Stock market collapsing | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 82560854 Canada 05/18/2022 10:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | shopping mall foot traffic Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82588706 is down 90% from the post pandemic boom peak goodbye house prices Some days it feels like my wife is single handedly trying to save the local shopping mall. She will spend hours price comparing for avocados but will drop $200 on a pair of shoes. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 82048685 United States 05/18/2022 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We're experiencing a realization about what is valuable. Turns out what's most valuable in a first world monetary based society is EASY access to AFFORDABLE ENERGY. All that stuff in walmart and target is being revalued based on the cost of energy, pricing a portion of the population out of the market for the products and services. It's not an accident. It costs more (energy / money) to extract energy resources from the crust of the Earth than it ever has in history. The easy energy has been extracted. Now, the companies that do the extracting need a price a lot of citizens cannot afford to stay in business. Keep in mind those "profits" they make have to be re-invested in future projects, or flow rates (supply to market) decrease rapidly. That's part of the reason energy has become so expensive. A LOT of investment capital went to projects trying to glorify electrons as an energy source. Investors moved money out of conventional (hydrocarbon) energy into wind mills and solar panels. Now we are seeing the return on those investments. The investment capital for future (todays) production went to "electrify America" projects that don't even provide a fraction of what it takes to run a first world society. So here we are. With an energy supply deficit due to the average investors inability to understand the difference between the energy density of electrons as compared to hydrocarbons. It's like comparing a belt fed machine gun to a water pistol. They're not even in the same category. It is my assertion that the average American is about to decrease their energy utilization by a lot. Whether voluntarily due to concerns for the environment, or due to a lack of available/affordable supply. But that is going to be theme moving forward as best I can tell. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72946100 So peak Oil was right just off by 3 decades. Ok maybe but if that's the case why kill fracking? The consequences of peak Oil are far more devastating than the consequences of the environmental impacts of fracking. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 82588706 Singapore 05/18/2022 10:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83293362 United States 05/18/2022 10:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 47991895 United States 05/18/2022 10:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79565603 United States 05/18/2022 10:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80575336 Portugal 05/18/2022 10:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: T-Man bruh i love you. literally for years ive been saying all of the big things that are happening are all about oil. nothing more. from global warming, lockdowns, shipping issues, travel restrictions etc. Well thank you. I've been watching the energy cost of extraction and historic flow rates for some of the big deposits for over 15yrs now, and the picture hasn't changed much. It's getting more and more expensive to extract the same volume of product as time goes on. Due to extreme conditions at the site, the tech required and the people who analyze that tech, rigs having to be moved more often, the cost of inputs like sand and chemicals. Transport costs, etc. The price of oil on the market has fluctuated, but the general direction of the product seems pretty apparent to me based on the data. One thing that is crucial right now that a lot of people don't understand is that the static in Ukraine right now is due to a squabble over who gets the energy and metals that are still subsurface. Western investors plunked down on building the energy infrastructure (think HBiden on the Burisma gas board at 80k a month with no education or experience in the industry, but 10% for the big guy) then Russia came in after the projects were either finished or well on their way and said "no, actually those resources belong to Russia". So Western investors are set to loose a HUGE return on investment in Ukraines energy and metal extraction activity if Russia takes over the infrastructure they've just funded. It's not about freedom or democracy. It's about Western investors fighting Russia over who gets the energy and metals. Western investors or Russia. It's exiting. Interesting and thought provoking. Likely some truth here. I agree. One must look far and wide around here anymore to get good intelligent and informative comments like the ones above! Ha Ha Ha Club of Rome See the 70's Ha Ha Ha |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72558093 United States 05/18/2022 10:17 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Was at my local Walmart yesterday...it was empty .. skeleton crew working..I use to work there myself...I figured middle of the month, everyone's broke..but even for the middle of the month it was deserted...if people had money to spend, they'd be in there doing so...I was a cashier during the first few stimulus..it was crazy busy... people are BROKE , SICK OR DEAD Quoting: Halfbreedgal 83276748 That's a good example of people being "priced out" of the liquid fuel club. I suspect before too long retail gasoline will become prohibitively expensive for some people. People aren't going to go to walmart as much to buy all the Chinese trinkets. Either due to them not being there because of shipping / supply line problems, or because the price increased beyond what the shopper can justify paying. When the cost of energy goes up, everything else goes up right along with it. People arent driving any less at $5 gass..traffic is even higher...buss tickets are $3 ..if they go any higher noone will ride them..even $3 one way is a rip...imagine 5$ one way....no way |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72558093 United States 05/18/2022 10:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Was at my local Walmart yesterday...it was empty .. skeleton crew working..I use to work there myself...I figured middle of the month, everyone's broke..but even for the middle of the month it was deserted...if people had money to spend, they'd be in there doing so...I was a cashier during the first few stimulus..it was crazy busy... people are BROKE , SICK OR DEAD Quoting: Halfbreedgal 83276748 That's a good example of people being "priced out" of the liquid fuel club. I suspect before too long retail gasoline will become prohibitively expensive for some people. People aren't going to go to walmart as much to buy all the Chinese trinkets. Either due to them not being there because of shipping / supply line problems, or because the price increased beyond what the shopper can justify paying. When the cost of energy goes up, everything else goes up right along with it. People arent driving any less at $5 gass..traffic is even higher...buss tickets are $3 ..if they go any higher noone will ride them..even $3 one way is a rip...imagine 5$ one way....no way |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 73787282 United States 05/18/2022 10:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83295475 United States 05/18/2022 10:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72946100 United States 05/18/2022 10:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Walmart dropped like 12% after reporting earning yesterday. Largest retailer in America. Target down 23% after reporting earning this morning. You can’t have a growing economy without consumer spending. These two companies are probably the best indicator of consumer spending. Roughly 70% of our economy is driven by consumers. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78985001 The buried lead here is that Walmart has 23% less business. So, where did all those people go? Food banks and Goodwill. It's most likely the poorer customers who have to start cutting back due to the cost of energy. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83295475 United States 05/18/2022 10:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72946100 United States 05/18/2022 10:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We're experiencing a realization about what is valuable. Turns out what's most valuable in a first world monetary based society is EASY access to AFFORDABLE ENERGY. All that stuff in walmart and target is being revalued based on the cost of energy, pricing a portion of the population out of the market for the products and services. It's not an accident. It costs more (energy / money) to extract energy resources from the crust of the Earth than it ever has in history. The easy energy has been extracted. Now, the companies that do the extracting need a price a lot of citizens cannot afford to stay in business. Keep in mind those "profits" they make have to be re-invested in future projects, or flow rates (supply to market) decrease rapidly. That's part of the reason energy has become so expensive. A LOT of investment capital went to projects trying to glorify electrons as an energy source. Investors moved money out of conventional (hydrocarbon) energy into wind mills and solar panels. Now we are seeing the return on those investments. The investment capital for future (todays) production went to "electrify America" projects that don't even provide a fraction of what it takes to run a first world society. So here we are. With an energy supply deficit due to the average investors inability to understand the difference between the energy density of electrons as compared to hydrocarbons. It's like comparing a belt fed machine gun to a water pistol. They're not even in the same category. It is my assertion that the average American is about to decrease their energy utilization by a lot. Whether voluntarily due to concerns for the environment, or due to a lack of available/affordable supply. But that is going to be theme moving forward as best I can tell. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72946100 So peak Oil was right just off by 3 decades. Ok maybe but if that's the case why kill fracking? The consequences of peak Oil are far more devastating than the consequences of the environmental impacts of fracking. Because fracking as an industry is a net energy loser. It takes more energy to power the project than you get out of having done that. The fracking industry as a whole has NEVER turned a profit. Look it up. Small individual companies can turn a profit on small wells with microscopic flow rates, but the industry as a whole is not profitable. That's why the consolidation, bankruptcies, mass firings, the production slow down, etc. People started to realize fracking (at least at breakneck rates) wasn't going to make money. So, a lot of capital recently has gone from fracking and solar/wind mills to deep water. The fact is, the easy / cheap energy has been extracted. What remains costs more. A LOT more. So prices go up. Monetary based system of governance. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72946100 United States 05/18/2022 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Was at my local Walmart yesterday...it was empty .. skeleton crew working..I use to work there myself...I figured middle of the month, everyone's broke..but even for the middle of the month it was deserted...if people had money to spend, they'd be in there doing so...I was a cashier during the first few stimulus..it was crazy busy... people are BROKE , SICK OR DEAD Quoting: Halfbreedgal 83276748 That's a good example of people being "priced out" of the liquid fuel club. I suspect before too long retail gasoline will become prohibitively expensive for some people. People aren't going to go to walmart as much to buy all the Chinese trinkets. Either due to them not being there because of shipping / supply line problems, or because the price increased beyond what the shopper can justify paying. When the cost of energy goes up, everything else goes up right along with it. People arent driving any less at $5 gass..traffic is even higher...buss tickets are $3 ..if they go any higher noone will ride them..even $3 one way is a rip...imagine 5$ one way....no way An excellent example of how high energy prices will / does / has reduced liquid fuel demand. Those passengers that will forgo their bus ride are the portion of the population that are being priced out of the "liquid fuel" club. Bike or walk now. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80320766 United States 05/18/2022 10:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80154459 United States 05/18/2022 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80154459 United States 05/18/2022 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We're experiencing a realization about what is valuable. Turns out what's most valuable in a first world monetary based society is EASY access to AFFORDABLE ENERGY. All that stuff in walmart and target is being revalued based on the cost of energy, pricing a portion of the population out of the market for the products and services. It's not an accident. It costs more (energy / money) to extract energy resources from the crust of the Earth than it ever has in history. The easy energy has been extracted. Now, the companies that do the extracting need a price a lot of citizens cannot afford to stay in business. Keep in mind those "profits" they make have to be re-invested in future projects, or flow rates (supply to market) decrease rapidly. That's part of the reason energy has become so expensive. A LOT of investment capital went to projects trying to glorify electrons as an energy source. Investors moved money out of conventional (hydrocarbon) energy into wind mills and solar panels. Now we are seeing the return on those investments. The investment capital for future (todays) production went to "electrify America" projects that don't even provide a fraction of what it takes to run a first world society. So here we are. With an energy supply deficit due to the average investors inability to understand the difference between the energy density of electrons as compared to hydrocarbons. It's like comparing a belt fed machine gun to a water pistol. They're not even in the same category. It is my assertion that the average American is about to decrease their energy utilization by a lot. Whether voluntarily due to concerns for the environment, or due to a lack of available/affordable supply. But that is going to be theme moving forward as best I can tell. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72946100 So peak Oil was right just off by 3 decades. Ok maybe but if that's the case why kill fracking? The consequences of peak Oil are far more devastating than the consequences of the environmental impacts of fracking. Because fracking as an industry is a net energy loser. It takes more energy to power the project than you get out of having done that. The fracking industry as a whole has NEVER turned a profit. Look it up. Small individual companies can turn a profit on small wells with microscopic flow rates, but the industry as a whole is not profitable. That's why the consolidation, bankruptcies, mass firings, the production slow down, etc. People started to realize fracking (at least at breakneck rates) wasn't going to make money. So, a lot of capital recently has gone from fracking and solar/wind mills to deep water. The fact is, the easy / cheap energy has been extracted. What remains costs more. A LOT more. So prices go up. Monetary based system of governance. It was a nice attempt to slow the loss of US dollar reserve currency status. It bought the US a decade or so. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72946100 United States 05/18/2022 10:37 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83295475 United States 05/18/2022 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80575336 Portugal 05/18/2022 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72946100 United States 05/18/2022 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | We're experiencing a realization about what is valuable. Turns out what's most valuable in a first world monetary based society is EASY access to AFFORDABLE ENERGY. All that stuff in walmart and target is being revalued based on the cost of energy, pricing a portion of the population out of the market for the products and services. It's not an accident. It costs more (energy / money) to extract energy resources from the crust of the Earth than it ever has in history. The easy energy has been extracted. Now, the companies that do the extracting need a price a lot of citizens cannot afford to stay in business. Keep in mind those "profits" they make have to be re-invested in future projects, or flow rates (supply to market) decrease rapidly. That's part of the reason energy has become so expensive. A LOT of investment capital went to projects trying to glorify electrons as an energy source. Investors moved money out of conventional (hydrocarbon) energy into wind mills and solar panels. Now we are seeing the return on those investments. The investment capital for future (todays) production went to "electrify America" projects that don't even provide a fraction of what it takes to run a first world society. So here we are. With an energy supply deficit due to the average investors inability to understand the difference between the energy density of electrons as compared to hydrocarbons. It's like comparing a belt fed machine gun to a water pistol. They're not even in the same category. It is my assertion that the average American is about to decrease their energy utilization by a lot. Whether voluntarily due to concerns for the environment, or due to a lack of available/affordable supply. But that is going to be theme moving forward as best I can tell. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72946100 So peak Oil was right just off by 3 decades. Ok maybe but if that's the case why kill fracking? The consequences of peak Oil are far more devastating than the consequences of the environmental impacts of fracking. Because fracking as an industry is a net energy loser. It takes more energy to power the project than you get out of having done that. The fracking industry as a whole has NEVER turned a profit. Look it up. Small individual companies can turn a profit on small wells with microscopic flow rates, but the industry as a whole is not profitable. That's why the consolidation, bankruptcies, mass firings, the production slow down, etc. People started to realize fracking (at least at breakneck rates) wasn't going to make money. So, a lot of capital recently has gone from fracking and solar/wind mills to deep water. The fact is, the easy / cheap energy has been extracted. What remains costs more. A LOT more. So prices go up. Monetary based system of governance. It was a nice attempt to slow the loss of US dollar reserve currency status. It bought the US a decade or so. Probably. That would make sense. They were able to get LOTS of energy out of the ground, but weren't making any money doing it. So eventually investors backed out (very upset) and the industry shrunk very quickly. I don't think we'll see anything like that again. Without massive subsidies, or some way to stay profitable. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83295475 United States 05/18/2022 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 72587539 United States 05/18/2022 10:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80357478 United Kingdom 05/18/2022 10:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 80357478 United Kingdom 05/18/2022 10:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79335168 United States 05/18/2022 10:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78152436 United States 05/18/2022 10:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Don Draper from Nantucket
User ID: 80692948 United States 05/18/2022 10:50 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 82048685 So peak Oil was right just off by 3 decades. Ok maybe but if that's the case why kill fracking? The consequences of peak Oil are far more devastating than the consequences of the environmental impacts of fracking. Because fracking as an industry is a net energy loser. It takes more energy to power the project than you get out of having done that. The fracking industry as a whole has NEVER turned a profit. Look it up. Small individual companies can turn a profit on small wells with microscopic flow rates, but the industry as a whole is not profitable. That's why the consolidation, bankruptcies, mass firings, the production slow down, etc. People started to realize fracking (at least at breakneck rates) wasn't going to make money. So, a lot of capital recently has gone from fracking and solar/wind mills to deep water. The fact is, the easy / cheap energy has been extracted. What remains costs more. A LOT more. So prices go up. Monetary based system of governance. It was a nice attempt to slow the loss of US dollar reserve currency status. It bought the US a decade or so. Probably. That would make sense. They were able to get LOTS of energy out of the ground, but weren't making any money doing it. So eventually investors backed out (very upset) and the industry shrunk very quickly. I don't think we'll see anything like that again. Without massive subsidies, or some way to stay profitable. Are you familiar with the behemoth cracker plant in Monaca Pa? What in your opinion will become of that city sized monstrosity? PLATA BITCHEZZZZZZ UPGRADE UNAVAILABLE The Rolling Stones said it best... "What's confusing you is the nature of my game" |
Don Draper from Nantucket
User ID: 80692948 United States 05/18/2022 10:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |