The Folly of Fiscal Stimulus Packages | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 336627 United States 01/18/2008 01:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Geode
User ID: 340118 United States 01/18/2008 02:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And just as importantly, the covert tax of greater inflation which robs each of us through the loss of value of everything we own and our savings/life insurance/retirement plans/IRA accounts/Capital "gains"(where the increased price has the same or less actual value) etc., etc. To make matters worse they bump us up to the next tax level, and thus tax us an ever higher percentage on our less valuable earnings!!! Evil dudes and dudettes there in D.C., hoping to buy our votes with our own money. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 6907 United States 01/18/2008 03:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 357430 France 01/18/2008 03:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | read here : Surviving The Greatest Financial Crash Ever Thread: ***SURVIVING THE GREATEST FINANCIAL CRASH EVER *** . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 93449 United States 01/18/2008 07:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
BelieveYouMe
User ID: 173267 United States 01/18/2008 08:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 184760 United States 01/18/2008 08:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Jomama
User ID: 357474 United States 01/18/2008 08:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bernanke (Fed Chairman) may just issue credit cards to the poor, stoked with Fed digits, so they can all live thru what's coming. 'course he'd hafta go thru congress. They'll oblige as they're the something-for-nothing boyz. to herd or not to herd [link to djomama.blogspot.com] |
BelieveYouMe
User ID: 173267 United States 01/18/2008 08:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | CHina doesn't send their products over here..we buy them cause they are cheaper. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 184760No there not cheaper they are cheap and in the long run they end up costing us more. The long run son. note: just because there is no such thing as "the long run" that doesn't mean China is the answer. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 322602 United States 01/18/2008 10:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Follower of the Way
User ID: 335844 United States 01/18/2008 10:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I work for a Native American company and report to a tribe of Native Americans. They are like the board of directions. They report to the Tribal Council. The council is elected by the Natives, much like secular elections. The Council members get special rewards for their position, so they try to retain it for as long as possible. Each election cycle, they go around promising money to the Natives in order to be elected again. We all know many Natives are poor and go for it. The problem is, there is not much money anymore to give out. If they were smart, they'd create their own currency, but since they use dollars, there is only so much to go around. My company makes much money and the Tribal Council tries to take the profit away from the company to hand out to keep their promise. Without the profit, the company cannot grow and increase jobs for the natives. So it's funny how it mimics what happens in the secular America. My whole point is. Politicians bribe the public into voting for them. Whether it's good for the system or not. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 39024 United States 01/18/2008 11:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6907We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic for that very reason and others [link to deoxy.org] |
Kanandaa
User ID: 344118 Canada 01/18/2008 12:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | With a possible recession looming, they insist the federal government needs to provide a stimulus to the economy by spending or rebating money it doesn't have. That will put more cash in the pockets of consumers, who will then spend it, boosting the fortunes of companies and their employees and staving off a downturn. Or so the thinking goes. Quoting: astrolabe 357362So the thinking goes, for those thinking within the confines of a broken system. They want to give People a whole bunch of money? Not that this isn't a step in the right direction, but let's remember two key things here: 1) there would be no real debt in doing so, only alleged debt which lacks a)full disclosure about how the money was made (accounting entry), and b)fair and equal consideration (no real value because of how it was made); 2) 75-85% of that money would end up right back into the governments hands through taxation (how many corporations do goods pass through, and how many corporations don't pass on the cost of taxes to the final consumer). And yeah, the whole buying votes thing should be #3. There is still potential for such a program to help People, keeping their houses until NESARA system changes come about being one example, so as always, let's see what walk comes from this talk. I, for One, would still love to see less talk about money and more talk/action about what is really important right now, the restitution of the constitution/Rule of Law and the removal of corrupted politicians. Money isn't money until these changes happen, it is more debt that We are paying to use (debt on debt, the reason interest in a fiat currency system ensures its doom). Politicians helped start the Fed Res/Bank of Canada, politicians will go down with it if they continue to be fools by not supporting the changes that are happening. Great work everyone, full steam ahead. Namaste. In Service To And As Our Highest Light, Love And Law, Thank You God, Much Love And Blessings To All That Is, :D Danny/Kanandaa |
astrolabe User ID: 357627 Netherlands 01/18/2008 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bernanke (Fed Chairman) may just issue credit cards to Quoting: Jomamathe poor, stoked with Fed digits, so they can all live thru what's coming. 'course he'd hafta go thru congress. They'll oblige as they're the something-for-nothing boyz. Oh Lord, Jomama... this sounds like a hybrid of NESARA and Franklin Roosevelt. Hyper-inflation here we come. Wasayo |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 309282 United States 01/18/2008 01:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 39024 United States 01/18/2008 02:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 330782 United States 01/18/2008 02:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 39024We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Republic for that very reason and others [link to deoxy.org] Technically its a Constitutional Republic. It can hardly be called a democracy as it is a very limited democracy. Federally speaking at the Federal Level the democracy only exists between the 535 members of Congress. 535 representing over 300 Million US Citizens. Definitely NOT a Democracy. But we don't want a democracy anyways as a full democracy is exactly the same as Mob Rule. At the Several States level that is the 50 States, they too are Constitutional Republics, and the only democracy normally practiced in them is between the members of their respective State Legislatures. At the County level, look for democracy and you will find it most of the time only among the County Board of Supervisors or whatever the County government is called. At the City Level look for democracy and you will find it normally only among the members of the City Councils. It is very rare that there is a public referendum, (which is yet not a full democracy, as only some of the people can vote anyways). There is as a result very little democracy at any level of government within the USA. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 330782 United States 01/18/2008 03:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The problem is that we have a case of Over Stimulation as it is, much as a drug addict constantly increasing the amount of drug they have to use to acheive the same level of "high". Another metaphor would be a blood tranfusion into a body that is bleeding out all over the place at the same time you are trying to pump new blood into it. Sometimes you just have to let the patient die. We need to return to the basis of the type of Economy laid down by the US Constitution, where the Congress regulates the value of all foreign currency, and coins its own money. The problem is that the USA has been through a considerable number of Bankrupcies, some Chapter 13, some Chapter 11, but is right now trying to stave off a Chapter 7 Bankrupcy. Any more "stimulation" of the economy by the Fed will drive the USA into hyperinflation. Which will destroy the very fabric of the American economy and bring the rest of the world down with it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 330782 United States 01/18/2008 03:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
wimperindog User ID: 18839 United States 01/18/2008 03:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 1. TPTB know that EVERYONE is sick and tired of hearing the career politicians' campaign promises. We need something else to hear and talk about. 2. This "chicken in every pot" theory may have bleed-over effect for the coming election. The republicans can say they gave us all $$, hence the sheeple will vote republican. 3. TPTB need to act AS IF they know what to do in the current crisis. Of course they don't, but that's of little consequence. It's the 'AS IF' that counts. (They learned this lesson by way of busch reading a book about goats, upside down, as our country was being 'attacked.') 4. While they're printing up all that big money to hand out to all us little peons, they can easily print up zillions more for themselves...who's counting? 5. It gives the career politicians something else to haggle over in Congress. Of course they will never come to an agreement, but everyone becomes embroiled in watching who said what, when, and how. Hopefully the populace (little peons) will forget about the reason they're haggling. I'm sure there are many other reasons. Care to add your guesses? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 258525 United States 01/18/2008 03:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Here is what I would like to see happen. The government would allow you to withdraw money from your 401K or IRA to pay off/down your home mortguage. No taxes, no penalty no nothing. This may or may not help those who are close to forclosure, but would possibly help many keep there homes if things get really bad. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 301703 Canada 01/18/2008 03:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
The OP
User ID: 357214 Bolivia 01/18/2008 05:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | exactly this is a move of desperation. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 336627Sounds a little more like a "move to communism" Seriously this is the sort of thing a socialist government would do, you Americans are so famous for your left-phobia yet the government does this! Awesome! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 330782 United States 01/18/2008 05:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
D.Smith User ID: 357567 United States 01/18/2008 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Pretending that the 'market' and 'capitalism' uncontrolled and unfettered will keep us great WE were told there was not a need to control greed that it was good for us to consume, and that as long as we continued to consume everything would be fine. Capitalism has no country, no conscience, no since of dignity, no since of purpose, no since of fairness or honesty. That is the job of human beings, who were suppose to insure capitalism and the market adhered to order and remained under control of the common welfare, it was our job not to allow it to fall in to the hands of the privileged few, we have failed, instead we have been ignorant and abdicated our duties. Now huge companies are controlling the world, making laws to protect the rights of corporations, rights that should have only been given to human beings, making us second class citizens to entities that or beholding to no vote, no country, no government entity. |
D.Smith User ID: 357567 United States 01/18/2008 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | WE have come to believe ourselves entitled to wealth and prosperity. Pretending that the 'market' and 'capitalism' uncontrolled and unfettered will keep us great WE were told there was not a need to control greed that it was good for us to consume, and that as long as we continued to consume everything would be fine. Capitalism has no country, no conscience, no since of dignity, no since of purpose, no since of fairness or honesty. That is the job of human beings, who were suppose to insure capitalism and the market adhered to order and remained under control of the common welfare, it was our job not to allow it to fall in to the hands of the privileged few, we have failed, instead we have been ignorant and abdicated our duties. Now huge companies are controlling the world, making laws to protect the rights of corporations, rights that should have only been given to human beings, making us second class citizens to entities that or beholding to no vote, no country, no government entity. |
D.Smith User ID: 357567 United States 01/18/2008 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | WE have come to believe ourselves entitled to wealth and prosperity. Pretending that the 'market' and 'capitalism' uncontrolled and unfettered will keep us great WE were told there was not a need to control greed that it was good for us to consume, and that as long as we continued to consume everything would be fine. Capitalism has no country, no conscience, no since of dignity, no since of purpose, no since of fairness or honesty. That is the job of human beings, who were suppose to insure capitalism and the market adhered to order and remained under control of the common welfare, it was our job not to allow it to fall in to the hands of the privileged few, we have failed, instead we have been ignorant and abdicated our duties. Now huge companies are controlling the world, making laws to protect the rights of corporations, rights that should have only been given to human beings, making us second class citizens to entities that or beholding to no vote, no country, no government entity. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18243 United States 01/18/2008 05:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 338225 United States 01/18/2008 06:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 357765 United States 01/18/2008 06:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |