A question for Pro Abortionists on "My Body, my choice" - What about the baby's body? What about the baby's human rights?

Didn't you just say those qualities where philosophical in nature - not biological? Do you need a biologist to determine a person's sex as well? Do you need to be a meteorologist to tell if its raining? If you don't feel you are qualified to have an opinion, why have you provided one?

Does someone need to be able to hear to be a human? Are deaf individuals not human? I suspect the real reason you don't provide an answer is because there are no qualities the fetus has or lacks that don't apply equally to a premature infant and others with disabilities.

In the United States the LEFT imposed a decision abusing the power of our (all male) highest court to declare the right of abortion trumps all other rights - bypassing the will of the people. It is any surprise that imposing such an extreme position by force caused the opposition to take an equally extreme position? Any conflict was entirely caused by this abusive action of the American left and their abuse of government power, and it has split our society since it occurred.

They took the decision out of the hands of our State legislatures. Over-turning Roe Vs Wade only returns the regulation of Abortion to the legislature so "the people" can determine how they want to handle it. Given the fact that so many legislatures are passing anti-abortion laws would mean that they are only following the will of the people in those states. It is the left that maintains the legislatures have no right to legislate on this matter, and using a grossly false interpretation of our constitution that entirely rejects the idea of consent of the governed. That is "power hungry"

The only time the American left is interested in Natural rights is when they feel it can be used for politcal advantage. They have no standards, but double standards and no principles but the pursuit of power over others. The left is the authoritarian party in America - not the right. The right wishes to preserve the classical liberalism and agreements the nation was founded upon.


Please learn some US History before commenting on it.

Last Edited by Weisshaupt on 05/07/2022 12:02 PM

A "fetus" in the womb is a Human Being. Human rights are meaningless if we don't uphold them for the most vulnerable of humans - our children. The innocent baby in the womb.

From Wikipedia:

Human rights are moral principles or norms[1] for certain standards of human behaviour and are regularly protected in municipal and international law.[2] They are commonly understood as inalienable,[3] fundamental rights "to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being"[4] and which are "inherent in all human beings",[5] regardless of their age, ethnic origin, location, language, religion, ethnicity, or any other status.[3] They are applicable everywhere and at every time in the sense of being universal,[1] and they are egalitarian in the sense of being the same for everyone.[3] They are regarded as requiring empathy and the rule of law[6] and imposing an obligation on persons to respect the human rights of others,[1][3] and it is generally considered that they should not be taken away except as a result of due process based on specific circumstances.[3]

link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Babies have no rights according to the buy-bull.

Why do you call it the "buy-bull"?

Where is it established in the Bible that babies have no rights?

Last Edited by A Ghost From Another Time on 05/08/2022 10:00 AM

Unless it's a boob job

This explanation seems to work for those not getting bodily autonomy.

Imagine your cousin had kidney failure and you were a match.
You decided to donate one of your kidneys to him.
Even though the kidney could potentially grow in someone else and have another life, it is still part of your body.
You still have the choice whether to donate it or not, because it is inside of you.
You can't be forced to get it cut out of you because you gave autonomy over your own body.
You also can't be forced not to get it cut out of you, because you have bodily autonomy.

A fetus is essentially a parasite growing in a womans body until they develop enough to survive outside the womans body.
A woman has absolute domain over her body and what is growing inside of it. Kidneys or fetuses.

that's like saying my car is part of the gas pump until i disconnect the hose. nonsense.

false dichotomy.
the fetus has completely separate and distinct DNA, therefore is not part of her body but housed within her body. kidneys are the same DNA, therefor is part of her body.

A "fetus" in the womb is a Human Being. Human rights are meaningless if we don't uphold them for the most vulnerable of humans - our children. The innocent baby in the womb.

From Wikipedia:

Human rights are moral principles or norms[1] for certain standards of human behaviour and are regularly protected in municipal and international law.[2] They are commonly understood as inalienable,[3] fundamental rights "to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being"[4] and which are "inherent in all human beings",[5] regardless of their age, ethnic origin, location, language, religion, ethnicity, or any other status.[3] They are applicable everywhere and at every time in the sense of being universal,[1] and they are egalitarian in the sense of being the same for everyone.[3] They are regarded as requiring empathy and the rule of law[6] and imposing an obligation on persons to respect the human rights of others,[1][3] and it is generally considered that they should not be taken away except as a result of due process based on specific circumstances.[3]

link: [link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

A fetus in the womb with a beating heart at 6 weeks is a parasite?

It is a living being. A human being.

You are saying it isn't a human and therefore should not have any rights?

Are you saying that it's between them and their God?
If so, why should any humans intervene?
Does God need your help?

pro-choicers love to call babies 'parasites' - I guess it helps them sleep at night.

A lot of women are like that these days.

Its pretty sad

They think that they can murder their child just because they are in their body.

Soap box soap box soap box...


but incapable of answering questions like this.

Pfffft!

Are you literally retarded?
The baby doesn't have a body at 6 weeks.
You can grow a heart from stem cells and it's not a living human being.
Not everything that is a living being is a living human being.
Therefore, an embryo that is not even a fetus yet is not a living human being - it's not even a fucking baby yet.
You are fucking literally mentally retarded.

It's not a baby, and since when do babies have rights anyway? What a completely retarded question.

I believe God will judge each of us for the wrongs we have done. So yes, in a sense it is between them and their God.

If you have a beautiful brand new Lexus and I see you're using the wrong type of oil or wrong type of fuel or revving a cold engine all the way to redline each time you turn it on - or any number of things which will ruin the car...

I have two ways I can go about it. I can either choose to not give a damn and say it's not my problem. On one level I'd be right. I'm just minding my own business and who cares if you're an idiot and you'll ruin a fine luxury car.

On the other hand, it is wasteful, unnecessary and honestly just a sad thing to see for that to needlessly happen. So at the very least, I'll walk over and say "Listen man, if you keep doing that, you're gonna ruin the car. It's none of my business but in case you didn't know, I wanted to tell you.".

So you don't necessarily have to intervene or get involved in my view, but you can at least tell someone to make sure they understand what they are doing wrong. They can take it or leave it but at least someone told them. It's similar to the concept of informed consent in my view.

I'm not going to ban you from getting an abortion. I'm not even going to hate you for it, even though I think it's wrong. But I am going to tell you that you are ending a human life. A life with a beating heart that is alive and is a human. If you're ok with that, if you still want to do it - fine, go ahead. But I believe you will be judged and you will have to account for it. I pray you come to your senses and understand that it is wrong but I can't stop you.

No God doesn't need any help from me. He doesn't need help in judging what is wrong nor in punishing those wrongs. God is the most fair judge - he knows you better than you know yourself and will give you due process. He will judge you fairly no matter what you did.

So what is the point of me saying anything or trying to stop anything?

God will see that I tried to stop something that was wrong. Maybe in some cases I succeeded and did stop it from happening and changed lives for the better.

I was happy to answer your question. Like you, I dislike when people don't answer them.

It’s referred to reproductive health for women (although a certain segment of society thinks men can be women…but this post is not about that). So..what about the women in the womb?

Correct.

Not only is it alive, it is a HUMAN life. It is the murder of a human life.

The evil actually begins within the American contract law system, wherein a fetus has no legal rights until it is born and issued a birth certificate when it then becomes partial property of the state itself. The irony is that even then that child has precious few legal protections against state intrusions into its life literally from birth until death regardless of how long that life may turn out to be.

In order to understand this you must first grasp how the entire cyclical system works:

It begins when a couple marries and applies to the state for a license [aka: a permit or "appeal for permission" to do so]; no license, no marriage! That license is actually a legally binding CONTRACT between the couple and the state so that the state can regulate everything that occurs within that union. And I DO mean EVERYTHING, from birth until death!

As children are born to that couple, they are automatically issued birth certificates so they become a part of the original marriage contract [this is commonly called a contract "rider" or "addendum"]; legally those children are considered "chattel" -an item of property other than real estate- and since those children were the result of the already existing marriage contract they are partially under the control of the issuing state. This is what gives the state the right to seize [or "confiscate"] children from abusive parents.

Incidentally: it is this contractual system that also forms the basis for all law enforcement. As the issuer of that original contact, all individuals listed within that document [or its riders] fall under the control of the state and its laws, a legal web that extends from local all the way up to federal levels. And it NEVER ends until the day you die...

FYI: when you join the military it becomes even more complex because you are entering into a new contract with the federal government with its own separate set of definitive laws.

If that couple decides to divorce, a legal proceeding is required because they are in effect DISSOLVING that original marriage contract with the state and since the state was a part of that original contract you must have their permission in order to do so. It's under this authority that grants the state to divvy up the property -both chattel [the children, pets, furniture, et cetera] and real estate- in that contractual dissolution.

Starting to see how it all works?

Your birth certificate is also why death by suicide is still technically a crime, because it violates the conditions existing under the original marriage contract and the later birth addendums. Legally, if you want to kill yourself, you must first appeal to the state to do so [to alter that old contract], a permission which will never be granted because no such precedence exists that allows it and one that is unlikely to ever be created! But: through our system of laws, the state still retains the contractual right to enforce capital punishment as they deem fit.

Finally, when you die -from whatever means- yet another state-issued certificate is issued that formally -and finally- dissolves the contract that has existed since your parents were married and you were later born.

BTW: All of this is why common-law marriages are no longer recognized by the majority of states [only 11 still do so]; because they exist outside most rules of contract law and thus cannot not be fully-controlled by the state.

This is also why you must first have a license to operate a motor vehicle and then register any vehicle you purchase and operate. That driver's license is another contract you sign with the state that gives them authority over your "right" to own/operate that vehicle on public roadways.

Whomever said that "life is a vicious circle" certainly knew what they were talking about! And all of this explains why lawyers who specialize in contract law are among the highest-paid in the industry... they have the most to hide -and manipulate!

Last Edited by GSB/LTD on 05/10/2022 09:17 AM

I answered here:

Thread: A question for Pro Abortionists on "My Body, my choice" - What about the baby's body? What about the baby's human rights? (Page 4)

And that was an EXCEPTIONAL answer you provided on page 4! KUDOS to you!

You've pointed out how we unquestioningly accept that we need to be "given" rights and permissions through "licenses".

I had never even stopped to think about birth "certificates". So in the legal system, personhood or human "status" is not active or valid until the moment of birth "certification"?

It would be interesting to see if your legal "rights" are only activate upon birth "certificate" issuance. Maybe it is the case, since your rights as a citizen end upon there being a "death certificate" issued when you die!

These are these staring us right in the face but we miss them because we accept it all as normal. Thanks for taking the time to point this all out, it definitely gives us some great perspective.

Great post

Very kind and likewise, thank you for your great perspective on the contractual aspects of our system. Great contribution to the thread. Thanks again

I answered below:

"I believe God will judge each of us for the wrongs we have done. So yes, in a sense it is between them and their God.

If you have a beautiful brand new Lexus and I see you're using the wrong type of oil or wrong type of fuel or revving a cold engine all the way to redline each time you turn it on - or any number of things which will ruin the car...

I have two ways I can go about it. I can either choose to not give a damn and say it's not my problem. On one level I'd be right. I'm just minding my own business and who cares if you're an idiot and you'll ruin a fine luxury car.

On the other hand, it is wasteful, unnecessary and honestly just a sad thing to see for that to needlessly happen. So at the very least, I'll walk over and say "Listen man, if you keep doing that, you're gonna ruin the car. It's none of my business but in case you didn't know, I wanted to tell you.".

So you don't necessarily have to intervene or get involved in my view, but you can at least tell someone to make sure they understand what they are doing wrong. They can take it or leave it but at least someone told them. It's similar to the concept of informed consent in my view.

I'm not going to ban you from getting an abortion. I'm not even going to hate you for it, even though I think it's wrong. But I am going to tell you that you are ending a human life. A life with a beating heart that is alive and is a human. If you're ok with that, if you still want to do it - fine, go ahead. But I believe you will be judged and you will have to account for it. I pray you come to your senses and understand that it is wrong but I can't stop you.

No God doesn't need any help from me. He doesn't need help in judging what is wrong nor in punishing those wrongs. God is the most fair judge - he knows you better than you know yourself and will give you due process. He will judge you fairly no matter what you did.

So what is the point of me saying anything or trying to stop anything?

God will see that I tried to stop something that was wrong. Maybe in some cases I succeeded and did stop it from happening and changed lives for the better.

I was happy to answer your question. Like you, I dislike when people don't answer them."

You kinda' hit the nail on the head with your question of when a fetus attains recognized status and thus becomes a part of the parental contract with the state. This explains why so much legal debate exists on whether life begins at birth or conception; judicially it's far less a moral issue than it is a legal one since either way it opens the door for a lifetime of control over that new life. The only variables are when the state begins to assume that control and -of course- whether that fetus lives or dies.

BTW: this same control-mechanism also explains why infants are now routinely issued Social Security numbers at birth with few parents even knowing that's it's voluntary and accept it without questioning; and those that do are quickly reminded that the child can be denied federal assistance should the need later arise.

This tactic is called "cooperation via coercion" and is again at the foundation of our governmental systems and -just like the entire certification process- is nothing less than diabolical in scope and remains social slavery regardless of what it's called.

When I was a kid back in the 1950's, you didn't worry about getting that little blue card until you applied for your first job... today there is little choice in the matter and you're in for a lifetime of hassles if you refuse to comply.

Interestingly, when I got my card -and first job- in the 1960's this was boldly printed on the front side: "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION", but today that too has changed and you may need one just to rent an apartment. But one thing has never changed because they still say "THIS CARD BELONGS TO THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION AND YOU MUST RETURN IT IF WE ASK FOR IT."

In essence, they are clearly stating that they have the authority to strip you of your personal identity... just as they've been able to do with life itself.

Last Edited by GSB/LTD on 05/13/2022 11:12 AM