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| 02:20 AM | ||
| Users Online Now: 1,590 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 107,187 | |
| Pageviews Today: 211,963 | Threads Today: 120 | Posts Today: 1,659 |
| 02:20 AM | ||
So I talked to a muffler shop owner yesterday while my car was on the lift | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80319674  United States05/05/2021 05:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: rccola Did you ever remove exhaust manifold bolts from the heads of Ford FE engines? 352,360,390 v/8s from the 60s and 70s The secret there is two things really, heat them to red hot with a torch before trying to remove them and use a socket especially designed for removing rounded or rusted nuts. You should also give it a liberal dose of penetrating oil AFTER it cools off and let it sit overnight. BE PATIENT. What this does is causes the bolt (or stud) to expand enough to break the rust free from the cast iron head , and it gives the penetrating oil a gap to go into in by something called capillary action. The bitch can be when you break off a stud in the head by trying to remove a rusted on nut (and they are always rusted on), but if you get them red hot and let them cool before you try to get them out they will come off pretty easy. studs can be removed by the same technique once you get the manifold off, if you need to replace them. You'll need a GOOD set of vice grips for this "procedure". Heat the area around the stud to expand the metal and you must have a feel for the stud turning or twisting... You mean try to expand the threaded hole by heating the cast iron head around the bolt. I see.  Good luck. |
BRIEF
 User ID: 79662918 United States05/05/2021 05:59 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Show me anyone that's fit anymore lol does that include you? Nope. My grandkids keep me in shape...The four-year-old boy rides a two wheel bike and I have always rode bikes...so we ride the trails and parks every week... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.  |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/05/2021 06:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: rccola Did you ever remove exhaust manifold bolts from the heads of Ford FE engines? 352,360,390 v/8s from the 60s and 70s The secret there is two things really, heat them to red hot with a torch before trying to remove them and use a socket especially designed for removing rounded or rusted nuts. You should also give it a liberal dose of penetrating oil AFTER it cools off and let it sit overnight. BE PATIENT. What this does is causes the bolt (or stud) to expand enough to break the rust free from the cast iron head , and it gives the penetrating oil a gap to go into in by something called capillary action. The bitch can be when you break off a stud in the head by trying to remove a rusted on nut (and they are always rusted on), but if you get them red hot and let them cool before you try to get them out they will come off pretty easy. studs can be removed by the same technique once you get the manifold off, if you need to replace them. You'll need a GOOD set of vice grips for this "procedure". No oil and no cooling, extract red hot! Heat the area around the stud to expand the metal and you must have a feel for the stud turning or twisting... Huh huh. If you try to wrench a bolt out while it's really hot it will twist off every fuckin time because the steel is much weaker while above 1000 degrees hot. .The idea is it EXPANDS while it's hot, which breaks the rust bond between the head and the bolt. This bond can be like it's welded in. The bolt then contracts when it cools down. When it cools down it will be much stronger than while hot. Follow my instructions and you wont have to have it drilled out, ever. You don't have the touch... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/05/2021 06:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80319674 The secret there is two things really, heat them to red hot with a torch before trying to remove them and use a socket especially designed for removing rounded or rusted nuts. You should also give it a liberal dose of penetrating oil AFTER it cools off and let it sit overnight. BE PATIENT. What this does is causes the bolt (or stud) to expand enough to break the rust free from the cast iron head , and it gives the penetrating oil a gap to go into in by something called capillary action. The bitch can be when you break off a stud in the head by trying to remove a rusted on nut (and they are always rusted on), but if you get them red hot and let them cool before you try to get them out they will come off pretty easy. studs can be removed by the same technique once you get the manifold off, if you need to replace them. You'll need a GOOD set of vice grips for this "procedure". Heat the area around the stud to expand the metal and you must have a feel for the stud turning or twisting... You mean try to expand the threaded hole by heating the cast iron head around the bolt. I see. Good luck. I've done it for nearly 30 years and I never drill...you just have to know heat distribution and know your own strength, don't be a Neanderthal...it takes a gentle touch when everything is soft... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80319674 United States05/05/2021 06:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80319674 The secret there is two things really, heat them to red hot with a torch before trying to remove them and use a socket especially designed for removing rounded or rusted nuts. You should also give it a liberal dose of penetrating oil AFTER it cools off and let it sit overnight. BE PATIENT. What this does is causes the bolt (or stud) to expand enough to break the rust free from the cast iron head , and it gives the penetrating oil a gap to go into in by something called capillary action. The bitch can be when you break off a stud in the head by trying to remove a rusted on nut (and they are always rusted on), but if you get them red hot and let them cool before you try to get them out they will come off pretty easy. studs can be removed by the same technique once you get the manifold off, if you need to replace them. You'll need a GOOD set of vice grips for this "procedure". No oil and no cooling, extract red hot! Heat the area around the stud to expand the metal and you must have a feel for the stud turning or twisting... Huh huh. If you try to wrench a bolt out while it's really hot it will twist off every fuckin time because the steel is much weaker while above 1000 degrees hot. .The idea is it EXPANDS while it's hot, which breaks the rust bond between the head and the bolt. This bond can be like it's welded in. The bolt then contracts when it cools down. When it cools down it will be much stronger than while hot. Follow my instructions and you wont have to have it drilled out, ever. You don't have the touch... And you sound like a dumbass that doesn't understand the basics. Cast iron is chosen as a material for heads for two reasons, it's easy and cheap to cast, and it disperses heat evenly throughout the structure efficiently. This is what keeps valve seats from burning out and combustion chambers from eroding away. Trying to heat a localized area may cause uneven expansion and crack the head too. You dont heat the head, you heat the bolt. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80319674 United States05/05/2021 06:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| TN_Dan
User ID: 3354388 United States05/05/2021 06:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I am contemplating quitting my IT job and going to work in a muffler shop, at least my work will have some meaning. Quoting: CharlieFoxtrot I hear that kind of work is exhausting... I saw 2 overweight old dudes getting it done.   Flew right over. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 79094956 05/05/2021 06:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79094956 So build a shop in the sticks, away from primary income areas, thats your advice? You dont know the first thing about having a successful business. Rule 1, location. Yea i can build a shop in the middle of nowhere, but who is going to bring me their car? Most successful shops are in the middle of town in high traffic areas. Yep, a half mile out of town on the main highway IDIOT A half a mile from what town? Bumfucksville? Population 25? You arent going to find land suitable for auto use within close proximity to a booming city. Even if you did cities are large, half a mile north is still further than staying in city limits or being in the south part of town. Whatever you say, shit for brains  Oh wow great retort genius. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80315353  Australia05/05/2021 06:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Exhaust work is an art form. Sure you will have the gravy jobs (just replacing the muffler or cats which become routine and tedious) but most of those are modular now and are bolt-in, making things much easier for the most part. Custom exhaust jobs will be the relief valve. Learn about scavenging. It is fulfilling work and welding skills will always be needed. H-pipes, x-pipes, resonators, muffler placement in relation to desired tone and/or volume... yeah. Quoting: ZOOM OUT Edit: forgot about turbo plumbing. well, on that, ive just restored the gearbox of my bmw r1150rt its begging for a turbo... do i need to put low copression pistons, or shorten the conrods or just play with low boost? or dont do it silly idea |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/05/2021 06:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: BRIEF No oil and no cooling, extract red hot! Heat the area around the stud to expand the metal and you must have a feel for the stud turning or twisting... Huh huh. If you try to wrench a bolt out while it's really hot it will twist off every fuckin time because the steel is much weaker while above 1000 degrees hot. .The idea is it EXPANDS while it's hot, which breaks the rust bond between the head and the bolt. This bond can be like it's welded in. The bolt then contracts when it cools down. When it cools down it will be much stronger than while hot. Follow my instructions and you wont have to have it drilled out, ever. You don't have the touch... And you sound like a dumbass that doesn't understand the basics. Cast iron is chosen as a material for heads for two reasons, it's easy and cheap to cast, and it disperses heat evenly throughout the structure efficiently. This is what keeps valve seats from burning out and combustion chambers from eroding away. Trying to heat a localized area may cause uneven expansion and crack the head too. You dont heat the head, you heat the bolt. My experience to your theory lol I understand what you are saying, but you do not get it... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 74901497 United States05/05/2021 06:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80319674 There are losers in every line of work, usually because they're not any good or dont have any fuckin brains.  First of all, you dont RENT a shop, you build one, on your own fuckin land in a location that is not to hard to find or get to, and you pay off your debts as soon as you are able to financially even if you have to scrimp. This cuts down on INTEREST, which is often 30 percent of any kind of business development THEN, you actually work yourself. You are there in the shop ramrodding anyone you hire and doing the hardest and most profitable jobs YOURSELF, and you pay employees based on their ability TO MAKE YOU MONEY Mkay?. You dont have to be a certified public accountant to run a business either, you just need to know some old alcoholic who hates the government and is good with numbers Land has to be zoned for commercial automotive use. You dont know much do you? Where I live in East Texas you can build a fuckin moat with crocodiles and poisonous snakes in it around your house if you want to. I wouldn't live in a place where you have to operate in some "zone". Basically if you're not within the boundaries of an incorporated municipality you can put any business you want to, anywhere you want to. And if you have any problems you can always loosen up their thinking by hiring a combination lawyer/hit man. So build a shop in the sticks, away from primary income areas, thats your advice? You dont know the first thing about having a successful business. Rule 1, location. Yea i can build a shop in the middle of nowhere, but who is going to bring me their car? Most successful shops are in the middle of town in high traffic areas. He said east Texas, moran. No zoning in Houston,Texas. And that's the only large city in east Texas. |
| •Scott•
User ID: 20101570 United States05/05/2021 06:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll tell you the quickest way to get ripped off my a mechanic. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80319674 Look down your nose at him. Generally speaking mechanics and mechanically inclined people are well above average intelligence and do what they do because they enjoy doing it. There are hundreds of thousands of people who do it just for the fun of it in this country. Despite what you might think, people can instantly sense when you are patronizing them or pretending to respect them. If you act like you suspect him of being dishonest, he's going to be dishonest with you. Every fuckin time, and you'll never feel the shaft going in. Yeah sure.... Most mechanics in the auto repair business are outright crooks and just as many are thieving too. The rest are hacks that are totally incompetent.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78726507 United States05/05/2021 06:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Exhaust work is an art form. Sure you will have the gravy jobs (just replacing the muffler or cats which become routine and tedious) but most of those are modular now and are bolt-in, making things much easier for the most part. Custom exhaust jobs will be the relief valve. Learn about scavenging. It is fulfilling work and welding skills will always be needed. H-pipes, x-pipes, resonators, muffler placement in relation to desired tone and/or volume... yeah. Quoting: ZOOM OUT Edit: forgot about turbo plumbing. Yes, it's absolutely an art...I custom bent all of my pipes... Gaay  |
| Monty Python
User ID: 79683873 United States05/05/2021 09:26 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | nobody wants to work Quoting: CharlieFoxtrot he has work backed up the employees I saw were over 50 years old I am contemplating quitting my IT job and going to work in a muffler shop, at least my work will have some meaning. I heard that kind of work is exhausting... True, but you get plenty of brakes. Monty Python's Flying Circus |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/06/2021 05:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Exhaust work is an art form. Sure you will have the gravy jobs (just replacing the muffler or cats which become routine and tedious) but most of those are modular now and are bolt-in, making things much easier for the most part. Custom exhaust jobs will be the relief valve. Learn about scavenging. It is fulfilling work and welding skills will always be needed. H-pipes, x-pipes, resonators, muffler placement in relation to desired tone and/or volume... yeah. Quoting: ZOOM OUT Edit: forgot about turbo plumbing. Yes, it's absolutely an art...I custom bent all of my pipes... Gaay There's a lot of queers coming out in this thread it seems...Please stay IN the closet! I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| JustinKGunther
User ID: 80303984  Canada05/06/2021 05:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If Tyrone, Juan or Sally "victim of misogyny" Caucasian decide to create a #diversitycrime moment you're ******. Tyrone, Juan and Sally can have all of my former jobs. I've figured it out. Have a nice day at work Tyrone, Juan and Sally. My people- infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. "Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan, I will now arise," says the Lord |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/06/2021 05:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It shouldn't be surprising that jobs typically worked by white men aren't being staffed. If you're a white man with no dependants you have been highly disencentivized from re-entering the wokeforce, since even a minor diversity crime could put you on the streets or worse. Quoting: JustinKGunther If Tyrone, Juan or Sally "victim of misogyny" Caucasian decide to create a #diversitycrime moment you're ******. Tyrone, Juan and Sally can have all of my former jobs. I've figured it out. Have a nice day at work Tyrone, Juan and Sally. Of a person needs an incentive to work, it's likely already too late for them. Motivation comes from within, not from government... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| JustinKGunther
User ID: 80303984 Canada05/06/2021 05:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You aren't convincing anybody who spent the vast majority of their adult life working but still somehow found themselves recently homeless. I have all kinds of motivation and am on my way to self-sufficiency once again. Last Edited by JustinKGunther on 05/06/2021 05:37 AM My people- infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. "Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan, I will now arise," says the Lord |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80073096 United States05/06/2021 05:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/06/2021 05:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You aren't convincing anybody who spent the vast majority of their adult life working but still somehow found themselves recently homeless. Quoting: JustinKGunther I have all kinds of motivation and am on my way to self-sufficiency once again. If you have maintained a job, yet still could not pay your bills, there's another issue at hand...It's difficult to deny yourself immediate gratification, but the act of denying yourself things that money can buy will strengthen you... Saving money for emergencies must become a priority...Make it the first thing you do, if you seem to run out of money before all the bills are paid...Pay yourself first! Last Edited by BRIEF on 05/06/2021 05:43 AM I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| JustinKGunther
User ID: 80303984 Canada05/06/2021 05:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I entered the workforce at age 12 turning wrenches in a junkyard/shop in the summers and delivering 100 papers 6 days a week during the school year probably starting at 15 or so. Nobody's calling me lazy and getting away with it :-). Last Edited by JustinKGunther on 05/06/2021 05:51 AM My people- infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths. "Because the poor are plundered, because the needy groan, I will now arise," says the Lord |
| BRIEF
User ID: 79662918 United States05/06/2021 05:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fair enough to say that money management has been a problem of mine in the past but since starting the journey of becoming an Excel power user my budgeting skills have become even madder than I am. Quoting: JustinKGunther I entered the workforce at age 12 turning wrenches in a junkyard/shop in the summers and delivering 100 papers 6 days a week during the school year probably starting at 15 or so. Nobody's calling me lazy and getting away with it :-). Sounds like my own experience, except I understood that my time is finite and valuable, so I saved money like crazy while always having cash to go out with friends...It honestly never occurred to me to ask my parents or anyone for anything...I did not even ask for haircuts or new clothes...I bought my own bikes, go-carts, motorcycles, and three wheelers...I had a garage full of toys, still do...But I have never ever needed a dollar I did not have in the bank with a NAME already given to it... Last Edited by BRIEF on 05/06/2021 06:01 AM I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| FightForGod!
User ID: 80146778 United States05/06/2021 06:00 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I need to build a set of Zoomies for my big block. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, |
| FightForGod!
User ID: 80146778 United States05/06/2021 06:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I build and weld my own exhaust. It's just pipe. Plan, measure, cut, weld. I usually band clamp the mufflers first to see if it's the sound I want. Not much skill to this. Building headers is where the skill is, especially symmetry. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 14616612 United States05/06/2021 11:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Nobody respects mechanics. Everyone wants it done now for free. Fuk working on cars and I am an expert with all the tools. No way everyone is a pain in the ass in those shops esp the bosses. ASSHOLES. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72553316  my car was leaking exhaust from the engine compartment. I had a mechanic check it out and he said an exhaust manifold had a crack in it. The cost to fix it could easily be $1000 or more.I decided i would learn how to do it myself. I spent 100s of hours watching how-to videos. When i was ready, i open the hood to inspect the manifold and what i found shocked me! The manifold was missing nuts on two of the studs. I replaced the nuts and the leak was sealed. I suppose the mechanic who replaced my engine a couple of years earilier did not tighten them properly. The mechanic who checked it out was incompetent or a liar - maybe both. So you are damned right! Nobody repects a fcuking mechanic! They are low IQ liars and thieves! Yea some are. But so are the people who made that phone or computer you are using. So are most doctors. The world is profit driven and thats the true issue. A good mechanic has a valuable skill that no machine or computer can replace. A computer can plug into a car and show the mechanic how things are functioning but it still takes an experienced human mind to unravel the information. And for those of you who insist mechanics are dumb monkeys, these days they have to basically be electronic engineers and computer IT techs just to diagnose all of the complex electrical systems of a modern car.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 14616612 United States05/06/2021 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll tell you the quickest way to get ripped off my a mechanic. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80319674 Look down your nose at him. Generally speaking mechanics and mechanically inclined people are well above average intelligence and do what they do because they enjoy doing it. There are hundreds of thousands of people who do it just for the fun of it in this country. Despite what you might think, people can instantly sense when you are patronizing them or pretending to respect them. If you act like you suspect him of being dishonest, he's going to be dishonest with you. Every fuckin time, and you'll never feel the shaft going in. Yeah sure.... Most mechanics in the auto repair business are outright crooks and just as many are thieving too. The rest are hacks that are totally incompetent.  he's right you know! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 79094956 05/06/2021 11:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It shouldn't be surprising that jobs typically worked by white men aren't being staffed. If you're a white man with no dependants you have been highly disencentivized from re-entering the wokeforce, since even a minor diversity crime could put you on the streets or worse. Quoting: JustinKGunther If Tyrone, Juan or Sally "victim of misogyny" Caucasian decide to create a #diversitycrime moment you're ******. Tyrone, Juan and Sally can have all of my former jobs. I've figured it out. Have a nice day at work Tyrone, Juan and Sally. Of a person needs an incentive to work, it's likely already too late for them. Motivation comes from within, not from government... i refuse to go back to work until this mask shit is over also im not getting the shot so there's that |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 79094956 05/06/2021 11:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fair enough to say that money management has been a problem of mine in the past but since starting the journey of becoming an Excel power user my budgeting skills have become even madder than I am. Quoting: JustinKGunther I entered the workforce at age 12 turning wrenches in a junkyard/shop in the summers and delivering 100 papers 6 days a week during the school year probably starting at 15 or so. Nobody's calling me lazy and getting away with it :-). Sounds like my own experience, except I understood that my time is finite and valuable, so I saved money like crazy while always having cash to go out with friends...It honestly never occurred to me to ask my parents or anyone for anything...I did not even ask for haircuts or new clothes...I bought my own bikes, go-carts, motorcycles, and three wheelers...I had a garage full of toys, still do...But I have never ever needed a dollar I did not have in the bank with a NAME already given to it... your own experience was you had a dad who cared and you took over his business my dad left when i was 2 and never gave a fuck no one taught me anything |
| •Scott•
User ID: 8848993 United States05/06/2021 11:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fair enough to say that money management has been a problem of mine in the past but since starting the journey of becoming an Excel power user my budgeting skills have become even madder than I am. Quoting: JustinKGunther I entered the workforce at age 12 turning wrenches in a junkyard/shop in the summers and delivering 100 papers 6 days a week during the school year probably starting at 15 or so. Nobody's calling me lazy and getting away with it :-). Sounds like my own experience, except I understood that my time is finite and valuable, so I saved money like crazy while always having cash to go out with friends...It honestly never occurred to me to ask my parents or anyone for anything...I did not even ask for haircuts or new clothes...I bought my own bikes, go-carts, motorcycles, and three wheelers...I had a garage full of toys, still do...But I have never ever needed a dollar I did not have in the bank with a NAME already given to it... your own experience was you had a dad who cared and you took over his business my dad left when i was 2 and never gave a fuck no one taught me anything It shows. So what have you learned? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 79094956 05/06/2021 11:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fair enough to say that money management has been a problem of mine in the past but since starting the journey of becoming an Excel power user my budgeting skills have become even madder than I am. Quoting: JustinKGunther I entered the workforce at age 12 turning wrenches in a junkyard/shop in the summers and delivering 100 papers 6 days a week during the school year probably starting at 15 or so. Nobody's calling me lazy and getting away with it :-). Sounds like my own experience, except I understood that my time is finite and valuable, so I saved money like crazy while always having cash to go out with friends...It honestly never occurred to me to ask my parents or anyone for anything...I did not even ask for haircuts or new clothes...I bought my own bikes, go-carts, motorcycles, and three wheelers...I had a garage full of toys, still do...But I have never ever needed a dollar I did not have in the bank with a NAME already given to it... your own experience was you had a dad who cared and you took over his business my dad left when i was 2 and never gave a fuck no one taught me anything It shows. So what have you learned? that you can get a government job and do little to no work for 20 years then retire and get paid for the rest of your life for nothing |
