To the liberally inclined...

I'm going to stick my neck out here, but the original Liberals were the English political party that championed free trade (mebbe globalism?) and opposed american taxation (boston tea party) etc. anti-slavery - generally pretty nice guys. Not communist. Churchill was a Liberal MP. English Liberalism means what you do is your business, but also what you do affects your neighbour. English liberal party still exists, now called Lib Dems. I always vote for 'em because they're the 3rd party, and if you only have 2 parties you're fucked.

I want to live in a town where no one is starving. And I don't just mean that I don't want to SEE them starve, I want to be reasonably sure that no one in my town is starving. If the local churches and benevolent societies take care of it, fine. Historically they haven't, so I don't think all of us chipping in to buy some groceries is such a horrible thing.

In reality we need laws a regulation to make people behave with money and how they treat people.


Not gonna touch this one.

I think most of us are working and middle class folks who are educated and just want to survive.

You know what I really want? I just want to be left alone to do what I please when I please on my own property; as long as I'm not causing harm to anyone else.

Let's get some things straight here. Being rich does not make a person bad.

What is it that you desire?

I'm trying to understand you.

You know what I really want? I just want to be left alone to do what I please when I please on my own property; as long as I'm not causing harm to anyone else.

What is it that you desire?

I'm trying to understand you.


If the government cannot manage affairs in such a way that everyone who wants a job can have one, then they either have to pay to support the jobless, or admit that they have no purpose and can no longer serve the interests of the people.

And when I say "job," I mean a job that pays enough so that someone can support themselves without any need for government handouts.

I am all for a safety net to catch people who fall on hard times. But I am also for getting them right back on their feet again, and the only thing that will do that is legitimate opportunity, not rhetoric.

You know what I really want? I just want to be left alone to do what I please when I please on my own property; as long as I'm not causing harm to anyone else.


I reckon that's Liberalism.

the way I see it Humanity has a simple choice at every moment:
Service to Self
Service to All

.

Don't want a free lunch. Don't want help and most of us don't ask for it. I just want the rich to stop infringing on my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Really, the rich top 1 percent control the country. We all know it. I really don't give a crap if they want to...do whatever, but they need to quit being so damn greedy.
I believe that has led us to where we are with the economy.

I don't want to get into to much here, but to give you a little background, my father, who is now 55 worked at a company for 24 years making a decent living, they closed down and left them with nothing...so he found another job 200 miles away and tried to keep the house here as my younger brother was trying to finish school, then after two years, that factory closed, after a long bout of unemployment and retraining and what not, he gets another job making less than half of what he was making...well guess what...February..got laid off.
Now he's 55 years old, how many companies do you think are interested? Note that he does not take food stamps or anything...just unemployment for now. He is going to try the retraining route again...but goodness when you see the rich getting richer...and being given tax cuts and breaks and stealing the taxpayers money.
In reality we need laws a regulation to make people behave with money and how they treat people.

the way I see it Humanity has a simple choice at every moment:
Service to Self
Service to All

.


which makes more sense?

the way I see it Humanity has a simple choice at every moment:
Service to Self
Service to All

.


which makes more sense?



Well that is the choice isn't it. I hope to choose Service to All as this serves the Highest Good and is the most Resourceful use of energy from my perspective.

I agree Jack that a functioning society need some degree of safety net.

Helps to keep the peace.

But in your reality, how's that workin out?

You've got folks that have been living of the system for years, and you, a guy that can and is willing to work is still living out of your car.

If the government cannot manage affairs in such a way that everyone who wants a job can have one, then they either have to pay to support the jobless, or admit that they have no purpose and can no longer serve the interests of the people.

And when I say "job," I mean a job that pays enough so that someone can support themselves without any need for government handouts.

I am all for a safety net to catch people who fall on hard times. But I am also for getting them right back on their feet again, and the only thing that will do that is legitimate opportunity, not rhetoric.

The way the capitalist system works is you have to have unemployed people. It doesn't work unless you have that pool of labour. This is not Marxism, this is the way it works. If you want a prosperous society, you have to look after those that are potentially valuable. Repeat - "potentially". You never know what is going to grow, and what isn't. This is entrepreunership - this I think is Liberalism.

"Service to Self
Service to All "

why is it either/or?

"Service to Self
Service to All "

why is it either/or?


It is not either or. Many people have heard of "service to self or service to others" that is incorrect and leads to a bad either or scenerio.

I am talking about Service to All, this includes Self.

What is it that you desire?

I'm trying to understand you.

What is it that you desire?

I'm trying to understand you.


I desire that conservatives begin to understand that their rights end at their fingertips.

In other words, mind your own business and worry about yourself rather than everyone else.

What is it that you desire?

I'm trying to understand you.


I desire that conservatives begin to understand that their rights end at their fingertips.

In other words, mind your own business and worry about yourself rather than everyone else.


I think that is the point of geniune right-wingers. Not the Fox news fucks and the shitheads in Washington mind you. But more the home-grown sort of "Conservatives." They want to mind their own business, but the government comes along to mind their business for them and expects a handout for it.

What? Most conservatives I know do want to tell others how to behave socially, financially and spiritually.

Stem cells, abortion, christianity, etc. I just want to live my life and I could care less what anyone else does with their fetus, cells, or faith. That's on them, and it's not up to me.

I really dont understand what you're saying here. You start out defending capitalism, but end up defending liberalism it looks like.

???

I will say this though, the capitalist system is terminally flawed. Perpetual growth cannot be sustained, and therefore the collapse of the capitalist system is inevitable.

Secondly, I don't see that you have to have unemployed people for a labor pool, simply a class of people looking to improve their station in life. For most people, "getting by" will not be enough, and they will strive to achieve greater things than a tenemant dwelling and government-grade cheese sammiches.

I'm not really defending capitalism, but what I was trying to point out was that capitalism (good or bad) requires a bunch of losers. If a factory needs 300 workers and there's only 200 available, the factory loses out. If there's 400 available, the factory is good, and 100 workers lose out. That's the way the capitalist system works. And if that's the way it works, then it's the responsibility of the capitalist system to look after the 100 workers they didn't need at that time, not least because they may need them at a future time.

I understand what you're saying about - a class of people improving their station in life - but... why should that apply to everyone? If you're a happy bog cleaner, you're a happy bog cleaner.

When you say (tee-hee) "the capitalist system is terminally flawed" - WOW! you are a Marxist! (another tee-hee & no offense)

What? Most conservatives I know do want to tell others how to behave socially, financially and spiritually.

Stem cells, abortion, christianity, etc. I just want to live my life and I could care less what anyone else does with their fetus, cells, or faith. That's on them, and it's not up to me.


Well, you do have a point there. But there are Liberals who do the same thing. Think of some of the fuckin' Vegans out there and that sort, telling me how evil it is to eat meat or wear a fur coat.

My comment was mostly based on the economy though, and how the left and the right think it should be operated.