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Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?

 
mathetes
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02/10/2009 02:56 AM
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Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Feb. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Republican Senators are questioning whether President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill contains the right mix of tax breaks and cash infusions to jump-start the economy.

Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head the Health and Human Services Department.

Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”

Keeping doctors informed of the newest medical findings is important, but enforcing uniformity goes too far.

New Penalties

Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)

What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

In 2006, a U.K. health board decreed that elderly patients with macular degeneration had to wait until they went blind in one eye before they could get a costly new drug to save the other eye. It took almost three years of public protests before the board reversed its decision.

Hidden Provisions

If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

The stimulus bill will affect every part of health care, from medical and nursing education, to how patients are treated and how much hospitals get paid. The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).

Hiding health legislation in a stimulus bill is intentional. Daschle supported the Clinton administration’s health-care overhaul in 1994, and attributed its failure to debate and delay. A year ago, Daschle wrote that the next president should act quickly before critics mount an opposition. “If that means attaching a health-care plan to the federal budget, so be it,” he said. “The issue is too important to be stalled by Senate protocol.”

More Scrutiny Needed

On Friday, President Obama called it “inexcusable and irresponsible” for senators to delay passing the stimulus bill. In truth, this bill needs more scrutiny.

The health-care industry is the largest employer in the U.S. It produces almost 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. Yet the bill treats health care the way European governments do: as a cost problem instead of a growth industry. Imagine limiting growth and innovation in the electronics or auto industry during this downturn. This stimulus is dangerous to your health and the economy.

[link to www.bloomberg.com]
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:13 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
bump
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:16 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
What you mean you don't want the people who run the post office and amtrack to run your health care?
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:17 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
What you mean you don't want the people who run the post office and amtrack to run your health care?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 113872

Exactly!
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:22 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
One more bump to see if anyone is paying attention
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:23 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
One more bump to see if anyone is paying attention
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 113872

Thank you..this affects everyone!
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:23 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
MY FAVORITE PART IS USING THE WORD CZAR FOR ALL THESE WATER HEAD BABIES.

COMING UP NEXT, REICHSMARSHALL OF THE INTERIOR.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:26 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
good catch

the words in bold are already in use by federal systems and have been since 2001

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:29 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
good catch

the words in bold are already in use by federal systems and have been since 2001

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 574463


And it will let everyone in the gov. know everything about you.
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:30 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
good catch

the words in bold are already in use by federal systems and have been since 2001

The bill’s health rules will affect “every individual in the United States” (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 574463

Very true but this is absurd and dangerous
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:38 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

TRANSLATED:

Once you're of a certain age please feel free to just die.

(Logan's Run here we come)
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:41 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

TRANSLATED:

Once you're of a certain age please feel free to just die.

(Logan's Run here we come)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 600040

Of course this WON'T apply to Congress
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
JohnnyCarcinogen

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02/10/2009 10:44 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.
 Quoting: mathetes


Seriously?
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
mathetes  (OP)

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02/10/2009 10:49 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.


Seriously?
 Quoting: JohnnyCarcinogen

The bill is over 600 pages and no one has read all of it,makes you wonder what else lurks beneath
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 10:50 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Health care does need some revision.

I was in the hospital 3 weeks ago.

The patient next to me was a 93 year old dementia patient. She was brought in with no clothes from a nursing home.

She did not keep her hospital gown on for long. She screamed, sang, talked to people, real conversations, in random order 24 hours a day. She wore diapers. She didn't know where she was.

Even though I felt sorry for her, I was in for a serious condition and was not able to get any kind of rest.

She had received a left hip replacement. Complete with physical therapy, walker crutches and various devices and services. She had no idea what was going on.

What the hell does someone in that kind of shape getting a hip replacement?

Medicare pays for it...

even though it was morally and ethically wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 11:18 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Health care does need some revision.

I was in the hospital 3 weeks ago.

The patient next to me was a 93 year old dementia patient. She was brought in with no clothes from a nursing home.

She did not keep her hospital gown on for long. She screamed, sang, talked to people, real conversations, in random order 24 hours a day. She wore diapers. She didn't know where she was.

Even though I felt sorry for her, I was in for a serious condition and was not able to get any kind of rest.

She had received a left hip replacement. Complete with physical therapy, walker crutches and various devices and services. She had no idea what was going on.

What the hell does someone in that kind of shape getting a hip replacement?

Medicare pays for it...

even though it was morally and ethically wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 11:18 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Health care does need some revision.

I was in the hospital 3 weeks ago.

The patient next to me was a 93 year old dementia patient. She was brought in with no clothes from a nursing home.

She did not keep her hospital gown on for long. She screamed, sang, talked to people, real conversations, in random order 24 hours a day. She wore diapers. She didn't know where she was.

Even though I felt sorry for her, I was in for a serious condition and was not able to get any kind of rest.

She had received a left hip replacement. Complete with physical therapy, walker crutches and various devices and services. She had no idea what was going on.

What the hell does someone in that kind of shape getting a hip replacement?

Medicare pays for it...

even though it was morally and ethically wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/10/2009 11:37 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
B!
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 11:47 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
I don't like Dasch anyway -- in bed with the insurance companies, imho. I understand the electronic data for ease and cost-cutting, but it's also dangerous -- as a provider (mental health), the managed care insurance companies already tell me what I can/cannot do and have way too much private info, anyway -- or what they will/will not pay for (ok. I can understand that to some degree.); now the gov will be doing that and imposing penalties ?! Case in point-- had a lady, anxiety disorder. Wanted to come off her meds and deal with her anxiety without meds. The insurance co. gave a lot of crap -- why doesn't she want to, it's most effective, we're not paying, etc etc. etc. She has been off all meds for over 6mths -- has some anxiety -- and is managing quite well despite increased stressors in her life. This is the kind of crap I am scared of --- forcing people on meds, offing the "old folks" and costly inform, the system telling people what they can/cannot do, etc. Takes away individual choice, privacy, etc. Magic 8-ball : "Outlook not so good"...
Chiox
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02/10/2009 11:50 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

TRANSLATED:

Once you're of a certain age please feel free to just die.

(Logan's Run here we come)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 600040



THE ORIGINAL "LOGAN'S RUN" SHOULD BE SHOWN AT THE MOVIE THEATERS AGAIN. IT'S COMING TRUE!

So does this mean I should drop my insurance since they won't be treating me in the future?
Evil Twin

02/10/2009 11:52 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).


 Quoting: mathetes

Look like no more treatment for the elderly. Once you reach a certain age, the gubmint deems your pain too costly to treat.

Fat people are next.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 11:57 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

TRANSLATED:

Once you're of a certain age please feel free to just die.

(Logan's Run here we come)



THE ORIGINAL "LOGAN'S RUN" SHOULD BE SHOWN AT THE MOVIE THEATERS AGAIN. IT'S COMING TRUE!

So does this mean I should drop my insurance since they won't be treating me in the future?
 Quoting: Chiox 569086



Look at the money they will save by killing off everyone when they reach 60 years old..... or younger......When they see how much they will save with 60 year olds.... then they may drop it down to 50 or 40 just to save more money...

.
Anonymous Coward
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02/10/2009 11:58 AM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Hillary is finally getting the health care plan she wanted..


.
Sinanju
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02/10/2009 12:00 PM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).



Look like no more treatment for the elderly. Once you reach a certain age, the gubmint deems your pain too costly to treat.

Fat people are next.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


>>Don't forget the smokers!
anonanon

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02/10/2009 12:06 PM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
One need only look at the Veterans Hospitals and medical systems to see what this will all look like by the time they finish with it.

Veterans can be on waiting lists for appointments for months and months. Treatments are denied or minimal.

Also look at the HMO practices which routinely deny and deny care and treatments hoping the patient will die while waiting.

I seem to recall there was a time when dialysis was denied to anyone over 65 in England with talk of it happening here as well.

We could get to the point where transplants, pacemakers, hip and knee replacements, even false teeth are denied over a certain age if someone in the federal government gets to decide what is or is not medically appropriate and necessary.

Wonder if Daschle denies himself any medical care or anyone in his family? Should be interesting to see what he does when he has to live with a painful or debilitating condition or disease.
alexviapissed
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02/10/2009 12:08 PM
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Re: Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan:HEALTH CARE SCARE: WHAT'S BURIED DEEP IN THE BILL?
no one should be accepting of what negative medical condition you haev at any age.
senior citizens of all people are more deserving of recieving health care, they've been around longer than we have.
just because they are old doesn't mean that it's a waste to treat them.
whichever anonymous coward said that one get back to all of us when you're in your 60's, we'll see how you feel then cause nothing is enjoyable anymore cause of the unbearable pain that comes with years of working your bones.





GLP