Rapture^

Exactly, he called them "friends".

Just like you, many always say that if Jesus' own disciples were killed, what makes you think you'll escape tribulation by a rapture?

John the Baptist referred to himself as a friend of the Bridegroom.

John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

At the Wedding Feast (Marriage Supper), the apostles are not referred to as the Bride.

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Most think right away of Jesus dying for his friends, which of course is true.

But his friends also died for him. All the apostles were killed or martyred except Judas

who committed suicide and John the beloved, Jesus' closest friend.

Apostles dying for Jesus had extra meaning to it.
At Wedding Feast (Marriage Supper), the apostles are referred to as the "Friends" of the Bridegroom.

Jesus is going to sweep his Bride to be off her feet.

The rapture has to be prior to tribulation.

If the rapture was post tribulation then there would be nobody left to populate the millennium in natural bodies.

Zechariah 14:16 & Revelation 20:8 are examples of the nations of people with natural bodies in the millennium.

No unbelievers will enter the millennium.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

The tares are gathered first, then the wheat.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Since no unbeliever will enter the millennium, those with natural bodies can only be the tribulation saints saved during and come out of tribulation.

A post tribulation rapture would leave nobody left with natural bodies to go into the millennium.

So that also means that the rapture had to have taken place already before the tribulation even started.

so also Christ was offered once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
Hebrews 9:28

I do understand it friend and not talking about the above, what is the 7 years referred to as? Tribulation is it not? That was what I meant above, not the first 3 1/2 years as you’re trying to sow confusion and misconstrue my point.

I’ve stated numerous times in this thread the Great Tribulation is the second half of the 7-year Tribulation <— with the highlighted word meaning the entire 7 year Tribulation as was the context I was referring to above meaning Rapture happening after the entire 7 years being absurd given God’s wrath would have already been poured out, about tired of the weak semantics game you and others have attempted regarding the word “Tribulation” and God’s wrath like the above as it’s old. I understand clearly that the Great Tribulation is God’s wrath.


My question for you if we’re asking questions is why do you have such disdain for scripture and Christ’s promise for us to rescue us? Why do you fail to understand that the church is never mentioned after Chapter 4 in Revelation through Chapter 20 which deals with the 7-year Tribulation? I can tell you why, it’s because they are in Heaven with Christ and do not experience any Tribulation or Great Tribulation. Hope that is clear enough for you.

https://imgur.com/a/eiLghbB

Rapture — believers meet Christ in the air
Second Coming — Christ returns to the Mount of Olives to meet the believers on earth
Rapture — Mount of Olives is unchanged
Second Coming — Mount of Olives is divided, forming a valley east of Jerusalem
Rapture — living believers obtain glorified bodies
Second Coming — living believers remain in same bodies
Rapture — believers go to heaven
Second Coming — glorified believers come from heaven, earthly believers stay on earth
Rapture — world left unjudged and living in sin
Second Coming — world is judged and righteousness is established
Rapture — depicts deliverance of the Church from wrath
Second Coming — depicts deliverance of believers who endured wrath
Rapture — no signs precede it
Second Coming — many signs precede it
Rapture — revealed only in New Testament
Second Coming — revealed in both Old and New Testaments
Rapture — deals with only the saved
Second Coming — deals with both the saved and unsaved
Rapture — Satan remains free
Second Coming — Satan is bound and thrown into the Abyss

It is not, and clearly you do NOT understand it.

This period of time is properly known as 'Daniel's 70th Week'.

Not 'the Tribulation' or 'the Great Tribulation'.

It is true that tribulation occurs during Daniel's 70th Week, but other things occur also besides tribulation.

Namely, the Wrath of God (which is NOT tribulation).





Then your understanding is flawed and you are in error.

The scripture clearly says that God's Wrath begins at the 6th Seal: (look it up please)

"For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:17

Therefore everything that comes before this point in time is NOT God's Wrath.

Your 'understanding' is pedantic, at best. You know the lingo, but you cannot back it up with substance from scripture.





This is what it has come to between brothers in Christ?
On a Non-Essential doctrine??

You accuse me of disdain for the scriptures if I do not believe like you do?

What if I have studied this particular issue twice or more as long as you?
What if you indeed are wrong?

Get some humility and rethink your position that you have read about from others.

To clarify "tribulation".

Tribulation is a term used to refer to the general time period encompassing the last days that starts when the Age of Grace ends.

When the Age of Grace ends with the rapture, tribulation begins, but tribulation doesn't start off with Daniel's 70th week right away.

Why do you not understand

that the Wrath of God is the last 3 1/2 years

of the 7-year Tribulation?

OP did you ever consider that the whole idea of Jesus rapturing only Christians to heaven.. might be a big trick of the dark shits. You ones are not special and Jesus never started this sick religion. Ponder that one.

the great ones who incarnate on this world do not start specific mind controlling religions that in joining you avoid hell but the other billions get fried. This is STUPID TO THE CORE. And EVIL

Prove it with scripture

The only way to true rapture is to fapperize yourself 3 times a day.

- One for Breaksfast
- One for Lunch
- One for Dinner

Do this 3X a day, and you will guarantee rapturing yourself!

Rapture is fake

IT is all fake

You are sheep! His flock! LOL HAHAHAHAHA

B r a i n W a s h e d....
Poor SOULS....
Brainwashed!
Belief Belief Belief... Where's experience go?
Where's your EXPERIENCE? You Sheep!

You believe and believe in all that He says

Who is he ??

Rapture Fapture!

Fapture Rapture!

Rapturize yourself!
Fapperize yourself!

You ask if this is what it's come to between brother's in Christ when you personally attack me multiple times above, asking what my nefarious gain is obfuscating facts, asking what I stand to gain in promoting lies, claiming that my understanding is flawed, claiming that my understanding is pedantic at best, saying that I cannot back up anything I've stated with scripture and to get some humility and rethink my position that I've read from others?

And you ask me if this is what has come between brother's in Christ while agreeing with me Daniel's 70th week includes Tribulation which was my point all along?

You then infer after saying I know basically nothing on this subject, that you've studied this "particular issue" twice or more as long as I.




Let me quote you scholar and see if you can clear something up for me from your own words.

And I quote,



But then you go on scholar, and say-



Scholar, can you clear up your obvious blunder above if we're so hung up on God's wrath (sowing confusion in this thread and not talking about the Rapture which is what this thread is labeled) where you state-

The scripture clearly says that God's Wrath begins at the 6th Seal: (look it up please)

and then,

"God's Wrath = Seal 7 to the end."



Thanks brother.

Can you clarify where you apparently see a 'blunder'?

Please don't waste my time with something that I have already answered.

[BTW - your pre-trib belief is what causes you to think there is some sort of 'blunder' ... you see how incorrect interpretation can effect your theology?]

The thread is about the Rapture, which occurs scripturally immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation and immediately BEFORE the Wrath of God falls.
This timing is confirmed by Jesus Christ in His Olivet Discourse.

This timing is detailed quite clearly from Revelation 6:12-17 to Revelation 7:9-17
Revelation 8 is where God's Wrath begins.

The pattern was initially established by The Flood.
On the selfsame day that the Flood began, Noah entered into the Ark.
Same thing will happen at the Rapture .. immediately preceeding the Wrath of God:

"And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood."

"In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark"

Why don't you read the sections of scripture that I have detailed above for yourself.

You can read, can't you?

You can ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, instead of Tim LaHaye and the Left Behind series of fiction.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

Why wouldn't Jesus rescue His own?

He did and does every day.

Bump

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Last Edited by Judethz on 01/06/2023 11:54 AM

God has not appointed us to Wrath, but Jesus DID say that we would have tribulation:


"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."


"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

So why then would He let His Bride go into hell on earth?

It's not hell.

It's called tribulation.

People in it every day.

And the Tribulation some Christian's have always faced in this world

has nothing to do with the one and only The Tribulation, Daniel's 70th Week, the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

Do you not understand this?

When Christ Jesus Gives HIS Strongest Witness (entirety of John ch 17), HE Gives it as a Prayer. Only Witness HE Ever Gave as a Prayer...

Maybe, just maybe, it is important; but so few who Claim HIM know what HE Says there.

This, John 17, is HIS Witness Of The Born-Again Life. In verse 15, HE Asks HIS Father 'Not to remove Born-Agains from this world, but to "Preserve (them) Against ALL evil".

The phony rapture doctrine discovered in the 18/19th century is all about fear; fear of God's Wrath in the great tribulation. But golly, doesn't Jesus also Witness in Matt 24:21-24 that in the Final Days, "All flesh will be destroyed if the days not be shortened. For The Very Elect's sake, those days Will BE Shortened!"

So...

Who are The Very Elect? This correlates to Matt 22:14 all about Those Who Chose (elected) to Answer Father's Call and were thereby Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again.

satan's plan is to destroy all flesh before Christ Jesus' Return. Not gonna happen because of The Very Elect. Are you one who Took Action and Gave God Your Life???

Those Jesus Witnesses of in John 17 are Born-Agains. "Preserved Against ALL evil" and Abiding With HIM and The Father as HE Abides With The Father.

Got fear?
God Removes it, once you are HIS.
Unable to live in confidence?
God Always Makes Our Way!
Need Guidance?
In Ezk 36:26, HE Says HE Will "Put MY Spirit Within you".
The Holy Spirit Guides our lives with HIS Witness.

Can't Trust God with all you are and all you ever will be?
Guess all you can do is trust your iniquity and self-will to see you through. As if you can do better than God...


IF you're HIS, you KNOW It!
If your Born-Again, your Are A Partaker Of HIS Holiness.

Jesus already Won The Victory on calvary.

What remains is for you to Take Action and Come Unto The Father, not to live in fear and pin your self-willed hopes on God who already Gave HIS Only Son To Make The Way For You To Abide With and In-HIM!

God's Truth is real.
Men's religious fantasies are a mode of dysfunction and don't Serve God in any way.

Believing in "the rapture" is self-willed and in opposition to The Witness of Christ which is The Gospel.


Who you gonna Trust? God, or some phony doctrine that Jesus Witnesses directly against?

Yeah, I completely understand it.

Tribulation: a cause/state of great trouble or suffering.


Many Christians the world over are in tribulation right now.

It will get worse ... thus Great Tribulation.

Why are they not raptured now?

Why do you think that you should suffer no tribulation?

Jesus said that you would suffer tribulation ...

Are you calling Christ a liar?

Sure, for the second time your blunder is claiming God's wrath as beginning at seal 6 and then claiming His wrath is seal 7 to the end contradicting yourself as to the beginning of God's wrath.

The scripture clearly says that God's Wrath begins at the 6th Seal: (look it up please)

God's Wrath = Seal 7 to the end.

But the above is beside the point. You haven't even grasped the fact that the Great Tribulation is the last half of the 7-year Tribulation and that the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God.

I see where your problem is, your premise is not even scriptural to begin with so even adding anything or trying to explain to you is pointless.

You deny the very basis of scripture that is the promise of a 7-year Tribulation with the last 3 1/2 years (middle point of the 7-year Tribulation) beginning when Satan is cast out of heaven for good whereby he assumes bodily autonomy of the Anti-Christ which is mid-way through the 7-year Tribulation and marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation which is God's ultimate wrath on an unrepentant people before Jesus returns.

If you can't even grasp that very simple concept above, discussing anything further is pointless.

"The thread is about the Rapture, which occurs scripturally immediately AFTER the Great Tribulation and immediately BEFORE the Wrath of God falls."


Your statement above is nonscriptural and contradicts basic elementary knowledge of scripture regarding Christ's return. Your timeline is upside down.




The church is mentioned 19 times in Revelation chapters 1-3. Revelation 4:1 foreshadows the Rapture of the church by John the revelator and from Chapters 4-20, the events of the 7-year Tribulation are described in great detail along with God's judgments and the church is never mentioned once in these chapters because the church isn't on earth friend. The Rapture marks the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation when the daily sacrifice is removed Dan. 12:11.


I can see why you're so lost regarding the Rapture, God's wrath, and Jesus' second coming. God's word wholeheartedly disagrees with your premise above, basic elementary knowledge of Revelation disagrees with you.


The countless disparaging remarks and ad hominem attacks are rich though friend and prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about here. Thanks for the contribution and good luck to you.

One does NOT become Born Again by 'giving God your life' or 'coming unto the Father'.


One becomes Born Again today by believing The Gospel.
Period.


What is 'the Gospel', you ask?

In the most clear presentation of the Gospel in the Word of God, it is:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved."

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures"
1Corinthians 15

Do you believe this?
Do you trust this to save you and nothing else?

You are a nitpicking bullshitter.

I've detailed with more specificity above when Wrath starts.

Wrath is not Tribulation, nor Great Tribulation.

You know it too, you liar.


This verse was practically MADE for you:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

An argument from absence is no argument at all.

The church is not mentioned in many places in scripture.

If that's the best you got, go back to your lego blocks, son.