Christianity or paganism?

Parrot.

Counterfeit.

Has anybody suggested Christians living according to the instructions in Romans:13 were so honest in their 'doings' that a standing army was not even needed, until attacked and then they were a very united arm will the peasants fully supporting their 'defensive wars'.

The list you provided seems to be how the Normans changed Roman Christians into the ones that were willing to take money from 'Slave Traders' to fight a war against honest Gentiles. (who believed in the OT and NT were written by GOD as a single story) The two reforms between 1300-1700 are important, as is the first invasion by the Normans.

What planet did you come from lolssssssss

I never said that romans invented the bible. But it's historical fact that anything written to be distributed HAD to be vetted by the Roman authorities. The scripture was not only vetted by Rome, but then again later by the English crown via king James.

Do these 9 parts tell an accurate history of Roman Christians? The perversions only came after the 'reforms'. Like their leader, there could be some tampering with how bad the RCC was compared to 'their opposition'.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
In 1501, at age 17, he entered the University of Erfurt, which he later described as a beerhouse and whorehouse.[18] He was made to wake at four every morning for what has been described as "a day of rote learning and often wearying spiritual exercises."[18] He received his master's degree in 1505.[19]

Luther had published his German translation of the New Testament in 1522, and he and his collaborators completed the translation of the Old Testament in 1534, when the whole Bible was published. He continued to work on refining the translation until the end of his life.[142] Others had previously translated the Bible into German, but Luther tailored his translation to his own doctrine.[143] Two of the earlier translations were the Mentelin Bible (1456)[144] and the Koberger Bible (1484).[145] There were as many as fourteen in High German, four in Low German, four in Dutch, and various other translations in other languages before the Bible of Luther.[146]

Last Edited by Wayfaring Stranger on 06/21/2021 10:06 PM

The book you cite (Atwill) claims that the Romans wrote the gospels. Or did you also not read the book you referenced?

But you also fail to realize that the gospels WERENT WRITTEN TO BE DISTRIBUTED. neither were pauls epistles. the were written and passed around by the followers of the way. they were never "distributed" in any official capacity. So Rome would likely not have even know they existed until LONG after there were 1000's of copies already in existence. These 1000's of previous copies PROVE beyond a shadow of any doubt, that rome didnt alter any of the text.

You are only about creating division and asserting your own egoic superiority. Nevertheless, that said, the book doesn't claim Roman wrote the gospels, but inserted and influenced them, as well as the teachings of Paul who for quite a while I became vehemently against. But now I understand through the letters, of the golden nuggets he provided, which was 180 degrees opposite of what Christianity teaches, thanks to rome

Nope. Wrong

The 'Swiss Guards have been in the Vatican for 500 years straight. If the 'crimes against the flock' began after they were in place (1500ish) then they are 'prison guards' rather than 'body guards' as they serve the Pope alone. That would be 5 'retired veterans' tops.

Your understanding of the history of the bible is obviously superficial. you really need to research more.

But i do have a clarifying question. when you say "Rome" are you simply referring to the catholic church? Because the bible was established LONG before Constantine, or Titus and we even have fragments dating back to the first century that prove the gospels are unaltered.

I cant believe that anyone would seriously hold to your position in the face of the literal physical evidence to the contrary.

Jesus started Christianity!! Not Rome. People followed the teachings of Jesus Christ as He is the God man and Rome persecuted them. The Apostles of Jesus Christ preached the good news of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Repent for the kingdom of God is upon you.

Rome has her paganism wrapped around Jesus and has a false gospel.

Christianity was not begun by Rome.

Rome persecuted Christians and fed them lions for nearly 300 years after Jesus ascended.

Yup.

Could even say Christianity always was because Jesus , the Word , always was.

The etymology of the word 'Christian' simply didn't come about until Antioch.

Will you please get over yourself


When I say Rome, I'm referring to the Nicene law,that which declare which writings would be included, and those that would not, and by this conclave forever determine the fate of millions of souls through their programmed indoctrination.

If you want to continue with discussion, please stop with condescending remarks.

False! Fake news!

The council of Nicene did NOT declare what writings would be included in the Bible. The compilation had already been more or less agreed upon for at least 150 years BEFORE the Council of Nicene.

The twenty canons of the church LAW , traditionalism's , and HOW they would compile the OT and NT are among the things the council of Nicene discussed. But the books themselves were ALREADY AGREED UPON.



There is a meme going around on Facebook that says the Council of Nicaea decided which books could be in the Bible in 325 AD. Supposedly Emperor Constantine manipulated the Council to pick the books that would further his political agendas. Regardless of what one thinks about the Bible or Christianity, this is simply historically inaccurate. There is no evidence that the Council ever discussed this issue. The philosopher Voltaire started this false idea in the 18th century based on a 9th century legend that all scholars agree is spurious. (In the legend, all the possible biblical books were put on a table and the false books simply fell off the table all by themselves leaving the biblical books we have today still on the table. No credible scholar, Christian or otherwise, believes this can be traced back to the 4th century or that it has any historical value.) Voltaire’s hatred of Christianity led him to engage in a 18th century version of “fake news.”

[link to curtsite.wordpress.com (secure)]



There seem to be a number of legends about the First Council of Nicaea (325AD) in circulation on the internet, presented as fact. Some people seem to think that the council, which was the first council of all the Bishops of the Christian Church, either invented the New Testament, or edited it to remove references to reincarnation (or whatever) or burned large numbers of heretical works, or whatever. This is not the case.

From these there appears almost no evidence that the council of Nicaea made any pronouncements on which books go in the Bible, with the ambivalent exception of Jerome, or about the destruction of heretical writings, or reincarnation.

[link to www.tertullian.org (secure)]

Last Edited by This is my GLP on 06/21/2021 10:47 PM

So, you need someone to tell you what you are to believe, else you be damned?

This is why i asked the clarifying question. Many people believe the popular narrative that he council of Nicea was were the bible was determined. the is patently false. it wasnt even discussed at the meeting. the bible was LONG established prior to Nicea. the council of nicea never even discussed what books to include.

Rome had no say on the bible.

Jesus Christ tells me who I am. ~

The only way to salvation is through Him.

Otherwise I'd just be letting the world tell me who I am , based on my past 'experiences' and conforming to my surroundings , while under the illusion it's my own will deciding.

Source ?

That's awesome ! So how do you live and share his teachings..the world needs this now

True , the world does need Him now , more than ever before.

And I'm not a teacher , Jesus is the teacher. I merely try to point people to Him. ~

Unfortunately , many people only want to believe the parts of what Jesus spoke that make them 'feel good' while discarding the rest , when convenient.

And they want to make Him out to be lesser than He is , like another Buddha or Vishnu , rather than the only begotten Son of God , the Word and God in the flesh.

If someone doesn't believe IN Jesus that He is the Word made flesh , then doesn't really matter how much of what He commanded they keep.

He is the Truth and the Way - salvation is only possible through Jesus Christ. ~

Last Edited by This is my GLP on 06/21/2021 11:29 PM

show me where it says they discussed what books to include in the bible?

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

they discussed doctrine. nothing to do with books of the bible.

also note: in order to discuss doctrine you must previously agree on what the bible actually is. this was done long before nicea

Last Edited by mr dull socks on 06/21/2021 11:37 PM

amen

First let’s start with your definition of Christianity. Rome didn’t create Christianity, they created a false version of Christianity, weaving Pagan practices and multiple deity worship into their false religion. 1st Century “Christians”, followers of Jesus Christ were only called “Christians” because it was used as a derogatory term to describe them. Very much like words such as the “N” word or any other racial slur is used today. The problem that Constantine faced was that these “Christians” were growing very fast, and posing a threat to not only Rome, but to the Pagan religions that the Romans were worshipping at the time. So in his “infinite” wisdom to put at rest what he believed would be an uprising he created a Christianity that would be acceptable to both the “Christians” and the “Pagans” effectively ending what was essentially infighting in his kingdom between the two factions. True Christianity goes much further back in time than the Roman Empire. Pagans like to say that, “our religion is the oldest because we were around before the Bible or even Jesus walked the earth.” Which if you choose to believe that, that is your business, however, if the Bible be true, ( I personally believe that it is), then real true worship of the “One True God”, the one who sent his only begotten son to pay for the sins of the world, began with the first two humans Adam and Eve.

So throughout history there has been a struggle between the “Almighty Creator” and some of his more powerful “Creations”. We are talking about Lucifer, aka Satan and his followers the “Fallen Angels”. Now, the ultimate goal of the devil, Satan/Lucifer is to be worshipped not just only like his “Creator” Yahweh/ Yahova/ Jehova, but above him. Even to sit upon his holy throne. So, you try to tell me and others like me the truth about “Christianity”, let me impart some truth about your Pagan religion. So the “fallen angels” created or in fact were many of the “Ancient Gods” that Pagans worship. Here’s the kicker though, every single one of them hates you because your human. The angels that fell, fell because they wanted to mate with women, and the Bible says that not only did they want to, they did. It doesn’t say, that they asked either, it’s says that “they took all whom they chose and married them.” In other words they decided they wanted a woman, and whether she wanted them or not, they took her, and did what they wanted to, to her. So much for the Pagan gods respecting women. Out of that “Union” came the giants, the “Nephillim”, the “sons of the gods”. The “Nephillim” were wicked, and evil, and no mortal man could fight them in single combat. Not, without aid from Yahweh at any rate. David did face one centuries after all of this and used a rock from a sling to get the job done, and the Bible does say that was only because God was with him….so there is that. At any rate I’m getting side tracked. So you’ve got all the “Pagan Gods”, and their “Vile Offspring” running around raping all the women, enslaving humanity at their whim basically, and finally God says he’s had about enough of their shit. He decides to wipe the slate clean, floods the earth and kills all the “Nephillim”, and humans that we’re either worshipping them, or had become like them. Noah and his family we’re the only survivors of that “Apocalypse”.

Now, it’s not clear how the “Nephillim” came back, but they did. Either there was a second incursion by the “fallen angels” or one the Noah’s daughter-in-laws had a recessive gene and through her and her husband the “Giants” returned. This is where a lot of people have their first problem with the “God of the Bible”, because they always ask, “Well what about where your god tells the Israelites to kill everyone, the men, the women, the children, even the old people? You say he’s love!” Yep, I sure do. Because what you have to understand is that those cultures, those civilizations, were not human beings. They were abominations. Creatures that did not belong on this Earth. They were, the descendants of the Nephillim. Not human. Hybrid, half human, half angelic being. Not natural. That’s, who you worship as a Pagan, dead, half-human, half angelic beings, or their original parents the fallen angels. Who as I’ve said before literally hate you, simply because your human.

Now, to some your other points….

1. They believed that God was in the heart not in some stone temple: ok, then why all the temples and idols to Zeus, Aries, Ishtar, etc? All…pagan gods, with stone temples.

2.They did not accept costumes but dressed humbly: this is hardly accurate, as many pagan priests, and priestesses, were arrayed in fine linens, and jewels. Many did wear costumes, and masks as a matter of fact.

3. They had no regard for the power structure of the church: if you mean the “Christian” church you would be correct. However, they ALL wanted to be at the top of the power structure of their Church. You were the the one that got the virgins, chose who was to sacrificed, and was treated like royalty.

4. They believed that if God can be approached through ones heart, why the need for priests, and rabbi’s? Now days we can include pastors.: this isn’t true either. Many pagan religions, in fact all of them have priests and priestesses that are the gate keepers to their gods.

5. They were totally dedicated to non-violence in all its forms. Including animals: ok…explain the Mayans then. Explain the animal sacrifices of other Pagan religions. Do you not think that killing innocent people so that you’ll a good crop this year isn’t violence? Or that sacrificing an animal you had to kill isn’t violence? Well, if killing animals and murdering children isn’t violent, you’ll have to explain to me what is violent then because I apparently don’t know.

6. They respected and even revered women, believing in equality of the sexes.: No, they didn’t. That’s why they sacrificed female virgins, because they respected and revered them so much. In some paganistic rituals passing a woman around between many men was just another Saturday night. So much for respecting women. They used them, and when they were done with them they got rid of them.

7. They believed in purity, chastity, and humility.: no they didn’t. The Pagan goddess Ishtar, the goddess of sex and fertility, she was a whore. Those that followed her were far from chaste, and pure. Witchcraft, is Paganism and there are many, many spells that involve sex, to make them work. Sometimes referred to as “sex magic”, I’m sure you’ve heard of it. That doesn’t exactly make you, chaste, pure and humble.

Just my .02 cents, but that’s how I see it.

It's obvious that there is much debate over how the bible as given to us came to be. I can't authoritatively prove to you exactly how it happened, and you can't prove to me.

When I say "Rome" I am indeed referring to the Vatican, that said, the Vatican was an extension of Rome which was hell bent on conquering the world...

So, I concede that the bible as we have it today was not decided by the council of nicea but rather was compiled and decided over the centuries BY THE VATICAN

[link to uscatholic.org (secure)]

Good stuff, but you completely missed my point. We agree on far more than we disagree. You are lumping the specific group of people i am referring to...into a huge bucket of people that were not romanized Christians. I'm referring to the "Cathars"... They did not practice what you are assuming they did.

They were as an earlier poster said, uber Christians... more in line with the followers of the Way, more in line with the Essenes, from which sect Yahshua learned, trained and taught

Oh…my bad. I misunderstood. I thought you were in support of paganism. My bad. I’ll just be quiet now. Lol!

Hahaha no worries! But do you see where I'm going with this? How goodly, godly people were annihilated because they refused to be assimilated into the Roman narrative of religiosity

Christians do not keep the 10 Commandments so staying pagan by definition duh