The sacking of the great library of Alexandria | |
RepublicofTexas
User ID: 44964232 United States 07/13/2020 11:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78327527 Germany 07/13/2020 11:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the sackings of Alexandria and Baghdad libraries are one of the biggest tragedies in human history Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78327527 The House of Wisdom On February 13, 1258, the Mongols entered the city of the caliphs, starting a full week of pillage and destruction. With all other libraries in Baghdad, the House of Wisdom was destroyed by the army of Hulagu during the Siege of Baghdad. Throughout the 4th to 7th centuries, scholarly work in the Arabic languages was either newly initiated or carried on from the Hellenistic period. Centers of learning and of transmission of classical wisdom included colleges such as the School of Nisibis and later the School of Edessa, and the renowned hospital and medical academy of Jundishapur; libraries included the Library of Alexandria and the Imperial Library of Constantinople; and other centers of translation and learning functioned at Merv, Salonika, Nishapur and Ctesiphon, situated just south of what was later to become Baghdad. Millions of ancient books were burned, a tragedy even bigger than Alexandria |
Half Past Midnight
User ID: 78659823 United States 07/13/2020 11:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is an old tale, probably not true, that when a Muslim invader sacked a similar large library of the ancient world (forget which one), he ordered all the books burnt. “If there are any that say things that differ from the Koran, they deserve to be burnt; if there are any that say the same, it is no loss for we already have the Koran.” Quoting: Ordovician I recall reading about one where the guys trying to save the books, put them in crates & then took them down the river in the middle of the night. They were black & they had to pay people along the way to let them go through. They got caught at least once & the crates got opened (I think the police/guards/whatever thoguht they were moving drugs. |
Ordovician
(OP) User ID: 78888548 Japan 07/13/2020 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the sackings of Alexandria and Baghdad libraries are one of the biggest tragedies in human history Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78327527 Another event that doesn’t get much global recognition was the sacking of the Enryakuji temple complex on Mt. Hie in Japan by the warlord Nobunaga. It is hard to overstate the sheer wealth and luxury that had accumulated at Enryakuji by the 1500s...mountains of gold, silver, precious jewels, priceless art from many eras of Asian history, and multiple enormous libraries full of esoteric Buddhist texts. Ostensibly a “humble monastic compound,” Enryakuji grew to become a collection of hundreds of buildings piled high with treasure. It enjoyed imperial and aristocratic patronage, and owned vast tracts of Tax-free land that it managed at a distance (and at a huge profit). It owned several banks that were among the largest in Japan, and it had its own private army of warrior monks. Perched along a high mountain ridge, it was a safe oasis of luxury and scholarship in the brutally bloody Warring States period. The vast power and wealth, as well as the significant military strength of its private army, brought it to the attention of Nobunaga, who was trying to unite a war-torn nation and saw Enryakuji as less a religious institute and more a haughty competitor for worldly power. He attacked and burned the entire complex to the ground, leaving only one small hall intact after slaughtering every living thing and flattening every structure. It was said dual rivers of molten gold and blood flowed down the mountain. It cannot be said this rather worldly institution was particularly clean-handed, but the centuries of lost scholarship may have rivaled the Alexandra library in volume. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 40395564 United States 07/13/2020 11:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Good post OP! I too have often wondered what was lost. It angers me when I see people pitch old books. I buy / salvage more than I should I'm sure, but I want to ensure my children, children's children and so forth reap the beauty of knowledge and great stories. I'm on the hunt for Ridpaths ancient history books that came out turn of the century. Evil hates knowledge because it is easy to reign over the ignorant. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79125999 Ireland 07/13/2020 11:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the sackings of Alexandria and Baghdad libraries are one of the biggest tragedies in human history Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78327527 The House of Wisdom On February 13, 1258, the Mongols entered the city of the caliphs, starting a full week of pillage and destruction. With all other libraries in Baghdad, the House of Wisdom was destroyed by the army of Hulagu during the Siege of Baghdad. Throughout the 4th to 7th centuries, scholarly work in the Arabic languages was either newly initiated or carried on from the Hellenistic period. Centers of learning and of transmission of classical wisdom included colleges such as the School of Nisibis and later the School of Edessa, and the renowned hospital and medical academy of Jundishapur; libraries included the Library of Alexandria and the Imperial Library of Constantinople; and other centers of translation and learning functioned at Merv, Salonika, Nishapur and Ctesiphon, situated just south of what was later to become Baghdad. Millions of ancient books were burned, a tragedy even bigger than Alexandria Karma! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 74576496 United States 07/13/2020 11:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Red Hot Chilean Pepe
User ID: 76933812 Chile 07/13/2020 11:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] The most painful part is that this was intentional destruction for stupid zealot religious reasons. And most ironic, overall, that the asshat that ordered it later was "canonized" (declared to be a Saint). All great truths begin as Blasphemies. G.B.S. GLP is like a diamond mine of information, in the sense that you have to shovel mountains of crap to find the diamonds, but it's still worth the pain. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 51448943 United States 07/13/2020 11:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79049741 Canada 07/13/2020 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] Just another reason why the world shouldn’t fall prey to muslam/islam. |
Q33
User ID: 78698051 Canada 07/13/2020 11:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] who burned it? |
Red Hot Chilean Pepe
User ID: 76933812 Chile 07/13/2020 11:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the sackings of Alexandria and Baghdad libraries are one of the biggest tragedies in human history Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78327527 And both were motivated by a stupid mixture of religious and political zealotism BS. Any time someone asks what is the single thing I would get humanity rid off if given the chance, I always choose ignorance, which in turn would get us rid of every other nuisance. All great truths begin as Blasphemies. G.B.S. GLP is like a diamond mine of information, in the sense that you have to shovel mountains of crap to find the diamonds, but it's still worth the pain. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 75993659 Canada 07/13/2020 11:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A sample: Quoting: Ordovician Lost plays of Aristarchus of Tegea. Of 70 pieces, only the titles of three of his plays, with a single line of the text, have survived. Lost plays of Aristophanes. He wrote 40 plays, 11 of which survive. Lost works of Aristotle. It is believed that we have about one third of his original works. Lost work of Aristoxenus. He is said to have written 453 works, dealing with philosophy, ethics and music. His only extant work is Elements of Harmony. Lost works of the historian Arrian. Lost works of Callimachus. Of about 800 works, in verse and prose; only six hymns, 64 epigrams and some fragments survive; a considerable fragment of the epic Hecale, was discovered in the Rainer papyri. Lost works of Chrysippus. Of over 700 written works, none survive, except a few fragments embedded in the works of later authors. Lost works of Cicero. Of his books, six on rhetoric have survived, and parts of seven on philosophy. Books 1–3 of his work De re publica have survived mostly intact, as well as a substantial part of book 6. A dialogue on philosophy called Hortensius, which was highly influential on Augustine of Hippo, is lost. Part of De Natura Deorum is lost. Lost works of Cleopatra including books on medicine, charms, and cosmetics (according to the historian Al-Masudi). This one was probably the most important one lost: - The Book of Thoth, a legendary manuscript alluded to in Egyptian literature believed to contain the secrets to comprehend the power of the gods and speech of animals. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79081736 United States 07/13/2020 11:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ScouseDee
User ID: 77414639 United Kingdom 07/13/2020 11:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There is an old tale, probably not true, that when a Muslim invader sacked a similar large library of the ancient world (forget which one), he ordered all the books burnt. “If there are any that say things that differ from the Koran, they deserve to be burnt; if there are any that say the same, it is no loss for we already have the Koran.” Quoting: Ordovician Your talking about the Library of Alexandria. Caesar was the first to try and burn it as a military tactic, but the muslims when they conquered Egypt, destroyed everything. No, I've heard that story as well and I believe he is speaking of the Library of Nishapur in India. ScouseDee |
Anonymous User ID: 79133120 United States 07/13/2020 11:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | They have in the past. It takes decades even centuries to grow a civilization and it can all be destroyed in one instant. Reminds me of how all the old big trees were cut down. We will never have an environment again like the forests of old when everything was healthier, greener and bigger. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 51448943 United States 07/13/2020 12:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "The house of Wisdom"..The human race almost never had the 0123456789,algebra,and trigonometry....Note,there is an abandoned RR tunnel,thru solid rock,taken over by the Gov.,'50's.Special doors built on each end.Doors can withstand a direct hit,Nuclear.....everything ever published in the English language on microfilm. |
abbaton713
User ID: 78953457 United States 07/13/2020 12:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A sample: Quoting: Ordovician Lost plays of Aristarchus of Tegea. Of 70 pieces, only the titles of three of his plays, with a single line of the text, have survived. Lost plays of Aristophanes. He wrote 40 plays, 11 of which survive. Lost works of Aristotle. It is believed that we have about one third of his original works. Lost work of Aristoxenus. He is said to have written 453 works, dealing with philosophy, ethics and music. His only extant work is Elements of Harmony. Lost works of the historian Arrian. Lost works of Callimachus. Of about 800 works, in verse and prose; only six hymns, 64 epigrams and some fragments survive; a considerable fragment of the epic Hecale, was discovered in the Rainer papyri. Lost works of Chrysippus. Of over 700 written works, none survive, except a few fragments embedded in the works of later authors. Lost works of Cicero. Of his books, six on rhetoric have survived, and parts of seven on philosophy. Books 1–3 of his work De re publica have survived mostly intact, as well as a substantial part of book 6. A dialogue on philosophy called Hortensius, which was highly influential on Augustine of Hippo, is lost. Part of De Natura Deorum is lost. Lost works of Cleopatra including books on medicine, charms, and cosmetics (according to the historian Al-Masudi). This one was probably the most important one lost: - The Book of Thoth, a legendary manuscript alluded to in Egyptian literature believed to contain the secrets to comprehend the power of the gods and speech of animals. yeah- purportedly 'Enoch' and 'HERMES TRISMEGISTUS'... essentially godfather to Sumeria, cuneiform, ziggurats... the land where abram/abraham was from... comes down to Babylon the great, as they say... lots to blame but the mentality of Rome and her shape on the entire world still to this day is undeniable rev911 ††† |
Lady Jayne Smith
Forum Administrator 07/13/2020 12:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First they emptied the library and put the scrolls onto ships. THEN they burned it down. The ships set sail for Italy. Everything is hidden at the Vatican. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72551188 If any of the scrolls survived, the Vatican, or private collections, are the most likely location. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A |
vEyeSea
User ID: 78112163 United States 07/13/2020 12:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's all the stuff that we don't know about that was burned that is the real problem. Family names from antiquity, lineages, real history (of Egypt and more), how the pyramids were built, astronomy, etc. I read that the burning of the books provided the fuel to heat the roman baths for months. I think the fire was deliberate to erase ancient history. To learn who rules over you, find out who you are not allowed to criticize. When the government is wrong, it's dangerous to be right. The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant. -Robspierre |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 34791511 United States 07/13/2020 12:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Use your brian... moran!
User ID: 78940322 United States 07/13/2020 12:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] I still say the majority was hidden &/or in the Sanican...err..Vatican "archives". Fuck what the flag by my name says, I'm from Texas! Wake up & smell reality. I have to much blood in my caffeine stream! "Oh look--another basement dwelling loser who ain't had pussy since pussy had him." Beans.N.Rice “The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers...” Robert Kirkman |
Red Hot Chilean Pepe
User ID: 76933812 Chile 07/13/2020 12:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Most probably we all consider the Alexandria Burning related to the murder of Hypatia, but history is never so simple. That is the most "iconic" burning, but the events are not so crystal clear nor impartial those who created the historical records. This article attempts to provide a more wholesome view, and that's why I say that it was a mixture of religious and political zealotry. [link to ehistory.osu.edu (secure)] About part or the whole of it ending in the Vatican library vaults, we all know they are adept at keeping things hidden and I would never discard the possibility, nor can I assert they did. All great truths begin as Blasphemies. G.B.S. GLP is like a diamond mine of information, in the sense that you have to shovel mountains of crap to find the diamonds, but it's still worth the pain. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 76984449 United States 07/13/2020 12:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First they emptied the library and put the scrolls onto ships. THEN they burned it down. The ships set sail for Italy. Everything is hidden at the Vatican. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72551188 Now that is probably what happened. They want people to think it was all destroyed. People have hidden away all sorts of things when they knew destruction was near. Heck my relatives buried all sorts of things like silverware during the civil war so the troops wouldn’t get it. The people who worked at that library most likely did the same thing. They got those scrolls out of dodge. |
brokenhalo
User ID: 79128743 United States 07/13/2020 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If only we could go back in time and prevent so many terrible things like that from happening. I feel like ignorance is destroying so much. Quoting: The Deplorable Truth The US may get a round of book-burning and library-sacking after they get tired of tearing down statues. Or physical libraries may decay and close for lack of funds, and all the “great classics” may become deleted from the internet as “white supremacy.” Want to read Plato’s Republic? Sorry, MonopolyOnlineBookseller dot com no longer carries “controversial titles.” Your local bookstore? Went out of business 12 years ago. Maybe you could ask an elderly neighbor but he might be too afraid you are a neo-stasi informant you let you peer into his yellowing attic stack of old Penguin Classics. This is prescient and scary...because it's likely true. We cannot let this happen. I'm a Cyperpunk - Ask me what it means sometime. ------- “All the speed he took, all the turns he'd taken and the corners he'd cut in Night City, and still he'd see the matrix in his sleep, bright lattices of logic unfolding across that colorless void...” -- William Gibson, Neuromancer |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 74982160 United States 07/13/2020 12:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] I don't mean to rain on your parade but as a historian specifically in Greco history I can just tell you that everything you think of Plato is misinformed Besides philosophy he was also a writer. And I could say for certain that he loved to speak in allegories and tell stories The story of Atlantis was an allegory about greek dominance over the known world. They were able to fight off the mighty atlanteans so who can mess with the mighty Greeks It has no basis in history and Plato did not believe it, it was a fictional story about Greek dominance Thanks for your input. I’m not wedded to the idea of Atlantis but I find it interesting. All of the other things that have been lost are definitely interesting and it's a shame that they are all lost to history The Egyptians the Greeks and the Romans, all share a bond as Apex civilizations Showing you what the height of human ingenuity could do, even in a time when they're tools were not up-to-date as their mind I've never subscribed to aliens building the pyramids or anything.. Because 100000 workers, with Master Craftsman and Masons , working around the clock in shifts for 40 straight years, can do anything And that's the power of humans Hogwash. Our technology level accurately reflects the level of our mind. In fact, it is the sole unbiased metric. |
Don't fear the truthbeare User ID: 79122254 Canada 07/13/2020 12:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Who knows what wisdom was lost in such a barbaric act? The archives of Atlantas? 1/3 of Plato’s work, said to deal with mystical topics, gone forever. Quoting: Ordovician List of lost works: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)] depends who you talk to... some say the Library's major works were stolen then it was burned down? |
Bill the Butcher
User ID: 59310310 United States 07/13/2020 12:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
RepublicofTexas
User ID: 44964232 United States 07/13/2020 12:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First they emptied the library and put the scrolls onto ships. THEN they burned it down. The ships set sail for Italy. Everything is hidden at the Vatican. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72551188 Now that is probably what happened. They want people to think it was all destroyed. People have hidden away all sorts of things when they knew destruction was near. Heck my relatives buried all sorts of things like silverware during the civil war so the troops wouldn’t get it. The people who worked at that library most likely did the same thing. They got those scrolls out of dodge. A priest in college told us that there are six levels of archives below the Vatican, and most ancient holdings there would never see sunlight. Make America Strong Again Make America Sexy Again I'm fukken this monkey, you just shut up and hold the tail." |
Lo0seR User ID: 72867680 United States 07/13/2020 12:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | First they emptied the library and put the scrolls onto ships. THEN they burned it down. The ships set sail for Italy. Everything is hidden at the Vatican. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72551188 If any of the scrolls survived, the Vatican, or private collections, are the most likely location. Absolutely! Nothing is lost, just hidden and kept for themselves (that's a whole other topic), the vast amount of knowledge acquired and held by the very few I believe surpasses anything from the past by leaps and bounds. |