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The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 03:32 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
ps

as one with native blood, i know what ye claim as native response is bullshit. witches were not tolerated, but what a native calls a healer ye call a witch. ye are full of biblical shit.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 03:42 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You need to have your mouth washed out with soap. Your response is weak in specifics and strong with gutter mouth archaisms and hatred. You are a rather pathetic excuse for a witch a pagan or even a 15 year old on a skateboard. The pagans of my aquaintance have a little more "on the ball" as it were.

Not only do you know nothing about the Bible ; you apparently know nothing about the spirit world either. I think you're steamed because i have fingered an area of abysmal ignorance on your part. That's just too bad. Your religion causes mental and physical suffering and you need to be held accountable.


And btw,your precipitate attack of gutter mouth is a sign that you too have some foul mouthed discarnates around you.You better get some help.
Nightshade 09  (OP)

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08/28/2008 03:48 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Anthropologically Speaking EVERY culture has 'witchcraft' in it at one level or another.

Fact In many hunter gather societies a person that exhibited any sort of 'supernatural' abilities were classified as 'witches' or 'sorcerers'.

Witches and Sorcerers were often distanced from the Hunter Gather society. Distanced in that the person was viewed as sacred or better put a Supernatural being in and of themselves. Since the Supernatural, Spiritual World/Astral Realm was Unknown and because of it frightening. The Supernatural in Hunter/Gather Societies were "Taboo." Not to be touched without great great care.

There fore the Witch/Sorcerers became "Taboo" within those societies. Not Forbbiden! Yet taken with great great care and responsablity.

The Witches, Sorcerers living off by themselves on the outskirts of the village became the Tribal Holy Person, Shaman, Priest or Priestess.


They were NOT dispised in the Hunter Gather Societies and later Cultures. But they were keept distent from the main of that society because the Witch and Sorcerers dealt with the MOST FRIGHTING OF REALMS.

The Unknown..


It was ONLY Christianty that slaughtered their Witches.






The christians are NOt the only ones to have an adversion to witchcraft. The Romans killed witches. The Native American Indians killed witches and it is a fact that in 19th century a group went to Salem,MA to THANK the citizens of salem for their elimination of witches. So-for openers-your focus on christian opposition exclusively is selective and imbalanced.




Why are witches so opposed and vilified THROUGHOUT the ages ? There IS a good reason. Witchcraft is about empowerment and there is only 2 paths to empowerment,1) The Holy Spirit or 2) spirit(s) plural. Traffic with the latter is condemned in the Bible and for good reason.



Witchcraft is just anothjer face of Shamanism which is a global phenomenon of traffic with and worse,POSSESSION by,evil spirits. Mere proximity to these malevolent things bring sickness and mental illness; as any Haitian practitioner can tell you.American Indians call this "ghost sickness". In other cultures,shamans are feared and often loathed by the populace. In Siberian shamanism it is common for one to commit suicide if one suspects he is "chosen" by the spirits to be a shaman. They know that dissociation and every horror is the lot of the shaman.



In Brittany,the "witchcraft triangle" of the world,witches are INVOLUNTARY witches; people oppressed and possessed by discarnates. This is true in modern Wicca. Many wiccans run afoul of the spirits they initially think they are "communing" with in their ceremonial magic and divination. "Ex-Witch" an online ministry has testimonies of wiccans who have had terrible experiences and were delivered and converted to Christ through their escape from a veritable hell-on-earth.


I have an outreach ministry and personally know three different ex-wiccans,all of whom had oppression/possesion dynamics which led to deliverance in Christ and a hasty departure from their wiccan community which was helpless to drive out the evil discarnates that the indiscriminate wiccan practices had opened a door to,albeit unwittingly.


Divination,a common wiccan practice,can open a door that the wiccans cannot shut because they have exiled themselves from Christ. I was told by Ed Warren,a demonologist,that the majority of his possession cases began with divinatory practice. The famous 1949 case,upon which the movie "The Exorcist" was based,began with divination.



The idea that the opposition to witchcraft has to do with gender discrimination or projected scapegoating is a RED HERRING. The fact of the matter is,people in every generation,Christian and Non -Christian, have recognized the SPIRITUAL TOXICITY of Wicca and pagan shamanistic practices throughout the ages. "White magic" or "Black magic". "Left Hand" or "Right hand" path...it makes no difference. Wicca is a DISTINCT PREFERENCE for the path of traffic with spirit(s) over the path of a baptism by the Holy Spirit of God. It is,in its very essence,IDOLATRY therefore and a blasphemy against God.




Now some wiccans are on a journey,"passing through" wicca on a path to Christ. Many are good people,though seriously and dangerously misled. But in my experience,the ones who truly show "powers" that are preternatural and stay with wicca and become loud-mouthed advocates and anti_Christians; are truly a horse of a different color. They are leading many,often younger,pagans down a dark path and they will have to answer to God for being wolves in shepherd's clothing. The worst judgement I have seen upon these is when they are truly given over to the powers they are in bondage to. I am watching this 'Picture of Dorian Gray" dissolution take place in one wiccan leader of my acquaintance. Very tragic indeed. And again,this is the common path for a shaman. When russian shrinks did a survey of native shamnans back in the 1920's they found they ALL had serious clinical signs of mental illness-the worst curse of all.




I have encountered witchcraft spirits in a girl we are working to deliver. They cause every manner of poltergeist activity,undiagnosable illness,telepathic assault and a host of other things. Their malevolence is extraordinary and they retaliate on every one who has tried to help this woman. but they have to submit to christ jesus every time, i have personally heard these things screaming and howling through her as they were forced to leave. She comes from a Native American shamanistic family who were neck deep in magic practices for generations. She has severe dissociative disorder and bizarre health problems from her exposure to this practice. her house is haunted and she is in a veritable hell.



So you see,it's not just your tacit opposition to Christ Jesus that we Christians don't like about Wicca; it is your unclean spiritual "friends" from hell that we don't like. I have seen their work close up and felt the wrath of their bastardly demon hearts. THESE are what you pagans and wiccans,often unwittingly,welcome into your "circle". i have seen the filthy,toxic fallout they bring to wiccans individually and collectively. So please...don't try to pretend that we Christians are simply being parochial. The TOXIC WASTE of your religion is a threat to every good person. Many non-Christian societies came to the same conclusion.




When the prophecy of Joel is fulfilled and the endtime Spirit of renewal is poured out in a Second Pentecost; i believe many wiccans will have the hideous face of those whom they think are "protecting" guides and spirits revealed for what they truly are...escapees from the spiritual lunatic asylum we know as the kingdom of hell. I expect Ex_Witch and similar ministries will overflow with testimonies of deliverance from bad spirits and true spiritual conversion in Christ. Many of the wiccans of my personal acquiantance are presently like Cornelius in the Book of Acts,good pagans who eventually find their way to Jesus. The other side of the coin,though,is that I expect others to be given over to perfect possession or bondage to these alien things. That will be a hideous thing.




Anyway OP, i found your "read" of what the real issue between Christian and Wiccan to be destructively superficial.Pardon me for saying so.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING, 394628

"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 03:52 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You need to have your mouth washed out with soap. Your response is weak in specifics and strong with gutter mouth archaisms and hatred. You are a rather pathetic excuse for a witch a pagan or even a 15 year old on a skateboard. The pagans of my aquaintance have a little more "on the ball" as it were.

Not only do you know nothing about the Bible ; you apparently know nothing about the spirit world either. I think you're steamed because i have fingered an area of abysmal ignorance on your part. That's just too bad. Your religion causes mental and physical suffering and you need to be held accountable.


And btw,your precipitate attack of gutter mouth is a sign that you too have some foul mouthed discarnates around you.You better get some help.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

don't listen either do ye? i have never claimed wiccan, witch or shaman - and i'm not now. know nothing about the bible? i've read it cover to cover many times. most christians i know haven't even read it once. they gotta be told what it says by assholes like ye. and as for foul mouthed... fuck ye. there's a time and place for everything and assholes like ye deserve to be told to fuck off. what i do and don't know is between the creator and i and ye are NOT even remotely able to see that. my "religion" causes no suffering, unlike yers which has killed millions. and i am held accountable. by my own conscience and the creator. so one more time - fuck ye and the horse ye rode in on. ye got in my face with judgement and then whined when i didn't roll over for ye. take it like a honest person fool. not that i really expect ye to. ye have too much invested in judging all others as lacking. makes up for yer own shortfalls i suspect.

if ye want courteous discussion from me ye can have it only if ye come off yer high horse and treat me with courtesy. condemning me to the lowest depths of hell is guaranteed to get a "fuck ye" response from me. ye are just a person with no greater claim to the creators ear than anyone else. so unless ye want to extend courtesy ye don't get it. fuck ye.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 04:00 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You are lying . Pure and simple, It is a historical fact that people as diverse as the Romans and the Native Americans EXECUTED witches. And it is a historical fact that shamans/witches are feared and loathed because of the illicit power evil spirits give them to wield.


All the 'magic' in the world will not erase these facts. You're trying to clean up something that is unclean and infectious. I am not going to run and get a stack of books and footnote what i am saying because you have already made up your mind. But this idea that witchcraft is this benign force is ludicrous. I evangelize an area with one of the most heavily populated areas of pagan,wiccan and satanist populations in the country. i know many wiccans,pagans and ex-wiccans. I have worked in deliverance and demonological studies and parapsychology. And I have seen and personally experienced the actions of these discarnates firsthand. don't try to tell me about the 'sacred space' these things occupy. They destroy lives. Destroy people's health and mental state. And YOUR RELIGION opens the door to these things...big time.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 04:00 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You are lying . Pure and simple, It is a historical fact that people as diverse as the Romans and the Native Americans EXECUTED witches. And it is a historical fact that shamans/witches are feared and loathed because of the illicit power evil spirits give them to wield.


All the 'magic' in the world will not erase these facts. You're trying to clean up something that is unclean and infectious. I am not going to run and get a stack of books and footnote what i am saying because you have already made up your mind. But this idea that witchcraft is this benign force is ludicrous. I evangelize an area with one of the most heavily populated areas of pagan,wiccan and satanist populations in the country. i know many wiccans,pagans and ex-wiccans. I have worked in deliverance and demonological studies and parapsychology. And I have seen and personally experienced the actions of these discarnates firsthand. don't try to tell me about the 'sacred space' these things occupy. They destroy lives. Destroy people's health and mental state. And YOUR RELIGION opens the door to these things...big time.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 04:06 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
ROSS. LISTEN UP. Your 'diction" betrays that you probably DO have spirits. They don't like me fingering their work. That's too bad. VADE RETRO SATANA. VICIT LEO DE TRIBU JUDAH.


If YOU are a product of the "OLD WAYS",well then you are exhibit A ; making my point about the foul fruits of trafficking with discarnates. Your vulgarity doesn't make any points with me; in fact, I find your parlance revolting.



Where's that soap ?
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:08 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You are lying . Pure and simple, It is a historical fact that people as diverse as the Romans and the Native Americans EXECUTED witches. And it is a historical fact that shamans/witches are feared and loathed because of the illicit power evil spirits give them to wield.


All the 'magic' in the world will not erase these facts. You're trying to clean up something that is unclean and infectious. I am not going to run and get a stack of books and footnote what i am saying because you have already made up your mind. But this idea that witchcraft is this benign force is ludicrous. I evangelize an area with one of the most heavily populated areas of pagan,wiccan and satanist populations in the country. i know many wiccans,pagans and ex-wiccans. I have worked in deliverance and demonological studies and parapsychology. And I have seen and personally experienced the actions of these discarnates firsthand. don't try to tell me about the 'sacred space' these things occupy. They destroy lives. Destroy people's health and mental state. And YOUR RELIGION opens the door to these things...big time.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

i never lie. i do on occasion tell a tale to entertain, but never lie. i did not say witches weren't executed. ye may have read that into it, but it was not my intention. what i said was that yer definition of witch and a native definition weren't going to be the same. ye and yer ilk already proved that *any* religion other than what ye have is declared witchcraft and of the devil.

i'm not trying to clean up anything. any person can look at things and make up their own minds - except in yer world. and i have not said what i believe is a religion. ye did. what i *have* said is fuck ye. and yer judgement that tries to rule by fear and intimidation. ye chose to post on this thread hoping to run rough shod over anyone different than ye and it ain't working. fuck ye. don't like my language? want courtesy? i will give ye just as much courtesy as ye give me. not one iota more. ye are the follower of one who advocates turning the other cheek, are ye not? then why can ye not follow yer own teachings? because ye are a hypocrite and bigot. fuck ye again.

oh, and did i mention? fuck ye.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:09 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
No such thing as a militant witch, dumbass. Real Witchcraft is Wicca, and that is a religion of acceptance, understanding, and peace. And yes they worship God.

Unlike so many socially accepted religions of today.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 248132

there are so many differing types of witchcraft, and wicca is not the only 'real' one...
and dumbass is such a wonderfully peaceful accepting and understanding word to use...
tsk tsk

i think they might have said it that way on purpose...
mind games in this forum everywhere
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:10 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Where's that soap ?
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

ye want to wash my mouth out with soap? bring it on christard. i'm not a child to sit quietly while ye instill yer fear and tortures. if ye ain't willing to live with the results don't start the fight, because ye won't like the results of this one... fuck ye.
Nightshade 09  (OP)

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08/28/2008 04:15 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Roman and Greek Temples had a priest/priestess hood known as Oracles. These were men and women that went in to hystical trance dance and while in dance were taken over by Spirits of the Other Realms.

In their Trance common Greek and Roman men and women would ask Spirit possessing the Oracle to divine their future or divine the future of their countries actions. (such as an out come of a war action).

Oracles were HIGHLY respected in Greek and Roman Culture.

Just one example of how Witchcraft and Magic was ACCEPTED in Ancient Cultures.

Shamans today in Native American Culture are considered "witches." Just try to harm a Shaman and see how the tribes react! :)


I don't know were your getting your information. But clearly its BIASED and not based on antropological facts.


Nightshade 09

Cultural Anthropology Masters Degree holder.
My field of study was Magical, Spiritual and Ritual Beliefs and Origins.




You are lying . Pure and simple, It is a historical fact that people as diverse as the Romans and the Native Americans EXECUTED witches. And it is a historical fact that shamans/witches are feared and loathed because of the illicit power evil spirits give them to wield.


All the 'magic' in the world will not erase these facts. You're trying to clean up something that is unclean and infectious. I am not going to run and get a stack of books and footnote what i am saying because you have already made up your mind. But this idea that witchcraft is this benign force is ludicrous. I evangelize an area with one of the most heavily populated areas of pagan,wiccan and satanist populations in the country. i know many wiccans,pagans and ex-wiccans. I have worked in deliverance and demonological studies and parapsychology. And I have seen and personally experienced the actions of these discarnates firsthand. don't try to tell me about the 'sacred space' these things occupy. They destroy lives. Destroy people's health and mental state. And YOUR RELIGION opens the door to these things...big time.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

"In a time of deceit telling the truth is revolutionary act." - George Orwell
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 04:17 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
ROSS-Well. No History,or spirituality,or demonology,or anthropology or any other 'ology'- Just the f-word.Over and over again. This is very sick. I want to talk to the OP. At least his vocabulary is over the 1 word limit.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:18 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Shamans today in Native American Culture are considered "witches." Just try to harm a Shaman and see how the tribes react! :)
 Quoting: Nightshade 09

i can only speak for the culture i am familiar with. witches are different from shaman or person of medicine in my cultural reference. witches sought to damage the people and inflict evil, they were historically executed. medicine people were valued as elders. just a side note from where i see.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:19 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
ROSS-Well. No History,or spirituality,or demonology,or anthropology or any other 'ology'- Just the f-word.Over and over again. This is very sick. I want to talk to the OP. At least his vocabulary is over the 1 word limit.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

so talk to him. i have no problem with that. but it was me ye chose to attack. now ye are crying about the response to that attack? don't attack then stupid. duh.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 04:27 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
"ROMAN authorities...were generally intolerant of ALL varieties of sorcery...the image of the sorcerer in Classical literature is almost UNIFORMLY DARK...Graeco-Roman thought also began the close linking of sorcery and demonology that became the dominant characteristic of European witchcraft."



That's Professor Jeffrey Burton Russel. there was a REASON for this dark view, as I have said. And this PREDATES Christian influence.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 04:42 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
"ROMAN authorities...were generally intolerant of ALL varieties of sorcery...the image of the sorcerer in Classical literature is almost UNIFORMLY DARK...Graeco-Roman thought also began the close linking of sorcery and demonology that became the dominant characteristic of European witchcraft."



That's Professor Jeffrey Burton Russel. there was a REASON for this dark view, as I have said. And this PREDATES Christian influence.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

well, finally not an attack on me. this i can respond to with a bit of courtesy. as ye say, the image of the sorcerer in classical literature is almost UNIFORMLY DARK. happens i agree with ye on this point. and it happens that i believe christianity merely inherited the viewpoint. as they inherited so many things from the roman empire. it is just my opinion, but i believe these things that were inherited from the roman empire (and the greeks before that) were beliefs that would aid the powers that were in charge. beliefs that would give them more control. all wrapped up in religious talk.

the sorcerer outside of classical literature, on the other hand, is not uniformly dark. classical literature is the work of the dominant powers in the world at that time. cultures that were not intent on domination viewed things differently.

i find it a bit humorous that a christian would use the beliefs to the roman empire to help justify their christian thoughts. the roman gods were most definitely pagan and christianity under the romans was modified to suit the roman culture with all its pagan beliefs. so it strikes me as ironic and humorous to hear this defense.

all of the above is merely my opinion - none of which is based on scholarly research by me. yer mileage may vary. add a bit of money to that and ye can buy a cup of coffee...
VAN HELSING
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Let's listen to DR PIERS VITEBSKY speaking about Mongolian shamans: In his general remarks he states that the shaman's work entails " CONSTANT RISK OF INSANITY". Then of the mongolian shamnas specifically, he writes,


His wife and children must therefore
suffer POOR HEALTH and early death as
the shaman unintentionally sucks the life
out of those with whom he lives.


This is from native testimony. No "sacred space" here. But what we DO have is the mental and physical illness that is so common to cases in demonology and which cases come from DIVINATION OR SPIRIT COMMUNICATION OR CHANNELING.

I have EXPERIENCED this vampirism and went to the hospital with severe electrolyte disorder working exorcism in a haunted house. And the priests who tried to exorcise annaliese michel,in the famous case the movie "Emily Rose"
was based on, had blood tests that determined the same strange disappearance of vital electrolytes.

DON'T tell me about the 'sacredness' of these beings. they're evil. And the indiscriminate opening of the door through the goofball ceremonies that pass for "Wicca" in America are IRRESPONSIBLE.



The same case i referred to the girl's mother and grandmother died early deaths. She is isolated,not because she has entered a magic" sacred space' wher the uninitiated are wrongly "scared'; but because the vile spirits from her native American shamanistic family( her grandfather was the lodestone of this "old way' this fountain of "wisdom") have driven her to severe dissociative disorder and mpd and made her sick almost to death.



she is no shaman.like she thinks she is btw,in her dementia. She suffers the fruits of "magic". Sickness. mental illness. isolation.



so- I KNOW Dr. Vitebsky got the straight dope from the Mongolians he worked with.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
van hesling, yer claiming an authority i do not recognize. wait, let me be a bit clearer on that point. ye are claiming as authority the specific writings of a specific person. concerning specific incidents. i have no personal knowledge of the credibility of that person therefore i give it no weight. if ye wish to impress me it must come from ye. and just because ye say it is so does not hold much water with me. why should i believe a word ye say? being a christian holds no water either. the biggest liars i have known have all been christian. maybe they were poor examples, but they were the ones i saw.

so... instead of making broad claims with no authority except that ye say so try providing evidence to back up yer claims. if ye want to give instances please provide enough detail to make an informed opinion on. please change names to protect the innocent however...
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
DON'T tell me about the 'sacredness' of these beings. they're evil. And the indiscriminate opening of the door through the goofball ceremonies that pass for "Wicca" in America are IRRESPONSIBLE.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

btw, i've told ye nothing about sacredness. or wicca. or much of anything else for that matter. ye've read into my responses that which was not there.
OneAngryMom

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08/28/2008 04:57 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
You are lying . Pure and simple, It is a historical fact that people as diverse as the Romans and the Native Americans EXECUTED witches. And it is a historical fact that shamans/witches are feared and loathed because of the illicit power evil spirits give them to wield.


All the 'magic' in the world will not erase these facts. You're trying to clean up something that is unclean and infectious. I am not going to run and get a stack of books and footnote what i am saying because you have already made up your mind. But this idea that witchcraft is this benign force is ludicrous. I evangelize an area with one of the most heavily populated areas of pagan,wiccan and satanist populations in the country. i know many wiccans,pagans and ex-wiccans. I have worked in deliverance and demonological studies and parapsychology. And I have seen and personally experienced the actions of these discarnates firsthand. don't try to tell me about the 'sacred space' these things occupy. They destroy lives. Destroy people's health and mental state. And YOUR RELIGION opens the door to these things...big time.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628


wow

you really believe the stuff you're saying?

THAT'S FRIGHTENING!

I think you've been brainwashed....but that's just my humble opinion. Sounds to me like you don't have a real clue what you're talking about and have confused several antiquated ideas of images all together into a lump that serves your evangelical purposes.......

Is there a difference between a Baptist and a Pentecostal? Is there a difference between a Catholic and a Protestant?

YOU BET THERE IS....

so settle the semantics issues...because what you're calling WITCH is not what those who call themselves WITCH, mean...you are projecting...and it's kind of sickening to watch your self righteousness look very dark, green, and nasty!
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 05:11 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Is there "white" magic ? NO. The Lamas of tibet persecuted the witches or shamans and called it the "BLACK FAITH". Can't blame the Christians for that either. Witchcraft was reviled the world over,for the reasons i have stated.


The Mongolian shamans,and all "healers' outside of the intervention of Christ,btw, heal by cutting a deal with disease bearing spirits. Sereptie, a Nganasani or tavgi Samoyed of siberia is a 'healer'. but not by the Holy Spirit: He says, flat out,



'...for a man's illness, I make ceremonies
to the evil spirits..."

(cf. Shamanic Voices by joan halifax Phd.)



Pretty straightforward. Thing is, REAL shamans doing real ceremonial magic are under no illusions about who it is they are dealing with. Only superficial Western witches,denizens of metaphysical bookstores , weave this childish myth of the 'helping spirits" and friendly "guides" much like the Victorians who put ballet outfits and gossamer wings on beings that for millennia going back to Sumeria were known universally as biters and abductors of mind and health,with bad attitudes.




I could adduce reams of testimony in this vein,but this is only a blog spot after all. but i am not suggesting, I am TELLING you that the religion you are trying to paint in bright,Ronald McDonald colors is as BLACK as can be and opens doors on a regular basis that ought not to be opened,especially to young people. Period. i know this by diligent study and by personal experience in the field.



You can F-bomb me all you want but facts are facts. Your picture of Wicca and paganism as benign loving religions is FALSE. It is traffic with evil discarnates. Now, as i have stated,I don't hate the wiccan PEOPLE..no way. I am among them in my work. I want to LIBERATE them from a religious system that victimizes many of them in horrible ways. But i DO HATE the WICCAN rELIGION in all its phony permutations in paganism,neo-paganism ...what have you; because I know who the beings are running the show. As a Christian, I am their sworn enemy and they know it.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:18 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
When it comes to this subject, you have people who just make it up as they go along. Perhaps the Romans didn't like them, but it depends on whether it was the Republic or the Empire. Shamans, witches, sorcerers access power that a rigid top-down power structure either tries to co-opt or persecute. Imagine how a modern shaman would react to officialdom. Try Castaneda's mentor - Don Juan. The fact that Romans didn't like them only means that they couldn't be controlled.

However, there have always been problems with black magik, as opposed to white magik. Black magicians can scare the hell out of common folk. White magicians may be healers or seers and always have knowledge that can be put to positive use. Individuals react different ways when exposed to deep or forbidden knowledge. Some use it positively others negatively. And that's not terribly difficult to figure out.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:21 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
I could adduce reams of testimony in this vein,but this is only a blog spot after all. but i am not suggesting, I am TELLING you that the religion you are trying to paint in bright,Ronald McDonald colors is as BLACK as can be and opens doors on a regular basis that ought not to be opened,especially to young people. Period. i know this by diligent study and by personal experience in the field.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

see, that's a big part of the problem. yer TELLING us. not verification of anything. just ye TELLING. and ye ain't our daddy.
You can F-bomb me all you want but facts are facts. Your picture of Wicca and paganism as benign loving religions is FALSE. It is traffic with evil discarnates. Now, as i have stated,I don't hate the wiccan PEOPLE..no way. I am among them in my work. I want to LIBERATE them from a religious system that victimizes many of them in horrible ways. But i DO HATE the WICCAN rELIGION in all its phony permutations in paganism,neo-paganism ...what have you; because I know who the beings are running the show. As a Christian, I am their sworn enemy and they know it.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

yep. facts are facts. ye've claimed things as fact. i challenge yer claim. prove what ye say. saying it don't mean nothing to me. and ye keep on keeping on. calling an opinion a fact. facts can be proven. opinions are just that. give us evidence or quit yammering. yer sounding like a broken recording and a evil filled one at that. (just my opinion. i'm not calling it a fact.)
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:27 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
The only shamans I know use animal spirits as helpers, not daevas or elementals. There is serious power out there, and you have to be careful with it. None that I know would ever use any spirit that they don't fully understand or trust, and animals are understandable. You can always find malicious entities and you can make deals with them, but it is always destructive because that entity always knows more than you do and can cause problems in ways you might never imagine.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:33 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
I get quite a laugh out of churchianity forbidding witchcraft while all the Catholic churches have SAINT RELICS in their proud possession. Do they think that nobody notices that they are pulling the "Do as I say, not as I do" scam? "Grab those relics from the dead saint and then we'll go out and burn some pagans, so THEY won't practice any more witchcraft."

Yep, I grew up Catholic - 12 years of catholic school. But there was a problem. I paid attention and I also asked questions, both of which are unexpected and difficult to control.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 05:36 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Your response to documentation; FEEBLE


Your "defence'of your Pagan "religion" if we can call it that : FAIL



I have to go now and look for signs of intelligent life on other threads. It's been really charming and edifying to be exposed to your love and learning...not. You're all a credit to the 'old ways'...not. I know satanists who display more humane and spiritually intelligent character.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:40 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Awww, he took his toys and left. Proof by repeated strenuous assertion didn't seem to work.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:41 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Your response to documentation; FEEBLE
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

because i ask for proof? roflmao
Your "defence'of your Pagan "religion" if we can call it that : FAIL
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

how many times do i gotta say it? i never claimed to have a "religion" that i felt the need to defend. the only time i defended anything was when ye attacked me personally. do ye not read yer own postings?
I have to go now and look for signs of intelligent life on other threads. It's been really charming and edifying to be exposed to your love and learning...not. You're all a credit to the 'old ways'...not. I know satanists who display more humane and spiritually intelligent character.
 Quoting: VAN HELSING 394628

if ye do find intelligent life i've no doubt ye won't know ye found it. intelligence seems to be the last requirement for yer ravings. good luck though. i truly am sorry ye are so frightened by folks that mean ye no harm.
VAN HELSING
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08/28/2008 05:54 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
Frightened ? No. Revolted by your crudity,lack of thought and false religion. You apparently were frightened into silence though by my clear arguments and facts because you never engaged a single point...just called names. That is childish and infantile. I am going on a thread with grown ups on it. Now go back to your Dungeons and Dragons game.
Anonymous Coward
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08/28/2008 05:56 PM
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Re: The Official Militant Witch, Wiccan and Pagan Pride Thread; We’re Among You, We’re Here, We’re Not Going Anywhere. Get Used To IT!!
No such thing as a militant witch, dumbass. Real Witchcraft is Wicca, and that is a religion of acceptance, understanding, and peace. And yes they worship God.

Unlike so many socially accepted religions of today.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 248132


Pure horse shit. Witchcraft has been in practice long before the sperm that fertilized the ovum that became Gerald Gardner.





GLP