Human Sacrifice in Australia | |
mopar28m
User ID: 628173 United States 03/05/2009 12:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This is another atrocity going on in the world. [link to www.google.com] vaccinefreehealth blogspot com The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child. facebook.com/graphixyourway |
ShaneCMuir
(OP) User ID: 611456 Australia 03/05/2009 12:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
113333
User ID: 210102 Afghanistan 03/05/2009 12:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What a load of rubbish mopar28m! Quoting: ShaneCMuirIs this the best contribution you can make? A fake video? I was thinking the same thing about your OP. And why start another thread on the same subject that you did only a few weeks ago? OCD? Thread: Human Sacrifice in Australia |
ShaneCMuir
(OP) User ID: 611456 Australia 03/05/2009 01:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And why start another thread on the same subject that you did only a few weeks ago? OCD? Quoting: 113333Thread: Human Sacrifice in Australia Because it dissappeared. It wasnt in any of my searches. Thanks for finding it for me. |
113333
User ID: 210102 Afghanistan 03/05/2009 04:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Conspiratus
User ID: 628457 Australia 03/05/2009 05:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 625831 Australia 03/05/2009 05:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ShaneCMuir
(OP) User ID: 611456 Australia 03/07/2009 04:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 625571 United Kingdom 03/07/2009 04:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ShaneCMuir
(OP) User ID: 611456 Australia 03/07/2009 04:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Tragedies happen OP. I think this is very disrespectful to those poor souls who passed away. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 625831Disrespectful would be not asking the questions. Firefighters in Melbourne were stopped from attending the fires. I will use the 911 analogy again. Would you tell the people who lost love ones in those towers that it was disrespectful to question the official story? We know now the official 911 story is utter bullshit. It depends on what information you have doesnt it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629797 Australia 03/07/2009 04:53 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629803 Sweden 03/07/2009 05:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And why start another thread on the same subject that you did only a few weeks ago? OCD? Quoting: ShaneCMuirThread: Human Sacrifice in Australia |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 533031 United States 03/07/2009 05:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You heartless paraniod son of a runny cunt. I have two very good friends who damn near lost their lives and you LIE about what happened? ONE fire was caused by arson. The other two that grew into serious killers were caused by VERY poorly maintained power lines and lightning strikes. Human sacrifice - you sick mother fucker. You want to see evil? Go look in the mirror. It's right there ranting about the loss of human lives! You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. You make me ashamed to be part of this species and when ever I read your posts i wish we would die off and leave the world to a more rational species... And in your case that would start at mold. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 615470 Australia 03/07/2009 05:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629444 Australia 03/07/2009 06:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Tragedies happen OP. I think this is very disrespectful to those poor souls who passed away. Quoting: ShaneCMuirDisrespectful would be not asking the questions. Firefighters in Melbourne were stopped from attending the fires. I will use the 911 analogy again. Would you tell the people who lost love ones in those towers that it was disrespectful to question the official story? We know now the official 911 story is utter bullshit. It depends on what information you have doesnt it. Questioning the official story is one thing, though to claim it as sacrifice gives it a certain power and I would prefer to think of their souls as resting in peace. It was not a human sacrifice, it was a human tragedy. Anyway, I don't think questioning is going to be an issue. The victims have been quite vocal that the government environmental policies are to blame for the fire. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629444 Australia 03/07/2009 06:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You heartless paraniod son of a runny cunt. I have two very good friends who damn near lost their lives and you LIE about what happened? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 533031ONE fire was caused by arson. The other two that grew into serious killers were caused by VERY poorly maintained power lines and lightning strikes. Human sacrifice - you sick mother fucker. You want to see evil? Go look in the mirror. It's right there ranting about the loss of human lives! You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. You make me ashamed to be part of this species and when ever I read your posts i wish we would die off and leave the world to a more rational species... And in your case that would start at mold. I agree. I don't like seeing the thread continuously bumped. There really is no conspiracy here OP. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629444 Australia 03/07/2009 06:20 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If winds reach a certain velocity, and temperature reaches a certain point, they do not allow firefighters to fight the fires because it is basically suicide. You sir are an idiot! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629797Exactly. And if they were to go in anyway and be killed, their deaths would be a sacrifice. But for good not evil. |
Elephant Worker - NLI User ID: 593002 United States 03/07/2009 06:49 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 615470Sorry to bump the thread but I can't let this comment pass. Um, what f#cking environmentalist forced what laws onto the books that prevented the clearing of fuel for these super fires we are getting ? What f#cking idiots voted to pass these laws ? Everyone knows that's the problem. To allow these conditions, to legislate to ensure these conditions is pre meditated murder. Will someone please tell me what f#cking greenies pushed this? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629820 Sweden 03/07/2009 06:59 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. Quoting: Elephant Worker - NLI 593002Sorry to bump the thread but I can't let this comment pass. Um, what f#cking environmentalist forced what laws onto the books that prevented the clearing of fuel for these super fires we are getting ? What f#cking idiots voted to pass these laws ? Everyone knows that's the problem. To allow these conditions, to legislate to ensure these conditions is pre meditated murder. Will someone please tell me what f#cking greenies pushed this? Fires raced accross paddocks at unprecedented speed. Do you know what a paddock is? I don't wanna keep this bumped, OP is misguided imo, and very selective of what comments he answers, but until people realise that this was a tragedy that no amount of clearing and backburning could've prevented, these lame threads are gonna keep appearing. What the hell is it gonna take to put this to bed? |
Elephant Worker - NLI User ID: 593002 United States 03/07/2009 07:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fires raced accross paddocks at unprecedented speed. Do you know what a paddock is? I don't wanna keep this bumped, OP is misguided imo, and very selective of what comments he answers, but until people realise that this was a tragedy that no amount of clearing and backburning could've prevented, these lame threads are gonna keep appearing. What the hell is it gonna take to put this to bed? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629820Yeah thanks doofus, I know what a grass fire is. I started one myself when I was a kid. Fact is, summer's allways been this hot. Oooh, 47 degrees! Yeah, well I've had plenty of 46 degree days. The media is telling us we're in the age of the Mega Fire. [link to www.abc.net.au] Bullsh!t ! The aborigines knew to keep the bush from going bang by doing it themselves before it got out of control. Ask an old bushie WTF he's talking about when he says he made your tea with little sticks. It means he used twigs under the billie because they burn really hot and get it boiling quickly. Fire management has been a part of this country for thousands of years, and now this dumbed down generation has learned nothing because they've been told nothing and they're ripe to believe in this new terror that is striking the country. BULLSH!T ! It's a set up. I keep asking: What f#cking greenies demanded we leave fuel on the ground for these fires and what f#cking politicians commited pre meditated murder by voting for this so called legislation? And where is this alleged legislation? |
Curtis Loew
User ID: 623365 United States 03/07/2009 07:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The bushfires of February 2009 in Australia was Australia's Holocaust - brought to you by the same people who brought you the holocaust of World War 2, Kennedy's murder, and much much more. I have an idea - how about we bring the real perpetrators to justice this time. Quoting: ShaneCMuirYou sir... are a fucking moron! My Dog Ate My Signature. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629820 Sweden 03/07/2009 07:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Fires raced accross paddocks at unprecedented speed. Do you know what a paddock is? I don't wanna keep this bumped, OP is misguided imo, and very selective of what comments he answers, but until people realise that this was a tragedy that no amount of clearing and backburning could've prevented, these lame threads are gonna keep appearing. What the hell is it gonna take to put this to bed? Quoting: Elephant Worker - NLI 593002Yeah thanks doofus, I know what a grass fire is. I started one myself when I was a kid. Fact is, summer's allways been this hot. Oooh, 47 degrees! Yeah, well I've had plenty of 46 degree days. The media is telling us we're in the age of the Mega Fire. [link to www.abc.net.au] Bullsh!t ! The aborigines knew to keep the bush from going bang by doing it themselves before it got out of control. Ask an old bushie WTF he's talking about when he says he made your tea with little sticks. It means he used twigs under the billie because they burn really hot and get it boiling quickly. Fire management has been a part of this country for thousands of years, and now this dumbed down generation has learned nothing because they've been told nothing and they're ripe to believe in this new terror that is striking the country. BULLSH!T ! It's a set up. I keep asking: What f#cking greenies demanded we leave fuel on the ground for these fires and what f#cking politicians commited pre meditated murder by voting for this so called legislation? And where is this alleged legislation? This fire burnt 1 million acres. Are you aware of Black Thursday in 1851 where 5 million acres burnt? That's right, the Hume Highway from Kilmore to Coburg was on fire. It's what happens. Did anyone look for someone to blame then? And sorry, i've lived here my whole life and have never seen a day like that day's conditions put together. And correct me if i'm wrong, you smug little cunt, but Wilsons Prom is still burning is it not? Crown Land, is it not? Do you know how much of what's been destroyed was Crown Land? Do you even know what Crown Land is? The problem is that people can't process natural disasters anymore, there's always someone shouting conspiracy. The insensitive OP did it while bodies were still in houses. And btw, where do you live? |
too many dickheads - stfu User ID: 629827 Australia 03/07/2009 07:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | You don't give a shit about the people who died becasue of shithead eviromentalists forcing laws onto the books that prohibited them from clearing bruch and undergrowth away from their property. You couldn't care less about people who lost there lives fighting to save each other's homes. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629820Sorry to bump the thread but I can't let this comment pass. Um, what f#cking environmentalist forced what laws onto the books that prevented the clearing of fuel for these super fires we are getting ? What f#cking idiots voted to pass these laws ? Everyone knows that's the problem. To allow these conditions, to legislate to ensure these conditions is pre meditated murder. Will someone please tell me what f#cking greenies pushed this? Fires raced accross paddocks at unprecedented speed. Do you know what a paddock is? I don't wanna keep this bumped, OP is misguided imo, and very selective of what comments he answers, but until people realise that this was a tragedy that no amount of clearing and backburning could've prevented, these lame threads are gonna keep appearing. What the hell is it gonna take to put this to bed? I've been a firey for years, and in fire danger season i write permits if you want to burn. Have done for over 12 years. Greenies my arse, there are a variety of reasons for the lack of fuel reduction burning, and if you wanted to apportion lame for lack of burning off, maybe 20 percent goes to greenies. The rest goes to a combination of years of drought, beauracrap see, and OH & S or liability issues. And like the poster above said, no amount of back burning could have prevented what happened that day. You dickheads that don't understand what you are talking about are bad enough when you blame greenies and use this tragedy as an excuse to push your own political agenda, but when you start writing shit like the fuckwit OP ... OP I hope you die of catastrophic diarrhea in public. Its the only fate worthy of someone low enough to do what you did ... you worthless cunt. |
Conspiratus
User ID: 629594 Australia 03/07/2009 07:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I think this is more about some kind of dispute between unions and other bodies, but is interesting in any case. BTW: Don't shoot the messenger: [link to www.sbs.com.au] Nothing is what it seems |
Elephant Worker
User ID: 593002 United States 03/07/2009 07:58 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This fire burnt 1 million acres. Are you aware of Black Thursday in 1851 where 5 million acres burnt? That's right, the Hume Highway from Kilmore to Coburg was on fire. It's what happens. Did anyone look for someone to blame then? And sorry, i've lived here my whole life and have never seen a day like that day's conditions put together. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629820And correct me if i'm wrong, you smug little cunt, but Wilsons Prom is still burning is it not? Crown Land, is it not? Do you know how much of what's been destroyed was Crown Land? Do you even know what Crown Land is? The problem is that people can't process natural disasters anymore, there's always someone shouting conspiracy. The insensitive OP did it while bodies were still in houses. And btw, where do you live? OK, maybe I'm not making myself clear. The media is telling us the fires are the greenies fault. The greenies and global warming. I don't buy it. 1851 - didn't we just get rid of all the local natives and start managing the land ourselves around then ? Hmm, sounds like a dumb generation not knowing to manage the land to prevent devastating fires. 2009 - Land not managed - devastating fires. I'm asking who these greenies are because I don't believe they exist. I'm asking about the politicians who passed the legislation because I don't believe our legislators would leave themselves open to malfeasance accusations by passing this legislation. I'm saying it stinks of a deliberate action, or at best TPTB capitalising on the work of morans. ShaneCMuir sounds like a woo woo to me, he's definately apt at bumping his threads at the right moment, but he's raised an interesting issue. Who knows, maybe he's a spook ? Has anyone else noticed this elephant in the lounge room ? Another block of writing from Elephant full of supposition and condescension whilst saying pretty much nothing. - EggNigma 2/2/2011 |
Conspiratus
User ID: 629594 Australia 03/07/2009 08:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
yass
User ID: 555190 United States 03/07/2009 08:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP you managed to flush out all the shills... intimidation is their biz and when they come at ya attacking like that, it means you've hit a nerve. One of your aggressors I've known (is a shill) for over six years! (hehe) I don't know about the fire, but am out to study it asap. I can tell you though, that some years ago I ran across some info that said the New World Order would enslave Australia first, something like that. I'll have to look it up again sometime. The info is right here at GLP, in the archives. I had to handle some really raunchy ground ...meat lately, which was a product of usa, canada, mexico, australia, new zealand. Can't say it was 100% beef, nay. Nice link there, from above. First clue: The CFA has been accused of blocking city firefighters from helping fight the horrific blazes that burnt Victoria and claimed at least 208 lives. Quoting: [link to www.sbs.com.au] Also, the stranded whales and dolphins... where they stranded themselves... King Island. King Island is one of the islands that make up the state of Tasmania, Australia. A few things about King Island from their tourism site. I thought about missing homeless people while reading this. I have thought about many thousands of missing people, and this Island, in Australia. Some of the words and phrases are unusual. King Island is situated in Bass Strait, between Victoria and Tasmania and only a 50 minute flight from either state. The only way you can get to the Island is by plane. Quoting: [link to www.kingisland.org.au] At KING ISLAND SEAFOODS you can watch Donna and Max split oysters - and eat them straight away. Processing takes place at the island’s only meat processing facility and all packaged product carries the Australian Inspected 790 Establishment Number stamp. Cattle are 100% vegetarians. RASSY HABOUR GOURMET MEAT also has available smoked King Island eel and smoked black back salmon as well as carrying a range of fresh meat lines and sausages including marinated King Island lamb. King Island Bakery also produces a traditional hand-made Christmas pudding using a 200-year-old recipe. They were chosen as the official suppliers of "Albert" puddings to support the release of The Magic Pudding animated children's film in December 2000 with several major retailers rating the puddings as the best they had ever tasted. The King Island Imperial 20 is more than just a race. Festivities begin on the Saturday with a 3km warm-up run followed by the Carbo-Feast and Auction of the runners. The weekend activities consumes the lives of many volunteers for at least 6 months of the year. The King Island Dramatic Society and Regional Arts have just completed their 15th annual play which was a huge success. Previous plays include: * 2008 'Phantom of the Music Hall' * 2007 'Wanted. One Body' * 2006 'The True Story of Puss in Boots' * 2005 'Wild Goose Chase' * 2004 'My Giddy Aunt' * 2003 'One for the Pot' * 2002 'Allo Allo' * 2001 'It's Now or Never' * 2000 'Dry Rot' * 1999 'Oliver' * 1998 'Count Dracula' * 1997 'Arsenic & Old Lace' * 1996 'Something's Afoot' * 1995 'Dazzle' * 1994 'Little Shop of Horrors' The 2009 play is "Sailing South (One Way Ticket to Australia" by Judy Prior. $15 per ticket. Mobile Phone Coverage Please note that your mobile phone may not operate on King Island. Only Telstra "Next G" mobile phones will work. -Life is about play |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629820 Sweden 03/07/2009 08:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This fire burnt 1 million acres. Are you aware of Black Thursday in 1851 where 5 million acres burnt? That's right, the Hume Highway from Kilmore to Coburg was on fire. It's what happens. Did anyone look for someone to blame then? And sorry, i've lived here my whole life and have never seen a day like that day's conditions put together. Quoting: Elephant WorkerAnd correct me if i'm wrong, you smug little cunt, but Wilsons Prom is still burning is it not? Crown Land, is it not? Do you know how much of what's been destroyed was Crown Land? Do you even know what Crown Land is? The problem is that people can't process natural disasters anymore, there's always someone shouting conspiracy. The insensitive OP did it while bodies were still in houses. And btw, where do you live? OK, maybe I'm not making myself clear. The media is telling us the fires are the greenies fault. The greenies and global warming. I don't buy it. 1851 - didn't we just get rid of all the local natives and start managing the land ourselves around then ? Hmm, sounds like a dumb generation not knowing to manage the land to prevent devastating fires. 2009 - Land not managed - devastating fires. I'm asking who these greenies are because I don't believe they exist. I'm asking about the politicians who passed the legislation because I don't believe our legislators would leave themselves open to malfeasance accusations by passing this legislation. I'm saying it stinks of a deliberate action, or at best TPTB capitalising on the work of morans. ShaneCMuir sounds like a woo woo to me, he's definately apt at bumping his threads at the right moment, but he's raised an interesting issue. Who knows, maybe he's a spook ? Ok. I'm sorry i snapped at you. I'm way too close to this so i won't comment anymore cause i tend to lose the plot and then regret my actions. I do wonder if that's the aim of the people that stir. And i TOTALLY agree with you about OP. |
firey User ID: 629827 Australia 03/07/2009 08:21 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This fire burnt 1 million acres. Are you aware of Black Thursday in 1851 where 5 million acres burnt? That's right, the Hume Highway from Kilmore to Coburg was on fire. It's what happens. Did anyone look for someone to blame then? And sorry, i've lived here my whole life and have never seen a day like that day's conditions put together. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 629820And correct me if i'm wrong, you smug little cunt, but Wilsons Prom is still burning is it not? Crown Land, is it not? Do you know how much of what's been destroyed was Crown Land? Do you even know what Crown Land is? The problem is that people can't process natural disasters anymore, there's always someone shouting conspiracy. The insensitive OP did it while bodies were still in houses. And btw, where do you live? I don't live in Victoria anymore, but know how hot it used to get there, I remember being there for Ash Wednesday as a kid. I live in the bush in NSW, (I'm not the elephant worker either). Apparantly conditions were heaps worse than ash wednesday. From what I understand of this fire it moved at unprecedented speed, if what I have heard is correct it was 120 km hr, well near to it any way. Thats pretty fucking quick. "Normal" (as in fucking intense high 30s/low 40s C, <7% humidity, high winds in eucalypt forest) crown fires don't move that fast. They might move pretty fast, but not that fast. I saw that footage on 7 (I think) of how fast that fire moved through the grass, and that was the fastest I have ever seen a grass fire move. There are reports of cars being unable to outrun the fire. I reckon that after the RC and whatever other investigations into the fire, the conclusion will be that the atmosphere was so chock full of eucalyptus oil that the air just ignited. Instead of humungous fireballs like a normal sized (ie fucking huge) crown fire, this appears to have been a fireball the size of the entire front. Similar things were said about the Canberra fires and some of those fires in Victoria a couple of years ago. We'll see what the RC says. If that is accurate tho, the fuel reduction would not have helped IMO, well it wouldn't have stopped the firestorm, tho it may have helped in some individual cases. Victoria was tinder dry anyway, I doubt anything would stop crowning after the heatwave in the weeks earlier, and heard fireys down there voice those very fears during and after that heatwave. They said the fuel load was extremely high cos of the recent heat. I was on standby to fly down last week if things went pear shaped on Tuesday, but thankfully they didn't. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 629820 Sweden 03/07/2009 08:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | This fire burnt 1 million acres. Are you aware of Black Thursday in 1851 where 5 million acres burnt? That's right, the Hume Highway from Kilmore to Coburg was on fire. It's what happens. Did anyone look for someone to blame then? And sorry, i've lived here my whole life and have never seen a day like that day's conditions put together. Quoting: firey 629827And correct me if i'm wrong, you smug little cunt, but Wilsons Prom is still burning is it not? Crown Land, is it not? Do you know how much of what's been destroyed was Crown Land? Do you even know what Crown Land is? The problem is that people can't process natural disasters anymore, there's always someone shouting conspiracy. The insensitive OP did it while bodies were still in houses. And btw, where do you live? I don't live in Victoria anymore, but know how hot it used to get there, I remember being there for Ash Wednesday as a kid. I live in the bush in NSW, (I'm not the elephant worker either). Apparantly conditions were heaps worse than ash wednesday. From what I understand of this fire it moved at unprecedented speed, if what I have heard is correct it was 120 km hr, well near to it any way. Thats pretty fucking quick. "Normal" (as in fucking intense high 30s/low 40s C, <7% humidity, high winds in eucalypt forest) crown fires don't move that fast. They might move pretty fast, but not that fast. I saw that footage on 7 (I think) of how fast that fire moved through the grass, and that was the fastest I have ever seen a grass fire move. There are reports of cars being unable to outrun the fire. I reckon that after the RC and whatever other investigations into the fire, the conclusion will be that the atmosphere was so chock full of eucalyptus oil that the air just ignited. Instead of humungous fireballs like a normal sized (ie fucking huge) crown fire, this appears to have been a fireball the size of the entire front. Similar things were said about the Canberra fires and some of those fires in Victoria a couple of years ago. We'll see what the RC says. If that is accurate tho, the fuel reduction would not have helped IMO, well it wouldn't have stopped the firestorm, tho it may have helped in some individual cases. Victoria was tinder dry anyway, I doubt anything would stop crowning after the heatwave in the weeks earlier, and heard fireys down there voice those very fears during and after that heatwave. They said the fuel load was extremely high cos of the recent heat. I was on standby to fly down last week if things went pear shaped on Tuesday, but thankfully they didn't. What you say is true. Unfortunately many people don't want to hear the truth. The cfa have a youtube channel with some good footage of how freaky it was. I gotta wonder if others have actually seen it before commenting. |