How much of Lake Meads water shortage is due to Migration

No, It’s humans using water. You think these people pouring across the border care about leaving the faucet running. They storm across the border and rape our land of its resources, while the country they come from has plenty of resources. It’s not migration, it’s an invasion.

It certainly does when they all crowd in to drink water whose allocation was set during historically WET years in the early 1920's.

Only human morons would craft an entire water delivery system some 40+ years later using OLD and transitory precipitation data, doncha think?

There were these people in the SW known as the Anasazi, not anywhere near the numbers now, and they simply had to MOVE AWAY or go extinct, so they did.

Circa 13-1500 AD - look it up for lesson in how we ignore history and condemn our future time and again.

[link to www.cerescourier.com (secure)]

Mega droughts have been verified by science. Carbon dating combined with dendrochronology – the study of tree rings – has determined the Southwest suffered from 14 mega droughts punctured sometimes with a couple years of normal precipitation spanning from 50 to 100 years stretching from 800 to 1600 AD.

[link to serc.carleton.edu (secure)]

the river is over-allocated. The 1920's – coincidentally the time that the Compact was negotiated was an anomalously wet period with annual flows as high as ~20 million acre-feet (Figures17-18). In contrast, the long-term mean discharge of the river is about 15 million acre-feet, yet 16.5 million are allocated. Furthermore, the river flow is highly variable, and based on historical data and tree ring reconstructions, it seems that decades-long dry periods with flows less than 13-14 million acre-feet may be common. Second, climate projections indicate that the region will become drier in the long-term, and some have suggested that we have already entered an era of steadily declining river flows along the Colorado.

[link to www.msn.com (secure)]

The date is Feb. 9, 1997, and the man responsible for one of the most egregious environmental follies in human history is sitting at a restaurant in Boyce, Virginia, with the leader of the movement seeking to undo his mistake. Of the hundreds of dams Floyd Dominy green lit during his decade running the Bureau of Reclamation, none are as loathed as his crown jewel, the Glen Canyon Dam. In 1963, Dominy erected the 710-foot (216-meter) tall monument to himself out of ego and concrete, deadening the Colorado River just upstream of the Grand Canyon, drowning more than 250 square miles (648 square kilometers) in the heart of the Colorado Plateau, and inventing Lake Powell in the middle of a sun-baked desert.

After a couple of drinks, Dominy asked his dinner guest, Glen Canyon Institute founder Richard Ingebretsen, for an appraisal of the effort to drain Lake Powell. “It’s pretty serious, Mr. Dominy,” Ingebretsen recalled telling him, holding back the seething discontent of the broad coalition he represented. When Ingebretsen described his hypothetical plan to drill through the twin boreholes bestriding Glen Canyon dam, Dominy replied, “Well, you can’t do that. It is 300 feet of reinforced concrete.” Then Dominy did something extraordinary—he lowered his glasses, pulled out a pen, and diagrammed precisely how he would do it on a cocktail napkin. A stunned Ingebretsen could hardly believe what was happening.

I just found this Video measuring the last 20 years of dropping elevations at lake mead, while the video blames climate change, I think it's curious that NAFTA also started 20 years ago starting a mass migration from the south.

There’s not much discussion about the third pipeline- the one way down deep at the bottom of Mead. My GLP-mind likely thinks that one may be simply ‘draining’ the lake to create this crisis.

The rate of reduction has been exacerbated in the last year, but climate conditions have basically stayed the same. That’s not typical usage nor evaporation.

Given they based ALL of this on high precip levels of the 1920s that comes as a surprise to you?

Do tell...

Oh and the regular cyclical droughts of the west ignored? Yeah, that doomed the Anasazi too.

Even the man responsible for "watering the west" knew he fucked up back in 1997:

[link to www.msn.com (secure)]

The date is Feb. 9, 1997, and the man responsible for one of the most egregious environmental follies in human history is sitting at a restaurant in Boyce, Virginia, with the leader of the movement seeking to undo his mistake. Of the hundreds of dams Floyd Dominy green lit during his decade running the Bureau of Reclamation, none are as loathed as his crown jewel, the Glen Canyon Dam. In 1963, Dominy erected the 710-foot (216-meter) tall monument to himself out of ego and concrete, deadening the Colorado River just upstream of the Grand Canyon, drowning more than 250 square miles (648 square kilometers) in the heart of the Colorado Plateau, and inventing Lake Powell in the middle of a sun-baked desert.

After a couple of drinks, Dominy asked his dinner guest, Glen Canyon Institute founder Richard Ingebretsen, for an appraisal of the effort to drain Lake Powell. “It’s pretty serious, Mr. Dominy,” Ingebretsen recalled telling him, holding back the seething discontent of the broad coalition he represented. When Ingebretsen described his hypothetical plan to drill through the twin boreholes bestriding Glen Canyon dam, Dominy replied, “Well, you can’t do that. It is 300 feet of reinforced concrete.” Then Dominy did something extraordinary—he lowered his glasses, pulled out a pen, and diagrammed precisely how he would do it on a cocktail napkin. A stunned Ingebretsen could hardly believe what was happening.

Have you ever given a thought to pumps planted at the bottom of the lake when it was constructed that can be turned on and drained the lake from the bottom? Conspiracy theory of course, do do do do do do do do. Hey, things are never what they appear to be...

and how about all that fresh water being routed to the west coast ....then drained out of rivers into the ocean.????

Far too distant, the Sea of Cortez is merely 50 miles away.

THINK!

[link to www.azcentral.com (secure)]

So, why is the Arizona Legislature asking Congress to study and, if it’s feasible, implement a project to pump floodwater from the Mississippi to the Colorado River?

Lawmakers claim in their request that Denver is “successfully harvesting floodwater from the Missouri River,” though a Denver Water spokesperson confirmed the city isn’t doing anything of the sort.

States along the Mississippi that also will receive this letter might wonder why it’s just coming from Arizona, not any of the other Colorado River basin states that also desperately need to find other renewable water supplies.

If anything, it makes us look wildly out of touch.

Arizona is already working with other Lower Basin states and Mexico on possible desalination in the Sea of Cortez. Those efforts could deliver up to 200,000 acre-feet of water a year – at a unit cost on par with similar projects in California.

That’s a lot more than what we pay for water today, but it’s still doable, knowing that water in Arizona is only going to get more expensive.

Meanwhile, Central Arizona Project and the Arizona Department of Water Resources may join Nevada in an effort to recycle 170,000 acre-feet of California wastewater instead of dumping it into the ocean. It’s too early to estimate costs, but California has agreed to refund our seed money if it doesn’t pencil out.

Blatant DISINFORMATION!

Mexico is NOT "sucking the lake dry" - in fact they agreed to let their share stay in Lake Mead:

[link to www.watereducation.org (secure)]


In 2007 Mexico and the United States agreed to a formal process managed by the IBWC to discuss “a number of issues of mutual concern to both nations related to the Colorado River.” The discussions resulted in a series of Minutes (agreements) to the 1944 Treaty designed to increase cooperation between the two countries on management of the river.

Among the agreements, the milestone Minute 319 includes an agreement between the U.S. and Mexico that partially resolves the question of when Mexico will take a shortage in its Colorado River supplies.

Mexico agreed to take a lesser amount of water during times of drought in exchange for establishment of the Intentionally Created Mexican Apportionment.

I was stationed in Vegas from 86-96.I did a lot of sailing on Lake Mead. It's a shadow of its former self

Thank you AC80010885 for your contributions and the Bump,

No, all the other lakes are NOT "just fine"!

STOP THE LYING!

[link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)]


Lake Name Level Full Pool +/- Full Pool

Alamo (AZ) 1,105.65 1,129.00 -23.35

Havasu (AZ CA) 449.15 445.00 4.15

Mohave (AZ NV) 643.99 647.00 -3.01

Pleasant (AZ) 1,675.73 1,660.00 15.73

Powell (UT AZ) 3,536.70 3,700.00 -163.30

[link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)]

Flaming Gorge (UT WY) 6,016. 276,040.00 -23.73

[link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)]

Navajo (NM CO) 6,024.19 6,085.00 -60.81

[link to www.lakelevels.info (secure)]


Blue Mesa (CO) 7,460.83 7,519.00 -58.17

Morrow Point (CO)7,151.68 7,160.00 -8.32

Honestly I would not put it past the Gov letting water go. They have had some good rains in the past few years. It keeps going down. Just because there are people using it as normal flows why would the water keep going down?. I am just saying. CA lets their dams drain for no good reasons. A little guppy or what ever.
Not that long ago Home land security had the dam block from the public. Something stinks in this.

Last Edited by Joker on 07/26/2022 01:28 PM

No, we have an actual shortage, just as we regularly do given climate patterns in the west.

Wise up.

Lake Mead could rise tomorrow if they cutoff the golf courses and farmers. That will happen long before Las Vegas goes dry.

Sorry haters.

zero

I agree. It's great to see someone on here who knows what he is talking about.

The let 500,000 acre feet out of Flaming Gorge and it only brought Lake Powell up by 17'.

Your water release claim is total BULLSHIT!

All you're seeing is stairstep releases on a drying water basin, not one thing more.

Want proof?

Check the inflow figure to Mexico:

[link to www.theguardian.com (secure)]

After the Glen Canyon dam was built in Arizona in 1966, river flow in Mexico plunged to 8.3 cubic metres per second

By the 1980s, 80% of the delta’s forests and wetlands were lost and the estuary partially destroyed, with devastating results for marine life, migratory birds, mammals and indigenous communities.

The river has not flowed to the sea since 1998, apart from a few days in 2014 during an ecological experiment that simulated spring floods

Currently the river flow in Mexico is 0.5 cubic metres per second, a fraction of what it once was.

You should take a look at the imagery from Mars, which used to have a LOT of water!

I don't think any of the Colorado has reached the ocean for many years. CA has sucked it dry before it reaches Mexico.

Good management cant save the system from INACCURATE FLOW PROJECTIONS, now can it?

And those projections made in the wet years of the 1920s were
ANOMALOUS!

Now we pay.

And what would the loss of water from the Mississippi do to the Mississippi delta and the gulf of Mexico? You would end up causing more problems in the long run for other people. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Seems like not just the leader are morans.

It would be far easier to tell the morans in the desert to move. Or drill down. Somewhere under that ground there is water.


1.) No credible projections for pipeline extraction exist - bad data proliferates this crisis.

2.) Confined aquifers, or geologic water are non-renewable.

3.) But in that time they bear water they work = El Paso is on almost 100% desalinated water thanks to Ft. Bliss and the Army Corps of Engineers.

Separate use factor.

The CLEAR AND OBVIOUS FAULT was using the wet years of the 1920s as the metric for succeeding years.

Duh!

True that.

[link to www.theguardian.com (secure)]

Yeah. I have been hearing those plans too. That is when I started thinking about, what might happen to the delta and gulf with less water. Personally I don't think it's the best idea, but you are right those in charge are shortsighted morons.

You are most welcome and thank you for embracing the data and the realities of this ecosystem and its weather and climatic patterns!

There is more water under the earth than we know what to do with. We just have to get down there.

[link to www.pbs.org (secure)]

Last Edited by themessengernevermatters on 07/26/2022 01:44 PM

1.) No credible projections for pipeline extraction exist - bad data proliferates this crisis.

2.) Confined aquifers, or geologic water are non-renewable.

3.) But in that time they bear water they work = El Paso is on almost 100% desalinated water thanks to Ft. Bliss and the Army Corps of Engineers.


I have to disagree with number 2,
[link to twri.tamu.edu (secure)]
Recharging the Ogallala Aquifer is the goal for the Texas Playa Conservation Initiative (TxPCI), a partnership of six organizations including Texas Parks and Wildlife, Playa Lakes Joint Venture, U.S. Department of Agriculture Natural Resources Conservation Service, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Ducks Unlimited and Texan by Nature (TxN).

My pleasure, and thank you for opening this dialog up!

This will become a major issue in the next 6 months.

It is my belief the inflow numbers to Lake Mead are bogus.

Right now the Colorado River arm is not even entering the lake:

[link to earthobservatory.nasa.gov (secure)]

The Overton Bay arm is no longer supplying the Virgin River either.

Just scroll through the timeline on this imagery and be shocked.