I found a site before and have not been able to find it again. It was based on some Scientology stuff - but it listed various universes that have been created including a 'mud universe', yikes! what other horrors may be out there? in the Scientology way of viewing the subject, these would all be universes that are simply persistent mock ups that can be experienced by others - and can be traps for others. That we have lived a very very long time - quadrillions of years? who knows but over those vast vast stretches of time, the spirit (thetan) lost his power and fell prey to illusions.