Jesus clearly specifies the difference between the pre-Tribulation Rapture and His return post-Tribulation

A question that I've always had -
Are (Born Again)Believers considered 'the Elect'?

A 'Believer' would presuppose that a belief is enjoined ...

Whereas 'the Elect' .. I'm not sure.

Are 'the Elect' those who 'give their lives to Christ', rather than believing the Gospel for salvation?

Both are lies of man designed to deceive you.

I found that scripture .. it is at the 5th Seal opening.

There is another group at the very next Seal, the 6th Seal.
This group is so large 'a great multitude, which no man could number'.

This 6th Seal group appears to include the 5th Seal martyrs, as the 6th Seal group is already arrayed in white robes:

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"

The 6th Seal group is innumerable and thus much greater in size than the 5th Seal group of martyrs (to the writer).

So this 6th Seal group must include the dead in Christ (who were not martyrs), the living in Christ at His Return, and the 5th Seal martyrs themselves.

In fact, this 6th Seal group is so large and suddenly appears in Heaven that this pictures the harvest/ingathering of His elect/believers (to me).

So what isn't a lie of man designed to deceive you?

Jesus answered,

“It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

Matthew 4:4

Lying demon spawn.

It's my understanding

That God hates all His enemies

Then it would benefit one to know whether they are friend or foe of God.

The reason some 'Christians' will be left behind is because of willful sin simply put. Jesus refences this exact question in the Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins.

The oil in the parable is the Holy Spirit. Those who have oil in their vessels are not living in willful sin and are Watching. All 10 Virgins are saved because of faith hence why they are virgins but due to the chosen lifestyles of the foolish and of their willful sin that grieves and quenches the Holy Spirit, they have no oil in their vessels when Jesus arrives and are therefore left behind. Jesus mentions specific sins such as drunkenness, sexual immorality, and carousing that will be the cause of people being left behind.


Sin and the Child of God

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 3: 4-9



We all struggle with sin and every single human being is a sinner, faith alone in Jesus Christ saves a person's soul.

Why does God leave some behind? Free-will of a person and their choice to not abide in Him. Jesus asks us to pray to be counted worthy and by this I believe He wants us to pray to be delivered and freed from the chains that imprison us, these chains are sin and Jesus came to set the captives free and He alone can free us.

The reason many will be left behind may be multi-faceted in reason, I'm not sure. God's ultimate plan is divine and is inconceivable by our limited cognitive range. Maybe those left behind will be incredible ministers to those who are lost during this 7-year Tribulation as they realize why they were left behind and truly turn from the world. A person missing the Rapture does not equate to loss of salvation, it means they have no oil in their lamps which is the Holy Spirit because of sin.



If you're familiar with Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy, you will know there is one week left to be fulfilled. This last week isn't scripturally referred to as the '7-year Tribulation' but is referenced as the '7-year Tribulation' because it's seven years in length and is a time of promised Tribulation which God will hand down as judgment on unbelievers and the unrepentant with the last half of these 7 years being referred to as 'Great Tribulation'. The first seal opened who is the rider on the white horse is the Anti-Christ and the opening of this seal begins this 7-year period of judgment that must be fulfilled. The second seal opened which is the rider on the red horse removes peace from the earth where people kill each other and so on. The seals are chronological in order and increase in severity after each seal is opened.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

Daniel 9:27




since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels

2 Thessalonians 1: 6-7

So turn to the Lord while you are still blessed with a little time.

Hi Seek, do you find it just a bit too easy and convenient that a mythical creature called Satan is to blame for all our sinning, and then Christ was here to “bear the sin of many”?

So none of the bad things that we do is our fault and we don’t have to face the consequences of our poor choices because Christ shouldered all our sins for us, simply by us becoming believers in a particular religion?

When we make a mistake, what will we have learned to improve ourselves when someone else takes the blame and another takes the consequences?

And we are indeed here to learn and grow up spiritually to greater wisdom and benevolent maturity. And that could only be done when we take full responsibility for our mistakes and bear the consequences.

So often we hear from successful people that they learned the most from their mistakes and then make improvements.

Should we not do the same?

Jesus taught us how to improve our lives, not to do it for us.

For Christ to return for our salvation doesn’t help us learn to grow up. All it does is make us rely on someone else to fix the problems we created. If young children were to do that we would called them immature, but somehow when believing Christ will return to save us is considered a good thing.

And lastly, would the concept of Rapture and Tribulation that divides us in hierarchy contradicts kindness, forgiveness, unity, and equality that are the Word of God?

The caring and compassionate God is pure love. In pure love, there will always be unity, inclusion, and equality. Never division, exclusion, and hierarchy, all of which are attributes of the human ego mind.

All the best!

That advice is only valid if one believes God will judge us to reward or to punish.

What if God is not judgemental unlike what we do here in low awareness?

And Jesus taught us to have love for our enemies for good reason, why then would some believe God would not?

God does judge and He rewards and punishes, this is why He is just and thankfully He is on the throne.

Judgment is lifted from those in Christ because they are covered by Christ's redeeming blood and have on His robe of righteousness and therefore are spotless in the eyes of the Father.





I will greatly rejoice in the Lord,

My soul shall be joyful in my God;

For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation,

He has covered me with the robe of righteousness,

As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments,

And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Isaiah 61:10

A bit too easy? This life is anything but easy and a person is not guaranteed their next breath. There are billions on this planet at this very moment walking around completely lost with no belief in God whatsoever of if they do believe in a god, it's in vain (because they have been deceived). They are tip-toeing on the edge of eternity and if they die in the state mentioned above, they are eternally lost.

People do not realize the magnitude of what Jesus did for us and what He saved us from. God flooded the entire world, think about that.

Secondly, when you refer to Satan as 'mythical', are you claiming he doesn't exist? I can assure you Satan is very real and seemingly has you fooled to the truth judging by your wording in this thread thus far. Satan is the father of lies and the greatest deceiver ever created. Look at the world today for that proof.

What truth saves a person?

Jesus Christ is the truth and the only one who can save your soul and the consequences for the refusal of God's free gift who is His Son is eternal separation from Him in torment, regret, and no rest forever. That is the truth whether you choose to accept it or not or whether you like it or not. The gift is free and God has provided a way out. He gave you life and He owes you nothing. It's time for people to come to grips with this sobering fact.

People do not realize that God is sovereign. People do not realize that everything good is from God, they take for granted that everything good they've ever experienced in life is a gift from God. God isn't a joke or some fable. His word isn't a joke or some fable. He is omnipresent and omnipotent meaning He's everywhere at all times and He's all-powerful bound by nothing. You cannot hide from Him, your thoughts are revealed to Him. He knows the future. The only reason you're breathing is by His grace alone. He created the heavens and the earth and all life within the universe, He is the architect and He is the Creator. The reason judgment is upon us is because people have forgotten God and do not fear Him.

Lastly, to your question about learning and improving ourselves and taking full responsibility for our mistakes. What you need to realize is there is a reason why Jesus did what He did for us when He stepped off His throne in Heaven and came down to earth. He did what no man could do for us.

When God created Adam and Eve, He provided for their every need and His intention was that they would never experience death. Sin entered the world through man and the wages of sin is death. Sin are the chains that bind and imprison us and we are in bondage because Satan has deceived us to the reality of sin and that it leads to death. God sent His Son Jesus who came down to break these chains and free us with the knowledge of the truth.

Upon true belief and faith in Jesus who God sent to save you and the realization of what He did for you, God puts His Holy Spirit within you. The Holy Spirit begins working within a person supernaturally. He is there to guide you, counsel you, and ultimately give you peace while living in this fallen world. Yes, we make mistakes and learn from them but the Holy Spirit is a gift from God who is God Himself and He is there to improve us, impart wisdom, and grow us. This is why those who become aware of the truth depart from sin and this is in thanks to the Holy Spirit. There is no better counselor than God Himself through the Holy Spirit to help us learn and grow in the knowledge of God. Again, this is a supernatural process done by God Himself within the believer.

Sorry for snipping out most of your reply, there was so much there .. I just want to take care and unpack these ideas carefully.

I was always taught that Christ died for all our sins upon the cross.

In fact, that was the central message of salvation to believe ... the Gospel of Jesus Christ; how that Christ died for our sins, was buried for 3 days and rose again in resurrection power.

You mentioned willful sin being the cause of being left behind ... although all honest christians struggle with willful sin.

Aren't willful sins forgiven at the cross too?

And if these willful sins aren't forgiven, what standard is being used for salvation if everyone commits willful sin?


Thank you for taking the time to clear up this misunderstanding that I seem to have ...

We were always taught that upon believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit seals and indwells the believer, never to leave you or forsake you.

No Holy Spirit? No sealing and no salvation.

Are you saying that it is possible to be saved without the Holy Spirit indwelling you?

Or perhaps I am misunderstanding something?

Quick followup-

The reason that the Holy Spirit can indwell us (as I was taught) is that our sins have been forgiven us.

If our sins have been forgiven us and the Holy Spirit comes in, how could sins cause the Holy Spirit to leave ... since sins have already been forgiven?

Just trying to wrap my head around this ...

In our prophecy class we learned that Daniel 9:24

"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place."

refers to the fulfillment of 6 key things about the people and the city of Jerusalem:

- finish the transgression
- put an end to sin
- atone for iniquity
- bring in everlasting righteousness
- seal both vision and prophet
- anoint a most holy place

The first 4 of these keys were fulfilled by Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry; the last 2 will be fulfilled at His Return.

We know that Jesus' earthly ministry lasted exactly 3.5 years and since key prophecy was being fulfilled, we also know that the final 7-year timeclock was running.

So 3.5 years have run out, therefore 3.5 years remain on the prophecy of Daniel.

3.5 years is 1260 days and echos the time of Great Tribulation when the antichrist will kill anyone that doesn't worship him.

Jesus referred to this time and told the people to flee into the wilderness for 3.5 years. He called it the Great Tribulation by the antichrist, not judgement from God (yet).

To conclude, I think this is where the confusion arises when a '7-year tribulation' is referenced, or when the tribulation is called the wrath and judgement of God, when it is clearly used by satan to murder christians and make them 5th Seal martyrs.

The Judgements and Wrath of God begin immediately after the Great Tribulation of those days and is separated from those days by the 6th Seal.

For those of you who would like to know more about the Rapture here are some interesting and well written Chick illustrated tracts on this important subject.

WHERE DID THEY GO?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

HERE HE COMES!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

LETS FLY AWAY!... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

THINGS TO COME?... [link to www.chick.com (secure)]

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Live the Golden Rule - don't wait for external hand-outs or rely on external dependencies for your spiritual liberation from Samsara

the cataholics sacrifice him daily and will be waiting with lasers and shotguns the next time he shows up.

#popesdontgetraptured

These were fulfilled in the midst of the first seven

and are fulfilled again "out of the midst" of the last seven.

- finish the transgression
- put an end to sin
- atone for iniquity
- bring in everlasting righteousness
- seal both vision and prophet
- anoint a most holy place

You guys are not familiar with the early church fathers

and the patriarchs.

rapture is a VERY OLD doctrine.

The roman whore has always discredited it.

precisely because it reveals their antichrist

replacement theology.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand them. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretive or possibly a translational issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

The word 'rapture' is not listed in the English bible. But it is listed in the Latin Vulgate bible, written by Jerome in the early 400's AD. The word there is ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' , which translated into English means 'rapture'. It is found here in the English bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English bibles, ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' is transliterated into 'caught up'. That happens sometimes during the translation process to try to communicate the point more familiarly.

The original Thessalonian manuscripts however were written in Greek. There were actually no 'English' words at all in the original bibles, including the word 'bible' itself. And the original Greek word for 'rapture' is listed in English script as 'harpazo', which means 'to rapture up into the air', or to 'snatch away'.

It was this original Greek term 'harpazo' that Jerome later translated into Latin as ‘rapiemur‘, 'raptus' or 'raeptius', which was later translated into English as 'rapture'. These terms all mean the same thing: 'to be caught up'.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
[link to www.raptureready.com (secure)]

Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most biblically accurate view:

1. Imminency. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Yahshua(Jesus') imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Yahshua(Jesus) returns for us. (1 Thes. 5: 4-6, 2 Thes. 3:5, 1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20-21; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21) The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Yahshua(Jesus) can return. Things like the Antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Hebrew Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgment, etc. These things destroy imminency.

[link to www.sequenceofprophecy.com]

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming? Going up to meet Yahshua(Jesus) in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the Antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. There is no mention of Yahshua(Jesus) going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Hebrews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2-3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be separated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ(or 'Bema' in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Yahshua(Jesus) to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the true Assembly(Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb(Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Seal of the Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1-5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire priesthood. In Yahshua(Jesus') new Millennial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/Antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the Antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.

6. Here are some comparisons between the Rapture & the 2nd Coming:

Rapture: is a translation or resurrection coming where the Lord comes FOR His Church/Bride (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and taking her to His Father's House. (John 14:3).
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) is coming WITH his saints/Church/Bride to set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 19; Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31)

Rapture: is a Mystery, a newly revealed truth (1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 1:26) not known to the Old Testament prophets, and making it a separate event from anything they have foreseen. The New Testament talks about the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming.
2nd Coming: was predicted in the Old Testament. (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4) The Old Testament of Israel just talks about the 2nd Coming.

Rapture: Translation (changed into immortal bodies) of all believers (1 Cor. 15:52-53)
2nd Coming: No translation of anyone (Rev. 19:11-21, Matt. 25:34) survivors of the Tribulation inherited the 1000yr Kingdom, but with no translation into immortal bodies, Isa. 65:20)

Rapture: Translated saints go up to heaven (1 Cor. 15:51-55, 1 Thess. 4:15-17)
2nd Coming: Translated saints return to earth (Rev. 19:7-8, 11-14)

Rapture: Earth is not judged at that time (1 Cor. 15:53-58, 1 Thess. 4:16-18)
2nd Coming: Earth is judged and righteousness is restored (Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 19:1-6, 20:4)

Rapture: Imminent and sign-less (Matt. 25:13, Mark 13:32-37, Luk. 12:40, Phil. 4:5, Jas. 5:8, Rev. 1:3, 22:10, Tit. 2:13, 1 Thes. 5:6)
2nd Coming: Follows exact signs and days according to Daniel and Revelation prior to (Matt. 24:15-30, Dan 9:27 & 12:11-13, Rev. 6-18)

Rapture: Is for Believers only (1 Thes. 4:13-18 “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”)
2nd Coming: Is for everyone (Matt 25:1-2 the wise and the foolish virgins; Matt. 25:46 the sheep & the goats)

Rapture: Happens before the Day of Wrath (1 Thes, 4:13-18 & 1 Cor. 15:51-55; neither mentions the Antichrist, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse, the 7 Seal judgments, the 7 trumpet judgments, the 7 bowl/vial judgments, the Wrath of God, Armageddon, or the wheat/tare & sheep/goat judgments thereafter)

2nd Coming: Concludes the Day of Wrath (Rev. 6-20:4; Matt. 25:31-46; Dan 9:27 & 12:11-13 specifically mention the Antichrist, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse, the 7 Seal judgments, the 7 trumpet judgments, the 7 bowl/vial judgments, the Wrath of God, Armageddon, or the wheat/tare & sheep/goat judgments thereafter.)

Rapture: Has no reference to Satan (1 Thes, 4:13-18 & 1 Cor. 15:51-55)
2nd Coming: Satan is bound up for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 20:1-3)

Rapture: Yahshua(Jesus) comes in the air only (1 Thes, 4:13-18)
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) comes down to the earth (Zech. 14:4)

Rapture: Only Christians see Him (1 Thess. 5:2 He comes “like a thief in the night” so most people won’t know it when He arrives; 1Cor. 15:52 it is said that it will happen “in the twinkling of an eye”, that’s very fast, perhaps too fast to see; Dan. 10:7 Daniel had a vision that no one else there could see; Acts 9:7 the men with Saul could not see what Saul was experiencing), and which news is “comforting” to us believers.

2nd Coming: Everyone sees Him (Rev. 1:7 says “every eye shall see Him” and “everyone on earth shall wail because of Him.”) and they are not happy about it.

Rapture: It’s a joyful and comforting occasion for believers (1 Thess. 4:13-18)
2nd Coming: It’s a terrible day of wrath and destruction for God’s enemies (Rev. 19:15-21)

Rapture: Tribulation then begins (1 Thess. 5:1-11 immediately after Paul’s discussion of the rapture in ch. 4:13-18 he then describes what comes next: the Day of the Lord, sudden destruction, no escape for those people who live in darkness. We are to watch for His rapture and be sober, knowing that we are not appointed to His wrath. That whether we be alive or dead at the time of His rapture, we will then live together with Him. Where will we live with Him? John 14:1-3 in His “Father’s House” in heaven during the Tribulation; Isa 26:20 “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast”)

2nd Coming: Millennial Kingdom begins (Rev. 20:4 those who were beheaded in the Tribulation for Yahshua(Jesus) lived & reigned with Him for 1000 years. That is the Millennial Kingdom.)

7. Practical Results of a Pre-Trib Rapture. Some people think the Pre-Tribbers have illusions of escapism that will destroy their witness and faith if the Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't play out. They think Pre-Tribbers don't care about anything or anyone because they think they have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card for the Tribulation. However, they might not realize that Yahshua(Jesus) will reward Christians for good service at the Judgment Seat of Christ later in heaven after the rapture. If there is no good Christian service, there may be little or no rewards waiting for them after the rapture.

The fact that Yahshua(Jesus) could return today for us should be a good motivator for living a good Christian life and doing good works for Christ.

Also, knowing that loved ones: friends and family, who aren't Christians will be left behind after the rapture to face the coming cataclysm of the Great Tribulation should be enough to motivate them to try to lead as many people as possible to Christ before it's too late.

If the Pre-Wrath or Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Rapture view was accurate, a simple study of Daniel's 70th Week would then show you exactly when Yahshua(Jesus) is returning for the 2nd Coming. All you have to do is note when the Antichrist's 7 year peace treaty with Israel is signed, or note just when the Antichrist's abomination of desolation in the new Hebrew Temple happens, and you can compute the exact day of our Lord's 2nd Coming. No imminency there. No need to always live a righteous life there. You could then just sin and sin and wait around until the last day before Christ's return and then repent and be good. Based on my understanding of the Bible, I just don't think it works like that.

8. Yahshua(Jesus) Himself taught about the coming Rapture. “1. Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.” -John 14:1-3
Where is Yahshua’s ‘Father’s House’? In heaven. He’s going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s House in heaven.
Then what? He will come back for us. That’s the Rapture!
What will he do after He comes back for us, set up His Millennial Kingdom here on earth then? No! He will take us (meaning to go somewhere) to be with Him. Where is He? In heaven. He takes us up to heaven at that time. He doesn’t stick around to battle the Antichrist or to save the world at that time.

Instead, He takes us to our new home, in His Father’s House, in heaven! And after the Bema Seat judgment, and after we get our white linens/robes, and after we get our white horses, and after the 7 yr. Tribulation on earth, THEN Yahshua(Jesus) returns to earth with all His angels, and us believers too on our white horses, to rid the world of the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all of Satan’s NWO armies. And only THEN does He set up the new Millennium. Only then has ‘Thy Kingdom Come’.

9. Whoever said that everyone must suffer through the Tribulation to be purified?, or to do XYZ good works in the Tribulation to get saved?

Ephesians 2:7-9
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Yahshua(Jesus).
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What about everyone who has died already who didn't suffer any hardships at all? By some people's definition, they are not saved because they have suffered no great tribulation. That just doesn't make any sense. Yahshua(Jesus) said that we would be delivered from the time and hour of God's judgment to "those who dwell on the earth." His great judgment is for those who have rejected Yahshua(Jesus), not for His children. Satan has given Christians plenty of tribulation over the years, and continues to do so even today.

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Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That is the 'Blessed Hope!'

Titus 2:13 (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Yahshua(Jesus) Christ

Maranatha!

Peace.

What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?
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Why I Believe The Bible Teaches Rapture Before Tribulation
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8. Yahshua(Jesus) Himself taught about the coming Rapture. “1. Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.” -John 14:1-3

Where is Yahshua’s ‘Father’s House’? In heaven. He’s going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s House in heaven.
Then what? He will come back for us. That’s the Rapture!

What will he do after He comes back for us, set up His Millennial Kingdom here on earth then? No! He will take us (meaning to go somewhere) to be with Him. Where is He? In heaven. He takes us up to heaven at that time. He doesn’t stick around to battle the Antichrist or to save the world at that time.

Instead, He takes us to our new home, in His Father’s House, in heaven! And after the Bema Seat judgment, and after we get our white linens/robes, and after we get our white horses, and after the 7 yr. Tribulation on earth, THEN Yahshua(Jesus) returns to earth with all His angels, and us believers too on our white horses, to rid the world of the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all of Satan’s NWO armies. And only THEN does He set up the new Millennium. Only then has ‘Thy Kingdom Come’.

Are you being serious here?

Heaven is outside of time.

Heaven is timeless .. the eternal NOW.


I just love how these deceived pre-trib cultists bring everything down to their low level.

Yes.

“There was silence in heaven for about half an hour.” - Revelation 8:1

So if a day in Heaven is 1,000 years on earth,

then 1/2 half of one Heaven hour is 1/48th of 1,000 years.

20.8333333333 years in earth time.


1/2 hour in Heaven equals 20.83333333 years on earth.

You're equating the Rapture with salvation, the two are not mutually exclusive. Because five of the ten foolish virgins were not allowed entrance into the Wedding (Rapture) due to having no oil (quenching the Holy Spirit through willful sin) does not mean they were not saved. I hope that clears up any confusion.