Putin Foiled Plans of Israel to Bomb Iran from Georgia | |
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Mr. Berkut (OP) User ID: 479981 United States 08/20/2008 10:05 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Blowback From Russian Bear - Baiting, August 15, 2008 by Patrick J. Buchanan. AntiWar.com Mikheil Saakashvili's decision to use the opening of the Olympic Games to cover Georgia's invasion of its breakaway province of South Ossetia must rank in stupidity with Gamal Abdel-Nasser's decision to close the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships. Nasser's blunder cost him the Sinai in the Six-Day War. Saakashvili's blunder probably means permanent loss of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours. Vladimir Putin took the opportunity to kick the Georgian army out of Abkhazia, as well, to bomb Tbilisi, and to seize Gori, birthplace of Stalin. Reveling in his status as an intimate of George Bush, Dick Cheney, and John McCain, and America's lone democratic ally in the Caucasus, Saakashvili thought he could get away with a lightning coup and present the world with a fait accompli. Mikheil did not reckon on the rage or resolve of the Bear. American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight – Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end. Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush. True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"? Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi? Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing? When the Soviet Union broke into 15 nations, we celebrated. When Slovenia, Croatia, Macedonia, Bosnia, Montenegro, and Kosovo broke from Serbia, we rejoiced. Why, then, the indignation when two provinces, whose peoples are ethnically separate from Georgians and who fought for their independence, should succeed in breaking away? Are secessions and the dissolution of nations laudable only when they advance the agenda of the neocons, many of whom viscerally detest Russia? That Putin took the occasion of Saakashvili's provocative and stupid stunt to administer an extra dose of punishment is undeniable. But is not Russian anger understandable? For years the West has rubbed Russia's nose in her Cold War defeat and treated her like Weimar Germany. When Moscow pulled the Red Army out of Europe, closed its bases in Cuba, dissolved the evil empire, let the Soviet Union break up into 15 states, and sought friendship and alliance with the United States, what did we do? American carpetbaggers colluded with Muscovite Scalawags to loot the Russian nation. Breaking a pledge to Mikhail Gorbachev, we moved our military alliance into Eastern Europe, then onto Russia's doorstep. Six Warsaw Pact nations and three former republics of the Soviet Union are now NATO members. Bush, Cheney, and McCain have pushed to bring Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. This would require the United States to go to war with Russia over Stalin's birthplace and who has sovereignty over the Crimean Peninsula and Sebastopol, traditional home of Russia's Black Sea fleet. When did these become U.S. vital interests, justifying war with Russia? The United States unilaterally abrogated the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty because our technology was superior, then planned to site anti-missile defenses in Poland and the Czech Republic to defend against Iranian missiles, though Iran has no ICBMs and no atomic bombs. A Russian counter-offer to have us together put an antimissile system in Azerbaijan was rejected out of hand. We built a Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline from Azerbaijan through Georgia to Turkey to cut Russia out. Then we helped dump over regimes friendly to Moscow with democratic "revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia, and tried to repeat it in Belarus. Americans have many fine qualities. A capacity to see ourselves as others see us is not high among them. Imagine a world that never knew Ronald Reagan, where Europe had opted out of the Cold War after Moscow installed those SS-20 missiles east of the Elbe. And Europe had abandoned NATO, told us to go home and become subservient to Moscow. How would we have reacted if Moscow had brought Western Europe into the Warsaw Pact, established bases in Mexico and Panama, put missile defense radars and rockets in Cuba, and joined with China to build pipelines to transfer Mexican and Venezuelan oil to Pacific ports for shipment to Asia? And cut us out? If there were Russian and Chinese advisers training Latin American armies, the way we are in the former Soviet republics, how would we react? Would we look with bemusement on such Russian behavior? For a decade, some of us have warned about the folly of getting into Russia's space and getting into Russia's face. The chickens of democratic imperialism have now come home to roost – in Tbilisi. This is a tale of US expansion not Russian aggression War in the Caucasus is as much the product of an American imperial drive as local conflicts. It's likely to be a taste of things to come |
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Berkut (OP) User ID: 479981 United States 08/20/2008 10:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | by Seumas Milne The Guardian, The outcome of six grim days of bloodshed in the Caucasus has triggered an outpouring of the most nauseating hypocrisy from western politicians and their captive media. As talking heads thundered against Russian imperialism and brutal disproportionality, US vice-president Dick Cheney, faithfully echoed by Gordon Brown and David Miliband, declared that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered". George Bush denounced Russia for having "invaded a sovereign neighbouring state" and threatening "a democratic government". Such an action, he insisted, "is unacceptable in the 21st century". Could these by any chance be the leaders of the same governments that in 2003 invaded and occupied - along with Georgia, as luck would have it - the sovereign state of Iraq on a false pretext at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives? Or even the two governments that blocked a ceasefire in the summer of 2006 as Israel pulverised Lebanon's infrastructure and killed more than a thousand civilians in retaliation for the capture or killing of five soldiers? You'd be hard put to recall after all the fury over Russian aggression that it was actually Georgia that began the war last Thursday with an all-out attack on South Ossetia to "restore constitutional order" - in other words, rule over an area it has never controlled since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Nor, amid the outrage at Russian bombardments, have there been much more than the briefest references to the atrocities committed by Georgian forces against citizens it claims as its own in South Ossetia's capital Tskhinvali. Several hundred civilians were killed there by Georgian troops last week, along with Russian soldiers operating under a 1990s peace agreement: "I saw a Georgian soldier throw a grenade into a basement full of women and children," one Tskhinvali resident, Saramat Tskhovredov, told reporters on Tuesday. Might it be because Georgia is what Jim Murphy, Britain's minister for Europe, called a "small beautiful democracy". Well it's certainly small and beautiful, but both the current president, Mikheil Saakashvili, and his predecessor came to power in western-backed coups, the most recent prettified as a "Rose revolution". Saakashvili was then initially rubber-stamped into office with 96% of the vote before establishing what the International Crisis Group recently described as an "increasingly authoritarian" government, violently cracking down on opposition dissent and independent media last November. "Democratic" simply seems to mean "pro-western" in these cases. The long-running dispute over South Ossetia - as well as Abkhazia, the other contested region of Georgia - is the inevitable consequence of the breakup of the Soviet Union. As in the case of Yugoslavia, minorities who were happy enough to live on either side of an internal boundary that made little difference to their lives feel quite differently when they find themselves on the wrong side of an international state border. Such problems would be hard enough to settle through negotiation in any circumstances. But add in the tireless US promotion of Georgia as a pro-western, anti-Russian forward base in the region, its efforts to bring Georgia into NATO, the routing of a key Caspian oil pipeline through its territory aimed at weakening Russia's control of energy supplies, and the US-sponsored recognition of the independence of Kosovo - whose status Russia had explicitly linked to that of South Ossetia and Abkhazia - and conflict was only a matter of time. The CIA has in fact been closely involved in Georgia since the Soviet collapse. But under the Bush administration, Georgia has become a fully fledged US satellite. Georgia's forces are armed and trained by the US and Israel. It has the third-largest military contingent in Iraq - hence the US need to airlift 800 of them back to fight the Russians at the weekend. Saakashvili's links with the neoconservatives in Washington are particularly close: the lobbying firm headed by US Republican candidate John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, has been paid nearly $900,000 by the Georgian government since 2004. But underlying the conflict of the past week has also been the Bush administration's wider, explicit determination to enforce US global hegemony and prevent any regional challenge, particularly from a resurgent Russia. That aim was first spelled out when Cheney was defence secretary under Bush's father, but its full impact has only been felt as Russia has begun to recover from the disintegration of the 1990s. Over the past decade, NATO's relentless eastward expansion has brought the western military alliance hard up against Russia's borders and deep into former Soviet territory. American military bases have spread across eastern Europe and central Asia, as the US has helped install one anti-Russian client government after another through a series of colour-coded revolutions. Now the Bush administration is preparing to site a missile defence system in eastern Europe transparently targeted at Russia. By any sensible reckoning, this is not a story of Russian aggression, but of US imperial expansion and ever tighter encirclement of Russia by a potentially hostile power. That a stronger Russia has now used the South Ossetian imbroglio to put a check on that expansion should hardly come as a surprise. What is harder to work out is why Saakashvili launched last week's attack and whether he was given any encouragement by his friends in Washington. If so, it has spectacularly backfired, at savage human cost. And despite Bush's attempts to talk tough yesterday, the war has also exposed the limits of US power in the region. As long as Georgia proper's independence is respected - best protected by opting for neutrality - that should be no bad thing. Unipolar domination of the world has squeezed the space for genuine self-determination and the return of some counterweight has to be welcome. But the process of adjustment also brings huge dangers. If Georgia had been a member of NATO, this week's conflict would have risked a far sharper escalation. That would be even more obvious in the case of Ukraine - which yesterday gave a warning of the potential for future confrontation when its pro-western president threatened to restrict the movement of Russian ships in and out of their Crimean base in Sevastopol. As great power conflict returns, South Ossetia is likely to be only a taste of things to come. The bear is back! |
Berkut (OP) User ID: 479981 United States 08/20/2008 10:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | August 16, 2008 by Richard M Bennett Asia Times Despite being rather moth-eaten and while still missing a claw or two, the Russian bear is definitely back in business. The conflict with Georgia over its troublesome breakaway provinces has as much to do with nationalistic pride and the Kremlin's wish to reassert itself on the international scene as a determination to protect the predominately Russian citizens of South Ossetia or the determinedly independent-minded Abkhazians. Despite constant assertions by Washington that Russia risks isolation for its military actions of the past week, it is arguable that it is the United States itself that faces the greatest dilemma. To enforce any form of diplomatic or economic "punishment" on the Russians, Washington desperately needs the wholehearted support of the international community and its closest allies in particular. For a variety of reasons, this might not be forthcoming. The former communist countries of Eastern Europe and Central Asia are increasingly and rightly wary of the growing confidence of Russia's leadership and the resurgence of Russian military capability. Western Europe remains significantly reliant on Russian energy supplies and particularly at a time of the increasing instability of international markets. India and China may well be loath to support Washington, particularly as both nations would wish to keep a free hand in dealing with areas such as Kashmir or Tibet. While not directly comparable, both these long-running problems are similar enough in that the protection of the lives and rights of their citizens may require military action at any time. It cannot be seriously denied that Washington itself also desperately needs Russian cooperation in the "war on terror" and to be "on side" over the Middle East and Iran in particular. Even in the newly ebullient and forceful mood prevailing in the Kremlin, Russian leaders must still be painfully aware that their overall military strategic position remains weak. The Kremlin needs Western technology and the willing acceptance of Russia as a major power once again. It remains unlikely that Russia will seriously involve itself in major military adventurism in the near future, nor does it seem likely that the West will seriously attempt to enforce sanctions against the Kremlin. There is simply too much at stake on both sides. A deal will be most likely struck behind closed doors in New York or Paris or Moscow. Empty rhetoric will fill the airwaves and the only long-term loser will be Georgia itself. Put simply, realpolitik or the triumph of reality over ideology will most probably and rightly prevail this time. That said, the conflict has still raised serious issues over international cooperation, understanding and trust. Conflict or the threat of conflict has bedeviled Georgia, its breakaway provinces and its international relations, particularly with Russia, since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Saakashvili - nationalist crusader President Mikheil Saakashvili came to power after November 2003 elections on a wave of nationalism and with the promise of recovering both Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In the past four years, the acquisition of significant numbers of more modern armored vehicles, artillery, multiple rocket launchers, small arms, armed helicopters, reconnaissance drones and much else could not have failed to raise alarm in the breakaway provinces and in the Kremlin. Western intelligence services were also fully aware of military developments and indeed significant numbers of US and Israeli military personnel helped the Georgian special forces in particular in preparing for large-scale counter-insurgency operations ... exactly the type of training required for any serious attempt to suppress the citizens of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia, who were certain to violently resist any Georgian takeover. This current conflict was born out of a crisis that has been simmering since the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO's) action in the former Yugoslavia and has most certainly come to boil since February 2008, when the breakaway province of Kosovo achieved a degree of doubtful international acceptance as an independent state, but only, it is suggested by many observers, after considerable pressure was exerted on its allies by the United States. There is little or no difference between Russia's actions to ensure the right of self-determination of the South Ossetians and the US/NATO support for the Kosovans. It could be argued that Russia may indeed have a valid point in suggesting that it is intensely hypocritical of Washington and London to demand that Georgia should have its sovereignty respected when Serbia, Iraq, Somalia, Panama, Afghanistan and others have had their sovereignty ignored by the US and its allies, sometimes with a degree of genuine justification, but on occasions simply on the flimsiest of evidence that would certainly not have survived the close scrutiny of a court of law. M K Bhadrakumar's masterly summing up of the political background to the conflict (The end of the post-Cold War era Asia Times Online, August 13, 2008) should be studied closely by all who wish to have a grasp of the great game played in the region between Washington and Moscow. Military build-up The lead-up to the military confrontation was however entirely predictable and indeed was flagged quite openly to all who wished to take notice. In 2005, the Georgian army was openly involved in large-scale training for integrated infantry, armored, artillery and air support operations which would appear to have had no other possible purpose but the retaking of the breakaway provinces by military force. The significant buildup of firepower, so tragically demonstrated by the Georgians' wanton destruction of the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, and vastly increased ammunition stocks and logistic support, allowed the Russian GRU (military intelligence) to draw the right conclusions. Saakashvili would use force, only the timing remained uncertain. It is significant that the United States was fully aware of the risk of conflict. The American Foreign Policy Council in Washington in its Russia Reform Monitor reported on July 11: Russia has admitted its fighter jets overflew the breakaway Georgian territory of South Ossetia in a sortie that took place just hours before US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visited Tbilisi with a message of support ... Speaking in the Georgian capital on July 10, Rice said Russia needs "to be part of resolving the problem ... and not contributing to it." However, she also said she had told Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili that "there should not be violence". On July 12: ... Georgian media have been reporting an alleged Russian Defense Ministry plan to storm the Kodori Gorge in the breakaway Georgian republic of Abkhazia, to which Russia plans to respond by publishing details of alleged Georgian plans to launch a military incursion into South Ossetia. On July 15" Last week, Georgia recalled its ambassador in Moscow to protest the Russian overflights, while Russia said they were aimed at preventing Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region. So by the beginning of August, the Russian intelligence services had a fair idea of both Georgia's intentions and its likely tactics, but still no firm evidence of timing. A week of war The Russian 58th Army with its headquarters in Vladikavkaz was on alert and responded reasonably quickly and effectively to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia on August 6 and 7. The use of massive artillery and multiple rocket barrages against the largely open and undefended city of Tskhinvali has been well documented, though little hard evidence has emerged of ether ethnic cleansing or genocide by either side elsewhere in this conflict. However, the violent Russian response left no one in any doubt as to the outcome. Supported by attack aircraft and helicopters from the 4th Air Army, units of the 58th Army of the North Caucasian Military district, including elements of the 20th Guards, 19th and 42nd Motor Rifle Divisions, swept down into South Ossetia. They succeeded in first blocking the Georgian advance north and then quickly pushed them into a humiliating retreat back across the border and eventually out of the town of Gori, the birthplace of Josef Stalin. They were further supported by units of the Russian 76th and 98th Airborne Divisions and the 45th Independent (Spetsnaz Спецназ -) reconnaissance regiment from the Moscow Military District, who reinforced both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Within a matter of days, virtually the entire Georgian command and control system had been severely degraded, along with radar stations, air defense and what remained of the air force at bases such as Alekseevka and Marneuli. Georgian army infantry units including the First Brigade from Gori, supported by the T72-equipped Independent Tank Battalion and probably reinforced by elements of the Fourth Brigade from Vaziani, were quickly routed or ordered to withdraw to save what remained of their fighting capability for the possible defense of Tbilisi. The Second Brigade at Senaki appears not to have put up a fight when a column of Russian troops on a short-lived punitive raid pushed deep into Georgia from Abkhazia on August 11. Russian special forces are also reported to have made limited incursions into the ports of Poti and Batumi without significant interference from the Georgian armed forces. By August 12, large parts of the Georgian armed forces had ceased to operate or lacked any central command and coordination. Georgia had effectively been defeated within six days and without any of its Western allies doing more than resorting to pointless rhetoric. Continuing Russian military action would seem to concentrate on destroying the surviving Georgian military infrastructure around the borders of South Ossetia and perhaps Abkhazia, including the well-defended artillery positions that had allowed the Georgians to heavily shell Tskhinvali. A new cold war? Illusions of any certainty of Western military support have been shattered, and probably for the foreseeable future. The benefits of the increasingly close diplomatic, economic and military relationship with the US, North Atlantic Treaty Organization and European Union may now be called into question by many of the former communist states and some old ties may now be restored as the only likely guarantee of regional security. This indeed could turn out to be a defining moment in the post-Cold War world, with a redrawing of lines of influence and a reassertion of national interests. It is a lesson the Kremlin will sincerely hope has been taken to heart by many of its former allies. The best that can probably be rescued from the Georgia crisis is to make it blatantly clear to Moscow that the West will react more positively in the event of a similar situation developing over, for instance, the largely Russian population of the Crimea. It is a potentially massive problem for the incoming US administration next year, and it is to be hoped that a calm and measured response from Washington may prove to be decisive in preventing the major powers from sliding back into a chillier and increasingly dangerous relationship Richard M Bennett, intelligence and security consultant, AFI Research. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 488119 United States 08/20/2008 10:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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TheChoirmaster
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Kat Mama
User ID: 469859 United States 08/20/2008 11:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Hello, Mr. Berkut ;-) CONDEMNATION without INVESTIGATION is the HIGHEST form of IGNORANCE |
dalak
User ID: 487531 United States 08/20/2008 12:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | very good articles. the truth. and it's amazing with so much of the truth coming out, that the usa isn't called to heel by the world court or something. did you know the ossetians are of iranian descent? looks to me like the israelis are out to get the iranians, anywhere they are. |
The Professor User ID: 385883 United States 08/20/2008 12:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Again with the JOO posts. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 488101RUSSIA IS PLAYING YOU FOOLS! THIS IS 100% RUSSIAN PROPGANDA TO MAKE YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH PUTIN AND START WW3 Falling in love with Putin will not cause a war, a divorce perhaps, but not a war!! But, falling in love with Bush and believing everything his administration tells you, can start a war, I mean another war. Would any defender of Bush’s position please be kind enough to compare Russia and the United States with regards to their involvement in the affairs of other countries? Which country has used its military against other nations the most? Which country has caused the most deaths? Inquiring minds want to know. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 488164 Netherlands 08/20/2008 12:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | August 16, 2008 Quoting: Berkut 479981by Richard M Bennett Asia Times Despite being rather moth-eaten and while still missing a claw or two, the Russian bear is definitely back in business. The conflict with Georgia over its troublesome breakaway provinces has as much to do with nationalistic pride and the Kremlin's wish to reassert itself on the international scene as a determination to protect the predominately Russian citizens of South Ossetia or the determinedly independent-minded Abkhazians. Despite constant assertions by Washington that Russia risks isolation for its military actions of the past week, it is arguable that it is the United States itself that faces the greatest dilemma. To enforce any form of diplomatic or economic "punishment" on the Russians, Washington desperately needs the wholehearted support of the international community and its closest allies in particular. For a variety of reasons, this might not be forthcoming. The former communist countries of Eastern Europe and Central Asia are increasingly and rightly wary of the growing confidence of Russia's leadership and the resurgence of Russian military capability. Western Europe remains significantly reliant on Russian energy supplies and particularly at a time of the increasing instability of international markets. India and China may well be loath to support Washington, particularly as both nations would wish to keep a free hand in dealing with areas such as Kashmir or Tibet. While not directly comparable, both these long-running problems are similar enough in that the protection of the lives and rights of their citizens may require military action at any time. It cannot be seriously denied that Washington itself also desperately needs Russian cooperation in the "war on terror" and to be "on side" over the Middle East and Iran in particular. Even in the newly ebullient and forceful mood prevailing in the Kremlin, Russian leaders must still be painfully aware that their overall military strategic position remains weak. The Kremlin needs Western technology and the willing acceptance of Russia as a major power once again. It remains unlikely that Russia will seriously involve itself in major military adventurism in the near future, nor does it seem likely that the West will seriously attempt to enforce sanctions against the Kremlin. There is simply too much at stake on both sides. A deal will be most likely struck behind closed doors in New York or Paris or Moscow. Empty rhetoric will fill the airwaves and the only long-term loser will be Georgia itself. Put simply, realpolitik or the triumph of reality over ideology will most probably and rightly prevail this time. That said, the conflict has still raised serious issues over international cooperation, understanding and trust. Conflict or the threat of conflict has bedeviled Georgia, its breakaway provinces and its international relations, particularly with Russia, since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Saakashvili - nationalist crusader President Mikheil Saakashvili came to power after November 2003 elections on a wave of nationalism and with the promise of recovering both Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In the past four years, the acquisition of significant numbers of more modern armored vehicles, artillery, multiple rocket launchers, small arms, armed helicopters, reconnaissance drones and much else could not have failed to raise alarm in the breakaway provinces and in the Kremlin. Western intelligence services were also fully aware of military developments and indeed significant numbers of US and Israeli military personnel helped the Georgian special forces in particular in preparing for large-scale counter-insurgency operations ... exactly the type of training required for any serious attempt to suppress the citizens of both Abkhazia and South Ossetia, who were certain to violently resist any Georgian takeover. This current conflict was born out of a crisis that has been simmering since the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO's) action in the former Yugoslavia and has most certainly come to boil since February 2008, when the breakaway province of Kosovo achieved a degree of doubtful international acceptance as an independent state, but only, it is suggested by many observers, after considerable pressure was exerted on its allies by the United States. There is little or no difference between Russia's actions to ensure the right of self-determination of the South Ossetians and the US/NATO support for the Kosovans. It could be argued that Russia may indeed have a valid point in suggesting that it is intensely hypocritical of Washington and London to demand that Georgia should have its sovereignty respected when Serbia, Iraq, Somalia, Panama, Afghanistan and others have had their sovereignty ignored by the US and its allies, sometimes with a degree of genuine justification, but on occasions simply on the flimsiest of evidence that would certainly not have survived the close scrutiny of a court of law. M K Bhadrakumar's masterly summing up of the political background to the conflict (The end of the post-Cold War era Asia Times Online, August 13, 2008) should be studied closely by all who wish to have a grasp of the great game played in the region between Washington and Moscow. Military build-up The lead-up to the military confrontation was however entirely predictable and indeed was flagged quite openly to all who wished to take notice. In 2005, the Georgian army was openly involved in large-scale training for integrated infantry, armored, artillery and air support operations which would appear to have had no other possible purpose but the retaking of the breakaway provinces by military force. The significant buildup of firepower, so tragically demonstrated by the Georgians' wanton destruction of the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, and vastly increased ammunition stocks and logistic support, allowed the Russian GRU (military intelligence) to draw the right conclusions. Saakashvili would use force, only the timing remained uncertain. It is significant that the United States was fully aware of the risk of conflict. The American Foreign Policy Council in Washington in its Russia Reform Monitor reported on July 11: Russia has admitted its fighter jets overflew the breakaway Georgian territory of South Ossetia in a sortie that took place just hours before US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visited Tbilisi with a message of support ... Speaking in the Georgian capital on July 10, Rice said Russia needs "to be part of resolving the problem ... and not contributing to it." However, she also said she had told Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili that "there should not be violence". On July 12: ... Georgian media have been reporting an alleged Russian Defense Ministry plan to storm the Kodori Gorge in the breakaway Georgian republic of Abkhazia, to which Russia plans to respond by publishing details of alleged Georgian plans to launch a military incursion into South Ossetia. On July 15" Last week, Georgia recalled its ambassador in Moscow to protest the Russian overflights, while Russia said they were aimed at preventing Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili from launching a military operation against the separatist South Ossetia region. So by the beginning of August, the Russian intelligence services had a fair idea of both Georgia's intentions and its likely tactics, but still no firm evidence of timing. A week of war The Russian 58th Army with its headquarters in Vladikavkaz was on alert and responded reasonably quickly and effectively to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia on August 6 and 7. The use of massive artillery and multiple rocket barrages against the largely open and undefended city of Tskhinvali has been well documented, though little hard evidence has emerged of ether ethnic cleansing or genocide by either side elsewhere in this conflict. However, the violent Russian response left no one in any doubt as to the outcome. Supported by attack aircraft and helicopters from the 4th Air Army, units of the 58th Army of the North Caucasian Military district, including elements of the 20th Guards, 19th and 42nd Motor Rifle Divisions, swept down into South Ossetia. They succeeded in first blocking the Georgian advance north and then quickly pushed them into a humiliating retreat back across the border and eventually out of the town of Gori, the birthplace of Josef Stalin. They were further supported by units of the Russian 76th and 98th Airborne Divisions and the 45th Independent (Spetsnaz Спецназ -) reconnaissance regiment from the Moscow Military District, who reinforced both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Within a matter of days, virtually the entire Georgian command and control system had been severely degraded, along with radar stations, air defense and what remained of the air force at bases such as Alekseevka and Marneuli. Georgian army infantry units including the First Brigade from Gori, supported by the T72-equipped Independent Tank Battalion and probably reinforced by elements of the Fourth Brigade from Vaziani, were quickly routed or ordered to withdraw to save what remained of their fighting capability for the possible defense of Tbilisi. The Second Brigade at Senaki appears not to have put up a fight when a column of Russian troops on a short-lived punitive raid pushed deep into Georgia from Abkhazia on August 11. Russian special forces are also reported to have made limited incursions into the ports of Poti and Batumi without significant interference from the Georgian armed forces. By August 12, large parts of the Georgian armed forces had ceased to operate or lacked any central command and coordination. Georgia had effectively been defeated within six days and without any of its Western allies doing more than resorting to pointless rhetoric. Continuing Russian military action would seem to concentrate on destroying the surviving Georgian military infrastructure around the borders of South Ossetia and perhaps Abkhazia, including the well-defended artillery positions that had allowed the Georgians to heavily shell Tskhinvali. A new cold war? Illusions of any certainty of Western military support have been shattered, and probably for the foreseeable future. The benefits of the increasingly close diplomatic, economic and military relationship with the US, North Atlantic Treaty Organization and European Union may now be called into question by many of the former communist states and some old ties may now be restored as the only likely guarantee of regional security. This indeed could turn out to be a defining moment in the post-Cold War world, with a redrawing of lines of influence and a reassertion of national interests. It is a lesson the Kremlin will sincerely hope has been taken to heart by many of its former allies. The best that can probably be rescued from the Georgia crisis is to make it blatantly clear to Moscow that the West will react more positively in the event of a similar situation developing over, for instance, the largely Russian population of the Crimea. It is a potentially massive problem for the incoming US administration next year, and it is to be hoped that a calm and measured response from Washington may prove to be decisive in preventing the major powers from sliding back into a chillier and increasingly dangerous relationship Richard M Bennett, intelligence and security consultant, AFI Research. |
Darza
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 488239 United States 08/20/2008 03:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The fact that Georgia's defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation. “We are now in a fight against the great Russia," he said, "and our hope is to receive assistance from the White House, because Georgia cannot survive on its own. “ bye bye joo boy. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 488206 United States 08/20/2008 03:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Excellent assessment from Pat Buchanan. These articles should be pinned. The amount of propaganda in the lame stream media is nauseating, to say the least. Anyone should be able to see right thru bushfraud. Unfortunately, too many are still brainwashed. Quoting: Kat MamaHello, Mr. Berkut ;-) Pat da man. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 479981 United States 08/20/2008 05:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Russia considers nuclear missiles for Syria, Mediterranean, Baltic DEBKAfile Special Report August 17, 2008, 9:18 PM (GMT+02:00) Russia's nuclear-capable Iskandar missile DEBKAfile's military sources report Moscow's planned retaliation for America's missile interceptors in Poland and US-Israeli military aid to Georgia may come in the form of installing Iskandar surface missiles in Syria and its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad. Russian Baltic and Middle East warships, submarines and long-range bombers may be armed with nuclear warheads, according to Sunday newspapers in Europe. In Georgia, Russian troops and tanks advanced to within 30 km of Tbilisi Saturday, Aug. 15. A Russian general said Sunday they had started pulling out after president Dimitry Medvedev signed the ceasefire agreement with Georgia and president George W. Bush called again for an immediate withdrawal. After routing Georgia over the breakaway enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Moscow appears to be eying Poland, the Middle East, and possibly Ukraine, as the main arenas for its reprisals. One plan on the table in Moscow, DEBKAfile's sources report, is the establishment of big Russian military, naval and air bases in Syria and the release of advanced weapons systems withheld until now to Iran (the S-300 air-missile defense system) and Syria (the nuclear-capable 200 km-range Iskandar surface missile). Shortly before the Georgian conflict flared, Moscow promised Washington not to let Iran and Syria have these sophisticated pieces of hardware. The Iskander's cruise attributes make its launch and trajectory extremely hard to detect and intercept. If this missile reaches Syria, Israel will have to revamp its anti-missile defense array and Air Force assault plans for the third time in two years, as it constitutes a threat which transcends all its defensive red lines. Moscow's war planners know this and are therefore considering new sea and air bases in Syria as sites for the Iskander missiles. Russia would thus keep the missiles under its hand and make sure they were not transferred to Iran. At the same time, Syrian crews would be trained in their operation. DEBKAfile's military sources report Syrian president Bashar Assad will be invited to Moscow soon to finalize these plans in detail. Military spokesmen in Moscow said Saturday and Sunday that Russian military planners to started redesigning the nation’s strategic plans for a fitting response to America's decision to install 10 missile interceptors in Poland and the war developments in Georgia. The chairman of the Israeli Knesset foreign affairs and defense committee, Tzahi Hanegbi, spoke out strongly Sunday, Aug. 17, against treasury plans to slash the defense budget. He warned that the military faced grave confrontations in the coming year - possibly on several fronts. |
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TX PATRIOT User ID: 440969 United States 08/20/2008 06:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | August 16, 2008 Quoting: Berkut 479981by Richard M Bennett Asia Times <SNIP> It cannot be seriously denied that Washington itself also desperately needs Russian cooperation in the "war on terror" and to be "on side" over the Middle East and Iran in particular. Considering Russia is an ally with Iran with great financial stakes in their country, it also cannot be seriously denied that Washington itself and the West in general desperately need the unification of the people against said bear for support of the next oil war with Iran (and Pakistan for pipeline control...see IPI pipeline [Iran-Pakistan-India], which the West opposes, of course). Info on IPI - Iran, Pakistan, India, Russia, China [link to www.caucaz.com] Our oil history with Iran: Thread: OIL and IRAN - Are you aware of the history? . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 81801 United States 08/21/2008 01:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Staring Down the Russians By ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI Zbigniew Brzezinski: "The end of the Cold War was supposed to usher in a new age in which the major powers would no longer dictate to their neighbors how to run their affairs. That is why Russia's invasion of Georgia is so tragic and so potentially ominous." Karl Schwarz: Interesting use of the word 'neighbor.' So, in your defective mind, it is OK to keep pushing EU and NATO membership onto all of Russia's immediate 'neighbors' and to continue the provocation of Russia at every opportunity? Apparently, since Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and now Georgia are on the other side of the world, it's just fine to lie, fabricate wars and inflict US genocide on these countries since they are not direct 'neighbors' of the US. Russia invaded Georgia to stop the genocide of Russian citizens. Are you such a lame-brain, Russia-hating jerk that you assume to have rights that Russians are not entitled to? Are you truly that stuck-on-stupid or merely that adept at lying in the face of facts and reality? Zbigniew Brzezinski: "Russia is now on watch: Will it continue to rely on coercion to achieve its imperial aims or is it willing to work within the emerging international system that values cooperation and consensus?" Karl Schwarz: Well, as a matter of simple fact, and I hate to burst your delusional bubble, Zbig, the US IS now on watch! The entire world is looking at the plans and schemes dreamed up by Ivory Tower morons like you - and the world is rejecting those idiotic, greedy, self-serving plans. You really are quite emotional about losing, aren't you? For someone who quote conceived of the Grand Chessboard, you don't seem to have a clue about what the word CHECKMATE means. Russia, China, and the entire Caspian Basin are rejecting your 'geostrategic imperative' vision of the world. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "Moscow's ruthless attempt to suborn, subdue and subordinate this tiny, independent democracy is reminiscent of Stalin's times. The assault onGeorgia is similar to what Stalin's Soviet Union did to Finland in 1939: in both cases, Moscow engaged in an arbitrary, brutal and irresponsible use of force to impose domination over a weaker, democratic neighbor." Karl Schwarz: Damn, you have to go back to 1939 to cite an example? "Ruthless attempt?' Talk about deflecting from the realities of what really happened. I can cite you much more recent US genocide events: Bosnia and Kosovo under the Clinton Administration, 1999; the US invasion of Afghanistan based on pure lies, October 7, 2001; and the very same pathological lies and falsified intelligence used to justify annihilating Iraq, March 2003. The US needs far better minds than yours to stay current with the current day realities of this world, RIGHT NOW. All of you incestuous DC think tank morons lie just as easily as blinking your eyes. Here is another current citation - Georgia, August 2008...which as the world knows was a 'ruthless attempt' by the US, Ukraine, Israel and Georgia to force its collective will on South Ossetia. Russia responded to a blatant act of genocide being inflicted upon the Russian Orthodox Christian population of South Ossetia, all of whom are Russian citizens, I might add. If you have to remain grounded in 1939, why don't you just retire and get the Hell out of the way? If we were to apply your faulty logic, the US definitely had no just cause whatsoever to attack Afghanistan in 2001 or Iraq in 2003. They were not 'neighbors' of the US. Nor is South Ossetia a 'neighbor' of the US. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "The question now is whether the global community can demonstrate to the Kremlin that there are costs for the blatant use of force on behalf of anachronistic imperialist goals." Karl Schwarz: Another interesting DC-speak weasel phrase: 'anachronistic imperialistic goals'. You must be referring to the Cold War Russia versus the Neocon Lunacy Neoconservative Imperialistic Goals, based on your book The Grand Chessboard and now dubbed the fraudulent Global War on Terror. The entire world can clearly see that the only imperialistic nations on this planet TODAY are the UK and US, out lying, trying to steal oil and gas, trying to manipulate and control, and committing war crimes of egregious proportions. "Blatant use of force?" I guess you missed the Shock & Awe on CNN levied upon Afghanistan and Iraq, based on US lies. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "This conflict has been brewing for years. Russia has deliberately instigated the breakup of Georgian territory. Moscow has promoted secessionist activities in several Georgian provinces: Abkhazia, Ajaria and, of course, South Ossetia." Karl Schwarz: All of those districts voted in democratic elections to not be part of Georgia, to remain a part of Russia. What part of those democratic processes are invalid to you (in your delusional, equivocating mind) but this hand picked war criminal puppet Saakashvili was a more legitimate election? Moscow did not promote those votes; the people flat out do not want to be a part of Georgia, now 60% Muslim and stinking to high heaven of Zionist Jew and US control, Kosher and lies does stink you know. Who has been stirring this pot for years is the US. Deny that and I will call you a liar to your face. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "These efforts have intensified since the emergence in Georgia of a democratic, pro-Western government. Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's resentment toward Georgia and its President, the U.S.-educated Mikhiel Saakashvili, has seemingly become a personal obsession." Karl Schwarz: Since 'US education attainment' levels (and grasp of content) have been falling like a rock for the past 40 years, is that where Mikey "The Mick" Saakashvili learned to talk on his cell phone and chew on his tie at the same time? Are his US-educated credentials the basis that you, and other idiots like you, assume this moron is fit to lead a nation? There is no personal obsession to it - war crimes were just committed against the Christian civilian population of South Ossetia. Stop lying and face the music. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "It has sponsored rebellious governments in these territories, armed their forces and even bestowed Russian citizenship on the secessionists." Karl Schwarz: Those people voted almost 20 years ago to not be part of Georgia . Respect their democratic rights or get the Hell out of Dodge. Those people chose of their own free will to hold Russian passports. Respect that or pack your bags. In this bullshit article TIME ran for you, you made it abundantly clear that Georgia is important for your 'geostrategically imperative' pipeline. Russia could have blocked that off completely and did not. Respect the rights of others or get the HELL OUT OF GEORGIA. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "In recent weeks, a series of incidents along the fragile cease-fire lines that cut across Georgian territory helped prompt the escalation of violence, including Georgia's abortive effort to remove the "government" of South Ossetia, a small region with a population of about 70,000 people. That rash action was perhaps unwise, but it is evident from Russia's military response that Moscow was waiting for such an act to provide a pretext for the use of force." Karl Schwarz: You weasels are incredible: "abortive effort" and "perhaps unwise." I bet you and Madeline Albright are good friends. You know her, don't you? You and your kind couldn't care less about 500,000 Iraqi children who perished during the US-enforced genocidal Iraq Sanctions. You and your kind aided and abetted Clinton in the genocide of Serbian Christians by arming the Muslims to kill those Christians and then the 'honorable' USA rides to the rescue of those Christians, dead by guns and bullets provided to the Muslims by America. Your hand-picked, US-educated puppet Saakashvili just perpetrated genocide on over 2,000 people, aided and abetted every step of the way by the Ukraine, Zionist Israel and the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Tell the truth, or shut the hell up. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "Russia's aggression toward Georgia should not be viewed as an isolated incident. The fact is, Putin and his associates in the Kremlin don't accept the post-Soviet realities." Karl Schwarz: And those 'post-Soviet realities' in your feeble, twisted mind proffer that this is a 'unipolar' world, led by the US only and run by idiots like you? No wonder you are orchestrating the Barky for President campaign. The simple fact of the matter is - in these 'post-Soviet realities' - that the US has been a war criminal for years and the two other Superpowers, Russia and China, are no longer going to listen to idiots like you. Let me know when you figure out how to get the smoke back into the jar, idiot. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "Ukraine could well be the next flash point. The Russian leadership has already openly questioned whether it needs to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity. Russian leaders have also remarked that Crimea, a part of Ukraine, should once again be joined to Russia." Karl Schwarz: Well, I hate to burst your bubble again Zbig, but most of Ukraine holds the US, the Zionist New World Order, George Soros and lame-brains like you in total contempt. You are not 'held high' by the vast majority of people in the Ukraine. Russia has offered passports to Ukraine and you will soon learn that most of those people would rather be Russian citizens than live under the boot heels of idiots like Yuchenko and Brzezinski who stay stuck in the past with delusional visions of the future. The Zionist-controlled government of Ukraine was involved in these South Ossetia atrocities. That is a known fact. It has nothing to do with 'territorial integrity.' It has to do with the difference between the truth and idiot plans like yours based on pure, unadulterated lies in preposterous proportions. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "The stakes are high. Ultimately, the independence of the post-Soviet states is at risk. Russia seems committed to the notion that there should be some sort of supranational entity, governed from the Kremlin, that would oversee much of the former Soviet territories. This attitude reflects in part the intense nationalistic mood that now permeates Russia's political élite." Karl Schwarz: Those stakes are only 'high' for the US, Zbig. This is no longer a unipolar world, and it never will be again. You need to get a new 'gig'. Your worn out "hate Russia" routine is out of touch with reality. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "For the West, especially the U.S., the conflict between Russia and Georgia poses both moral and geostrategic challenges. The moral dimension is self-evident: a small country that gained its independence only recently, after almost two centuries of Russian domination, deserves international support that goes beyond simple declarations of sympathy." Karl Schwarz: "Moral?" You consider the genocide of the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan and now South Ossetia by the US and its puppets - to be on some moral high ground for the US? What an idiot you are. "Geostrategic challenges?" You just don't get it, man. Your Chessboard 'geostrategic imperative' game is over. We lost thanks to short-sighted idiots like you who have no valid view of the future. "Declarations of sympathy" for poor little war criminal Georgia? What about the 2,000 dead South Ossetia Christians killed by the US puppet Saakashvili? Have sympathy for them or get the Hell out of the US political process. Karl Schwarz: Russia just responded in a very clear and very unambiguous manner to US AGGRESSION and IMPERIALISM. It amazes me how you DC weasels always try to turn things around backwards. Maybe you have not noticed, but the entire World is condemning US behavior. Maybe if you were not a rich elitist snob you would better understand the damage your not-at-all-brilliant ideas have caused America. You do not have to worry about another Cold War, Zbig. You idiots have gone so far past the norms of acceptable behaviour the threat of war will be a VERY HOT WAR thanks to idiots like you pushing stupid, unattainable agendas. Zbigniew Brzezinski: "The Georgian crisis is a critical test for Russia. If Putin sticks to his guns and subordinates Georgia and removes its freely elected President - something Putin's Foreign Minister has explicitly called for - it is only a question of time before Moscow turns up the heat on Ukraine and the other independent but vulnerable post-Soviet states. The West has to respond carefully but with a moral and strategic focus. Its objective has to be a democratic Russia that is a constructive participant in a global system based on respect for sovereignty, law and democracy. But that objective can be achieved only if the world makes clear to Moscow that a stridently nationalistic Russia will not succeed in any effort to create a new empire in our postimperial age." Karl Schwarz: You're a WEASEL, LIAR and an IDIOT. IT'S THE POLICIES, STUPID. What you are saying in that paragraph, in typical DC-speak equivocation, is you are proposing a FORCED 'regime change' in Moscow. Nothing personal, IDIOT, but I, as a Conservative American, think the wisest regime change needed on this planet is a complete house cleaning in Washington, DC to get rid of 'geostrategic imperative' shitheads like you. You know what, Zbig? I am not a Polish-born American like you, I am an American-born American. It occurs to me that your National Security ideas for the United States have proven to be such a colossal failure, I am now compelled to ask, as an American-born American, just exactly who's side are you on? You are a moron, and your ideas have seriously jeopardized the National Security of the United States of America. "Postimperial age?" Evidently, you have not a clue about the ramifications of your big, fancy words...especially when the US is clearly engaged in 'Post-Soviet US Imperialism' all over the world, right now. ----- At 11:45 am CET, 5:45 am Eastern, the US and Poland have just signed the Bush 'Defensive' Missile Shield deal in Warsaw. Of course, after the Little Black Poodle left the Emergency NATO Georgia Crisis meeting in Brussels, she scurried right over to Warsaw to sign off on the monumentally idiotic BushCo 'defensive' missile scam. Just yesterday, in fact, Poland admitted that the system IS to be aimed at Russia, that Poland is not concerned about Iranian missiles at all. Among Russia's responses will be the refueling of their strategic nuclear bombers in Cuba, the retargeting of Russian nuclear weapons systems toward the EU, and the installation of Russian nukes in the Mediterranean and Syria, among other things. The Poodle's signature has all but guaranteed that the Western world is now standing at the edge of the WWIII abyss. Karl |