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Verdict watch now in Arbery case.

 
nacho daddy

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11/23/2021 01:05 PM

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Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
I know this is not drawing the attention that Rittenhouse did, but this case has the potential to spark wide reaching riots due to the racial issue.

Anyway, the jury is in deliberations.


Last Edited by Templar Knight on 11/24/2021 01:33 PM
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:11 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Guilty on all counts is the ONLY logical verdict that can be reached here.

If you fear for your life, call the cops.
You don't mount a posse of you and your boys all bearing shotguns and chase and almost run over a guy and then try to claim self defense when he's the one defending himself again you.

"Fists are weapons!"

That means anyone can be shot at any time for having hands.
AR 15-SPECIALIST
Admit it! We’re Fucked

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11/23/2021 01:16 PM

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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
TRUMPS FAULT
Linkin
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11/23/2021 01:20 PM

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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:30 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


Videotaping your friends commit murder when you're the one that initiated the chase that led to it makes YOU just as responsible for it happening.

Had he kept his mouth shut and and not egg'd on the 2 inbreds to do it none of this would have happened.
Wingnut1234
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11/23/2021 01:31 PM

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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Did they show the video where homeboy grabbed the shotgun by the barrel?

Where you come from is gone.
Where you thought you were going to, Wernt never there.
And where you are ain't no good, unless you can get away from it
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:35 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Did they show the video where homeboy grabbed the shotgun by the barrel?

 Quoting: Wingnut1234


He was defending himself against aggressors that were 2 trucks in and 3 shotguns deep.

What would you have done if one of them had already tried to run you over and now one is holding a shotgun to you?

YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE when YOU ARE THE PERSON THAT CHASED DOWN THE SITUATION.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:37 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
No fuck you MSM circle points jerks.
You only care because YOU ARE SCARED OF KARMA.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:39 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
No fuck you MSM circle points jerks.
You only care because YOU ARE SCARED OF KARMA.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77928401
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:54 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


havent paid attention to the case but how in the world would the person filming be charged with anything? did he fire at the kid?
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:56 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Did they show the video where homeboy grabbed the shotgun by the barrel?

 Quoting: Wingnut1234


He was defending himself against aggressors that were 2 trucks in and 3 shotguns deep.

What would you have done if one of them had already tried to run you over and now one is holding a shotgun to you?

YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE when YOU ARE THE PERSON THAT CHASED DOWN THE SITUATION.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


this one certainly isnt as clear-cut innocent as the rittenhouse verdict
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:58 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


havent paid attention to the case but how in the world would the person filming be charged with anything? did he fire at the kid?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9983835


He is the one that got the father and son to get into their trucks to start the chase and gassed them up.

Same way when a gang banger is just in the car and still gets charges for participating in an act that causes seriously bodily injury or death.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2021 01:58 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Blacks don't give a fuck about anyone. They'll riot regardless.

Got to get that Gucci hoodie.
GooPile

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11/23/2021 04:06 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Didn't see everything in this case due to the overlap with the Rittenhouse case, but based on the closing arguments:

The father and son stopped following Arbery after he ran away. They stop pursuing him, and had no reason to expect the guy with the phone (camera) was going to push him back in their direction.

The father and son did not 'false imprison' Arbery.

The guy with the camera turned his car around and followed Arbery into the circumstances where he may have thought he needed to make a stand.

The guy with the camera may have false imprisoned Arbery. There is more evidence of that than for the other two. Since the guy with the camera did not have any reason to expect and was not complicit with the father and son in the other truck, even though he may have effectively chased him into a entrapment, non-deliberately.

And completely unaware that the other person in the other truck had a shotgun.

The prosecutor has charged malice murder, which I believe is ridiculous and can be overruled for all 3 (since the 'malice' here was Arbery trying to take the gun off him). They have also charged felony murder, which requires the murder to be committed during the act of a felony. The felony here is false imprisonment but:

a) I think there is no evidence the father and son were complicit in false imprisonment;
b) Even though there is evidence the guy with the camera was chasing him down, he was not complicit with murder because he was not complicit with the other two.

If the prosecution provided evidence of their complicity, I have not seen it and I don't believe she mentioned it.

The prosecution alleges 4 felonies. I don't see how they can possibly get it with false imprisonment. They also argue that a felony was the guy with the camera committing assault with the car. Once again, I don't think there is a direct unbroken line between this and the murder. And from what I understand, angling the car into his path (at 2mph, not believed to have hit Arbery) was defensive due to Arbery trying to open the car door.

A third felony I believe is that the son held a gun up to Arbery as he was coming back at them. And I don't know the legality of this as they were within their rights (best I can tell) to suspect him of committing a felony because: a) he trespassed (not a felony); and b) he may have committed theft (which is a felony over a certain amount).

As I understand it, you don't need proof that a person has committed a felony, but reasonable suspicion. And Arbery's behavior of running out of the place he had trespassed into (doesn't look like a jog to me) certainly arouses suspicion. And as I understand it, he does not need to tell him it is a citizens arrest, but according to their testimony they did try talking to him but he was silent.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/23/2021 04:18 PM
GooPile
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11/23/2021 04:11 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Are they still sticking with "he was out for a jog"?
GooPile

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11/23/2021 04:16 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
One juror shook his head to the lawyer for the guy with a camera's closing statements. When this lawyer pointed it out (how we knew) he suggested the jury needed to take a break. Then I believe the juror can be heard yelling out that was not the case, and the lawyer immediately knew what it meant: his message was not getting through to this juror. It looks like that guy hired the cheapest lawyer he could afford, and it looks like at least 1 guy on the jury is going to be steadfast in convicting the guy with the camera.

So I don't think it's going to be an acquittal of him at least.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/23/2021 04:17 PM
GooPile
GooPile

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11/23/2021 04:29 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
To be honest, as I interpret the law the feeling I have is that felony murder is inadequate for holding the gun to him if the actual killing was due to him wrestling the gun for control. While in that case he may have voided his right to self-defense as the instigator (once again, Arbery was suspected of committing a felony, that he had not is 20:20 hindsight) my feeling is a lesser murder or manslaughter charge might be more apt, but neither charge was given.

I remember hearing during the Chauvin case that the assault that leads to a persons death cannot normally be considered the felony in 2nd degree murder (felony murder). They won on the basis that Chauvin had committed a felony assault on Floyd in keeping him pinned to the ground with his knee on his neck, but experts said the felony in most states has to be disconnected from the thing that kills someone (not that I believe the pinning to the ground killed him, I believe it was a heart attack; it was the jury who concluded he was pinned to the ground as the felony and the nature of that assault killed him).

So if a person points a shotgun at someone and shoots, the felony can't be the pointing of the gun at the person.

So what we have here is something less than that: a potential felony with the intent to try and stop Arbery from coming towards their truck by pointing the gun at him and not firing. Then the firing coming from him having the gun wrestled from him. It just feels to me more like manslaughter or recklessness than felony murder? It doesn't feel like the same kind of thing as robbing a shop and accidentally murdering the shopkeeper (as the prosecutor equated it with). In that case, it may be the intent to commit theft (a second felony) not that the shopkeeper wrestles the gun after having it pointed at him. There is no separate, distinct felony (unless you can prove that he conspired to false imprison Arbery (which I believe is b/s based on what is known, it was coincidental), but his ability to claim self-defense is void.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/23/2021 04:52 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Did they show the video where homeboy grabbed the shotgun by the barrel?

 Quoting: Wingnut1234


He was defending himself against aggressors that were 2 trucks in and 3 shotguns deep.

What would you have done if one of them had already tried to run you over and now one is holding a shotgun to you?

YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE when YOU ARE THE PERSON THAT CHASED DOWN THE SITUATION.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


I don't know about that... He was running down the road, went right around the truck, and then came bac to the left in the front of the truck to confront Travis.

He had every opportunity to continue to the right after he got past the truck and instead he changed direction and confronted the guy with the gun.

He also tried to grab the gun away from the guy multiple times.

I just dont think it is cut and dry.
Abe Froman

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11/23/2021 04:57 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
They will riot, regardless of the verdict. It's still warm in Georgia.
Crap
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11/23/2021 05:57 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
It doesn't make any sense to me that the guy who was following is charged exactly the same as those rednecks who did the shooting.
Ritard

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11/23/2021 06:04 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


havent paid attention to the case but how in the world would the person filming be charged with anything? did he fire at the kid?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9983835


He is the one that got the father and son to get into their trucks to start the chase and gassed them up.

Same way when a gang banger is just in the car and still gets charges for participating in an act that causes seriously bodily injury or death.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


I'm just not buying into this explanation. He didn't shoot, and he didn't make them shoot. They made that decision for themselves.
Evil Lincoln

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11/23/2021 06:17 PM

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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
catfilenails
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GooPile

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11/23/2021 07:27 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


havent paid attention to the case but how in the world would the person filming be charged with anything? did he fire at the kid?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9983835


He is the one that got the father and son to get into their trucks to start the chase and gassed them up.

Same way when a gang banger is just in the car and still gets charges for participating in an act that causes seriously bodily injury or death.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


Been reading about what transpired in this trial, and apparently the father and son saw Arbery running passed their house. They were never contacted by the guy with the camera. The guy with the phone camera, they claim, was not known to them. So no, he didn't get them to do it unless evidence demonstrates otherwise (eg. phone records). The guy with the camera acted impulsively after seeing them go by. He had EVEN LESS reason to chase after the guy as he had not previously seen Arbery trespass at a location where thousands of dollars of items had been stolen (things hadn't been stolen from the under construction house, but they had been stolen from the boat at the house).

Not saying they didn't know one another, nor I am saying I believe him. I am saying I need to see proof of a connection, which is the job of the investigators here. If they fail to provide that, they fail to do their job and deserve to lose. Either there was a connection or there wasn't. And so far, based on what I have seen, there was no counter to their claims of not knowing one another. It was coincidental.

That being said, if the above account is true, the father and son had even less reason to suspect him of a crime as that account doesn't mention they saw the trespass.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/23/2021 07:29 PM
GooPile
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11/23/2021 07:34 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Guilty on all counts is the ONLY logical verdict that can be reached here.

If you fear for your life, call the cops.
You don't mount a posse of you and your boys all bearing shotguns and chase and almost run over a guy and then try to claim self defense when he's the one defending himself again you.

"Fists are weapons!"

That means anyone can be shot at any time for having hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


They did NOT all have shotguns. The guy with the camera was unarmed. The son had a shotgun, the father had a handgun. And once again, there was no evidence that I have seen showing they were a posse working together.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/23/2021 07:38 PM
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4doggies

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11/23/2021 07:39 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


I agree. Those two are doing life in prison.
GooPile

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11/24/2021 12:12 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
In my research, I found a timeline reconstruction on YouTube which seemed to show it is plausible the father and son stopped pursuit and the other merely pushed him back in the direction.

Saw another recreation this morning that shows a rather more aggressive pursuit, including the two parties using one another to entrap (falsely imprison) Arbery whether or not they knew one another.

I am open to the possibility this is felony murder. If the father and son were using the other guy (whether they knew him or not) to entrap Arbery, because they killed him (self-defense or not) then that bloodshed is on them... if they didn't have adequate justification for containing him and then lifting the rifle at him.

But the other guy, I don't see the continuum with the guy with the camera with the death. So I personally think while he may have committed a felony in false imprisonment, and potential assault with his vehicle, he is not necessarily guilty of felony murder.

Last Edited by GooPile on 11/24/2021 12:15 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Pinned to follow
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Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2021 12:39 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
Guilty on all counts is the ONLY logical verdict that can be reached here.

If you fear for your life, call the cops.
You don't mount a posse of you and your boys all bearing shotguns and chase and almost run over a guy and then try to claim self defense when he's the one defending himself again you.

"Fists are weapons!"

That means anyone can be shot at any time for having hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285
100% agree.

I don’t like the law on accessories to murder- I don’t like it that a person in the car gets charged when other passengers commit murder, either. The dude following in the truck did commit felony assault with his vehicle, though- which does make him more likely to be found guilty for being a part of the whole thing.
The other two will and should be found guilty of murder. If it becomes okay to shoot an unarmed person based on a suspicion because they finally try to defend themselves with their hands- it is just a matter of time before the argument is made than none of us should have firearms.
Travis’s own testimony clearly indicates that he and his father are guilty as sin.
GooPile

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11/24/2021 12:43 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
They asked to see the video and the second 911 tape here where Greg McMichael tells Arbery to stop twice. Possibly arguing that Arbery was being given warning to stop closing in?


GooPile
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11/24/2021 12:45 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
If this verdict comes back not guilty I guarantee massive riots and the free shot army out in force
 Quoting: AR 15-SPECIALIST


No way that happens for the father and son. For the guy videotaping it - he's not guilty.
 Quoting: Linkin


Videotaping your friends commit murder when you're the one that initiated the chase that led to it makes YOU just as responsible for it happening.

Had he kept his mouth shut and and not egg'd on the 2 inbreds to do it none of this would have happened.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70428285


amerikkka remains full of such idiots. the whole country needs a massive beatdown
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2021 12:46 PM
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Re: Verdict watch now in Arbery case.
i heard some of the trial opinions

some judicial experts on FOX NEWS precisely, were saying how if you're suspecting a crime that's going on, you call the police

you can't apprehend somebody just because you THINK he might be the perpetrator

can't just civilly arrest folks on the streets

they went hunting





GLP