BREAKING*** 3 MONTH T-BILLS AT LOWEST RATES SINCE 1929!!!!

Multiple answers to that.

Ireland will be taken over/at least the banks/if they haven't already. Your guess is as good as mine/ it has to be done to defend the Euro. -If it survives-


-"Shopping"- for bonds, would require you to , in the best way, to set up an account with : [link to www.treasurydirect.gov]


They allow you to purchase and redeem.

If they still are accepting accounts.....seriously.


Or you can buy them through work, but the processing times are ridiculous and there are fees to redeem(can be done through a any bank)


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Next issue:

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As far as the "bills" or investment grade "bonds" they can be purchased at the yields the treasury offers anytime, the deal will go through upon request and the auction is offered, providing you have the account I spoke of.

All it is, Is your best guess, for the return that you need over a period of time, compared to the "Investments" you can make in the open market.


If you buy low term/short yield bills, they can bee redeemed upon request.
If you buy long term/higher yield "bonds" they can still be redeemed upon request.


No-one- is going to "take your money".


The bonds, themselves are just resold again by the treasury.


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The real catch and the scenario, is to get people to "reinvest in the market" for higher yields, like dividends, from large companies.

Or investing in gold, commodities.

Thats the game, that we are playing.

As someone so astutely stated, "Hey its just like Vegas"

Or you can put it in a bank, think about it.But what is a treasury account, beside a bank?

here's the truth the elite don't want to tell you.

the bonds is the last bubble to burst, china like the slaves they are will continue to buy bonds and help the elites while they try devaule thier currency to keep the chinese people from revoliting (20+ million jobless).

of course when the elite deem it the time to crash the american market, the goverment will go with it, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REDEEM your bonds, or your bank accounts.

everything will be gridlocked, most of the world will go up in flames as world war 3 starts, and people are forced into another system.

the market is right now under Quantitative Easing, there is no market its just paulson proping up stocks, and flooding the system with credit.

the depression cannot be stoped, they cannot bail,print,or borrrow themselfs out. they are just using Quantitative Easing as a way to delay the effect, and let people rush into one last bubble...

I thought I made that pretty clear?

What we were doing here, was making fun, of the treasury values, in open market trade.


What we all came in here for was what to look for, in consideration of what we believe to be happening to the financial structure we live in.



Or why even look?



There is no place we can watch, except one thing.


How far will the world debase the other currencies, or ours.


Couple hints, who has debt? and who has value?

Who has debt and no value?

Who has value with no debt?


There is a spectrum, of the proposed scenario, in front of you.

Hence, the fight over currencies.



----------------------------->

So we get back to this, weird semi-market where treasuries are purchased and sold.As we watch the values of currencies rise and fall.

YET!, In one day, we can see the value of every single stock cut in half, yet the DOW goes up.

Yet Commodities like oil and gold still fall.

What if its a gov. ploy to get tha sheeple to give up thier $$$ so the fed can take it to bail out more banksters ? As i recall, the fed "stole" money from t-bills last year , it was were they got the money from for the first round of bailouts, i think.

It's like the Merchantile era all over again. Wars have been fought over currency values, even world wars.

Quite a number fought over gold as well.

This competition between currencies may be globalization's undoing. One world reserve currency turned even money into a commodity. Once the values are continually in flux between a broad basket of currencies competing again exports and imports will not be regular and steady and accounts will be payed late hoping for a chance to game the exchange rates for a few%.

Globalization could unravel along with the export economies models that the world increasingly relies on.

And some sheople belive that advanced alines travll thousands of light years to come watch this crazy carry

No treasury funds have ever been"stolen"- the reason I know this-is because people are still buying them.--Can I get an obvious??---

If that rumor started- it would be the end of them, in fact it is so obviously idiotic, because they can just print more money......



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It is a good point, but the mechanics of it will be debasement of the currency.

Thus allowing more money to be printed, at will, and leaving the hook for future generations, but at this rate(yield), it isn't much.


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Please everyone, do not forget the ponzi scheme, that is occurring with "quantitative easing". At any moment, the "Financial institutions" can redeem them.


What I see is another," bubble "occurring inside the financial markets with "forced redemptions", In effect that is a threat from the fed-- if the "institutions" decide to redeem all at once.


Again,THAT-Is a threat, from the fed-a "warning" that mass redemption's, will be handled, in VOLUME.


Regardless, of the country or institution that would like to"cash out"

Can anyone here still accept, that the fed stands on a precipice, of debasement?


The fed is using debasement as a lever, to force, other countries and currencies to accept the "current value" of the US dollar?

As Ron Paul, so eloquently stated, "This is Price fixing"


Can you "feel" the energy.

THAT'S because it IS 1929 AGAIN but it won't be recognized for another year ( LIKE the unrecognized recession)

With the masses having LESS than an eighth grade educartion, even when announced next December, there WILL be FULL denial ! Just a few grunts, and " Where the H is my beer money, O-BUM-A ? The ONLY 'change' I see is the change in my pocket; my wallet is EMPTY !"

great thread..

the amount on money that is on loan to the third world countrys from the Euro Land Countrys as a percent of their GDP ....well I was looking for the words I want to use here....there is none..

the amount is out of site....


now the GDP reported from the USA is a sham..

every news letter I know of is reporting to get into T-Bills..

to me this is a red flag...

do not run with the bunch.....there is some thing ealse in play

just my thoughts...paladin

Thats my view also. I am getting some money in January and want to invest in something that will give me a nice return either short or long term but Im running scared right now. I have a good bit in gold and silver coins and wonder if I dare buy more and just wait. I don't know anymore.

lets put it this way-as long as there is some semblence of order-the T-bill would be the last to sink along with our Gub'mint-so its as safe as our government-though I wouldnt get TOO excited about that
my granny bought me a $1000 Savings bond in 198 6for me for when she died in 1991
The thing matures at the end of this month-its worth-a whopping $1600!!!!!!

So via inflation, she actually stiffed me as Its now worth in REAL money only $100

Is there anything else, besides what I have stated here? that I can help anyone with?


Does everyone kindof understand, what is occuring?

Why, they are occurring I cannot answer, nor can I answer where they are going ,long term, But I can speculate, with some variance
of the possibilities in front of us all, I am willing to run the gambit of speculation, but that requires some input and insightful questions from the audience.


As far as, what is happening now, in the last two weeks. I can explain.


I reserve my opinion, with what will happen in the short term, with a lot of reservation, mostly, because I am subject to the same, bullshit, that is happening to you all.


Every single day, the rules change. There is no market anymore.



We have VERY few indicators-that still have any merit whatsoever.

Even the ones, that we have seen,tracked,and we all have followed the theads, have fallen away , One by one, until we have No transparency, whatsoever.



If you want me to really disgust you all.


TechnicalTrader, following the dollar index, may finally be the last indicator of failure.

Told you it was disgusting.

I appreciate this intellectual banter between all of you, but give it to us straight.

WTF DO WE DO TO PROTECT OUR ASSES?!?!

What are your Assets? and your situation?

This is basic structure and information w/speculation.


I would always say, to most circumstances, SELF SUFFICIENCY and Self Preservation.

But that is theory is as much as what I am speaking of up above, so:


If, that is out of your range, then there are other things that you need to deal with with, besides this thread.


This isn't out of anyone's range. Nor is what I just stated to you.

I have jack shit...Sure, Ive got a couple thousand in cash and gold/silver a pantry stock and whatever but my parents have the money. Most in exxon stock (thrift - cant take it completely out sorta, no access to cash for at least 2.5 years), some in devalued 401k, and even less in mutual funds etfs :(

So what do I tell them to do...Ive got them to the point that they'll listen but i better be fucking right in what I tell them. I HAVE GOT TO BE RIGHT!!!!

also we have a farm kinda...

it could be self sufficient for about 15,000

Leave it all, right where it is.


we already hit $40 dolla oil.


say nothing.


The cash, i would do what smart money is doing for 6 months.


let it lie and don't spend it, you may need it.


You can buy some seeds, and grow some food, buy peppers(winter stuff) and silly stuff right now, with sack of manure, grow the seeds to sprout inside, the house, cut a hole in the sacks and stick em in.


see if you enjoy it, just for fun.

whats $10 and maybe something you may learn about yourself.


There are other aspects, Like your age and your state of mind.

those are for your consideration.

this is the best thread yet. Great stuff. I'm not all that smart with financials so weeding through all the logic here has helped my understanding of whats going on.

Ok, I don't see to many others, so I am gonna roll off to bed for a few, If you have anything, ask and I will answer em at a later point. If you cant respond, because you may be elsewhere, say so.


I never sleep long, so , it is what it is.

well said. And very believeable.

It really appears the powers that be are just monkeying around now with not letting it all collapse. They seem to be waiting to set up something before they pull the plug.

and yet just a few days ago it was posted on this board that t bills are being sold and never delivered, and on a rampant scale.

4 years ago I read an article that said that perhaps half of all stocks sold were never delivered. That the mechanism effectively doubled the number of stock certificates traded.

Here is a link: [link to www.newgeography.com]

Blame Wall Street's Phantom Bonds for the Credit Crisis
by Susanne Trimbath 11/26/2008

The “credit crisis” is largely a Wall Street disaster of its own making. From the sale of stocks and bonds that are never delivered, to the purchase of default insurance worth more than the buyer’s assets, we no longer have investment strategies, but rather investment schemes. As long as everyone was making money, no one complained. But like any Ponzi Scheme, eventually the pyramid begins to collapse.

For the last couple of months trillions of dollars worth of US Treasury bonds have been sold but undelivered. Trades that go unsettled have become an event so common that the industry has an acronym for it: FTD, or fail to deliver.

What’s the result? For the federal government, it’s an unnecessarily high rate of interest to finance the national debt. For states, it’s a massive loss of potential tax revenue. And for the bond buyers, brokerage houses, and banks, it’s yet another crash-and-burn to come.

First, a primer: The Federal Government issues as many bonds as Congress authorizes (the total value is an amount that basically covers the national debt). Many are purchased by brokers and investors, who then re-sell them in “secondary” trades.

The way the system is supposed to work is that the broker takes your bond order today and tomorrow takes the cash from your account and ‘delivers’ the bonds to you. The bonds remain in your broker’s name (or the name of a central depository, if he uses one). If there is interest, the Treasury pays the interest to your broker and he credits your account for the amount.

What is happening today that strays from this model? Because the financial regulators do not require that the actual bonds be delivered to the buyer, your broker credits you with an electronic IOU for them, and, eventually, with the interest payments as well. But the so-called “bonds” that you receive as an electronic IOU, called an “entitlement”, are phantoms: there aren’t any bonds delivered by your broker to you, or by the government to your broker, or by anyone.

The significant result of the IOU system is that brokers are able to sell many more bonds than the Congress has authorized. The transactions are called ‘settlement failures’ or ‘failed to deliver’ events, since the broker reported bond purchases beyond what the sellers delivered.

Since all of this happens after the US Treasury originally issues the bonds, the broker’s bookkeeping is separate from US Treasury records. That means there is no limit on the number of IOUs the broker can hand out...and there are usually more IOUs in circulation than there are bonds.

The ramifications are far reaching for the national budget. Wall Street, by selling bonds that it cannot deliver to the buyer — in selling more bonds than the government has issued — has been allowed to artificially inflate supply, thereby forcing bond prices down.

These undelivered Treasuries represent unfulfilled demand by investors willing to lend money to the US government. That money — the payment for the bonds — has been intercepted by the selling broker-dealers. The subsequently artificially low bond prices are forcing the US government to pay a higher rate of interest than it should in order to finance the national debt.


The market for US Treasury bonds has been in serious disarray since the days immediately following September 11, 2001. Despite reports, reviews, examinations, committee meetings, speeches, and advisory groups formed by the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and broker-dealer associations, massive failures to deliver recur and persist.

Somehow, government, regulators and industry specialists alike believe that it’s OK to sell more bonds than the government has issued. It shouldn’t take a PhD-trained economist to tell you that prices are set where supply equals demand. If a dealer can sell an infinite supply of bonds (or stocks or anything else for that matter), then the price is, technically-speaking, baloney. And the resulting field of play cannot be called a “market”.

If regulators and the central clearing corporation would only enforce delivery of Treasury bonds for trade settlement — payment — at something approaching the promised, stated, contracted and agreed upon T+1 (one day after the trade), there would be an immediate surge in the price of US Treasury securities.

As the prices of bonds rise, the yield falls. This falling yield then translates into a lower interest rate that the US government has to pay in order to borrow the money it needs to fund the budget deficit and to refinance the existing national debt.

This week’s drop in the yield on US Treasuries was accompanied by a spike in bond prices. The data won’t be released until next week, but you can expect to see that a precipitous drop in fails-to-deliver occurred at the same time. Don’t get your hopes up, though. One look at the chart above will tell you that the good news won’t last until real changes are made to the system.

As a bonus insult to government, consider the $270 million in lost tax revenues to the states. This is because investors (unknowingly) report the phony interest payments made to them by their brokers as tax exempt; interest earned on US Treasury bonds is not taxed by the states.

For the bond buyer, the situation poses other problems and risks. As an ordinary investor, you’re not notified that the bonds were not delivered to you or to your broker. Of course, your broker knows, but doesn’t share the information with you because he or she plans to make good on the trade only at some point in the future when you order the bond to be sold.

The electronic IOU you received can only be redeemed at your brokerage house, and no one knows what will happen if it goes under, although I suspect we’ll find out in the coming quarters as more financial institutions get into deeper trouble.

You’re probably not aware that, in order to cash in that IOU when you’re ready to sell, you depend not on the full faith and credit of the US government, but on your broker being in business next month (or next year) to make good on the trade. In other words, you’re taking Lehman Brothers risk, and receiving only US Government risk-free rates of return on your investment.

Your broker, meanwhile, enjoys the advantages of commission charges for the trade, maybe an account maintenance fee and – more importantly – they use your money for other purposes. Wall Street is not sharing any of this extra investment income with you. In my analysis of Trade Settlement Failures in US Bond Markets, I calculate this “loss of use of funds” to investors at $7 billion per year, conservatively.

Despite this, rather than require that sold bonds be delivered to the buyer, the Treasury Market Practices Group at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York merely points out FTDs as “examples of strategies to avoid.”

Now for the really bad news. The tolerance for unsettled trades and complete disregard for the effect of supply on setting true-market prices is also responsible for the "sub-prime crisis," which everyone seems to agree on as the root of the current global financial turmoil. You see, there are more credit default swaps — CDS — traded on mortgage bonds than there are mortgage bonds outstanding.

A CDS is like insurance. The buyer of a mortgage bond pays a premium, and if the mortgage defaults then the CDS seller makes them whole. CDS are sold in multiples of the underlying assets.

A conservative estimate is that $9 worth of CDS “insurance” has been sold for every $1 in mortgage bond. Therefore, someone stands to gain $9 if the homeowner defaults, but only $1 if they pay. The economic incentives favor foreclosure, not mortgage work-outs or Main Street bailouts.

In the same process that is multiplying Treasury bonds, sellers are permitted to “deliver” CDS that were not created to correspond with actual mortgages; call them “phantom CDS”. According to October 31, 2008 data on CDS registered in the Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation’s (DTCC) Trade Information Warehouse, about $7 billion more CDS insurance was bought on Countrywide Home Loans than Countrywide sold in mortgage bonds. That provides a terrific incentive to foreclose on mortgages.

Countrywide is the game’s major player: The gross CDS contracts on Countrywide of $84.6 billion are equivalent to 82% of the $103.3 billion CDS sold on all mortgage-backed securities (including commercial mortgages) and 90% of the total $94.4 billion CDS registered at DTCC sold on residential mortgage-backed securities.

General Electric Capital Corporation is the fifth largest single name entity with more CDS bought on it than it what it has sold; someone is in a position to benefit by $12 billion more from consumer default than from helping consumers to pay off their debt. Only Italy, Spain, Brazil and Deutsche Bank have more phantom CDS than GECC, according to the DTCC’s data.

The US auto manufacturers also have net phantom CDS in circulation: $11 billion for Ford, $4 billion for General Motors, and $3.3 billion for DaimlerChrysler (plus an additional $3.5 billion at the parent Daimler). Of course, these numbers change from week to week and only represent CDS voluntarily registered with the DTCC, so the real numbers could be much greater.

Who stands to gain? There is no transparency for CDS trades, which means that we don’t know who these buyers are. But in order to get paid on these CDS, the buyer must be a DTCC Participant… and that brings us to Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley – all Participants at DTCC and instrumental in designing and developing CDS trading around the world.

By the way, these firms are also in the group that reports FTDs in US Treasuries; the top four firms represent more than 50% of all trades. You can do the math from there.

The US government and regulators are in the best position to end these fiascos, turn us away from casino capitalism, and return our financial industry back into a market. It won’t require any new rules, laws or regulations to fix the situation. If someone takes your money and doesn’t give you what you bought, that’s just plain stealin’, and we already have laws against that.

Susanne Trimbath, Ph.D. is CEO and Chief Economist of STP Advisory Services. Her training in finance and economics began with editing briefing documents for the Economic Research Department of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco. She worked in operations at depository trust and clearing corporations in San Francisco and New York, including Depository Trust Company, a subsidiary of DTCC; formerly, she was a Senior Research Economist studying capital markets at the Milken Institute. Her PhD in economics is from New York University. In addition to teaching economics and finance at New York University and University of Southern California (Marshall School of Business), Trimbath is co-author of Beyond Junk Bonds: Expanding High Yield Markets.

I and my family have a family farm in montana. We moved here 40 years ago from davis , calif.. Just seemed calif. was getting to crowded. And I for one had a bad feeling about the future there.

For some reason the last 5 years I've been stocking food, provisions and other needs. I've tried to not make it look obvious. But my family who all have seperate houses on the farm have mentioned what am I doing. Have I turned into a survivalist or something.

But who knows how bad its gonna be. A nuculear war could be very bad. Any war would be bad. Just feel like alot of others that something is about to happen soon that will change our lives.

You do what everybody else has been doing for 15 months: switch between commodities, gold, dollars, t bills, euros to preserve equity. Don't worry about returns, worry about equity retention.

Applying this strategy over just the last 16 months earned me a 700% equity increase. And I am one of millions playing the same game. I don't do short selling, those guys are probably dusting me.

There is no one thing that you can do that will protect your ass. You have to anticipate the market's next turn and switch from one asset to the next to take advantage.

Because we are in an age of volatility. NOBODY really knows what will happen three or 13 months from now. Too many daily and weekly surprises. You can only plan for next week.

Right now it is t bills, for 5 months before that it was US dollars, before that it was all commodities. It changes as conditions change. 2 years ago Real Estate flipping was all the rage, as were credit default swaps and obviously CDO's.

The most important thing is to have your plans drawn in advance including how you will convert from one asset to another quickly if necessary or according to what indications.

Right now the dollar is hinting pretty strong it might tank. Long term this is pretty likely. And it might happen really fast. So you have to have an option for converting to euros or gold or commodities that is in place and ready to execute.

Do it right and you earn 30% in a few weeks or months. Do it half assed and you get 100% equity retention.

Every 3 minutes repeat the phrase "equity retention" to yourself out loud whenever you are thinking about trading.

Don't take any risks at all. Just anticipate what will follow from what IS HAPPENING NOW, and adjust accordingly with the singular goal of retaining equity.

The market's own volatility will earn you dividends. This is better than 17 years of unsustainable growth.

You don't think Ireland will seceed from or be forced out of the EU?



I'm surprised the treasury doesn't invest the money from the bonds into the stock market. If the peons see the stock market go up they'll jump in thinking it's a bargain.

Actually, World War One started in 1914 just after the Austrian central bank got it's balls chopped off. So world wars are fought when the Jewish superbankers get told to fuck themselves.

Take Russia for instance, they said, "We will protect muslims." and their market got hit to the tune of 75%. Obama suggests that he will stand with the muslims and America has a absolute horror day for the Dow.

It's not rocket surgery.

No I think thats a horrible idea. Leave it all where its at....wtf? Just because they cant access the money from the exxon stock doesnt mean they shouldnt move it to cash. Right?? Why wouldnt they? If the market crashes...what good is it in stock or equities?

From what you're saying treasury bills are just as bad becasuse they are the next bubble...so cant do that either.

And Im not new to this...I've already grown a garden and we have assets. Dont worry about that.

So what do they do with their wealth??!? Wealth preservation is what im looking for.

Well if you can muster a more indepth explanation or some links to the historical events of which you speak that would be great.

In any case many wars were fought over currency exchange rates and gold. Bretton Wood's whole significance was in negating the frictions caused by exchange rate conflicts.

dayyyyuuuummmm, mofo's got no common sense anymore...

if the freakin Fed Funds Discount Rate is down to dayyyuuummm near zero percent, not too many people are gonna make money buying Treasury Notes...

chit, the U.S. can barely make payments on the freakin National Debt right now!!!

i don't know economics but i know if 0% is what the banks are charging each other, they ain't making chit!!!

right and wrong. If the T bill is offering a guaranteed zero% return and the dollar gains by 3% in the term then a bond holder still earns 3%/term.