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| 04:48 PM | ||
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| 04:48 PM | ||
A little thing about informed consent | |
| TlvmmCpoft
Offer Upgrade  User ID: 79285432  Spain01/12/2022 06:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| hankie
Everything User ID: 80628258  United States01/12/2022 07:01 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You could say everyone of the person who signed the form is a test subject, and the placebo group was fine, and the vaccine killed and maimed the ones who got the real vaccine. So, I rather not take it at all, of course I wouldn't take it for health reason, I don't want to kill over for another group financial sheets or their plots to run the world into a hole. Sorry I got a headache These are the times that tries men's and women's souls! May we come though it victorious! |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/12/2022 07:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You could say everyone of the person who signed the form is a test subject, and the placebo group was fine, and the vaccine killed and maimed the ones who got the real vaccine. So, I rather not take it at all, of course I wouldn't take it for health reason, I don't want to kill over for another group financial sheets or their plots to run the world into a hole. Quoting: hankie Even those of us who choose not to directly participate - even we are still affected by the deception involved in the process. We have to deal with potential harm done to family members who believe the lies, we have to deal with policy changes that are based on the lies, we have to deal with the distrust sewn into society by the disjointed arguments and thinking that stem from the lies. They affect our health. They affect our wealth. They affect our families, friends, neighbors, and the businesses we interact with. They affect industry. They affect government and business decision-making. The energy spent on believing and contorting to lies takes away from energy that could have been used on improving or maintaining the overall intelligence of and trust in society. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 01/12/2022 07:12 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/12/2022 07:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Tuskegee Study didn't just affect the health of the men they researched. Those men continued to bring syphilis home to their wives and girlfriends, to their communities, creating a larger community health crisis. They were too ill on some days to go to work, thus affecting the businesses they worked at. They were too ill on some days to take care of and father their children, who grew up with those effects of neglect and had their own lives impacted, and in many cases the lives of their own children because they lacked a healthy role model to learn to be a father from. Those several hundred men were too ill to have positive and meaningful interactions and connections in their communities. They said they had been medically treated because they were told by doctors that they had been, yet their condition did not improve. Others who looked at them could see that their words did not match up with their deteriorating health. That led to distrust and disbelief. It was the start of a chasm that would affect those community members' levels of trust when it came to other interactions with other people. As those social fractures grew, they eventually affected a community and beyond. And that was just a study of a few hundred men. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 01/12/2022 07:25 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78154726 01/12/2022 07:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. shut the fuck you fucking owl hows ur broken back |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/12/2022 07:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Tuskegee Study didn't just affect the health of the men they researched. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Those several hundred men were too ill to have positive and meaningful interactions and connections in their communities. ^^^^ Case and point. Let's call this exhibit A. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 01/12/2022 07:28 PM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 75936139 United States01/12/2022 07:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/12/2022 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Unicorn has been stalking me and a few other people lately. They have a lot of trauma-created hate built up inside that they need to get out. It's sad but there's not much we can do except watch them spew until they're done emotionally vomiting it all up. I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 78036093 01/12/2022 08:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Unicorn has been stalking me and a few other people lately. They have a lot of trauma-created hate built up inside that they need to get out. It's sad but there's not much we can do except watch them spew until they're done emotionally vomiting it all up. They're going to vomit up a whole lot more in the not-so-distant future, like entire chunks of lung, blood and mucus. |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/13/2022 07:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 81853476  Australia01/13/2022 07:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. Well said.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 17429141 United States01/13/2022 08:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. You know what else uses deception, sorcery the bases of all medicine |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 80431415  Netherlands01/13/2022 08:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. There were a lot of studies like you mention, in the past. Wonder why the participants did participate? |
| Eilonwy
User ID: 81328201 United States01/13/2022 09:06 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wow. Interesting thoughts, OP! I had a bad reaction to a vax and it took me several years of thinking to actually throw off the wonderful dream that vaxes were safe and effective. We have so much faith in modern medicine, but every single thing they do brings them closer to the 100th monkey of distrust. It's very close now. Last Edited by Eilonwy on 01/13/2022 09:06 PM “A grower of turnips or shaper of clay, a commot Farmer or a king--every man is a hero if he strives more for others than for himself alone.” Lloyd Alexander, The Castle of Llyr |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 79285432 Spain01/14/2022 08:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. There were a lot of studies like you mention, in the past. Wonder why the participants did participate? They're usually told they will benefit from it, if they're told they're participants at all. Most likely, in the syphilis study, they were told they would get the best treatment, not the worst. Just think of all those cancer patients out there who have been trained to fight to get into trials because "they will be the best outcome" when the truth is no one know what the outcome will be, which is why they have trials - to find out. Last Edited by TlvmmCpoft on 01/14/2022 08:11 AM I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 81828661  Canada01/14/2022 08:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Experimental genetic based therapy regimen with an indefinite number of doses that doesn't confer immunity and comes with a zero liability clause in the event of adverse reaction or death (some countries will pay for your coffin). What is so hard to understand? |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 81859977 Spain01/14/2022 11:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Experimental genetic based therapy regimen with an indefinite number of doses that doesn't confer immunity and comes with a zero liability clause in the event of adverse reaction or death (some countries will pay for your coffin). Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81828661 What is so hard to understand? Heh. People are taught not to see what's right in front of them. That's why places like GLP form so the rest of us can face palm as we point and say, "How fucking blind and deaf are you???" I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Sisyphusrock
User ID: 81656341 United States01/14/2022 11:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. Still Milgram did some interesting experiments that required no actual physical harm . But I do see the slippery slope you are addressing “I am at the moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip.” |
| TlvmmCpoft
(OP) User ID: 81859977 Spain01/14/2022 12:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It doesn't actually exist within research protocol. The reason is simple. If the participant knows what is going on, they are going to have a placebo effect or otherwise taint the data. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Remember the Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Black Male” or the new more PC name, “USPHS Syphilis Study at Tuskegee”? The participants were told they were receiving effective treatment. They were not. In fact, doctors withheld available effective treatment from them. That wasn't a once-in-a-blue-moon kind of thing. Research protocol requires a certain amount of deception. Knowing this, ethics boards let scientists get away with hell as long as they can argue that what they are doing is subjectively good compared to the harm they do to the participants. If it's defense-related research, they don't even have to clear an ethics board. In psychological research protocol, the standard methodology is to plain lie to participants about what is being studied, until after the study is done - at which point the researchers are supposed to tell the participants the true purpose. I've yet to assist in an approved study in which we fully disclosed the purpose to participants afterward. Usually, ethics boards will give a waiver on that for fear that the participants will inform other future participants, thus skewing the data. I've personally argued that the lies on their own are doing harm to the participants and society as a whole, but I've always been met with dead eyes and flustered responses of denial by researchers who cling to the current methodology. But I know it's true. You know it's true. Lying to people affects them. They make decisions that are not in their best interests when they base those decisions on false information. It's like blinding them to the road in front of them, something that would be illegal to do as a driver, but that we openly allow in medical and psychological research. Distrust is sewn when it becomes obvious that lies were involved. Fear and a fractured culture stem from that. The standard and accepted model of research design is flawed. And it does harm on so many levels. Think about how many ways that harm has affected just this single day in our lives. Think about how those lies affected yesterday. Think about how they will affect the rest of our days. Still Milgram did some interesting experiments that required no actual physical harm . But I do see the slippery slope you are addressing How do you think the people participating in those experiments felt about themselves and humanity afterward? I don't know what lies they told you, but I can promise they were lies. There's a fine line between training, trauma, and torture. |
| Trisherella
User ID: 81631566 United States01/14/2022 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| MostHolyFace
User ID: 65207451  United Kingdom01/14/2022 12:50 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bump 5 star Pray Hope & Dont Worry [link to www.sudariumchristi.com (secure)] |
| Yeap
User ID: 85407917  Argentina05/02/2023 05:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You could say everyone of the person who signed the form is a test subject, and the placebo group was fine, and the vaccine killed and maimed the ones who got the real vaccine. So, I rather not take it at all, of course I wouldn't take it for health reason, I don't want to kill over for another group financial sheets or their plots to run the world into a hole. Quoting: hankie Even those of us who choose not to directly participate - even we are still affected by the deception involved in the process. We have to deal with potential harm done to family members who believe the lies, we have to deal with policy changes that are based on the lies, we have to deal with the distrust sewn into society by the disjointed arguments and thinking that stem from the lies. They affect our health. They affect our wealth. They affect our families, friends, neighbors, and the businesses we interact with. They affect industry. They affect government and business decision-making. The energy spent on believing and contorting to lies takes away from energy that could have been used on improving or maintaining the overall intelligence of and trust in society. amazing!!! great stand! so what now? r u going to go deep in depresion, or come out an shine to the world and ur brothers!!!???? this is the beauty of this game!!! people for all over the world have more or less came to the same comclucion of yours... amazingly program... but now, what would u do? that is the growing question. the deccion making. the gift lucifer gave to u. before this, here there was not one chance, everyhitng was good and blessed... lucifer bring the "bad" in the world... for u to make a choice... would u try to get to the tbpd and get a piece of that cake?, when it is allowed, and u could get away with, murder, will u do it? they teach u in movies to do it... will u? they do teach u to scam... in the internet... will u? they also teach u an enocurge u to have mutiple sex partners,,,, will u? they offer sex for money...? will u? they offer a lot of toxicated food in the supermarkets... will u? are u getting the idea....? Yeap |
| Judethz
User ID: 79555498 United Kingdom05/02/2023 05:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The Tuskegee Study didn't just affect the health of the men they researched. Quoting: TlvmmCpoft Those men continued to bring syphilis home to their wives and girlfriends, to their communities, creating a larger community health crisis. They were too ill on some days to go to work, thus affecting the businesses they worked at. They were too ill on some days to take care of and father their children, who grew up with those effects of neglect and had their own lives impacted, and in many cases the lives of their own children because they lacked a healthy role model to learn to be a father from. Those several hundred men were too ill to have positive and meaningful interactions and connections in their communities. They said they had been medically treated because they were told by doctors that they had been, yet their condition did not improve. Others who looked at them could see that their words did not match up with their deteriorating health. That led to distrust and disbelief. It was the start of a chasm that would affect those community members' levels of trust when it came to other interactions with other people. As those social fractures grew, they eventually affected a community and beyond. And that was just a study of a few hundred men.    I think that a lot of people will finish up in hell because of all this stuff. Excepting those who repent. |
