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Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 02:45 PM
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Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
"Even as researchers since then have managed to enable a massive lithium-ion economy of portable electronic devices, they have never gotten beyond inserting just a small few crumbs of the metal into the batteries powering iPhones, Tesla automobiles, and Chromebooks. Pure lithium has remained the Holy Grail - the presumed best consumer battery possible using currently known principles and technology, but always out of reach since no one could figure out how to actually deploy the metal without the risk of fire.

Now, in a colossal claim, QuantumScape, a 10-year-old San Jose, California, startup backed by Bill Gates, said in an interview that it has resolved lithium’s problems, and that VW, the giant German automaker, expects to have cars using pure metallic lithium in their batteries on the road by 2025. Jagdeep Singh, QuantumScape’s CEO, also announced that the company is going public, using a so-called SPAC to list on the New York Stock Exchange in the fourth quarter. The post-listing valuation would be $4.3 billion, Singh said. In a SPAC, a company goes public by merging with an existing, listed shell company...." [less than 50%]

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Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 02:47 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Bill Gates....

I'd rather walk, thanks.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/05/2020 02:48 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Bill Gates....

I'd rather walk, thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 51018032


He just made a good bet, that's all.
vAv

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09/05/2020 02:49 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
"Even as researchers since then have managed to enable a massive lithium-ion economy of portable electronic devices, they have never gotten beyond inserting just a small few crumbs of the metal into the batteries powering iPhones, Tesla automobiles, and Chromebooks. Pure lithium has remained the Holy Grail - the presumed best consumer battery possible using currently known principles and technology, but always out of reach since no one could figure out how to actually deploy the metal without the risk of fire.

Now, in a colossal claim, QuantumScape, a 10-year-old San Jose, California, startup backed by Bill Gates, said in an interview that it has resolved lithium’s problems, and that VW, the giant German automaker, expects to have cars using pure metallic lithium in their batteries on the road by 2025. Jagdeep Singh, QuantumScape’s CEO, also announced that the company is going public, using a so-called SPAC to list on the New York Stock Exchange in the fourth quarter. The post-listing valuation would be $4.3 billion, Singh said. In a SPAC, a company goes public by merging with an existing, listed shell company...." [less than 50%]

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 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79345769


hiding
vAv
Agent 99

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09/05/2020 02:52 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
When disasters end innovation blooms.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 02:54 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
These fools are going to create a REAL environmental catastrophe with all these fucking batteries trying to avoid a FAKE environmental catastrophe called climate change!


putin
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09/05/2020 02:57 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
I can't wait for petro dollar to end. World need to come to a resource based economy. But by 2050 the middle East problems would have shifted to Europe thanks to mass migration of mooselimbs
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/05/2020 02:59 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
These fools are going to create a REAL environmental catastrophe with all these fucking batteries trying to avoid a FAKE environmental catastrophe called climate change!


putin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77784968


How so? I would love to be educated on that topic if that is the case.
Cap’n Obvious

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09/05/2020 03:21 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
Have a nice day = GFY. GFY = Go Fuck Yourself. If this offends you then have a nice day.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 03:30 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
 Quoting: Cap’n Obvious


I would guess that the theory works fine in prototypes. The problem is always scalability. They need to now figure out how to make a whole lot of these batteries. Factories need to be built and a supply chain needs to be established for all the materials that they require.
Doctor Congo

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09/05/2020 03:36 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Hey, here is some free advice for GLP inventors from old man Doctor Congo. All the battery development lately has been for road vehicles. Off grid homes need better batteries too. But these homes don't need miniature batteries like cars require. I would be happy with storage batteries that will fit into 55 gallon drums. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE SMALL.

Lithium is expensive and lead-acid is unreliable. I would dedicate an entire outbuilding to dozens of 55 gallon drum batteries if it meant I could store solar/windmill power cheaply and reliably.

Figure it out and become a billionaire.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 03:37 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
 Quoting: Cap’n Obvious


Going from fundamental research to a proof-of-concept for new tech takes typically ten years. Bridging the 'death valley' between proof-of-concept and marketable product takes 4-6 years.

If you knew how real research is done, you'd know this is a very realistic view.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 03:37 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
If Volkerswagonen is selling it , you know they will phuk it up like their horrible cars.
Doctor Congo

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09/05/2020 03:41 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
If Volkerswagonen is selling it , you know they will phuk it up like their horrible cars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79119916


When I still lived in France I had a VW 5 speed that rocked the autobahn. You didn't even get to fifth gear until 90 mph or so. It was great, at least until it started falling apart. LOL. Sold it to a Corsican.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:03 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Hey, here is some free advice for GLP inventors from old man Doctor Congo. All the battery development lately has been for road vehicles. Off grid homes need better batteries too. But these homes don't need miniature batteries like cars require. I would be happy with storage batteries that will fit into 55 gallon drums. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE SMALL.

Lithium is expensive and lead-acid is unreliable. I would dedicate an entire outbuilding to dozens of 55 gallon drum batteries if it meant I could store solar/windmill power cheaply and reliably.

Figure it out and become a billionaire.
 Quoting: Doctor Congo


What about a gravity battery?

Excess electricity is used to pump water high up into high water tank. Let the water drain out through a water turbine driving a generator when needed during the night?
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:05 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
These fools are going to create a REAL environmental catastrophe with all these fucking batteries trying to avoid a FAKE environmental catastrophe called climate change!


putin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77784968


How so? I would love to be educated on that topic if that is the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79345769


There is SO MUCH information on the environmental and public health impacts related to lithium batteries - from mining, to processing to disposal. Here is just a simple layman’s summary: [link to www.wired.co.uk (secure)]
Leyline Walker

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09/05/2020 04:10 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Is there nothing this madman has not his hands into ???

billgates

Last Edited by Leyline Walker on 09/05/2020 04:11 PM
He has shown you, o man, what is good. And what does the Lord ask of you, but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly before your God?
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:25 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
These fools are going to create a REAL environmental catastrophe with all these fucking batteries trying to avoid a FAKE environmental catastrophe called climate change!


putin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77784968


How so? I would love to be educated on that topic if that is the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79345769


Where exactly do you think all of the power to charge these batteries is going to come from? Answer: coal burning power plants because wind & solar is so expensive & inefficient. Do you have any idea how many power plants they'd have to build in LA alone if that region was to mandate the use of solar cars? Everyone would be driving around in a fog of coal smoke in their stupid electric cars!

Then what about the batteries? How biodegradable do you think those things are? Answer: not very! So now we're going to have land fills choked with giant toxic batteries laying around.

pennbrains
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/05/2020 04:25 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
If Volkerswagonen is selling it , you know they will phuk it up like their horrible cars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79119916


When I still lived in France I had a VW 5 speed that rocked the autobahn. You didn't even get to fifth gear until 90 mph or so. It was great, at least until it started falling apart. LOL. Sold it to a Corsican.
 Quoting: Doctor Congo


VW turbo-diesels are some of the most fuel-efficient vehicles ever made, with an excellent balance of fuel-efficiency and power. They still sell them in Europe but the organized theft of VW assets by the West known as "Diesel Gate" (they did nothing wrong really) has kept VW from bringing their best vehicles to America. 60mpg turbodiesel Golf's with good power delivery is what America is missing. Now they just sell us slow heavy vehicles like the Atlas. That could all change with the right leaders in America (and I don't mean Biden, or even Trump for that matter). VW has largely been unhurt by DieselGate because their European sales are so strong and their sales in Asia have made up for DieselGate many times over. They simply don't need the American market but have chosen to invest in it now that they will soon overtake Tesla in affordable, long-range EV's. That's probably why Tesla just met with the VW bosses.
CK Dexter Haven

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09/05/2020 04:36 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
If Volkerswagonen is selling it , you know they will phuk it up like their horrible cars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79119916

explosion
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/05/2020 04:37 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
If Volkerswagonen is selling it , you know they will phuk it up like their horrible cars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79119916

explosion
 Quoting: CK Dexter Haven


Explosions: that would be Tesla and Ford (Pinto).
Phillip J. Fry

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09/05/2020 04:42 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
IPO Scam billgates
.

"Don't do anything that affects anything. Unless it turns out you were supposed to do it, in which case for the love of God. Don't not do it!"
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:44 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Vw make some of the best vehicles on the planet... I love the customised T6. 1 Van's. Low riders. Air suspension... I know that VW will make epic electric vehicles. Truth is. They already do make excellent electric vehicles. I personally rate them above Tesla.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:52 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Imagine if volkswagen would have gotten into the full size truck market, with only diesel motors...
Cap’n Obvious

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09/05/2020 04:54 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
 Quoting: Cap’n Obvious


Going from fundamental research to a proof-of-concept for new tech takes typically ten years. Bridging the 'death valley' between proof-of-concept and marketable product takes 4-6 years.

If you knew how real research is done, you'd know this is a very realistic view.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79321657


That’s such a 1990s viewpoint.
Have a nice day = GFY. GFY = Go Fuck Yourself. If this offends you then have a nice day.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2020 04:56 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
 Quoting: Cap’n Obvious


It took almost 12 years to get the Super Soaker Water Gun to market after it's invention, 7 years after the toy company decided to produce it.

As mentioned elsewhere it takes a while to get factories built, production capable parts designed, machines designed and then built to manufacture the parts of the product (for most complex items the machines that make the parts have to be custom designed and manufactured first), quality control systems have to be built into the manufacturing process ... etc. etc..

I can see YOU have never been involved in trying to bring even a simple product that required custom manufacturing through it's development from the lab to the market. Please stay in your simple W-2 job whatever it is ... the real world of product design and manufacturing is way above your pay grade.

As for the product itself ... I foresee some serious difficulties in getting that battery from the lab to actually coming off the manufacturing floor with the quality control that is required of a product that is trying to contain within each unit the power of about 100 sticks of dynamite
Dr. Daniel Jackson, SG1
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09/05/2020 04:56 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
First, some context, lithium metal batteries are commercially available and have been for some time. It's just that in their present form they aren't rechargeable.

So this breakthrough is really about 'safe' re-charging and most likely involves coating the LI metal electrode to prevent dendrite formation (because that's the problem).

Several other companies have announced this same "breakthrough".

Lastly, even if this company or any of the others have actually achieved something that lives up to the claims, it only improves specific energy (energy/unit mass) not energy density (energy/volume).

Therefore, ironically, this advance actually is a needed improvement for aerial applications (think EV drones and planes) rather than ground transport.

Even Elon Musk has stated the battery industry is the worst industry for making misleading/false claims.
CK Dexter Haven

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09/05/2020 04:57 PM
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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
IPO Scam billgates
 Quoting: Phillip J. Fry


Pump N Dump
Billxam, ABATE, AWHA

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09/05/2020 05:03 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
So, been working on it for 10 years... And it will be 5 more before it is available.

Hmmmm.... it’s a battery. A fucking battery. Why can’t it be manufactured in a form that can replace any other battery and be on the market in 12 months?

Either they have not really figured it out, other than in a test tube but not in a practicable format and need 5 more years to figure it out... or they are totally full of shit.
 Quoting: Cap’n Obvious


You don't just announce a product and go to market with it.

So they have a prototype. However, the way R&D works is you have to do long term testing and refine the manufacturing process.

The first step in R&D, which I assume they've done in order to make the announcement is to run the product through various tests to find out the viability of the product.

The second phase would be to use it in a product - in this case an EV testbed - to test the long term charging/drain cycles to establish the lifecycle of the product.

I would assume that VW has agreed to buy up the entire production run for the first real world generation of the batteries to lock everyone else out of the market. They would also be working on the R&D with them as well. I'd be willing to wager that there's a few VWs out there right now with the prototypes running around.
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09/05/2020 05:04 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Y’all see this battery made from radioactive graphite enclosed in diamond? Never needs charging. Large apps 5 years away.

Thread: You All Ever Heard Of This New Tech? Self Charging Batteries
Jlee33

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09/05/2020 05:15 PM

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Re: Volkswagen announces a breakthrough in Lithium Batteries and is poised to outdo Tesla
Vw make some of the best vehicles on the planet... I love the customised T6. 1 Van's. Low riders. Air suspension... I know that VW will make epic electric vehicles. Truth is. They already do make excellent electric vehicles. I personally rate them above Tesla.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79346132


Don't forget .... Bugatti
Made by VW
Jlee33





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