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UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.

 
FreeFlow
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08/30/2008 01:12 PM
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UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
EDIT II:

Here's the article in German so far:
[link to www.spiegel.de]

Grave accusations against Georgia are coming from OSCE observers!
Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.

Massive misconducts came from the Georgians, they attacked the solely civilian S Ossetian capital at deep night BEFORE the Russians got their tanks through the tunnel between N and S Ossetia ...

*********************************************
Spiegel: OSCE observers fault Georgians in conflict


Hamburg - European observers have faulted Georgia in this month's Caucasus conflict, saying it made elaborate plans to seize South Ossetia, according to the German news magazine Der Spiegel on Saturday. In a report to appear in its Monday edition, it said officials of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) had said acts by the Georgian government had contributed to the outbreak of the crisis with Russia.

Spiegel said OSCE military observers in the Caucasus had described preparations by Georgia to move into South Ossetia.

The onslaught had begun before Russian armoured vehicles entered a southbound tunnel under the Caucasus Mountains to South Ossetia.

It said the OSCE report also described suspected war crimes by the Georgians, including the Georgians ordering attacks on sleeping South Ossetian civilians.

[link to www.earthtimes.org]



The following is the half-way edited online translation of an excerpt from an Austrian news article:

Georgian war crimes?
Massive critics on Tiflis according to a report of the German news magazine "Der Spiegel" from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE):
A "wrongdoing" of the Georgian government has contributed to the outbreak of the Caucasus crisis. In the reports from OSCE observers there is even the speak of possible Georgian war crimes, the Georgian command has ordered to attack S Ossetia at deep night.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 01:16 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
not surprised. i can't believe how many rednecks here are still insisting it was all russias fault and that russia just wanted to annex ossetia, and just stupid stuff. i have never seen a more blantant display of ugly american since this thing.
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 01:21 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
That will turn the tides if even DerSpiegel reports about this.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 01:23 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
not surprised. i can't believe how many rednecks here are still insisting it was all russias fault and that russia just wanted to annex ossetia, and just stupid stuff. i have never seen a more blantant display of ugly american since this thing.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 492804

Yes poopaganda fully revved up ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
G. House

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08/30/2008 01:25 PM

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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
That will turn the tides if even DerSpiegel reports about this.
 Quoting: FreeFlow


Turn what tides?

This was obviously a Russian set-up. They've been working on this for years.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 01:27 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
That will turn the tides if even DerSpiegel reports about this.


Turn what tides?

This was obviously a Russian set-up. They've been working on this for years.
 Quoting: G. House



crazyjak
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08/30/2008 01:28 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Good find OP!
Maybe the truth will come out.
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.~Eleanor Roosevelt

~V~
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 01:33 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
That will turn the tides if even DerSpiegel reports about this.


Turn what tides?

This was obviously a Russian set-up. They've been working on this for years.
 Quoting: G. House

Keep on fantasizing, G. House. We love your fairy tales.
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 01:37 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Good find OP!
Maybe the truth will come out.
 Quoting: ShowMe State of Mind

I notice that the EU mass media who were preaching to the choir against Russia suddenly fairly report these OSCE assessments and this is a good development.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 01:39 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Doesn't matter .Still doesn't give the ruskies the right for full scale invasion. Two wrongs don't make a right.
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 01:42 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
You mean a full scale invasion like that of USrael in Iraq?

Calling the Georgian case a full scale invasion only proves how far low you mega-phoney proportion twisters have come ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 01:53 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Why do you think the US puppet in charge was seen eating his tie and now has US blessing for escape in case of coup? I just hope Russia has moved quick enough to secure hard irrefutable evidence of US/Israeli involvement/instigation of this invasion/'genocide'. Any Bush 'protest' about invasions and sovereignity are just MOSSAD based methods of blaming others for your own crimes which have no basis for having been committed in the first place. Too bad the VAST majority of Americans cannot think for themselves and actually believe the garbage and lies from the government and 'news'.
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 02:18 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
^^ Yes that's how the operate means they are experts in mirroring their wrongdoings ^^
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/30/2008 03:08 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
OSCE report points finger at Georgia for S. Ossetia crisis
17:07 | 30/ 08/ 2008

Print version

BERLIN, August 30 (RIA Novosti) - The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe has accumulated evidence pointing to "numerous wrong decisions" made by Georgian leaders that led to a military crisis with Russia, Der Spiegel said on Saturday.

In a report to be published in its Monday edition, OSCE military observers in the Caucasus described detailed planning by Georgia to move into South Ossetia which contributed to the crisis, the German magazine said.

The report also backed up Russian claims that the Georgian offensive was already in full swing by the time Russian troops and armored vehicles entered the Roksky Tunnel, on the border with Russia and South Ossetia, to protect its peacekeepers and the civilian population.

The OSCE report also contains suspected war crimes committed by Georgians, who ordered attacks on sleeping South Ossetian civilians.

Georgia attacked South Ossetia on August 8 in an attempt to regain control over the separatist republic, which split from Tbilisi in the early 1990s.

Most people living in South Ossetia have Russian citizenship and Moscow subsequently launched an operation to "force Georgia to accept peace." The operation was concluded on August 12.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed decrees Tuesday recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states and called on other countries to follow suit.

Russia has accused Georgia of committing "genocide" by launching the offensive in South Ossetia. Russia is calling for an international war crimes trial for the Georgian leadership, which Moscow says is responsible for massive loss of life in South Ossetia.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 06:32 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
bump
FF (OP)
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08/30/2008 07:28 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Who fired first and what for?
Russia did not start “an aggression”.

The carpet shelling of South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali (Tskhinval in Ossetian) by Georgia began 8 August 2008 exactly at 00.06 AM, the military intrusion of its regular infantry and armored units into the city started three hours and 30 minutes later – at 03.36.

At 04.33 Moscow urgently convened the UN Security Council meeting, but failed to persuade its members to help to stop the aggression and atrocities.

The first group of Russian tanks entered the already destroyed Tskhinvali at 16.43 the same day.

The timing of a takeover of the city was carefully chosen by Tbilisi.

People all over the world were watching the Olympic Games in China. The Russian leaders were out of Moscow: President Dmitry Medvedev spent a short vacation in the Volga river area with his family, while Premier Vladimir Putin attended the Olympic Games in Bejing.

Late at night 7 August, or two hours before the shelling of the South Ossetian capital by Georgian forces had started, Mikhail Saakashvili released a smoke-screen – he made an emotional “peace-loving statement” on the Georgian national TV where he promised to the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia “a substantial autonomy in the framework of Georgia,” while his Army units were finally preparing to deliver a major blow – first against South Ossetians and second, in a couple of days, against Abkhazia.

On the other hand, Washington has repeatedly lulled Moscow that it would never let Tbilisi to use military force to resolve territorial issues in the Caucasus.

Russian, South Ossetian and Abkhazian leaders were greatly concerned over the fact that the attack of the Georgian Army on Ossetia preceded by heavy bombardment of Tskhinvali that began at midnight with the use of hundreds of a 122-mm multiple rocket launchers BM-21“Grad” (in 20 seconds salvo it can destroy everything in the area of 20 hectares), heavy artillery and mortars, tank fire and air strikes, deliberately targeting civilians and non-military targets. Seemingly, Mikhail Saakashvili was not interested in retaining the local infrastructure of South Ossetia or its people – his main objective was territory. It is interesting to note that this operation was codenamed “Empty Field.” It had been elaborated by President Saakashvili in 2006 –two years after he assumed power.

As the result 2,100 civilians inside the capital were killed (figures have been confirmed by South Ossetian and Russian officials, but they are not final, because there could be more dead persons under the rubbles). Almost the entire city has been coventrated – nearly all schools, kindergartens, and the republican hospital were totally destroyed, water supply systems severely damaged, the Parliament and University buildings burned. As a result of Georgia's attack, around 70% of buildings in the capital were destroyed, and gas and electricity were cut off. Many wounded or alive South Ossetians have been chased by the Georgian military and shot at as if they were targets at the firing range or set ablaze in the houses and shelters they tried to hide in.

The official reaction from Moscow to Tbilisi’s scheme to launch a major attack versus South Ossetia was quick and straightforward: from the outset of the intrusion the Kremlin labeled it as an act of “genocide, ethnic cleansing, and military crimes”, resulting into a humanitarian catastrophe – nearly 34,000 refugees from South Ossetia flooded neighbouring Russian republics within 36 hours after the bombardment of Tskhinvali had started: North Ossetia, Krasnodarsky Krai and Chechnya. “The act of aggression on the part of Georgia's authorities is unprecedented, it goes beyond understanding, when a country whose army has been equipped with another country uses its armed forces against civilians, against peacekeepers,” the Russian president said.

Thomas Hammarberg, the Council of Europe's commissioner for human rights during his visit to the devastated South Ossetian capital 24 August called the destruction in Tskhinvali an insult to mankind. In his words, what had occurred in the city during the attack on the breakaway republic by Georgian forces on August 8 should never be repeated. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, Antonio Guterres, earlier called damage in Tskhinvali as “overwhelming.” A Russian MP compared the ruined city with the WW2 Stalingrad.

Russia was also worried over the fact that as the result of this attack, namely 15 Russian peacekeepers out of 588 who stayed there under two international agreements that have been monitoring the ceasefire for the last fifteen years together with Georgian peacekeepers were killed and as many as 150 injured. The Russians expressed their anger when they heard the news that many Russian peacekeepers were brutally killed by their former “comrades-in-arms” – Georgian peacekeepers – who were using not only light weapons, but tanks as well to fire at the Russian peacekeeping headquarters.
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 07:32 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
You mean a full scale invasion like that of USrael in Iraq?

Calling the Georgian case a full scale invasion only proves how far low you mega-phoney proportion twisters have come ...
 Quoting: FreeFlow


How do they keep from choking to death on their own bullshit.
FF (OP)
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08/30/2008 09:15 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
^^ lol ^^

Where's lampfade, he should read this!

+ all the rest of the neo-can shills ...
Anonymous Coward
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08/30/2008 09:22 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Massive critics on Tiflis according to a report of the German news magazine "Der Spiegel" from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE):
A "wrongdoing" of the Georgian government has contributed to the outbreak of the Caucasus crisis. In the reports from OSCE observers there is even the speak of possible Georgian war crimes, the Georgian command has ordered to attack S Ossetia at deep night.
 Quoting: FreeFlow


"Wrong-doing"?

What has been really wrong-doing is that Russia has been arming the South Ossetians since 1990s in the violations of the 1994 agreement between Georgia, South Ossetia and Russia. The OSCE position on this is just ignorant and irresponsible, ignoring the evidences in favor of mollycuddling to Russia's blustering threats.
FF (OP)
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08/30/2008 09:26 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
^^ I am sure the OSCE has the oversight what happened, you can discuss your concerns with them if you want ...


It's obvious that the notorious defenders of the Georgia and hence of USrael have no proportions estimation capabilities.
FF (OP)
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08/31/2008 08:23 AM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
bump
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2008 08:27 AM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
not surprised. i can't believe how many rednecks here are still insisting it was all russias fault and that russia just wanted to annex ossetia, and just stupid stuff. i have never seen a more blantant display of ugly american since this thing.

Yes poopaganda fully revved up ...
 Quoting: FreeFlow

Idol1
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08/31/2008 08:31 AM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
mega-phoney proportion twisters

 Quoting: FreeFlow


LOL

.
FF (OP)
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08/31/2008 10:34 AM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
mega-phoney proportion twisters



LOL

.
 Quoting: TX PATRIOT 440969

hi TXP!
FF (OP)
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08/31/2008 06:41 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
German weekly: Georgia planned attack on sleeping civilians
Evidence of “numerous erroneous decisions of the Georgian leadership which led to the beginning of a crisis in the Caucasus” are accumulating in the OSCE headquarters, says the German weekly magazine Der Spiegel in an announcement of an article to be published on Monday.

The magazine says that “a lot of corresponding reports by OSCE observers in the Caucasus have unofficially fallen into the hands of some governmental authorities in Berlin.”

According to this data, Georgia had been actively preparing a military strike against South Ossetia and began the attack before Russian tanks entered the Roksky tunnel connecting South Ossetia and Russia.

Also, there are reports of observers who say that the Georgian authorities ordered that the attack on South Ossetian civilians at night when they were sleeping, the announcement says.
Anonymous Coward
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08/31/2008 06:47 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
We know how words can be twisted and interpreted by all sides. We'll have to wait till tomorrow what the report truly states.

It's certain though that the OSCE has condemned Russia for recognizing the independence of South-Ossettia and Abchazia:

"...The recognition of independence for South Ossetia and Abkhazia violates fundamental OSCE principles," Alexander Stubb, chairman in office of the 56-nation Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, said in a statement..."

[link to www.alertnet.org]
FF (OP)
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08/31/2008 06:54 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Here's the report in German, it bears heavy accusations against Georgia indeed.


[link to www.spiegel.de]
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/31/2008 06:58 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
It talks about 'massive' misconducts from the Georgian leadership ...
Georgis planned the aggression and started it BEFORE the Russian tanks came into S Ossetia through the tunnel ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/31/2008 07:00 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
Doc I don't see the major failures on both sides, not in this case.

Sorry I just can't help.

The truth is getting out, that's important.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/31/2008 07:02 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
You do realize that
at least one third of the people living in South Ossetia
were ethnic Georgians, right?


Russians didn't murder Georgian civilians in case that's a serious difference.
You would have got that presented by the US MSM with lots of lust ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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08/31/2008 07:06 PM
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Re: UPDATED! OSCE observers: Evidence amounts that the leadership in Tiflis was responsible for the war.
You write like nothing happened there before that. Why are
you ignoring the past? If you want to understand what's going
on you have to look at the last 17 years there.
 Quoting: DrPostman

Why has it always to be the past that is brought up to justify striking escalations?

Fact is Georgia attacked the solely civilian S Osssetian capital with rocket launchers and artillery at deep night, also with soldiers taking house after house.
The Georgian TV had half hourly updates like Part one of Tsikinvali taken, then part two and so on ...

It's just not both sides were wrong in this case.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...





GLP