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Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 42717143
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11/23/2022 12:26 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
So the only opinion so far is that you think only super rich people and corporations should own homes.

Everyone should be a renter (even though there shouldn’t be landlords lol)
And banks are bad because they give people a chance to acquire an asset that they can pass down to their relatives… which also happens to be the majority of people’s largest asset.

Wow GLP… wow. A new low.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


And not to mention you also want to take away peoples ability to leverage the equity in their home as well.

You just want people to feed corporations and wealthy landlords (even though there shouldn’t be landlords lol) and have nothing to show for it. Unless they can save up about $30,000 a year and then in 10 years they could potentially afford an average house.

How many people making an average salary with maybe a kid or 2 have $30,000 left over for savings each year?

A new low for GLP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Let’s say a couple that are both 25 years old have 2 kids. The father makes $75,000 a year and the mother watches the kids and doesn’t work.

If they are renting a typical house out, that would be at least $2,000 a month in most areas. Say 2 cars with payments of $500 total plus $200 in insurance.

Right there with rent and cars you’re at $32,400 without any other bills.

We’ll even say that 75k is after tax too

So now you’re down to $42,600

For 4 people to eat and all the other things like electricity, gas, etc… say even $2500 a month more which is ridiculously low. That’s another $30,000 a year.

Now you’re at $12,600 as a generous estimate and I’ll even round up to $15,000. If you want to buy a house for about $300,000 which is around average, it would only take 20 years!

So with real numbers, it would be more than 20 years.

Now that couple at 25 yr old with 2 babies is minimally 45 years old with kids in their 20s and they finally were able to buy their first house. And again, realistically it would be more than 20 years… so at 50-55 years old with adult children, they finally can afford to buy a house which also would wipe out 100% of their savings.

How does this make sense to any of you????
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 42717143
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11/23/2022 12:35 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
After 5 pages the only reply with any intelligence was one in agreement with my point.

This says so much about you all. You’re all brainwashed and you can’t explain your point of view because it’s not really your point of view. You’ve been programmed and it is very obvious.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/23/2022 12:51 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Well I guess I just debunked a conspiracy theory live on GLP.

You all witnessed history.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84805834
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11/23/2022 01:00 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Not even a single troll remains to dare test my rock solid logic.

This conspiracy is officially debunked.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 71249371
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11/23/2022 01:14 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
I believe in working for one's food, shelter, and possessions. Anyone into banking or cryptocurrency is a worthless debt-slave that's part of the problem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71454678


What a simple minded ignorant point of view
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Simple minded? Maybe. Ignorant? Hardly. Putting yourself into debt? That's ignorance.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 01:25 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
I believe in working for one's food, shelter, and possessions. Anyone into banking or cryptocurrency is a worthless debt-slave that's part of the problem.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71454678


What a simple minded ignorant point of view
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Simple minded? Maybe. Ignorant? Hardly. Putting yourself into debt? That's ignorance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71249371


Then why do most intelligent and financially educated people take on debt?

Using debt is smart. Taking on unnecessary debt for depreciating assets is ignorance.

I think you don’t have any nuance or ability to see beyond your very simple point of view.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2022 01:31 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Instead of me posting a link for you all to ignore or criticize, just do a search for “how rich wealthy use debt”

Educate yourselves.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
United States
11/23/2022 01:38 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
So the only opinion so far is that you think only super rich people and corporations should own homes.

Everyone should be a renter (even though there shouldn’t be landlords lol)
And banks are bad because they give people a chance to acquire an asset that they can pass down to their relatives… which also happens to be the majority of people’s largest asset.

Wow GLP… wow. A new low.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


And not to mention you also want to take away peoples ability to leverage the equity in their home as well.

You just want people to feed corporations and wealthy landlords (even though there shouldn’t be landlords lol) and have nothing to show for it. Unless they can save up about $30,000 a year and then in 10 years they could potentially afford an average house.

How many people making an average salary with maybe a kid or 2 have $30,000 left over for savings each year?

A new low for GLP
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Let’s say a couple that are both 25 years old have 2 kids. The father makes $75,000 a year and the mother watches the kids and doesn’t work.

If they are renting a typical house out, that would be at least $2,000 a month in most areas. Say 2 cars with payments of $500 total plus $200 in insurance.

Right there with rent and cars you’re at $32,400 without any other bills.

We’ll even say that 75k is after tax too

So now you’re down to $42,600

For 4 people to eat and all the other things like electricity, gas, etc… say even $2500 a month more which is ridiculously low. That’s another $30,000 a year.

Now you’re at $12,600 as a generous estimate and I’ll even round up to $15,000. If you want to buy a house for about $300,000 which is around average, it would only take 20 years!

So with real numbers, it would be more than 20 years.

Now that couple at 25 yr old with 2 babies is minimally 45 years old with kids in their 20s and they finally were able to buy their first house. And again, realistically it would be more than 20 years… so at 50-55 years old with adult children, they finally can afford to buy a house which also would wipe out 100% of their savings.

How does this make sense to any of you????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


I wonder if the idiot who thinks everyone should only buy houses in cash will ever try to dispute this?

Probably not.
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2022 01:48 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
yoda
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 01:51 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Say you want to buy a house. Should only people that have enough cash be able to buy?

If you don’t like fiat or crypto, do you think everyone should have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of PM in their homes? I go to buy a house and I need $500,000 worth of gold and I am just going to hand it all to the seller? Who is then going to just trust it’s all real gold?

If you don’t believe in lending and interest, are you a commie that wants other people’s money for nothing? Why should a random stranger give you their money to use for free?

Seems like there is a segment of people who are anti anything financial (because they are financially illiterate) yet don’t have any realistic solutions on how things would work otherwise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Prof Auriti of Italy asked questions ~2002 about how value was inducted to money. But long previous early 1900s people in the Austrian school were addressing the matter of whether credit preceded money or followed. Find the Mises book - linked at the page I will link.

But read Bastiat - ECONOMIC SOPHISMS

And then ask how the national credit became collectivized and thereafter who is the proper creditor.

Some answers relevant to your question are found here:
Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 99)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 01:56 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
The core of mutual credit lies in the hypothecation of the promissory note.

Absolute genius; too bad nobody told you.

Your credit is your property, however one hundred years ago the claim was made that the credit of a nation is the property of the government.

This idea lies at the heart of socialism and is the fifth plank of the communist manifesto.

You have been living under communism all of your life.

Your body, your life has been pledged for value in a system of bondage that dates back to ancient Babylon.

You have been moved into an economic bondage that is absolutely Biblical in history.

Rethink money and credit and free yourself.

You don't need violence and destruction; you need a better idea.

What if you enjoyed a vested position in ownership of the monetary system?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
United States
11/23/2022 01:59 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Say you want to buy a house. Should only people that have enough cash be able to buy?

If you don’t like fiat or crypto, do you think everyone should have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of PM in their homes? I go to buy a house and I need $500,000 worth of gold and I am just going to hand it all to the seller? Who is then going to just trust it’s all real gold?

If you don’t believe in lending and interest, are you a commie that wants other people’s money for nothing? Why should a random stranger give you their money to use for free?

Seems like there is a segment of people who are anti anything financial (because they are financially illiterate) yet don’t have any realistic solutions on how things would work otherwise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Prof Auriti of Italy asked questions ~2002 about how value was inducted to money. But long previous early 1900s people in the Austrian school were addressing the matter of whether credit preceded money or followed. Find the Mises book - linked at the page I will link.

But read Bastiat - ECONOMIC SOPHISMS

And then ask how the national credit became collectivized and thereafter who is the proper creditor.

Some answers relevant to your question are found here:
Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 99)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


He basically was into crypto
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:19 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
New Approach to Freedom; EC Reigle:
[link to www.newapproachtofreedom.info]

Thanks to Thomas Greco and his writing and public talks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84060966
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11/23/2022 02:33 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
...


And you're a kneejerking low IQ troll stuck in the jewcentric matrix.

Don't feed the troll!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 75192448


That’s not a thoughtful logical response. That is more low IQ ranting from a bitter jealous loser.

If you want to try to actually make a point, be my guest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143

My only point is that you're a low IQ troll and this is obvious by your use of false dichotomies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84060966


What false dichotomy did I use?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


There are only two choices. If you critique capitalism you are a commie. I also feel it is kind of silly to expect much intellectual debate at glp.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:34 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
A mutual credit system owned by the users could charge zero interest with only a monthly service charge for keeping the records.

All of the people are seen as the owners, the paid professional administration is paid from a fund inspired by the writings of Silvio Gesell. I.E. everybody pays a little for a smooth running system of mutual credit.

Reputation records kept on participants.

Specie coinage recognized as a form of savings and used in a performance bond role.

Poor reputation; post a large performance bond.
Good reputation; low performance bond.

Any community could acquire a commercial banking license and operate the bank for the benefit and profit to the local population. Look to the example of the bank of North Dakota as pointed out by Dr Ellen Brown.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 02:34 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
New Approach to Freedom; EC Reigle:
[link to www.newapproachtofreedom.info]

Thanks to Thomas Greco and his writing and public talks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


I don’t trust when people just post a link or copy paste.

Why don’t you summarize his angle in a few sentences in your own words.

If you can’t do that for something you believe, you should question your beliefs.

Not saying you can’t do it. Just in general.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 02:35 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
...


That’s not a thoughtful logical response. That is more low IQ ranting from a bitter jealous loser.

If you want to try to actually make a point, be my guest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143

My only point is that you're a low IQ troll and this is obvious by your use of false dichotomies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84060966


What false dichotomy did I use?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


There are only two choices. If you critique capitalism you are a commie. I also feel it is kind of silly to expect much intellectual debate at glp.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84060966


I’m never said that though. I did call someone a commie who wanted to make all private businesses government owned and not allow any landlords. That’s pretty much communism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:37 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Bernard Lietaer (deceased) wrote about the possibilities of using ideas developed by Silvio Gesell.

Lietaer's writings are easily found by search.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:41 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
New Approach to Freedom; EC Reigle:
[link to www.newapproachtofreedom.info]

Thanks to Thomas Greco and his writing and public talks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


I don’t trust when people just post a link or copy paste.

Why don’t you summarize his angle in a few sentences in your own words.

If you can’t do that for something you believe, you should question your beliefs.

Not saying you can’t do it. Just in general.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81447247


Reigle wrote several books; they are online and free.

I'm the guy who digitized the books with permission of the copyright owner.

Don't be lazy; do some homework.

Read the two Dr Popp books; they are both only about 100 pages; I digitized those also.
[link to reinventingmoney.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 02:45 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Bernard Lietaer (deceased) wrote about the possibilities of using ideas developed by Silvio Gesell.

Lietaer's writings are easily found by search.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


Can you put it into your own words though?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84806378
11/23/2022 02:46 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
I think a lot of the problems would be alleviated if we didn't allow homes to be speculative assets.

Renting/Landlords shouldn't exist.

Homes should be HOMES. Shelter.

But I'm just a dreamer...
 Quoting: BLACK GHOST


Only rentals should those two to four story flat top multi family homes where the landlord is ON THE PREMISES. They exist.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 02:46 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
New Approach to Freedom; EC Reigle:
[link to www.newapproachtofreedom.info]

Thanks to Thomas Greco and his writing and public talks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


I don’t trust when people just post a link or copy paste.

Why don’t you summarize his angle in a few sentences in your own words.

If you can’t do that for something you believe, you should question your beliefs.

Not saying you can’t do it. Just in general.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81447247


Reigle wrote several books; they are online and free.

I'm the guy who digitized the books with permission of the copyright owner.

Don't be lazy; do some homework.

Read the two Dr Popp books; they are both only about 100 pages; I digitized those also.
[link to reinventingmoney.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


So in other words, no, you cannot give a short summary in your own words.

There’s a reason why schools make kids do that (or at least used to). Anyone can post a link… it doesn’t mean you actually understand what you’re linking though.

4-5 sentences or less in your own words. Go.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
United States
11/23/2022 02:47 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
I think a lot of the problems would be alleviated if we didn't allow homes to be speculative assets.

Renting/Landlords shouldn't exist.

Homes should be HOMES. Shelter.

But I'm just a dreamer...
 Quoting: BLACK GHOST


Only rentals should those two to four story flat top multi family homes where the landlord is ON THE PREMISES. They exist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84806378


So if someone wants to rent out a single family home, in your little dictatorship, you wouldn’t allow them to- why?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:49 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Natural Money theory: [link to www.naturalmoney.org (secure)]

Creditary Economics: [link to creditary-economics.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 81447247
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11/23/2022 02:51 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Natural Money theory: [link to www.naturalmoney.org (secure)]

Creditary Economics: [link to creditary-economics.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


Guaranteed most people won’t click your links.

However, if you gave an insightful summary in your own words, it might pique people’s interest.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 02:59 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
"4-5 sentences or less in your own words. Go."

Money is a communication by the use of tokens and contracts that allows the rationalization of human effort and energy.

"Money is social memory" Quote from Narayana Kocherlakota.

The federal reserve note is a unit of credit of undefined redemption value.

The collectivization of the common credit of the people was the implementation of the fifth plank of the communist manifesto. This is a crime against the people and essentially identity theft writ large. This was over one hundred years ago under Roosevelt.

Richard Cook is correct; the public credit needs to be administered as a public utility.

There is a six part video series; this is just video #1:

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 84198874
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11/23/2022 03:03 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
"Guaranteed most people won’t click your links."

Correct; they are lazy and stupid which explains why they are in the current situation.

I am neither lazy nor stupid and have read thoroughly every thing I posted about plus plus more.

Sorry, but I need to pick up some Thanksgiving preps and several books I bought last night.

Be back later.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83440408
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11/23/2022 03:17 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
"Guaranteed most people won’t click your links."

Correct; they are lazy and stupid which explains why they are in the current situation.

I am neither lazy nor stupid and have read thoroughly every thing I posted about plus plus more.

Sorry, but I need to pick up some Thanksgiving preps and several books I bought last night.

Be back later.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


You’re a random anon on the internet. No one owes you anything. If you can’t summarize your viewpoints in your own words, you’re not worth listening to in any capacity.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 83440408
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11/23/2022 03:18 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
"4-5 sentences or less in your own words. Go."

Money is a communication by the use of tokens and contracts that allows the rationalization of human effort and energy.

"Money is social memory" Quote from Narayana Kocherlakota.

The federal reserve note is a unit of credit of undefined redemption value.

The collectivization of the common credit of the people was the implementation of the fifth plank of the communist manifesto. This is a crime against the people and essentially identity theft writ large. This was over one hundred years ago under Roosevelt.

Richard Cook is correct; the public credit needs to be administered as a public utility.

There is a six part video series; this is just video #1:


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84198874


So you support crypto?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79986956
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11/23/2022 03:18 PM
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Re: Question for the anti-bank, anti-lending and anti-crypto crowd (who believe all 3)
Say you want to buy a house. Should only people that have enough cash be able to buy?

If you don’t like fiat or crypto, do you think everyone should have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of PM in their homes? I go to buy a house and I need $500,000 worth of gold and I am just going to hand it all to the seller? Who is then going to just trust it’s all real gold?

If you don’t believe in lending and interest, are you a commie that wants other people’s money for nothing? Why should a random stranger give you their money to use for free?

Seems like there is a segment of people who are anti anything financial (because they are financially illiterate) yet don’t have any realistic solutions on how things would work otherwise.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 42717143


Hey, I have not read this thread... so the ideas I mention have probably been discussed. But:

All economies are exclusive Any economic system that you can imagine is exclusive. It excludes people that don't want to play by the rules of said system.

Exclusivity of economies is an important idea because it means that if you come up with an alternate economy, you must also see it as exclusive. You must realize that your system must exclude the other systems.

For instance, let's say you don't believe in banks or fiat or crypto. Great. One of the more important realizations you must make is that people who use these things, must never be allowed to interact with you based on these things.

If a person takes out a loan from a bank to purchase something from you, you must insist that they first convert the asset they have (USD) to an asset that your economy recognizes (lumber or land or cows, etc).

So, why is every economy exclusive?

<continues...>





GLP