Bought a 61 Buick Skylark 2 door! | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 07:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 07:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 81576584 United States 11/29/2022 08:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No it's going to need a new engine or a rebuild see if there are any cross over engines for this car if you want to keep it original rebuild it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72490747 Reason I'm saying is that a complete rebuild kit is almost $2,000 and that's not machine work included Oh wow 2000 whole dollars? A set of pilot sport cups cost that for my 911. I went through three sets this summer at the track. Stop being poor if you want to play with cars. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84516296 United States 11/29/2022 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Guys I have a question. Had my boy out there helping me pull the engine out it's disconnected from the transmission I always encounter a few problems getting an engine out but the oil pan is hitting the crossmember. I'm a reckon I have to take the transmission out Quoting: bro tim You might need to jack up the front of the transmission, then try to lift the engine up then forward. Sometimes it's easier to pull engine and transmission together, I've done it both ways. You did unbolt the torque converter? No way that will cost 10k if you're doing everything but machining. The carb does look like the original Rochester 4bbl. I wonder if there was a stripped bolt hole and they used the oversized bolt? Might have a trip to Tennessee in my future, a funeral Dec 1st. No I didn't unbolt the torque converter because I can't turn the engine over. And I'm sorry you have to go for a funeral You won't pull the engine with the torque converter on the crank. Gives you an easy decision on pulling engine and transmission together. Thanks... Maybe one good thing about the trip, guy offered to give me a 69 or 70 Cougar. Long trailer pull home though. |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 08:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No it's going to need a new engine or a rebuild see if there are any cross over engines for this car if you want to keep it original rebuild it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72490747 Reason I'm saying is that a complete rebuild kit is almost $2,000 and that's not machine work included Oh wow 2000 whole dollars? A set of pilot sport cups cost that for my 911. I went through three sets this summer at the track. Stop being poor if you want to play with cars. You know because everyone has $2,000 at easy disposal |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 08:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Guys I have a question. Had my boy out there helping me pull the engine out it's disconnected from the transmission I always encounter a few problems getting an engine out but the oil pan is hitting the crossmember. I'm a reckon I have to take the transmission out Quoting: bro tim You might need to jack up the front of the transmission, then try to lift the engine up then forward. Sometimes it's easier to pull engine and transmission together, I've done it both ways. You did unbolt the torque converter? No way that will cost 10k if you're doing everything but machining. The carb does look like the original Rochester 4bbl. I wonder if there was a stripped bolt hole and they used the oversized bolt? Might have a trip to Tennessee in my future, a funeral Dec 1st. No I didn't unbolt the torque converter because I can't turn the engine over. And I'm sorry you have to go for a funeral You won't pull the engine with the torque converter on the crank. Gives you an easy decision on pulling engine and transmission together. Thanks... Maybe one good thing about the trip, guy offered to give me a 69 or 70 Cougar. Long trailer pull home though. Oh cool.Be safe... |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 08:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No it's going to need a new engine or a rebuild see if there are any cross over engines for this car if you want to keep it original rebuild it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72490747 Reason I'm saying is that a complete rebuild kit is almost $2,000 and that's not machine work included Oh wow 2000 whole dollars? A set of pilot sport cups cost that for my 911. I went through three sets this summer at the track. Stop being poor if you want to play with cars. Son you need to find Jesus Christ |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 08:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 08:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84516296 United States 11/29/2022 09:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And I did take my pressure washer and wash off the whole top and the engine bay and I know there's a lot of Grease everywhere in this engine bay I plan on degreasing it and painting the engine before it goes back in and painting the engine bay as well Quoting: bro tim Should probably spray some lube all over the lifter valley and cylinders, so that water doesn't start more corrosion. Pressure wash was good, I've used oven cleaner but Castrol Super Clean is a good degreaser, just don't want it on glass. If you go back a page or two, there's some pic posting instructions back there. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 09:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And I did take my pressure washer and wash off the whole top and the engine bay and I know there's a lot of Grease everywhere in this engine bay I plan on degreasing it and painting the engine before it goes back in and painting the engine bay as well Quoting: bro tim Should probably spray some lube all over the lifter valley and cylinders, so that water doesn't start more corrosion. Pressure wash was good, I've used oven cleaner but Castrol Super Clean is a good degreaser, just don't want it on glass. If you go back a page or two, there's some pic posting instructions back there. Ok thanks 😊👍 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84516296 United States 11/29/2022 09:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 10:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 10:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm in the South so it's mostly surface rust except for where the driver side floorboard is and the driver's door has a little crease in it that can be fixed. My question is it has the 215 aluminum engine experimental engine that is! Yes I'm excited about it but the engine won't turn over everything is seized and hasn't been ran since 1972. The intake is now off of it and the heads are about to come off to be redone but a rebuild kit is through the roof. What are you guys thought about loosening it up and if the Pistons are tight and everything else is tight just getting the heads done and putting the manifold back on and running it that way? Anyone? Quoting: bro tim |
Lost Pottawatomi
User ID: 78225850 United States 11/29/2022 10:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bringing back a car that is "discouraged" is an act of love and appreciation for the work that created it, and all the people who made it REAL. Appreciation is a very loaded word. Would you appreciate anything enough to invest your self? Nothing shall be so certain as to permit confusion. |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/29/2022 10:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bringing back a car that is "discouraged" is an act of love and appreciation for the work that created it, and all the people who made it REAL. Quoting: Lost Pottawatomi Appreciation is a very loaded word. Would you appreciate anything enough to invest your self? Well I do have fun working on old cars so.. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84795635 United States 11/29/2022 11:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll toss a few things out here. Your cylinders are cast iron and the two upper rings on each piston are also cast iron. It sounds as if you have been attempting soak the cylinders with various methods and penetrating lubes. With rusted components, two very effective "treatments" in releasing rust are 1. heat and 2.shock/vibration. With lots of combustible material in close proximity, heat is not a good choice. A. Shock: Shock in the form of a piece of oak that will fit in the 3.5" bore and a short handled sledge or a heavy ball-pen hammer should do the trick. (caution, you're only trying to shake the piston around a little allowing some penetrating oil to find its way around the rings, DONT GET TOO HEAVY HANDED) do this on all 8 cylinders, keeping a small amount of penetrant visible on all cylinders. You will likely need to repeat this process several times. I don't know which method you're using attempting to rotate the crankshaft. 1. removing the starter to access the flexplate ring gear is one location. 2.Removing the vibration damper, reinstalling the keyway key in its grove and a large crescent (adjustable wrench)clenched on the shaft so that it catches on the key when rotated will provide some extra torque too. B.Vibration: will entail the use of a pneumatic muffler gun and some creative tool building. I have a phone call from an old buddy on hold, I'll come back later and explain a little more on using vibration. |
Lost Pottawatomi
User ID: 72697868 United States 11/30/2022 12:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I love this thread. Kroil is one of the few things I will endorse as having near magical effectiveness. My machinist father introduced it to me 50 years ago. When the cheap stuff wouldn't work, you cracked out the Aero-Kroil. To this day, I regard the unique smell of Kroil as the smell of SUCCESS, and even to the point of dabbing some on my my neck as cologne sometimes. It's expensive for a real good reason. Nothing shall be so certain as to permit confusion. |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/30/2022 06:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll toss a few things out here. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84795635 Your cylinders are cast iron and the two upper rings on each piston are also cast iron. It sounds as if you have been attempting soak the cylinders with various methods and penetrating lubes. With rusted components, two very effective "treatments" in releasing rust are 1. heat and 2.shock/vibration. With lots of combustible material in close proximity, heat is not a good choice. A. Shock: Shock in the form of a piece of oak that will fit in the 3.5" bore and a short handled sledge or a heavy ball-pen hammer should do the trick. (caution, you're only trying to shake the piston around a little allowing some penetrating oil to find its way around the rings, DONT GET TOO HEAVY HANDED) do this on all 8 cylinders, keeping a small amount of penetrant visible on all cylinders. You will likely need to repeat this process several times. I don't know which method you're using attempting to rotate the crankshaft. 1. removing the starter to access the flexplate ring gear is one location. 2.Removing the vibration damper, reinstalling the keyway key in its grove and a large crescent (adjustable wrench)clenched on the shaft so that it catches on the key when rotated will provide some extra torque too. B.Vibration: will entail the use of a pneumatic muffler gun and some creative tool building. I have a phone call from an old buddy on hold, I'll come back later and explain a little more on using vibration. Cool ....ok Thanks ... |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/30/2022 06:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll toss a few things out here. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84795635 Your cylinders are cast iron and the two upper rings on each piston are also cast iron. It sounds as if you have been attempting soak the cylinders with various methods and penetrating lubes. With rusted components, two very effective "treatments" in releasing rust are 1. heat and 2.shock/vibration. With lots of combustible material in close proximity, heat is not a good choice. A. Shock: Shock in the form of a piece of oak that will fit in the 3.5" bore and a short handled sledge or a heavy ball-pen hammer should do the trick. (caution, you're only trying to shake the piston around a little allowing some penetrating oil to find its way around the rings, DONT GET TOO HEAVY HANDED) do this on all 8 cylinders, keeping a small amount of penetrant visible on all cylinders. You will likely need to repeat this process several times. I don't know which method you're using attempting to rotate the crankshaft. 1. removing the starter to access the flexplate ring gear is one location. 2.Removing the vibration damper, reinstalling the keyway key in its grove and a large crescent (adjustable wrench)clenched on the shaft so that it catches on the key when rotated will provide some extra torque too. B.Vibration: will entail the use of a pneumatic muffler gun and some creative tool building. I have a phone call from an old buddy on hold, I'll come back later and explain a little more on using vibration. I have air tools and I also have a air hammer |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/30/2022 06:12 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I love this thread. Quoting: Lost Pottawatomi Kroil is one of the few things I will endorse as having near magical effectiveness. My machinist father introduced it to me 50 years ago. When the cheap stuff wouldn't work, you cracked out the Aero-Kroil. To this day, I regard the unique smell of Kroil as the smell of SUCCESS, and even to the point of dabbing some on my my neck as cologne sometimes. It's expensive for a real good reason. Just ordered a 10 oz. Spray can .Thanks ... |
seekergeek
User ID: 84820444 United States 11/30/2022 06:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I would say try different penetrating oils, whatever you prefer. Let it soak for a week or two. Pull the heads and use wood and a hammer to knock on the pistons. Once you have knocked on all of them for a while, tap on one that is high in the cylinder and see if you can get it to move a little. If it moves, go to another one high in the cylinder and tap a bit to get it to move a little more. Then use a breaker bar to turn the engine a very small amount back and forth. Watch for slop in the different pistons as you rock the engine and listen for clunks. If there is a clunk and slop the bottom end needs a full rebuild for sure. Did you check the oil first thing? If there is no oil or it looks like coolant is mixed with the oil then its probably scrap. Did you examine the block from the bottom to look for holes, cracks and popped freeze plugs? Those are indicators it is scrap. If you are on a tight budget maybe a engine swap is in order, especially if you have the skills and tools to fabricate. For getting the engine out if it wont turn, maybe pull the cross member, otherwise you will have to pull the transmission from the torque converter which most likely will damage the pump and or the casting of the transmission. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84795635 United States 11/30/2022 08:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll toss a few things out here. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84795635 Your cylinders are cast iron and the two upper rings on each piston are also cast iron. It sounds as if you have been attempting soak the cylinders with various methods and penetrating lubes. With rusted components, two very effective "treatments" in releasing rust are 1. heat and 2.shock/vibration. With lots of combustible material in close proximity, heat is not a good choice. A. Shock: Shock in the form of a piece of oak that will fit in the 3.5" bore and a short handled sledge or a heavy ball-pen hammer should do the trick. (caution, you're only trying to shake the piston around a little allowing some penetrating oil to find its way around the rings, DONT GET TOO HEAVY HANDED) do this on all 8 cylinders, keeping a small amount of penetrant visible on all cylinders. You will likely need to repeat this process several times. I don't know which method you're using attempting to rotate the crankshaft. 1. removing the starter to access the flexplate ring gear is one location. 2.Removing the vibration damper, reinstalling the keyway key in its grove and a large crescent (adjustable wrench)clenched on the shaft so that it catches on the key when rotated will provide some extra torque too. B. Vibration: will entail the use of a pneumatic muffler gun and some creative tool building. I have a phone call from an old buddy on hold, I'll come back later and explain a little more on using vibration. A LONG PHONE CALL! I just read that you have an air hammer, usually they come with an assortment of bits, if you have a longer one that you're willing to sacrifice, cut it off to be flat on the bottom leaving it as long as possible. You'll need a 1/4" to 3/8" thick steel disc, slightly smaller in diameter than the depression in the top of the piston. Weld a short length of pipe about 1.5", vertically in the center of the steel disc. The pipe ID. should be such that the flat bottom bit can slide freely. Install the new tool in the gun, being careful not to touch the trigger(it's possible to dangerously eject the entire tool until it is firmly held against the piston.) using about 90 psi connect the air hose. Center the disc in the depression, insert the flat bottom tool in the vertical pipe. Holding downward pressure on the gun use short bursts as you slightly shift holding pressure. Do this on all 8 cylinders. Bare in mind that penetrating oil on the piston may splash back at you. Also, your mission is just vibrating the piston and rings. |
Dorknozzle
User ID: 77404232 United States 11/30/2022 09:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're in over your head. Most likely the block can't be saved. Today, all-aluminum engines are commonplace throughout the American auto industry. The novelty wore off some years ago. But back in 1961, Buick’s aluminum V8 was a bold innovation for the Motor City. That year, General Motors launched its senior compacts, the Buick Special, Oldsmobile F-85, and Pontiac Tempest. These three products included a number of advanced technical features, and the new 215 cubic-inch lightweight V8 was one of the more noteworthy items. [link to macsmotorcitygarage.com (secure)] Dork Nozzle |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84803193 United States 11/30/2022 09:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84803193 United States 11/30/2022 09:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | you have one of two routes - one, dump some liquid wrench in the cylinders and crank to get it to turn again, then you can drive it for oh, 100 miles max and then it will explode. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 61808181 two, rebuild it correctly and yea it will take about $10,000.00 to build the MOTOR (alone) correctly. Sell the car to someone who can afford to do it correctly, don't destroy it! I rebuild my own engines but the rebuild kit is close to $2,000 and the Machine work would be probably six or seven hundred The heads alone will be $1500. Cast iron also warps over time, so the heads might need shaving, and block decked, so that might create a piston height issue. The shortblock needs to go directly to the machine shop and let them tear it down, or you're bound to crack or gouge a cylinder getting the pistons out. How do you know the block isn't cracked? Crank and rods are probably welded together, so add another 2 grand . The poster who suggested a crate motor was right. Put the numbers matching block on a shelf and eventually sell it with the car and the value won't take a hit. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84795635 United States 11/30/2022 09:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Something else, I read that the car hasn't ran since I was a senior in high school, what I didn't see, is where where the engine ran when parked. Is it possible that a catastrophic engine failure put the little Buick out of commission? I hope not. Some engine rebuild thoughts: oil pump, timing chain and gears, cam bearings, lifters Also I noticed some "sludge" in the valley. I don't recall if PCV was present on GM engines that early (could have just been a "road draft tube") at that point. Be sure that either system is in good working order. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 84314613 United States 11/30/2022 09:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/30/2022 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You're in over your head. Most likely the block can't be saved. Quoting: Dorknozzle Today, all-aluminum engines are commonplace throughout the American auto industry. The novelty wore off some years ago. But back in 1961, Buick’s aluminum V8 was a bold innovation for the Motor City. That year, General Motors launched its senior compacts, the Buick Special, Oldsmobile F-85, and Pontiac Tempest. These three products included a number of advanced technical features, and the new 215 cubic-inch lightweight V8 was one of the more noteworthy items. [link to macsmotorcitygarage.com (secure)] Dang son lol! Are you a writer for a big City magazine!? LOL |
bro tim
(OP) User ID: 84136394 United States 11/30/2022 12:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'll toss a few things out here. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 84795635 Your cylinders are cast iron and the two upper rings on each piston are also cast iron. It sounds as if you have been attempting soak the cylinders with various methods and penetrating lubes. With rusted components, two very effective "treatments" in releasing rust are 1. heat and 2.shock/vibration. With lots of combustible material in close proximity, heat is not a good choice. A. Shock: Shock in the form of a piece of oak that will fit in the 3.5" bore and a short handled sledge or a heavy ball-pen hammer should do the trick. (caution, you're only trying to shake the piston around a little allowing some penetrating oil to find its way around the rings, DONT GET TOO HEAVY HANDED) do this on all 8 cylinders, keeping a small amount of penetrant visible on all cylinders. You will likely need to repeat this process several times. I don't know which method you're using attempting to rotate the crankshaft. 1. removing the starter to access the flexplate ring gear is one location. 2.Removing the vibration damper, reinstalling the keyway key in its grove and a large crescent (adjustable wrench)clenched on the shaft so that it catches on the key when rotated will provide some extra torque too. B. Vibration: will entail the use of a pneumatic muffler gun and some creative tool building. I have a phone call from an old buddy on hold, I'll come back later and explain a little more on using vibration. A LONG PHONE CALL! I just read that you have an air hammer, usually they come with an assortment of bits, if you have a longer one that you're willing to sacrifice, cut it off to be flat on the bottom leaving it as long as possible. You'll need a 1/4" to 3/8" thick steel disc, slightly smaller in diameter than the depression in the top of the piston. Weld a short length of pipe about 1.5", vertically in the center of the steel disc. The pipe ID. should be such that the flat bottom bit can slide freely. Install the new tool in the gun, being careful not to touch the trigger(it's possible to dangerously eject the entire tool until it is firmly held against the piston.) using about 90 psi connect the air hose. Center the disc in the depression, insert the flat bottom tool in the vertical pipe. Holding downward pressure on the gun use short bursts as you slightly shift holding pressure. Do this on all 8 cylinders. Bare in mind that penetrating oil on the piston may splash back at you. Also, your mission is just vibrating the piston and rings. Ok Thanks. |