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Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing

 
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:20 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
James said more or less without action your belief in God is worthless. Was he inspired by God to say that or not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


No, that's not what he said. That's what you said.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:24 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
James - In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:27 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
If Rahab disobeyed her coviction from God, did she have faith in God?

If she disobeyed, she certainly still had faith, but not in God. It would be a dead faith in dead idols.

Notice you added "in God" to what James said. This "more or less" approach is your problem. Don't add convoluted fluff.

Faith in God leads to obedience to God. Disobedience is from faith in idols, such as the flesh, the world, or other false god(s).

Last Edited by Weyoun on 11/22/2022 11:29 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:29 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
What other faith was James referring to? faith without deeds is dead
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:34 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
What other faith was James referring to? faith without deeds is dead
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Many people have faith in evolution, or some humanistic utopia, or some idealized humanistic philosophy, or in some "god" they created in their head. Why do some claim to believe in God but "fall away" later? They never had faith in God but in a "god" they created in their head.

"They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be manifested that they all are not of us." - 1 John 2:19


Those with dead faith never had faith in God.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:38 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
What faith was JAMES referring to?
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:41 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
What faith was JAMES referring to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Everyone has faith. EVERYONE. But what is that faith in? A man with faith in God leads to obedience to God.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:42 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
So James wasn't inspired by God to write faith without deeds is dead?
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:43 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
So James wasn't inspired by God to write faith without deeds is dead?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Is that what you believe?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:45 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
So James wasn't inspired by God to write faith without deeds is dead?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Is that what you believe?
 Quoting: Weyoun


Answer me, I'll answer you.
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:47 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
So James wasn't inspired by God to write faith without deeds is dead?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Is that what you believe?
 Quoting: Weyoun


Answer me, I'll answer you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


I already did. You are not satified.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:49 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
So James wasn't inspired by God to write faith without deeds is dead?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Is that what you believe?
 Quoting: Weyoun


Answer me, I'll answer you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


I already did. You are not satified.
 Quoting: Weyoun


Give it to me directly as in yes or no without the fluff.
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:50 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
...


Is that what you believe?
 Quoting: Weyoun


Answer me, I'll answer you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


I already did. You are not satified.
 Quoting: Weyoun


Give it to me directly as in yes or no without the fluff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


You added the fluff, not me. You want it gone, take it away.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/22/2022 11:52 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Can't give a simple yes or no?
Weyoun

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11/22/2022 11:53 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Can't give a simple yes or no?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Can't you simply go by God's Word without adding extra fluff?

Last Edited by Weyoun on 11/22/2022 11:53 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/23/2022 12:07 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
For the record, I agree with Martin Luther the book of James is a strawy epistle i.e. not much on grace. I don't think faith without deeds is dead but it doesn't do much to further the great comission.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/23/2022 12:24 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Speaking of the great commission, Jesus said "Go(action) therefore and make(action) disciples of all nations, baptizing(action) them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching(action) them to obey everything that I have commanded you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2022 02:12 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2022 01:18 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Belief comes first, it is the seed planted in the soil (us) fed by hearing the word of God, that produces faith which is manifested in actions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956

I will tell you again. Believing in God is the same as faith in God. There is no distinction. You are adding your own extra stuff and complicating it. THe gospel is simple for even children to understand. It does not require all this semantical gerrymandering you are doing.
 Quoting: Weyoun

NONSENSE.

Does the phrase 'o ye of little faith' actually mean 'little belief'?

NOPE

Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
when the Son of man cometh,

shall he find faith on the earth?


...

There are people who believe God and Jesus exist - but yet do not have strong Faith in the 'Promises'.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study

...
Weyoun

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11/23/2022 10:48 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Belief comes first, it is the seed planted in the soil (us) fed by hearing the word of God, that produces faith which is manifested in actions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956

I will tell you again. Believing in God is the same as faith in God. There is no distinction. You are adding your own extra stuff and complicating it. THe gospel is simple for even children to understand. It does not require all this semantical gerrymandering you are doing.
 Quoting: Weyoun

NONSENSE.

Does the phrase 'o ye of little faith' actually mean 'little belief'?

NOPE

Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
when the Son of man cometh,

shall he find faith on the earth?


...

There are people who believe God and Jesus exist - but yet do not have strong Faith in the 'Promises'.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84805590


Go look at the Greek, believe is the verb and faith is the noun. You are taking English cultural connotations and reading them into the Bible that was not written in English.

Believing God's existence is not the same as believing in God. THe latter is the same as faith. The Bible already makes this distinction where needed.

You did not read through the thread before replying, for I already noted this distinction. THe Bible says "believe in" when saying as a verb and "faith" when as a noun, without confusing "believe in" and "believe the existence."

Last Edited by Weyoun on 11/23/2022 10:54 PM
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2022 03:06 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Does the phrase 'o ye of little faith' actually mean 'little belief'?

NOPE

Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
when the Son of man cometh,

shall he find faith on the earth?


...

There are people who believe God and Jesus exist - but yet do not have strong Faith in the 'Promises'.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study
...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84805590

Go look at the Greek, believe is the verb and faith is the noun.
 Quoting: Weyoun

Jesus and ALL the Apostles were Israelites / Hebrews.

And it's the language that they spoke.

Not Greek.

The 'lost' people Jesus was sent to believed in God.

Their Faith was lacking - due in part to what the Sanhedrin / Pharisees had been doing - and also the Romans.

Just because a person believes fully that God exists doesn't mean that they have a strong Faith.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study

...
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2022 03:13 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Go look at the Greek...
 Quoting: Weyoun

There's times when the Greek words used matter.

This isn't one of them.

Belief and Faith are NOT the exact same thing.

...
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2022 06:10 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
If you tell your gf that you love her, but you never DO anything to show that love, is she going to believe you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


And how many people do bad things, even sin, in the name of "love?"

If you love God, you want to please Him, you want to do what He wants you to do. It's as simple as that. You cannot prove anything to God or convince Him. He is all-knowing and knows you better than yourself. He is perfect in wisdom and cannot be convinced differently than His perfect wisdom.

You cannot do anything to earn God's love. It is a free gift from God that you simply accept or reject. If you accept, you die to self and Christ lives in you, and He acts in you and through you. So, your faith in Christ comes first.
 Quoting: Weyoun


We cannot do anything to earn God's love?

Why would we need to when God already loves each one of us at an immensity that many would not believe could even be possible by human standards.

Believing in and having faith in God is great. Even better is to go beyond that and experience for yourself God's love.

As we expand our awareness and begin to see and sense the grandness of God's love everywhere and for everyone, we will truly be humbled with tears of gratitude and joy knowing that God loves each one of us unconditionally and equally regardless of whether we are believers or not, sinners or not.

It is human nature at low awareness to worship God and spiritually advanced human messengers while making ourselves feel lowly and unworthy.

The true Word of God will always be caring, understanding, compassionate, uniting, uplifting, and empowering to encourage and inspire us to seek the love of God for comfort and guidance while we learn to grow up spiritually to love.

Careful of any spiritual teachings claiming to be the Word of God that put fear in us, belittle us, divide us, confuse us, or put us into a hierarchy. Those are teachings from humans still heavily under the influence of the ego which knows not of love, compassion, gratitude, and equality.

Hard for many to believe that there are same number of angels surrounding both a kind person and an evil person. Maybe even more for the evil person that needs more help. That is pure unconditional love .

The Bible has many wonderful teachings for our spiritual growth. But keep in mind that it too is not immune to human greed and human biases through misunderstanding, misinterpretation, mistranslation, exaggeration, embellishment, or ill intent.

Something "miraculous" happens when we sincerely with pure intent fill our hearts with love and have the compassion to share the joy of love with those who do not have joy or love yet.

That something is the true "reborn" human with a new benevolent mindset biased in love and with even greater compassion for others and everything, including our enemies and those who don't have the same perspectives as our own,

It is a new human becoming in unity and alliance with God through love.

There is physics behind all of that. As Nikola Tesla had uncovered, to know the secrets to the universe think in terms of energy, frequency, and vibration.

God, aka Creative Source or Prime Creator to some, is a meld of intelligent multi-dimensional quantum energies biased in love, compassion, benevolence, and joy.

Love is the most powerful multi-dimensional quantum energy in the universe.

God is pure love that is unconditional love. Conditional love is not pure love, rather it is a form of manipulation for control.

Our true nature is love, not the ego that is our false nature.

Connect the dots only if one wishes to do so.

Is this just fantasy or delusional thinking?

Made in the image of God, the energy image of love.

The Kingdom of God is within every human, in each of the trillions of DNA in every body.

We are not born here randomly. We are here for an amazing long term adventure while in the human form to see if when left alone we could go from being separated from God and then freely choose to return to being in Oneness with God by embracing love over our ego.

And to have fair free will, we self imposed a veil of temporary forgetfulness to not remember who or what we truly are while as human.

The more we fill our hearts with sincere love, the faster we will solve the puzzle of who or what we truly are and why we are here.

There is that word "love" again. It is no secret that love has always been the solution to all our problems for good reason. The challenging part is whether we could grow up spiritually to greater wisdom and benevolent maturity to freely choose it.

All the best!
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2022 06:52 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Surprised no one mentioned Matt. 18:3- Verily, I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of Heaven. You know, having this childlike faith was really important to Jesus Christ. Oh, to have the faith of a child who trusts GOD without questioning, who simply and gladly believes without a doubt! Even the Israelites in the desert couldn't do it and found it too difficult even when GOD was actually with them and talking to them. No matter what doctrine or religion you accept, such as reincarnation, having the simple faith of a child is required, yet, it could mean the life or death of us without GOD actually leading, guiding, and protecting us.
Anonymous Coward
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11/24/2022 07:36 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Not true. Faith is Action based on Belief sustained by Confidence. The devil believes in God and trembles.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Faith is action based on KNOWING.. you missed that one didn't you... belief is not knowing. If you know.. you don't have to be sustained by confidence.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/24/2022 08:12 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Not true. Faith is Action based on Belief sustained by Confidence. The devil believes in God and trembles.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


Faith is action based on KNOWING.. you missed that one didn't you... belief is not knowing. If you know.. you don't have to be sustained by confidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77373913
Knowing is Gnosticism which Jesus condemned. If God wanted to be known He would be known. God wants faith.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/24/2022 09:28 AM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22113394


And yet the same author wrote if you don't work you don't get to eat.
Weyoun

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11/24/2022 04:45 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Romans 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22113394


And yet the same author wrote if you don't work you don't get to eat.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4508956


That's an admonition against lazy leeches. It is not stating a requirement for salvation. Those who believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior are saved. It is that simple. Those who are saved want to obey God and do what God wants. It is very straightforward and simple. Stop conflating, complicating, and confusing.
Weyoun

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11/24/2022 04:52 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Go look at the Greek...
 Quoting: Weyoun

There's times when the Greek words used matter.

This isn't one of them.

Belief and Faith are NOT the exact same thing.

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84808488


Stop adding English cultural connotations to the Bible.

A plain reading of the Bible is clear. Believing in God is the same as faith in God. Any "difference" you preceive is added from outside the Bible due to your English cultural connotations.
Weyoun

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11/24/2022 05:29 PM
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Re: Many Believe that Belief in God and Faith in GOD are the Same Thing
Does the phrase 'o ye of little faith' actually mean 'little belief'?

NOPE

Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless
when the Son of man cometh,

shall he find faith on the earth?


...

There are people who believe God and Jesus exist - but yet do not have strong Faith in the 'Promises'.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study
...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84805590

Go look at the Greek, believe is the verb and faith is the noun.
 Quoting: Weyoun

Jesus and ALL the Apostles were Israelites / Hebrews.

And it's the language that they spoke.

Not Greek.

The 'lost' people Jesus was sent to believed in God.

Their Faith was lacking - due in part to what the Sanhedrin / Pharisees had been doing - and also the Romans.

Just because a person believes fully that God exists doesn't mean that they have a strong Faith.

Thread: Faith is Trust. Do you Trust Father God and His Son? - Bible Study

...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84808488


No, the lost did NOT believe in God. Believing God's existence is not the same as believing in God. A person can believe God's existence without ever believing in God. The Bible makes this clear when necessary and is seen from a plain reading from the Bible.

Believing in God IS faith! In fact, if you look at some non-English translations, there is no ussage of a different word! (See example below) So is this difference between "believing in" and "faith" only for English-speaking Christians? Are English-speaking Christians have a different faith than German-speaking Christians? No, of course not! God is God no matter what language you are!

In German translation, John 3:16 says "an...glauben" for "believe in", and Hebrews 11:1 says "Glaube" for faith.

The first "an...glauben" is verb, and "Glaube" is noun. The only differnece is grammatical. "Glaube" is also "belief". So, you have "an...glauben"="believe in" and "Glaube"="faith". Are English Christians of superior "faith" than German Christians, because of the connotative differnece you added in English?





GLP