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Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2022 10:01 PM
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Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
"The current propaganda meme in Washington is that Russia is going to 'invade Ukraine' and absorb it. It will not: Ukraine is a decaying, impoverished, de-industrialised, divided, corrupt and decaying mess; Moscow does not want to take responsibility for the package. Moscow is fully aware that while its troops will be welcomed in many parts of Ukraine they will not be in others. Indeed, in Moscow, they must be wishing that Stalin had returned Galicia to Poland rather than giving it to the Ukrainian SSR after the War and stuck Warsaw with the problem. This does not, however, rule out the eventual absorption of most of Novorossiya in ultimo.

The second delusion in Washington is that if Moscow did 'invade Ukraine' it would start as far away from Kiev as possible and send tank after tank down a road so that the US-supplied PAWs could exact a heavy cost. That is absolutely not what Moscow would do as Scott Ritter explains. Moscow would use standoff weapons to obliterate Ukrainian troop positions, C3I assets, assembly areas, artillery positions, ammunition dumps, airfields, ports and the like. At its choice. It would all be over quite quickly and the Javelins would never be taken out of their boxes. But that is the extreme option as Ritter explains.

Unfortunately the Blinkens, Sullivans, Farkas’, Nulands and others who seem to be driving USA policy don’t understand any of this..." [less than 50%]

[link to patrickarmstrong.ca (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2022 10:05 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
thx for copypazta
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2022 10:08 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/23/2022 10:16 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
thx for copypazta
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81825684


:recantshillbot:
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:25 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Although I think a Russian invasion of Ukraine is unlikely, this is probably what it would look like:

"What would a conflict between Russia and NATO look like? In short, not like anything NATO has prepared for. Time is the friend of NATO in any such conflict—time to let sanctions weaken the Russian economy, and time to allow NATO to build up sufficient military power to be able to match Russia’s conventional military strength.

Russia knows this, and as such, any Russian move will be designed to be both swift and decisive.

First and foremost, if it comes to it, when Russia decides to move on Ukraine, it will do so with a plan of action that has been well-thought out and which sufficient resources have been allocated for its successful completion. Russia will not get involved in a military misadventure in Ukraine that has the potential of dragging on and on, like the U.S. experience in Afghanistan and Iraq. Russia has studied an earlier U.S. military campaign—Operation Desert Storm, of Gulf War I—and has taken to heart the lessons of that conflict.

One does not need to occupy the territory of a foe in order to destroy it. A strategic air campaign designed to nullify specific aspects of a nations’ capability, whether it be economic, political, military, or all the above, coupled with a focused ground campaign designed to destroy an enemy’s army as opposed to occupy its territory, is the likely course of action.

Given the overwhelming supremacy Russia has both in terms of the ability to project air power backed by precision missile attacks, a strategic air campaign against Ukraine would accomplish in days what the U.S. took more than a month to do against Iraq in 1991.

On the ground, the destruction of Ukraine’s Army is all but guaranteed. Simply put, the Ukrainian military is neither equipped nor trained to engage in large-scale ground combat. It would be destroyed piecemeal, and the Russians would more than likely spend more time processing Ukrainian prisoners of war than killing Ukrainian defenders.

For any Russian military campaign against Ukraine to be effective in a larger conflict with NATO, however, two things must occur—Ukraine must cease to exist as a modern nation state, and the defeat of the Ukrainian military must be massively one-sided and quick. If Russia is able to accomplish these two objectives, then it is well positioned to move on to the next phase of its overall strategic posturing vis-a-vis NATO—intimidation.

While the U.S., NATO, the EU, and the G7 have all promised 'unprecedented sanctions,' sanctions only matter if the other side cares. Russia, by rupturing relations with the West, no longer would care about sanctions. Moreover, it is a simple acknowledgement of reality that Russia can survive being blocked from SWIFT transactions longer than Europe can survive without Russian energy. Any rupturing of relations between Russia and the West will result in the complete embargoing of Russian gas and oil to European customers.

There is no European Plan B. Europe will suffer, and because Europe is composed of erstwhile democracies, politicians will pay the price. All those politicians who followed the U.S. blindly into a confrontation with Russia will now have to answer to their respective constituents why they committed economic suicide on behalf of a Nazi-worshipping, thoroughly corrupt nation (Ukraine) which has nothing in common with the rest of Europe. It will be a short conversation.

If the U.S. tries to build up NATO forces on Russia’s western frontiers in the aftermath of any Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia will then present Europe with a fait accompli in the form of what would now be known as the 'Ukrainian model.' In short, Russia will guarantee that the Ukrainian treatment will be applied to the Baltics, Poland, and even Finland, should it be foolish enough to pursue NATO membership.

Russia won’t wait until the U.S. has had time to accumulate sufficient military power, either. Russia will simply destroy the offending party through the combination of an air campaign designed to degrade the economic function of the targeted nation, and a ground campaign designed to annihilate the ability to wage war. Russia does not need to occupy the territory of NATO for any lengthy period—just enough to destroy whatever military power has been accumulated by NATO near its borders.

And—here’s the kicker—short of employing nuclear weapons, there’s nothing NATO can do to prevent this outcome...." [link to consortiumnews.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:29 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79468392


I don't think it's about Ukraine per se anymore than mRNA vaccines are about stomping out Covid-19 and ensuring people's health.

Same thing with issues like BLM/GLBT, Critical Race Theory, lowering C02, etc.

I think it's a combination of money, power and sociopathic liberalism.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:42 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79468392


I don't think it's about Ukraine per se anymore than mRNA vaccines are about stomping out Covid-19 and ensuring people's health.

Same thing with issues like BLM/GLBT, Critical Race Theory, lowering C02, etc.

I think it's a combination of money, power and sociopathic liberalism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77099315


hesright
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:42 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Rothschild vs Rothschild
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:43 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Rothschild vs Rothschild Vladimir Putin, leader of the free, Christian world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78254802


There, fixed it for ya!
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:43 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79468392


alien03alienship
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01/24/2022 09:44 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Rothschild vs Rothschild Vladimir Putin, leader of the free, Christian world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78254802


There, fixed it for ya!
 Quoting: Et Sano


Who pushed Pfizer?
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:45 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
No israeli vax in Russia?
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:45 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
If Russia chooses to invade Eastern Europe, it will succeed. The US/NATO does not now, and never has had the conventional resources in Europe to withstand a full scale invasion, doctrine has always included tactical nuclear weapon deployment against Soviet / Russian troop formations.
Agent 99

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01/24/2022 09:46 PM

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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79468392


this
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:47 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Let our women fight this one.



FEAR US !!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 09:55 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Biden needs this war. He's unpopular. Country is divided. Nothing rallies a country together like a good old fashioned war. It worked for other presidents.
Emma3010

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01/24/2022 09:58 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Maybe its not about Ukraine
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79468392



Listened to Mercouris earlier today, he spoke about Ukraine's horrible financial situation, how this constant "war! war! war!" drumbeat from the filthy neocons in the US and their sidekicks in the UK is destroying what remained of their economy.

Got me to wondering...is it about destroying their economy and bringing down their banks to try and hide the Biden family's dirty stuff?


Or are the big bankers going to use Ukraine the same way they use Argentina (making a killing betting on their debt default/making a killing on the subsequent debt restructuring) ??

Maybe there are assets certain oligarchs want to get their hands on?

Regardless, it's absolutely NOT whatever the fedgov is telling us through their media and internet lackeys, that's for damn sure.
composmentis
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01/24/2022 09:59 PM

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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
I think that Putin is just moving to defend his country and people in case there is an attack.
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Strate8

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01/24/2022 09:59 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Russia is the only country in the modern era which, by military action, was able to gain and hold territory on what could be considered a permanent basis. Crimea.

One would do well to read up on how they accomplished that.

Those thinking Russia is going to do a traditional invasion of Ukraine and try to nation build are caught up in Western mentality of empire building.

I don't know how it's all going to go down, but I am pretty sure that is not it.
trolls vs bots - we live in a scifi world
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:00 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
The Chinese are watching what happens in Ukraine, to gauge what they will do in Taiwan.

This is just the beginning.

If Ukraine falls to Russia, they'll be invasions all over the world.

byekitty
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01/24/2022 10:08 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Russia going to get "Arkan-cided" by Bill/Hillary using Biden's military because she still thinks Russia help Trump beat her in 2016.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:10 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Let our women fight this one.



FEAR US !!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78963041


blink
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:16 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
"The current propaganda meme in Washington is that Russia is going to 'invade Ukraine' and absorb it. It will not: Ukraine is a decaying, impoverished, de-industrialised, divided, corrupt and decaying mess; Moscow does not want to take responsibility for the package. Moscow is fully aware that while its troops will be welcomed in many parts of Ukraine they will not be in others. Indeed, in Moscow, they must be wishing that Stalin had returned Galicia to Poland rather than giving it to the Ukrainian SSR after the War and stuck Warsaw with the problem. This does not, however, rule out the eventual absorption of most of Novorossiya in ultimo.

The second delusion in Washington is that if Moscow did 'invade Ukraine' it would start as far away from Kiev as possible and send tank after tank down a road so that the US-supplied PAWs could exact a heavy cost. That is absolutely not what Moscow would do as Scott Ritter explains. Moscow would use standoff weapons to obliterate Ukrainian troop positions, C3I assets, assembly areas, artillery positions, ammunition dumps, airfields, ports and the like. At its choice. It would all be over quite quickly and the Javelins would never be taken out of their boxes. But that is the extreme option as Ritter explains.

Unfortunately the Blinkens, Sullivans, Farkas’, Nulands and others who seem to be driving USA policy don’t understand any of this..." [less than 50%]

[link to patrickarmstrong.ca (secure)]
 Quoting: Et Sano


I understand it, It has nothing to do with the UKraine

and everything to do with Russian troops backing hezbollah in Syria

Ukraine are being used by some very evil people.

If they want assad out of syria just go kill him
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:17 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Russia is the only country in the modern era which, by military action, was able to gain and hold territory on what could be considered a permanent basis. Crimea.

One would do well to read up on how they accomplished that.

Those thinking Russia is going to do a traditional invasion of Ukraine and try to nation build are caught up in Western mentality of empire building.

I don't know how it's all going to go down, but I am pretty sure that is not it.
 Quoting: Strate8


Most Ukrainian servicemen stood aside when Russia secured Crimea. That's because Kiev is actually the cradle of Rus and most Russians and Ukrainians are united: genetically, religiously, and culturally.

Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:17 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Biden needs this war. He's unpopular. Country is divided. Nothing rallies a country together like a good old fashioned war. It worked for other presidents.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80839867


90% of Americans are against it. It will kill the democrat party
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:18 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Russell "Texas" Bentley is in Donbas; 1.5 hour video:

Psychedelic Mashed Potatoes

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01/24/2022 10:22 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
.

Last Edited by Psychedelic Mashed Potatoes on 10/03/2022 07:47 PM
America is Babylon and Vladimir Putin is the Beast of Revelation:

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

If I post about the recorded history of Israelite child sacrifice on this site, I get flagged for an abusive post. Just think about that.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:23 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Well said OP.

It's like the USA trying to take Alberta, Canada while Russia tries to defend them. We'd drone, bomb, and cruise missile every major city and military installation within eight hours and have troops occupying the rubble within 48 hours.
 Quoting: Psychedelic Mashed Potatoes


hesright
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:25 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Biden needs this war. He's unpopular. Country is divided. Nothing rallies a country together like a good old fashioned war. It worked for other presidents.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80839867


90% of Americans are against it. It will kill the democrat party
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79921326


The Democrats are the War Party, that's for sure. Never forget that Trump, for all his faults, ran as the "peace candidate" and was elected largely thanks to the support of Independents who wanted nothing to do with Cankles' war agenda in Syria and the Ukraine.
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:26 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Well said OP.

It's like the USA trying to take Alberta, Canada while Russia tries to defend them. We'd drone, bomb, and cruise missile every major city and military installation within eight hours and have troops occupying the rubble within 48 hours.
 Quoting: Psychedelic Mashed Potatoes


Yeah but you guys are not understanding why all this is happening.

Its all about Syria, Biden's cabinet are all Israel dual citizens.

They are now in charge of our military... They have stolen

the election while at the same time trying to get America to

hate Russia.

I get it, they are scared, but what they are doing is very illegal.

Our entire US military has been captured by a foreign power
Anonymous Coward
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01/24/2022 10:32 PM
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Re: Russia, Ukraine: Delusions and Reality
Russell Bentley on American politics:
[link to www.russelltexasbentley.com]





GLP