Quoting: LTHN.


Music reproduction is an art. The studio will use something very flat, and typically not terribly large, either. And sometimes multiple pairs to compare playback.

The home audiophile is going to want that recording to gain depth and separation along with a good sound stage. That's where the art is. A good sound stage is difficult to produce, but when it's there, it can be magical!

The speakers I believe you are talking about are the guitar and bass stacks. For guitar, you don't really need the higher frequencies, and if the artist wants that, there are stacks with horns to catch the higher frequencies.

Drums and cymbals, keyboards, horns, et al, need the higher end, but that's captured by a good mike, and doesn't need a speaker to directly amplify.

There are all-in-one drivers. Planar speakers like the Martin Logans. That removes the crossover. Crossovers are the bane of pedestrian speakers. Listen to a female alto vocal and if there is a slight bit of harsh to the sound, that's the crossover. One can also bi-amp (or more) to get rid of that harshness. That also helps with the soundstage and imaging.

One downside of a great sound system is you can really tell the well engineered recordings from the bad ones.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


I haven't owned a pair of Marrin Logan speakers, but have read on audio forums that the high end sound too sharp for many ears, yet those who like them swear by them for clean sound reproduction.
 Quoting: LTHN.


The ML's placement is absolutely critical and the amp will make a noticable difference. They need a lot of power, but a tube amp makes them sound warmer. A powerful tube amp, though, is still on the wish list.

I tell you what, though, I'm -really- impressed with my integrated KEF LS50. Small with surprisingly large sound. Great office speakers.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


KEF make some fantastic speakers, glad to hear you are enjoying their sound!

Last Edited by LTHN. on 06/11/2020 04:37 PM
"A wise man listens to the message and uses his logic and discernment to process it, a fool negates the message by prejudging the messenger."

"He whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."
Pilgrim001

User ID: 78018011
United States
06/11/2020 04:43 PM

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Re: Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.
Why is it that home stereo speakers have a woofer, midrange and tweeter speaker( occasionally more than one) to reproduce musical recordings, yet the speakers used to play live and record music only have woofers in them?
If the sound from a musician's miked 2 X 12's or 4 X 12's cabinets cover all the frequency ranges and clarity, why the use of additional midrange and tweeters in home stereo speakers to duplicate that sound?

1dunno1
 Quoting: LTHN.


Music reproduction is an art. The studio will use something very flat, and typically not terribly large, either. And sometimes multiple pairs to compare playback.

The home audiophile is going to want that recording to gain depth and separation along with a good sound stage. That's where the art is. A good sound stage is difficult to produce, but when it's there, it can be magical!

The speakers I believe you are talking about are the guitar and bass stacks. For guitar, you don't really need the higher frequencies, and if the artist wants that, there are stacks with horns to catch the higher frequencies.

Drums and cymbals, keyboards, horns, et al, need the higher end, but that's captured by a good mike, and doesn't need a speaker to directly amplify.

There are all-in-one drivers. Planar speakers like the Martin Logans. That removes the crossover. Crossovers are the bane of pedestrian speakers. Listen to a female alto vocal and if there is a slight bit of harsh to the sound, that's the crossover. One can also bi-amp (or more) to get rid of that harshness. That also helps with the soundstage and imaging.

One downside of a great sound system is you can really tell the well engineered recordings from the bad ones.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


I haven't owned a pair of Marrin Logan speakers, but have read on audio forums that the high end sound too sharp for many ears, yet those who like them swear by them for clean sound reproduction.
 Quoting: LTHN.


The ML's placement is absolutely critical and the amp will make a noticable difference. They need a lot of power, but a tube amp makes them sound warmer. A powerful tube amp, though, is still on the wish list.

I tell you what, though, I'm -really- impressed with my integrated KEF LS50. Small with surprisingly large sound. Great office speakers.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


I would love to open those up to see what's inside.
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32455385
United Kingdom
06/11/2020 05:16 PM
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Re: Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.
Why is it that home stereo speakers have a woofer, midrange and tweeter speaker( occasionally more than one) to reproduce musical recordings, yet the speakers used to play live and record music only have woofers in them?
If the sound from a musician's miked 2 X 12's or 4 X 12's cabinets cover all the frequency ranges and clarity, why the use of additional midrange and tweeters in home stereo speakers to duplicate that sound?

1dunno1
 Quoting: LTHN.


Basically there's some truth in what most people say here. It depends what you're outcome of listening is.

Producers and engineers need to hear music on various systems including a flat response system to get the right levels of the frequencies and stereo field that will set the overall mix of what is released (or originally pressed to vinyl). It is important to listen on various stereo speakers too.

Hifi speakers are designed for the listener and will add boost in different regions and colouration depending on its design and materials. Born in the vinyl era they were designed to bring your vinyl to life with key features such as an EQ booster on the hi-fi system. Much of the old music was in mono up until the 60s and 2 channel stereo going through the years up to our multichannel audio of late.

Modern speakers that include cones and tweeter are designed to enrich the high end but as mentioned by others this is controlled with a cross network that can overload or just not be that great making some music sound different to what it should. Lots of studios have various speakers and subs to switch between including multi cone and woofer systems. What is most important is the manufacturing of the product. This requires research and testing to see what is best for you.



Real professionals respect the ribbon tweeter and the
Maguyver
Fix'r

User ID: 69719679
United States
06/11/2020 05:19 PM

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Re: Question regarding home speakers VS musician's speakers.
...


Music reproduction is an art. The studio will use something very flat, and typically not terribly large, either. And sometimes multiple pairs to compare playback.

The home audiophile is going to want that recording to gain depth and separation along with a good sound stage. That's where the art is. A good sound stage is difficult to produce, but when it's there, it can be magical!

The speakers I believe you are talking about are the guitar and bass stacks. For guitar, you don't really need the higher frequencies, and if the artist wants that, there are stacks with horns to catch the higher frequencies.

Drums and cymbals, keyboards, horns, et al, need the higher end, but that's captured by a good mike, and doesn't need a speaker to directly amplify.

There are all-in-one drivers. Planar speakers like the Martin Logans. That removes the crossover. Crossovers are the bane of pedestrian speakers. Listen to a female alto vocal and if there is a slight bit of harsh to the sound, that's the crossover. One can also bi-amp (or more) to get rid of that harshness. That also helps with the soundstage and imaging.

One downside of a great sound system is you can really tell the well engineered recordings from the bad ones.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


I haven't owned a pair of Marrin Logan speakers, but have read on audio forums that the high end sound too sharp for many ears, yet those who like them swear by them for clean sound reproduction.
 Quoting: LTHN.


The ML's placement is absolutely critical and the amp will make a noticable difference. They need a lot of power, but a tube amp makes them sound warmer. A powerful tube amp, though, is still on the wish list.

I tell you what, though, I'm -really- impressed with my integrated KEF LS50. Small with surprisingly large sound. Great office speakers.

cheers
 Quoting: Maguyver


I would love to open those up to see what's inside.
 Quoting: Pilgrim001


There's a lot of something. They are very heavy!

cheers
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