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Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events

 
Guythu

User ID: 46575734
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09/21/2022 08:38 PM
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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Iran about to implode

Incredible video of protesters in Iran destroying security vehicles. We’ve never seen these kinds of images in previous protests. The Iranian people’s quest for accountability remains the greatest fear of the mullahcracy of terror.


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dyin

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Canada
09/21/2022 09:18 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Iran about to implode

Incredible video of protesters in Iran destroying security vehicles. We’ve never seen these kinds of images in previous protests. The Iranian people’s quest for accountability remains the greatest fear of the mullahcracy of terror.


[link to mobile.twitter.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Guythu


Coming to a country near you

verydamned

Things are getting really explosive out there
Truth never damages a cause that is just
Riff-Raff  (OP)

User ID: 78505179
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09/21/2022 09:43 PM
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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Putin has made a direct threat to use nuclear weapons in response to attacks on Russian territory, and NATO has issued a response to that threat.

Putin has lost his ever-loving mind. He's putting a nuclear response on the table for conventional attacks on Russian territory. The only conceivable reason to do this NOW is to justify nuclear strikes against Ukraine if they continue attacking Russian forces in SE Ukraine.

The Director is out of town and out of communication, so it falls to me to make the decision to raise the DEFCON level or not for the next few days.

Gotta admit, that decision is a hell of a lot more stressful than I thought it would be.
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


What are the options?

It really seems like nothing is really different from the beginning of the week, to me. Putin has been threatening nukes for some time. Has there been any major movement that is new?

Idk, but I'm glad it's not my decision! Sorry for the giggle.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


No worries. I'm used to women laughing at me. tounge

The difference is now he has the Russian State Duma behind him and he's calling up reservists at the same time he's making these threats.

On the other hand, you're right and he's been threatening nukes for months now without following through.

Having a staff meeting now.
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


I still stand by my belief:

Putin will achieve his goals, or die. Nothing in the middle.

Now, exactly what those goals are? Only he knows, but he's willing to burn us all to get there.
 Quoting: Lady Jane Smith


I fully agree with that assessment. The difficult part is trying to figure out when the rhetoric will turn into reality.
"Collapse is a process, not an event." - Unknown

"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." - Terminator 2

"Risking my life for people I hate for reasons I don't understand." - Riff-Raff

Deputy Director - DEFCON Warning System
Texan Buckeye

User ID: 82234537
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09/21/2022 09:55 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.

Last Edited by Texan Buckeye on 09/21/2022 09:56 PM
Moniker Shmoniker

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09/22/2022 10:42 AM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
TB, sorry about the house, but glad you didn't end up with all those problems the inspection found!
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 10:49 AM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
TB, sorry about the house, but glad you didn't end up with all those problems the inspection found!
 Quoting: Moniker Shmoniker


Thanks Moni, we are too! Mr. TB said it was probably the best $375 he ever spent.

Now, the sellers want to "negotiate". Nope. They flipped the house and did it cheaply. They had to know the plumbing was bad, at least.

It's a shame, too. It's a pretty house with lots of character and in a great area. If we were younger, we might have renegotiated. We just can't do the work involved ourselves anymore. Pulling and replacing drywall needs lots of muscle.
Moniker Shmoniker

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09/22/2022 10:51 AM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Bad driving and distracted driving have definitely increased.

It used to be in Tx that you had to have a yearly state inspection of your vehicle where the inspector actually drove your car. Now a days, you basically pull up honk, blinkers, wipers, and break light.

And people are always asking where is the easiest place to pass inspection! So probably more sketchy vehicles driving out there than ever.
Riff-Raff  (OP)

User ID: 79757665
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09/22/2022 02:24 PM
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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


I pretty much agree with this assessment. The only thing I'm not sure about is the scope. Will it be small exchange and then cooler heads prevail? Or will it escalate to a full nuclear exchange, including our population centers?

I know that once the first nuclear weapon is detonated - especially if it's in Europe - we will have precious little time to react here in the US. So, ask yourself: "If a nuclear war happened tomorrow, do I have everything I need to be self-sufficient for at least six months, if not a year?" If the answer is "no," fix that deficiency immediately.

Understand that Indiana could go completely unscathed in a Russian/NATO nuclear exchange, and we would still need to be self-sufficient for an extended period of time. The panic and chaos that will follow a nuclear detonation on US soil will be unlike anything Americans have ever seen, and will make 9/11 look like vehicle collision by comparison. Multiply that by however many detonations there are on US soil, and the panic and chaos grows exponentially. Get home as soon as you can by any means and then stay there.

If anyone wants a map of nuclear targets for their state, let me know. I've been working on one for the entire country, but I only have the Midwest done so far. It will show minimum safe distance for no third-degree burns if flesh is exposed to the thermal pulse. Flash blindness is still possible, though. It does *not* include fallout patterns because wind direction and speed is too variable to predict that. Generally speaking, fallout will move from west to east across the US, with areas just downwind of our missile silos getting the worst of it.

You would think we would have learned our lesson in 1962. But noooooo...
"Collapse is a process, not an event." - Unknown

"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." - Terminator 2

"Risking my life for people I hate for reasons I don't understand." - Riff-Raff

Deputy Director - DEFCON Warning System
Lady Jane SmithModerator
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09/22/2022 04:02 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I think we are in greater jeopardy now than during Bay of Pigs.
Fate whispers to the warrior

"You cannot withstand the storm"

the warrior whispers back

"I am the storm"

INTJ-A

Killer Bunny
Guythu

User ID: 46611139
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09/22/2022 05:30 PM
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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye



If anyone wants a map of nuclear targets for their state, let me know...
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


Riff - I wouldn’t mind seeing for Ohio and Kentucky.
Pretty sure I’m screwed, or perhaps lucky depending on one’s perspective
Moniker Shmoniker

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09/22/2022 05:32 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I would be a goner. No need to prepare.
Texan Buckeye

User ID: 82234537
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09/22/2022 05:38 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


I pretty much agree with this assessment. The only thing I'm not sure about is the scope. Will it be small exchange and then cooler heads prevail? Or will it escalate to a full nuclear exchange, including our population centers?

I know that once the first nuclear weapon is detonated - especially if it's in Europe - we will have precious little time to react here in the US. So, ask yourself: "If a nuclear war happened tomorrow, do I have everything I need to be self-sufficient for at least six months, if not a year?" If the answer is "no," fix that deficiency immediately.

Understand that Indiana could go completely unscathed in a Russian/NATO nuclear exchange, and we would still need to be self-sufficient for an extended period of time. The panic and chaos that will follow a nuclear detonation on US soil will be unlike anything Americans have ever seen, and will make 9/11 look like vehicle collision by comparison. Multiply that by however many detonations there are on US soil, and the panic and chaos grows exponentially. Get home as soon as you can by any means and then stay there.

If anyone wants a map of nuclear targets for their state, let me know. I've been working on one for the entire country, but I only have the Midwest done so far. It will show minimum safe distance for no third-degree burns if flesh is exposed to the thermal pulse. Flash blindness is still possible, though. It does *not* include fallout patterns because wind direction and speed is too variable to predict that. Generally speaking, fallout will move from west to east across the US, with areas just downwind of our missile silos getting the worst of it.

You would think we would have learned our lesson in 1962. But noooooo...
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


My whole thing is even if one small one goes off, other countries won't hold back. They may wait a few hours or a day to assess, if we're lucky. Maybe I'm too much a child of the nuclear age, but it's always been the large monster in the closet. I really hope I'm wrong.
JAZZz50

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09/22/2022 06:06 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye



If anyone wants a map of nuclear targets for their state, let me know...
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


Riff - I wouldn’t mind seeing for Ohio and Kentucky.
Pretty sure I’m screwed, or perhaps lucky depending on one’s perspective
 Quoting: Guythu


i'm in a triangle of poss. targets including the US largest bullet producer. there are missle silos in the Finger Lakes under water to the north also.
JAZZZ50

2020 The SHTF literally as TP ran out.

we went from being over the target, to actually being the target. too close to the truth.


if i had a dollar for everytime someone says "merge" without using the word, i'd b so green i'd b King of Mars.
Texan Buckeye

User ID: 82234537
United States
09/22/2022 06:14 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I said early on, on CC's thread, that war was coming and it would come to our shores. I also said that Russia had nukes and would use them on us here. Back then, that statement was pretty much ignored.

Now, we see war and I still believe it will come to our shores this time and we will be nuked. I have no intel and none of us wants to know what my remaining uncles would say. Well, maybe one of them. The other is a mean ass and has dementia.

Guys, this is no game. The oceans will not protect us. Technology is so far advanced from what it was in WWII.

Get your affairs and preps in order. We don't know when, but I know it will happen.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye



If anyone wants a map of nuclear targets for their state, let me know...
 Quoting: Riff-Raff


Riff - I wouldn’t mind seeing for Ohio and Kentucky.
Pretty sure I’m screwed, or perhaps lucky depending on one’s perspective
 Quoting: Guythu


i'm in a triangle of poss. targets including the US largest bullet producer. there are missle silos in the Finger Lakes under water to the north also.
 Quoting: JAZZz50


I really don't know what the targets could be in Ohio, except Wright-Pat. Somewhere I read that Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit would be, but other than Detroit, I don't see why the other 2. Maybe the auto industry? Sandusky does have what used to be called Plum Brook for NASA. I think it's been renamed for John Glenn now.
~Jazzy~Moderator
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09/22/2022 06:19 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I have my own ideas about Putin.

Suffice it to say, he isn't going to stop with Ukraine and he will win. His march across the planet is far from over.

There is only one ending to this and it isn't by human hands.

Hope I'm not butting in.

Thanks for listening.
To know where your heart is, look where your mind goes when it wanders.

A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It isn't about the rock.

A true warrior fights not because he hates the one in front of him, but because he loves those behind him.

INTP-A
Lady Jane SmithModerator
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09/22/2022 06:20 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I have my own ideas about Putin.

Suffice it to say, he isn't going to stop with Ukraine and he will win. His march across the planet is far from over.

There is only one ending to this and it isn't by human hands.

Hope I'm not butting in.

Thanks for listening.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


I think most on this thread will pretty much agree.

I do.
Fate whispers to the warrior

"You cannot withstand the storm"

the warrior whispers back

"I am the storm"

INTJ-A

Killer Bunny
~Jazzy~Moderator
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09/22/2022 06:22 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I have my own ideas about Putin.

Suffice it to say, he isn't going to stop with Ukraine and he will win. His march across the planet is far from over.

There is only one ending to this and it isn't by human hands.

Hope I'm not butting in.

Thanks for listening.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


I think most on this thread will pretty much agree.

I do.
 Quoting: Lady Jane Smith


He's the head of the beast that was promised long ago.
To know where your heart is, look where your mind goes when it wanders.

A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It isn't about the rock.

A true warrior fights not because he hates the one in front of him, but because he loves those behind him.

INTP-A
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 06:25 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I have my own ideas about Putin.

Suffice it to say, he isn't going to stop with Ukraine and he will win. His march across the planet is far from over.

There is only one ending to this and it isn't by human hands.

Hope I'm not butting in.

Thanks for listening.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


I think most on this thread will pretty much agree.

I do.
 Quoting: Lady Jane Smith


He's the head of the beast that was promised long ago.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


That he won't stop with Ukraine is the only explanation I can see for the large call up. I've read the actual numbers will be at least a million. Idk.

I know what you're talking about Jazzie and I agree.
ACME_MAN

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09/22/2022 06:34 PM
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Where's my coffee damn it?!! ; )
Dedicated to the brave men who fought and laid down their lives on the beaches of Normandy and the plains of Europe . . . that their sacrifice was not in vain.

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Lady Jane SmithModerator
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09/22/2022 06:38 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Where's my coffee damn it?!! ; )
 Quoting: ACME_MAN


Rose Coffee
Fate whispers to the warrior

"You cannot withstand the storm"

the warrior whispers back

"I am the storm"

INTJ-A

Killer Bunny
~Jazzy~Moderator
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09/22/2022 06:40 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
I have my own ideas about Putin.

Suffice it to say, he isn't going to stop with Ukraine and he will win. His march across the planet is far from over.

There is only one ending to this and it isn't by human hands.

Hope I'm not butting in.

Thanks for listening.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


I think most on this thread will pretty much agree.

I do.
 Quoting: Lady Jane Smith


He's the head of the beast that was promised long ago.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


That he won't stop with Ukraine is the only explanation I can see for the large call up. I've read the actual numbers will be at least a million. Idk.

I know what you're talking about Jazzie and I agree.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


It never was about Ukraine. It has always been about taking down the West and restoring the USSR as the sole superpower. Putin sees himself as the one to do that. He's possessed....literally. BRICS was the beginning.

The deadly wound that was healed.

Last Edited by ~Jazzy~ on 09/22/2022 06:41 PM
To know where your heart is, look where your mind goes when it wanders.

A rock in bad hands killed Abel. A rock in good hands killed Goliath. It isn't about the rock.

A true warrior fights not because he hates the one in front of him, but because he loves those behind him.

INTP-A
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 07:01 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Where's my coffee damn it?!! ; )
 Quoting: ACME_MAN


You gotta come here and get it. Sorry, I don't deliver! LJ is nicer than I am! LOL
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 07:06 PM

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...


I think most on this thread will pretty much agree.

I do.
 Quoting: Lady Jane Smith


He's the head of the beast that was promised long ago.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


That he won't stop with Ukraine is the only explanation I can see for the large call up. I've read the actual numbers will be at least a million. Idk.

I know what you're talking about Jazzie and I agree.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


It never was about Ukraine. It has always been about taking down the West and restoring the USSR as the sole superpower. Putin sees himself as the one to do that. He's possessed....literally. BRICS was the beginning.

The deadly wound that was healed.
 Quoting: ~Jazzy~


You know, when I was first diagnosed, I was kind of rattled that all of this was finally happening and I'd be down for the count. I have to say now I have a different perspective on it all. I know I most likely won't be a physical player in it and it's interesting to sit back and watch it all play out.

I'm pretty sure I won't think that when it gets here,
though. Universe changing history happening right now.
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 07:40 PM

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For everyone down south.




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Larry D. Croc

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09/22/2022 07:55 PM

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Thanks everyone! We should be able to be moved in by the end of next month.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


What a relief that must be. All the best to you and your husband, TB, you deserve it.
"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell, where they already have it." Ronald Reagan

The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan
Larry D. Croc

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09/22/2022 08:01 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
By the way, I just purchased the first three 10-foot sections of a 60-foot mast for my planned EOTW antenna array. Technically, it will be closer to 55 feet after the base gets buried in cement, but that's still plenty tall enough! Planning to mount the following devices on it:

1: High Frequency shortwave antenna for global communications
2: Dual-band 2-meter and 70-centimeter antenna for county and state communications
3: Citizen's Band antenna for local communications
4: Multi-band receiver antenna
5: 3 TV antennae, pointed at Indianapolis, Louisville, and Cincinnati
6: 4 wireless remote cameras providing 360-degree coverage of horizon
7: Remote weather station

It will be buried in three to five feet of concrete and anchored 20 feet up at the peak of my barn roof, which means it should pretty much survive any wind gust even without guy wires. Anything strong enough to take down the mast is going be strong enough to take the barn with it.

I plan on getting the first two sections up with just the roof anchors this weekend so I can get it plumb and mark the hole to be dug. I'll get it set in cement before winter hits, add the third section and then let it sit all winter before adding the last three sections and putting a load on it sometime next year.

I'll try to post photos as I go.
 Quoting: Riff-Raff



It'll be interesting to see the progress of the project.
"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell, where they already have it." Ronald Reagan

The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan
Larry D. Croc

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09/22/2022 08:30 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Been absent for some days now. Had to drive from Wisconsin to Massachusetts and back. Youngest stepson (28) got married. His new wife's family is all from the Connecticut area and have apparently vacationed on Martha's Vineyard for 30 years so that's where the wedding was held.

Random observations on our trip through Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, northern New York, and Massachusetts, in no particular order.

Lowest gas prices were here in Wisconsin. Highest by a good 10% were in New York. Used about 80 gallons of fuel in all and ended up with an average prices of $3.79. The good news was the car got an average of 32 mpg.

Illinois remains the epicenter of road construction. New York and Massachusetts had a lot of the orange "road work ahead" signs mounted but in a lot of cases there was no work at all being conducted.

Stopped just past Syracuse our first night out at a place called Turning Stone. Haven't been to Las Vegas since our granddaughter was born four years ago (it's where we married and had been where we went to celebrate our anniversary every August) so I picked Turning Stone for it's casino. Didn't have a reservation but they had rooms. Won enough dinking around on the slots that the room and our dinner cost us a net of $65, heh heh.

From there to the ferry was a more choppy drive based on the route we had to travel through Cape Cod, etc.

New York seems to like posting road signs that spell out their laws on driving more than any state I've been in. As in "do this twice and it's an automatic license suspension", etc.

Tolls, tolls, tolls, spare me from tolls. Spent well over $100 on the EZ Pass. Enough already.

Stopped in Cooperstown this past Monday on our way back. IF one is a fan of baseball it's not to be missed. Headed from there to Cleveland where we spent part of Tuesday at the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. Again, not to be missed.

Drove from Cleveland to Lafayette, Indiana so I could look at where my birth mother grew up. Got to visit her final resting place; her cremains are buried at the foot of my grandparent's graves in West Lafayette.

I'd estimate 2-4% of the people we saw on the trip were masked. Our route, other than Chicago, didn't take us through any major metro areas. Got caught up in stadium traffic late Monday afternoon in the Buffalo area.

Didn't really hear any casual conversations in our travels about Covid, energy issues, or Russia/Ukraine. Oddly enough didn't hear one word about DeSantis sending illegals to Martha's Vineyard even though they arrived, via plane apparently, just hours before we took the car ferry to the island.

Good to be back home and to "see" you all again.
"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell, where they already have it." Ronald Reagan

The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan
JAZZz50

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09/22/2022 08:56 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
glad u had a good trip,CROC. u coulda took I86 across NY along the PA border and bypassed much of the tolls on the turnpike to the north.
JAZZZ50

2020 The SHTF literally as TP ran out.

we went from being over the target, to actually being the target. too close to the truth.


if i had a dollar for everytime someone says "merge" without using the word, i'd b so green i'd b King of Mars.
Texan Buckeye

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09/22/2022 09:10 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Thanks everyone! We should be able to be moved in by the end of next month.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


What a relief that must be. All the best to you and your husband, TB, you deserve it.
 Quoting: Larry D. Croc


It would have been, but the house totally failed the inspection. It was one of the sneakiest flips I've seen.

That's ok. Looking at 2 more tomorrow.

Thanks for the good thoughts!
Larry D. Croc

User ID: 70736097
United States
09/22/2022 09:52 PM

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Re: Coffee Crowd for Civilized Discourse on World Events
Thanks everyone! We should be able to be moved in by the end of next month.
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye


What a relief that must be. All the best to you and your husband, TB, you deserve it.
 Quoting: Larry D. Croc


It would have been, but the house totally failed the inspection. It was one of the sneakiest flips I've seen.

That's ok. Looking at 2 more tomorrow.

Thanks for the good thoughts!
 Quoting: Texan Buckeye



Yeah, sorry for the premature congrats. It DID sound promising, sorry the sellers were snakes.
"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell, where they already have it." Ronald Reagan

The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan





GLP