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NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations

 
nemo_solus
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04/20/2022 07:34 AM

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NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
mondali2

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Thailand
04/20/2022 07:58 AM
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good one thanks
mondali2
Anonymous Coward
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04/20/2022 08:06 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/20/2022 08:15 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705



Russia is correct.

Who wouldn't feel threatened if someone who's claimed to be your enemy, who also tried to economically destroy your country numerous times in the past, started increasing the number of military installations and military hardware along your border along with numerous highly suspicious "biolabs", while simultaneously enacting a coup in your bordering country in 2014 and installing a puppet regime.

If this happened along the US and Mexico border, the US would have responded exactly the same way as Russia responded.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82168279
Canada
04/20/2022 09:14 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

...


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

...


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705



Russia is correct.

Who wouldn't feel threatened if someone who's claimed to be your enemy, who also tried to economically destroy your country numerous times in the past, started increasing the number of military installations and military hardware along your border along with numerous highly suspicious "biolabs", while simultaneously enacting a coup in your bordering country in 2014 and installing a puppet regime.

If this happened along the US and Mexico border, the US would have responded exactly the same way as Russia responded.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80893267


bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78571794
Belgium
04/20/2022 09:26 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus


hesright
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80688083
United States
04/20/2022 10:36 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
NATO is the USSSA.
And they can’t stop Russia. Or China.
4thhorseman

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04/20/2022 10:43 PM
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bump
SICSEMPERTYRANIS
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Vi veri universum vivus vici
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact".
Arthur Conan Doyle
"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth".
Arthur Conan Doyle
MOLON LABE [link to www.usavsus.info]
Anonymous Coward
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04/20/2022 10:50 PM
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stupthrd


.
Anonymous Coward
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Hong Kong
04/20/2022 10:55 PM
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Bidean is clearly in violation of this NATO charter.

He is also in violation of US law, as Congress has not declared war
Contra spem spero

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United States
04/20/2022 11:05 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus


Fu.k Russia, USA is part of Budapest Memorandum.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Contra spem spero
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82690982
United States
04/20/2022 11:07 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
Have any nato members disagreed to send arms to "ukraine"?
If so then nato is in violation of its own bullshit.
Texas Patriot
User ID: 76023531
United States
04/20/2022 11:08 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705


It is more about President Putin exposing the Criminally Insane NWO using Ukraine as a money laundering bioweapon's lab Country!
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/20/2022 11:14 PM
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good points here NATO clearly acting outside its authority.


I think all these countries in on it scripted like Albert Pike planned
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82369453
Hong Kong
04/20/2022 11:17 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
the whole NATO involvement and response has been wrong
Anonymous Coward
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04/20/2022 11:25 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
the whole NATO involvement and response has been wrong
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82369453


it is illegal, and just as illegal as Hitler invading europe
New Atlantis

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04/20/2022 11:35 PM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

...


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

...


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705



Russia is correct.

Who wouldn't feel threatened if someone who's claimed to be your enemy, who also tried to economically destroy your country numerous times in the past, started increasing the number of military installations and military hardware along your border along with numerous highly suspicious "biolabs", while simultaneously enacting a coup in your bordering country in 2014 and installing a puppet regime.

If this happened along the US and Mexico border, the US would have responded exactly the same way as Russia responded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80893267


trump-HRYK
"What you think, you become." - Buddha
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82929242
Australia
04/20/2022 11:38 PM
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Who ever followed the rules? Not the ones in charge, that's for sure.

They write down the rules for stupid sheep to read, so they feel like they're safe in sensible hands. Lol
Mi So Horn Knee
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Mexico
04/20/2022 11:40 PM
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Soaked panties
Anonymous Coward
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Italy
04/20/2022 11:48 PM
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Ursula should shave herself, just in case you know.
mlabors

User ID: 82879273
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04/21/2022 12:42 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus


Fu.k Russia, USA is part of Budapest Memorandum.
[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Contra spem spero


nothing here says we cannot resupply the Ukraine.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 01:00 AM
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NATO is clearly provoking Russia. NATO is the 666 Beast mentioned in the Bible.
PEEBALLS

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04/21/2022 01:00 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
Bidean is clearly in violation of this NATO charter.

He is also in violation of US law, as Congress has not declared war
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82923970

time is short,seek your maker.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 70776282
New Zealand
04/21/2022 01:21 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
Bidean is clearly in violation of this NATO charter.

He is also in violation of US law, as Congress has not declared war
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82923970

 Quoting: PEEBALLS


NZ and Ozzie have objected to the agreement of China providing security to the Solomon Islands. New Zealand and Australia have made it clear they don't want China in our backyard.

But.. but.. both countries condemn Russia for the SAME reason!! Russia feel unsafe with NATO in their backyard.

It is laughable how the western leaders think...They got this megomania egos that they think they own the world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80384947
United States
04/21/2022 03:19 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

...


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

...


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705



Russia is correct.

Who wouldn't feel threatened if someone who's claimed to be your enemy, who also tried to economically destroy your country numerous times in the past, started increasing the number of military installations and military hardware along your border along with numerous highly suspicious "biolabs", while simultaneously enacting a coup in your bordering country in 2014 and installing a puppet regime.

If this happened along the US and Mexico border, the US would have responded exactly the same way as Russia responded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80893267

You are right except the last part.
US always fist carpet bombs a country no matter how many
civilians die, they don't give a shit about that.
And then when 95 % of all resistance is gone, the US military heroes
go in to "win" the war.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 82779683
United States
04/21/2022 04:02 AM
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NATO is the USSSA.
And they can’t stop Russia. Or China.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80688083


Yeah buddy, tell it like it is!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43938106
United States
04/21/2022 04:06 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705


NATO still violated A1 and, hence A8 by telling Zelensky to publicly refuse to concede to Russia's demand that Ukraine commit to never join NATO. Pure, intentional escalation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1733795
United States
04/21/2022 04:15 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
Its all bs. Putin didn't need to attack Ukraine. He wants that land attached to Crimea. period. The world has shrank so much 100 miles doesn't matter in the scheme of things. I feel this is some kind of bait and switch. They want us focused on this. While they fuck us over some where else. The people are the ones that always pay. I feel for the Russian and the Ukrainian people. They are the ones being murdered. Was there ever a war that was good? I doubt it. God bless. Love each other while you can. We are not promised tomorrow. Make the most of the present.
Anonymous Coward
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04/21/2022 04:25 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus


The mental gymnastics here is hilarious.

epiclol
thinking...

User ID: 78212432
United States
04/21/2022 05:07 AM

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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
An interesting opinion from Karl this morning over on The Market Ticker:

[link to market-ticker.org (secure)]

Everyone wishes to argue "Article 5" of the NATO treaty, which is the mutual-defense pact. You get attacked and we all get attacked.

Ok.

What does Article I say?

The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.
 Quoting: Article I


Shipping arms into an area where armed conflict is either occurring or threatening to occur, where the destination is NOT a NATO member and thus is NOT subject to NATO's mutual defense obligations is a clear violation of Article I. It is escalatory, it is a threat to use force or enables the actual use of force, and thus is a clear violation of Article I.

How about Article 8?

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.
 Quoting: Article 8


Providing arms to a belligerent not a member of NATO violates this provision in that it can cause a mutual defense obligation to arise that would otherwise not. Therefore NATO members are obligated to stay out of non-member conflicts except with the unanimous consent of all members.
 Quoting: Karl Denninger


There's more at the article itself...
 Quoting: nemo_solus



I don't believe this issue with Ukraine is viewed as a Ukraine only problem. Russia has declared that it's motivated to attack Ukraine because it feels threatened by NATO. Therefore NATO obviously views this attack on Ukraine as an attack on NATO. I think NATO has the right to defend itself, however it's trying to avoid direct conflict by using Ukraine as a proxy. Ukraine is not the first country to be used in this way.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78274705


No. Russia is not engaged in any war with a NATO member nation, period. NATO does not have any "right" to "use Ukraine as a proxy", though that's what it's doing.
In his poem Human Pride, Marx admits that his aim is not to improve the world, reform or revolutionize it, but simply to ruin it and enjoy it being ruined:

With disdain I will throw my gauntlet full in the face of the world,
And see the collapse of this pygmy giant whose fall will not stifle my ardor.
Then will I wander godlike and victorious through the ruins of the world
And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator.

“Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking in the radio for the announcer.”

– Nasseim Haramein, Director of Research for the Resonance Project


Normalize every aberrant behavior, bring common all deviancy and let fly the reins of morality and reason, then welcome in that utopia that liberals embrace called communism, that which most Americans with but a shard of ethic would immediately recognize as evil.
 Quoting: judahbenhuer
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04/21/2022 05:18 AM
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Re: NATO Article 1, Article 8, Article 11 Violations
NATO isn't shipping any arms, individual countries are. Doesn't matter that they are in a defensive pact.





GLP