Dow going pow today! Down below -600 | |
A_T_L
User ID: 80864747 United States 07/14/2022 11:19 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77950187 United States 07/14/2022 11:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 38358496 United States 07/14/2022 11:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The "market" can only thrive within its ability to make CHEAP AFFORDABLE energy readily available to citizens. That is going away. This is an "adjustment". The meat isn't scarce. The lumber isn't scarce. The liquid fuel to run the farms and the trucks is. Well...liquid fuel isn't "scarce" per se. It has become too expensive to extract and bring to market for most people to afford. In a capitalistic monetary based economy built and run on liquid fuels, that just doesn't work. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79844162 So the idea is that the "liquid fuel" club needs to get smaller and smaller (which is bad for WallSt), so only people who can afford to pay will get the "stuff". The meat. The lumber. The transportation. The healthcare. The technology. All the energy intensive services and activities we've become accustomed to are about to become a luxury only the super wealthy have access to. It has to do with energy. Primarily the cost (energy and monetary) of extraction. The oil based civilization is winding down. Rich folks want that lumber for their kids to be able to buy. So they're increasing the price of lumber (and anything else of value) to ensure their kids can have the fossil fuel lifestyle. But in order to do that, they have to price a segment of the population out of the market. So the product remains, it's just too expensive for most people to afford. It costs more to find, extract, and bring to market hydrocarbon fuel than they can ask people to pay without wrecking the economy. If you find the graph (there are a few good ones) of the price energy companies can afford to pay to extract the product, and the price the consumer can afford to pay for it, those lines have now crossed. The energy companies need more money to stay in business than the average person can afford to pay for their product. Rich folks have seen this coming for years, and it looks like they've finally decided it's time to tighten up what is available (affordable) to who. Personal transport, and air travel are on their way out for the average person. The electric initiative will fail to maintain expected living standards, and they know it. There is nothing that comes close to the energy density and convenience hydrocarbons provide. All the hype about "electrify America" is just so they can say they tried, and hopefully people will not get too riled up when they realize they no longer belong to the "single mode transport" club. Mass transit, bike, or walk for middle class very soon. Absent a solution that I haven't seen, the "winding down" will continue. Technology is not energy. Technology REQUIRES energy. The problem is geological, and the elites know that the clock is ticking. I've watched this coming for over 15yrs. The "shale miracle" bought us about 2 yrs. Now we're sitting back where we were around 08-09. With a lot of bankrupt shale companies and angry/broke investors. Getting back to "normal" isn't going to look at all like what people think. What we've been doing the last 150yrs or so isn't "normal". What's normal is what we are moving toward, and most people have no idea what's involved. But I suspect it will involve a lot of gardening. amazing insight |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77950187 United States 07/14/2022 11:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78765804 United States 07/14/2022 11:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 12:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The "market" can only thrive within its ability to make CHEAP AFFORDABLE energy readily available to citizens. That is going away. This is an "adjustment". The meat isn't scarce. The lumber isn't scarce. The liquid fuel to run the farms and the trucks is. Well...liquid fuel isn't "scarce" per se. It has become too expensive to extract and bring to market for most people to afford. In a capitalistic monetary based economy built and run on liquid fuels, that just doesn't work. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79844162 So the idea is that the "liquid fuel" club needs to get smaller and smaller (which is bad for WallSt), so only people who can afford to pay will get the "stuff". The meat. The lumber. The transportation. The healthcare. The technology. All the energy intensive services and activities we've become accustomed to are about to become a luxury only the super wealthy have access to. It has to do with energy. Primarily the cost (energy and monetary) of extraction. The oil based civilization is winding down. Rich folks want that lumber for their kids to be able to buy. So they're increasing the price of lumber (and anything else of value) to ensure their kids can have the fossil fuel lifestyle. But in order to do that, they have to price a segment of the population out of the market. So the product remains, it's just too expensive for most people to afford. It costs more to find, extract, and bring to market hydrocarbon fuel than they can ask people to pay without wrecking the economy. If you find the graph (there are a few good ones) of the price energy companies can afford to pay to extract the product, and the price the consumer can afford to pay for it, those lines have now crossed. The energy companies need more money to stay in business than the average person can afford to pay for their product. Rich folks have seen this coming for years, and it looks like they've finally decided it's time to tighten up what is available (affordable) to who. Personal transport, and air travel are on their way out for the average person. The electric initiative will fail to maintain expected living standards, and they know it. There is nothing that comes close to the energy density and convenience hydrocarbons provide. All the hype about "electrify America" is just so they can say they tried, and hopefully people will not get too riled up when they realize they no longer belong to the "single mode transport" club. Mass transit, bike, or walk for middle class very soon. Absent a solution that I haven't seen, the "winding down" will continue. Technology is not energy. Technology REQUIRES energy. The problem is geological, and the elites know that the clock is ticking. I've watched this coming for over 15yrs. The "shale miracle" bought us about 2 yrs. Now we're sitting back where we were around 08-09. With a lot of bankrupt shale companies and angry/broke investors. Getting back to "normal" isn't going to look at all like what people think. What we've been doing the last 150yrs or so isn't "normal". What's normal is what we are moving toward, and most people have no idea what's involved. But I suspect it will involve a lot of gardening. amazing insight I would appreciate any data to suggest anything I've asserted is incorrect. I hate when I'm right. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83755619 United States 07/14/2022 12:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83755619 United States 07/14/2022 12:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 12:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It's a powerful distraction, but "electric" anything isn't the problem or solution. The problem is the availability of CHEAP AFFORDABLE READILY AVAILABLE ENERGY in the form of hydrocarbon LIQUID FUELS. We've built a civilization, and living conditions that REQUIRE cheap, easily available liquid fuels. That is going away due to geology. All you have to do is look at the data. It's painfully obvious to anyone who follows the energy markets for over a decade. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83384366 Mexico 07/14/2022 12:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Maddrummerboy
User ID: 81952052 United States 07/14/2022 12:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Maddrummerboy
User ID: 81952052 United States 07/14/2022 12:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Last Edited by Maddrummerboy on 07/14/2022 12:32 PM |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 12:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. |
Maddrummerboy
User ID: 81952052 United States 07/14/2022 12:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. sounds depressing as hell |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 01:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. sounds depressing as hell I don't like it, but it is what it is. People have been calling this out for decades. People claimed they were "crying wolf", but don't forget in the end of the story the wolf DOES show up. End of Suburbia Crude Awakening There Is No Tomorrow The End of Oil Matthew Simmons James Howard Kunstler Kenneth Deffeyes Richard Heinberg Gail Tverberg etc People have been trying to get the point across for decades, and here we are. Right where a lot of people never thought we'd be. We're out of time. We've run the race right up to the finish line, with no plan for what's next. Aside from a drastic reduction in global population, and a drastically reduced standard of living for anyone who remains. My suggestion would be to learn a viable skill that can be implemented without shipping of any kind, and learn to grow and preserve food. Cities and suburban areas are doomed. Not sure what to say about that. Hopefully there's still some time to make adjustments. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77944477 Canada 07/14/2022 02:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 78114832 Sweden 07/14/2022 02:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 77952124 United States 07/14/2022 02:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
FightForGod!
User ID: 80146778 United States 07/14/2022 02:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore I sure wish others would give up! Another poor GLP financial thread. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, |
FightForGod!
User ID: 80146778 United States 07/14/2022 02:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Every time. But they NEVER learn. It's Whack-a-Mole around here with all of the financial "experts". 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, |
GT Big hair
User ID: 6244049 United States 07/14/2022 02:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
In5Dgregg
User ID: 82322852 United States 07/14/2022 03:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | -143.92 Last Edited by In5Dgregg on 07/14/2022 03:02 PM Don't mistake my easygoing demeanor as a weakness |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 81485526 United States 07/14/2022 03:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. Oh, but they are printing and manipulating the markets. The only reason the stock market isn't down at least 5% today. This can be done indefinitely. |
FightForGod!
User ID: 80146778 United States 07/14/2022 03:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | -106. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 83803164 United Kingdom 07/14/2022 04:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
voracious reader
User ID: 68792791 United States 07/14/2022 04:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. You would probably take out your own parents who brought you into this world. "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Rev.22 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79109062 United Kingdom 07/14/2022 04:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79785752 07/14/2022 04:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 79844162 United States 07/14/2022 05:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that DOW was not down 1000 at opening bell with compounding negative news hitting the wires every hour should tell us something Look at PM's. What the actual is going on there? NOTHING makes sense I give up trying to predict ANYTHING anymore Because the problem is geological, and we can't "print" or "manipulate" our way out of the situation. I actually feel like that's the whole idea. A reduction of the people with their hands held out wanting someone else to subsidize their existence. I think REAL soon the theme is going to be: Be productive, or die. If you don't hold "worth" in the community, either in the form of money, labor, skill, or knowledge, bye bye, and no one cares. We've got more important things to attend to. You would probably take out your own parents who brought you into this world. If the goal was to run a capitalistic monetary based economy, and they weren't turning a profit, that's what would HAVE to be done or the system fails and everyone gets "taken out". I'm not saying a monetary based capitalistic economy is moral by any means. It has inherent corruption built in. But that IS the system we're operating under for the time being. If you live in the 1st world economy anyway. |