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Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements

 
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 10:57 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Give it up you Islamotard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

After you you nazio psi warfare wanker, and that 'unreliable' news site is an Israeli in case ...

And No I am not an Islamotard, nice try anyway, it's just the usual boring way you deception experts are deflecting from critics, it doesn't work like you're going to find out..
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 10:58 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
It's true- FreeFlow posts an awful lot of blog articles...
 Quoting: JADR

It's an Israeli news site in case and the content has been confirmed by lots of other sources too.
Next truth twisting try please ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 725405
Australia
07/14/2009 11:00 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Give it up you Islamotard.

After you you nazio psi warfare wanker, and that 'unreliable' news site is an Israeli in case ...

And No I am not an Islamotard, nice try anyway, it's just the usual boring way you deception experts are deflecting from critics, it doesn't work like you're going to find out..
 Quoting: FreeFlow

Like where is the proof that I am a some sort of agent you paranoid fuck, I am just far smarter than you could ever be you Islamotard. Hell I don't need to be paid to tell the truth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 725405
Australia
07/14/2009 11:03 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
It's true- FreeFlow posts an awful lot of blog articles...

It's an Israeli news site in case and the content has been confirmed by lots of other sources too.
Next truth twisting try please ...
 Quoting: FreeFlow

NO IT'S A BLOGGING SITE YOU STUPID MORON LIKE GLP IN AWAY.
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:05 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Like where is the proof that I am a some sort of agent you paranoid fuck, I am just far smarter than you could ever be you Islamotard. Hell I don't need to be paid to tell the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

Can you stay on topic without name calling? No you can't cause it's the tactics they taught you ...

Now address the OP article and your failed 'unreliable' news site claim if you can ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
JADR

User ID: 617358
Australia
07/14/2009 11:05 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
It's true- FreeFlow posts an awful lot of blog articles...

It's an Israeli news site in case and the content has been confirmed by lots of other sources too.
Next truth twisting try please ...
 Quoting: FreeFlow


Really an Israelli news site?

then why is the contact phone number based in the US ?

Randolph Bourne Institute. 1017 El Camino Real, Suite 306, Redwood City, CA 94063. (415) 520-6845.

[link to antiwar.com]

Last Edited by JADR on 07/14/2009 11:06 AM
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:07 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Next truth twisting try please ...

NO IT'S A BLOGGING SITE YOU STUPID MORON LIKE GLP IN AWAY.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

Yeah sure cause that fits into your poopaganda ass where your brain is located ...

[link to www.haaretz.com]
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:08 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Haaretz.com, the online edition of Haaretz Newspaper in Israel, offers real-time breaking news, opinions and analysis from Israel and the Middle East. Haaretz.com provides extensive and in-depth coverage of Israel, the Jewish World and the Middle East, including defense, diplomacy, the Arab-Israeli conflict, the peace process, Israeli politics, Jerusalem affairs, international relations, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, the Israeli business world and Jewish life in Israel and the Diaspora.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
JADR

User ID: 617358
Australia
07/14/2009 11:10 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Next truth twisting try please ...

NO IT'S A BLOGGING SITE YOU STUPID MORON LIKE GLP IN AWAY.

Yeah sure cause that fits into your poopaganda ass where your brain is located ...

[link to www.haaretz.com]
 Quoting: FreeFlow



The article from this thread is not from Haaretz...

Last Edited by JADR on 07/14/2009 11:10 AM
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:10 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Really an Israelli news site?

then why is the contact phone number based in the US ?

Randolph Bourne Institute. 1017 El Camino Real, Suite 306, Redwood City, CA 94063. (415) 520-6845.

[link to antiwar.com]
 Quoting: JADR

Contact us
Tags: Haaretz contact

Haaretz Newspaper, general inquiries: (972) 3 512 1212

Online Edition

Haaretz.com commercial section: (972) 3 513 1410

Haaretz.com editorial department: (972) 3 512 1798

Haaretz.com technical support: (972) 3 512 1733

Email Haaretz.com: [email protected]

Print Edition

Haaretz English Print Edition, editorial department: (972) 3 512 1751

Haaretz English Print Edition-International Herald Tribune, commercial section: (972) 3 512 1749/774

Haaretz English Print Edition-International Herald Tribune, customer service: (972) 3 512 1750

Click here for People and Departments at Haaretz

Email Haaretz English Print Edition: [email protected]
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:11 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Next truth twisting try please ...

NO IT'S A BLOGGING SITE YOU STUPID MORON LIKE GLP IN AWAY.

Yeah sure cause that fits into your poopaganda ass where your brain is located ...

[link to www.haaretz.com]



The article from this thread is not from Haaretz...
 Quoting: JADR


Fuck off idiot, I was responding to the AC725405 expert basher who claimed Haaretz is a blog ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/14/2009 11:12 AM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 629891
United States
07/14/2009 11:11 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
There is a 30% neutral zone in the west bank according to your post Islamotard

Yeah neutral sure you name calling expert, why don't they let the Palis resettle there then?
 Quoting: FreeFlow


Not really neutral, since Palestinians are arrested or killed for entering the closed military zones in occupied territories.
JADR

User ID: 617358
Australia
07/14/2009 11:11 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Really an Israelli news site?

then why is the contact phone number based in the US ?

Randolph Bourne Institute. 1017 El Camino Real, Suite 306, Redwood City, CA 94063. (415) 520-6845.

[link to antiwar.com]

Contact us
Tags: Haaretz contact

Haaretz Newspaper, general inquiries: (972) 3 512 1212

Online Edition

Haaretz.com commercial section: (972) 3 513 1410

Haaretz.com editorial department: (972) 3 512 1798

Haaretz.com technical support: (972) 3 512 1733

Email Haaretz.com: [email protected]

Print Edition

Haaretz English Print Edition, editorial department: (972) 3 512 1751

Haaretz English Print Edition-International Herald Tribune, commercial section: (972) 3 512 1749/774

Haaretz English Print Edition-International Herald Tribune, customer service: (972) 3 512 1750

Click here for People and Departments at Haaretz

Email Haaretz English Print Edition: [email protected]
 Quoting: FreeFlow



Sorry where in Haaretz is the article you posted on this thread ?
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
JADR

User ID: 617358
Australia
07/14/2009 11:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Next truth twisting try please ...

NO IT'S A BLOGGING SITE YOU STUPID MORON LIKE GLP IN AWAY.

Yeah sure cause that fits into your poopaganda ass where your brain is located ...

[link to www.haaretz.com]



The article from this thread is not from Haaretz...


Fuck off idiot, I was responding to the AC expert basher who claimed Haaretz is a blog ...
 Quoting: FreeFlow


No - he never claimed that - he claimed the article form this thread is from a blog - antiwar.com is a blog! Based in the US! AC was right!
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:13 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
No - he never claimed that - he claimed the article form this thread is from a blog - antiwar.com is a blog! Based in the US! AC was right!
 Quoting: JADR

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 725405
7/14/2009 10:52 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements Quote

^^ Nice deflection wankery, what has this all to do with Israel's illegal settlement policy you nazio shill?

[link to www.haaretz.com]
Quoting: FreeFlow

Why have you pointed to a very unreliable news site? let me guess to try to look like the good guy here. Now let me tell you a little bit about clear propaganda, It is easy to debunk and everything pro-Islam is 90% wrong all the time according to most of the worlds msm. How can everyone be wrong and a unreliable blogging site be legit when anyone can write bullshit. The msm are reporting facts not biased extremist Islamic lies now don't fuck around here.
Give it up you Islamotard.
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
JADR

User ID: 617358
Australia
07/14/2009 11:15 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
No - he never claimed that - he claimed the article form this thread is from a blog - antiwar.com is a blog! Based in the US! AC was right!

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 725405
7/14/2009 10:52 AM
Report abusive post
Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements Quote

^^ Nice deflection wankery, what has this all to do with Israel's illegal settlement policy you nazio shill?

[link to www.haaretz.com]
Quoting: FreeFlow

Why have you pointed to a very unreliable news site? let me guess to try to look like the good guy here. Now let me tell you a little bit about clear propaganda, It is easy to debunk and everything pro-Islam is 90% wrong all the time according to most of the worlds msm. How can everyone be wrong and a unreliable blogging site be legit when anyone can write bullshit. The msm are reporting facts not biased extremist Islamic lies now don't fuck around here.
Give it up you Islamotard.
 Quoting: FreeFlow


I think AC was not talking about Haaretz..everyone knows that Harretz is a legit news site.
Dear sir, poor sir, brave sir: You are an experiment by the Creator of the Universe. You are the only creature in the entire Universe who has free will. You are the only one who has to figure out what to do next--and why. Everybody else is a robot, a machine.

"MANE – THECEL – PHARES."
FreeFlow  (OP)

User ID: 456207
Austria
07/14/2009 11:16 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Secret Israeli database reveals full extent of illegal settlement

By Uri Blau
Tags: West Bank, Settlements

Just four years ago, the defense establishment decided to carry out a seemingly elementary task: establish a comprehensive database on the settlements. Brigadier General (res.) Baruch Spiegel, aide to then defense minister Shaul Mofaz, was put in charge of the project. For over two years, Spiegel and his staff, who all signed a special confidentiality agreement, went about systematically collecting data, primarily from the Civil Administration.

One of the main reasons for this effort was the need to have credible and accessible information at the ready to contend with legal actions brought by Palestinian residents, human rights organizations and leftist movements challenging the legality of construction in the settlements and the use of private lands to establish or expand them. The painstakingly amassed data was labeled political dynamite.

The defense establishment, led by Defense Minister Ehud Barak, steadfastly refused to publicize the figures, arguing, for one thing, that publication could endanger state security or harm Israel's foreign relations. Someone who is liable to be particularly interested in the data collected by Spiegel is George Mitchell, President Barack Obama's special envoy to the Middle East, who came to Israel this week for his first visit since his appointment. It was Mitchell who authored the 2001 report that led to the formulation of the road map, which established a parallel between halting terror and halting construction in the settlements.
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The official database, the most comprehensive one of its kind ever compiled in Israel about the territories, was recently obtained by Haaretz. Here, for the first time, information the state has been hiding for years is revealed. An analysis of the data reveals that, in the vast majority of the settlements - about 75 percent - construction, sometimes on a large scale, has been carried out without the appropriate permits or contrary to the permits that were issued. The database also shows that, in more than 30 settlements, extensive construction of buildings and infrastructure (roads, schools, synagogues, yeshivas and even police
stations) has been carried out on private lands belonging to Palestinian West Bank residents.

Click here to view the secret Defense Ministry database on illegal construction in the territories. It should be noted that the information is given in Hebrew

The data, it should be stressed, do not refer only to the illegal outposts (information about which was included in the well-known report authored by attorney Talia Sasson and published in March 2005), but to the very heart of the settlement enterprise. Among them are veteran ideological settlements like Alon Shvut (established in 1970 and currently home to 3,291 residents, including Rabbi Yoel Bin Nun); Ofra (established in 1975, home to 2,708 residents, including
former Yesha Council spokesman Yehoshua Mor Yosef and media personalities Uri Elitzur and Hagai Segal); and Beit El (established in 1977, population 5,308, including Hagai Ben-Artzi, brother of Sara Netanyahu). Also included are large settlements founded primarily for economic motives, such as the city of Modi'in Illit (established in 1990 and now home to 36,282 people), or Givat Ze'ev outside Jerusalem (founded in 1983, population 11,139), and smaller settlements such as Nokdim near Herodion (established in 1982, population 851, including MK Avigdor Lieberman).

The information contained in the database does not conform to the state's official position, as presented, for instance, on the Foreign Ministry Web site, which states: "Israel's actions relating to the use and allocation of land under its administration are all taken with strict regard to the rules and norms of international law - Israel does not requisition private land for the establishment of settlements." Since in many of the settlements, it was the government itself, primarily through the Ministry of Construction and Housing, that was responsible for construction, and since many of the building violations involve infrastructure, roads, public buildings and so on, the official data also demonstrate government responsibility for the unrestrained planning and lack of enforcement of regulations in the territories. The extent of building violations also attests to the poor functioning of
the Civil Administration, the body in charge of permits and supervision of construction in the territories.

According to the 2008 data from the Central Bureau of Statistics, approximately 290,000 Jews live in the 120 official settlements and dozens of outposts established throughout the West Bank over the past 41 years.

"Nothing was done in hiding," says Pinchas Wallerstein, director-general of the Yesha Council of settlements and a leading figure in the settlement project. "I'm not familiar with any [building] plans that were not the initiative of the Israeli government." He says that if the owners of private land upon which settlements are built were to complain and the court were to accept their complaint, then the structures would have to be moved somewhere else. "This has been the Yesha
Council's position for the past years," he says.

You'd never know it from touring several of the settlements in which massive construction has taken place on private Palestinian lands. Entire neighborhoods built without permits or on private lands are inseparable parts of the settlements. The sense of dissonance only intensifies when you find that municipal offices, police and fire stations were also built upon and currently operate on lands that belong to Palestinians.

On Misheknot Haro'im Street in the Kochav Yaakov settlement, a young mother is carrying her two children home. "I've lived here for six years," she says, sounding surprised when told that her entire neighborhood was built upon private Palestinian land. "I know that there's some small area in the community that is in dispute, but I never heard that this is private land." Would she have built her home on this land had she known this from the start? "No," she answers. "I wouldn't have kicked anyone out of his home."

Not far away, at the settlement's large and unkempt trailer site, which is also built on private land, a young newlywed couple is walking to the bus stop: 21-year-old Aharon and his 19-year-old wife, Elisheva. They speak nearly perfect Hebrew despite having grown up in the United States and having settled permanently in Israel just a few months ago, after Aharon completed his army service in the ultra-Orthodox Nahal unit. Now he is studying computers at Machon Lev in Jerusalem. Asked why they chose to live here of all places, they list three reasons: It's close to Jerusalem, it's cheap and it's in the territories. In that order.

The couple pay their rent, NIS 550 a month, to the settlement secretariat. As new immigrants, they are still exempt from having to pay the arnona municipal tax. Aharon doesn't look upset when he hears that his trailer sits on private land. It doesn't really interest him. "I don't care what the state says, the Torah says that the entire Land of Israel is ours."

A complicated problem
Even today, more than two years after concluding his official role, Baruch Spiegel remains loyal to the establishment. In a conversation, he notes several times that he signed a confidentiality agreement and so is not willing to go into the details of the work for which he was responsible. He was appointed by Shaul Mofaz to handle several issues about which Israel had given a commitment to the United States, including improving conditions for Palestinians whose lives were adversely affected by the separation fence, and supervision of IDF soldiers at the checkpoints.

Two years ago, Haaretz reporter Amos Harel revealed that the main task given Spiegel was to establish and maintain an up-to-date database on the settlement enterprise. This was after it became apparent that the United States, as well as Peace Now's settlement monitoring team, was in possession of much more precise information about settlement construction than was the defense establishment, which up to then had relied mostly on information collected by Civil Administration inspectors. The old database had many gaps in it, which was largely a consequence of the establishment preferring not to know exactly what was going on in this area.

Spiegel's database contains written information backed up by aerial photos and layers of GIS (Geographic Information Systems) data that includes information on the status of the land and the official boundaries of each settlement. "The work took two and a half years," says Spiegel. "It was done in order to check the status of the settlements and the outposts and to achieve the greatest possible accuracy in terms of the database: the land status, the legal status, the sector boundaries, the city building plan, government decisions, lands whose ownership is unclear. It was full-time, professional work done with a professional team of legal experts, planning people, GIS experts. And I hope that this work continues, because it is very vital. One has to know what's going on there and make decisions accordingly."

Who is keeping track of all of this now?

"I suppose it's the Civil Administration."

Why was there no database like this before your appointment?

"I don't know how much of a focus there was on doing it."

Why do you think the state is not publicizing the data?

"It's a sensitive and complex subject and there are all kinds of considerations, political and security-related. There were questions about the public's right to know, the freedom of information law. You should ask the officials in charge."

What are the sensitive matters?

"It's no secret that there are violations, that there are problems having to do with land. It's a complicated problem."

Is there also a problem for the country's image?

"I didn't concern myself with image. I was engaged in Sisyphean work to ensure that, first of all, they'll know what exists and what's legal and what's not legal and what the degree of illegality is, whether it involves the takeover of private Palestinian land or something in the process of obtaining proper building permits. Our job was to do the meticulous work of going over all the settlements and outposts that existed then - We found what we found and passed it on."

Do you think that this information should be published?

"I think they've already decided to publish the simpler part, concerning areas of jurisdiction. There are things that are more sensitive. It's no secret that there are problems, and it's impossible to do something illegal and say that it's legal. I can't elaborate, because I'm still bound to maintain confidentiality."

Dror Etkes, formerly the coordinator of Peace Now's settlement monitoring project and currently director of the Land Advocacy Project for the Yesh Din organization, says, "The government's ongoing refusal to reveal this material on the pretext of security reasons is yet another striking example of the way in which the state exploits its authority to reduce the information at the citizens' disposal, when they wish to formulate intelligent positions based on facts rather than lies and half-truths."

Following the initial exposure of the material, the Movement for Freedom of Information and Peace Now requested that the Defense Ministry publish the database, in accordance with the Freedom of Information law. The Defense Ministry refused. "This is a computerized database that includes detailed information, in different cross-sections, regarding the Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria," the Defense Ministry said in response. "The material was collected by the defense establishment for its purposes and includes sensitive information. The ministry was asked to allow a review of the material in accordance with the Freedom of Information law, and after consideration of the request, decided not to hand over the material. The matter is pending and is the subject of a petition before the Administrative Affairs Court in Tel Aviv."

Ofra, Elon Moreh, Beit El

The database surveys settlement after settlement alphabetically. For each entry, it notes the source of the settlement's name and the form of settlement there (urban community, local council, moshav, kibbutz, etc.); its organizational affiliation (Herut, Amana, Takam, etc.), the number of inhabitants, pertinent government decisions, the official bodies to which the land was given, the status of the land upon which the settlement was built (state land, private Palestinian or Jewish land, etc.), a survey of the illegal outposts built in proximity to the settlement and to what extent the valid building plans have been executed. Beneath each entry, highlighted in red, is information on the extent of construction that has been carried out without permission and its exact location in the settlement.

Among all the revelations in the official data, it's quite fascinating to see what was written about Ofra, a veteran Gush Emunim settlement. According to a recent B'tselem report, most of the settlement's developed area sits on private Palestinian land and therefore falls into the category of an illegal outpost that is supposed to be evacuated. The Yesha Council responded to the B'tselem report, saying that the "facts" in it are "completely baseless and designed to present a false picture. The inhabitants of Ofra are careful to respect the rights of the Arab landowners, with whom they reached an agreement regarding the construction of the neighborhoods as well as an agreement that enables the private landowners to continue to work their lands."

But the information in the database about Ofra leaves no room for doubt: "The settlement does not conform to valid building plans. A majority of the construction in the community is on registered private lands without any legal basis whatsoever and no possibility of [converting the land to non-private use]." The database also gives a detailed description of where construction was carried out in Ofra without permits: "The original part of the settlement: [this includes] more than 200 permanent residential structures, agricultural structures, public structures, lots, roads and orchards in the old section of the settlement (in regard to which Plan 221 was submitted, but not advanced due to a problem of ownership)." After mentioning 75 trailers and temporary shelters in two groups within the old settlement, the database mentions the Ramat Zvi neighborhood, south of the original settlement: "There are about 200 permanent structures as well as lots being developed for additional permanent construction, all trespassing on private lands." Yesha Council chairman Danny Dayan responds: "I am not familiar with that data."

Another place where the data reveals illegal construction is Elon Moreh, one of the most famous settlements in the territories. In June 1979, several residents of the village of Rujib, southeast of Nablus, petitioned the High Court, asking it to annul the appropriation order for 5,000 dunams of land in their possession, that had been designated for the construction of the settlement. In court, the government argued, as it did regularly at the time, that the construction of the settlement was required for military needs, and therefore the appropriation orders were legal. But in a statement on behalf of the petitioners, former chief of staff Haim Bar-Lev asserted that, "In my best professional judgment, Elon Moreh does not contribute to Israel's security."

The High Court, relying on this statement and the statements of the original core group of settlers of Elon Moreh, who also argued that this was not a temporary settlement established for security purposes, but a permanent settlement, instructed the IDF to evacuate the settlement and return the lands to their owners. The immediate consequence of the ruling was to find an alternative site for construction of the settlement, on lands previously defined as "state lands." Following this ruling, Israel stopped officially using military injunctions in the territories for the purpose of establishing new settlements.

The lands that were originally taken for the purpose of building Elon Moreh were returned to their Palestinian owners, but according to the database, also in the new site where the settlement was built, called Har Kabir, "most of the construction was done without approved, detailed plans, and some of the construction involved trespassing on private lands. As for the state lands in the settlement, a detailed plan, no. 107/1, was prepared and published on 16/7/99, but has yet to go into effect."

The Shomron regional council, which includes Elon Moreh, said in response: "All the neighborhoods in the settlement were planned, and some were also built, by the State of Israel through the Housing Ministry. The residents of Elon Moreh did not trespass at all and any allegation of this kind is also false. The State of Israel is tasked with promoting and approving the building plans in the settlement, as everywhere else in the country, and as for the plans that supposedly have yet to receive final validity, just like many other communities throughout Israel, where the processes continue for decades, this does not delay the plans, even if the planning is not complete or being done in tandem."

Beit El, another veteran settlement, was also, according to the database, established "on private lands seized for military purposes (In fact, the settlement was expanded on private lands, by means of trespassing in the northern section of the settlement) and on state lands that were appropriated during the Jordanian period (the Maoz Tzur neighborhood in the south of the settlement)."

According to the official data, construction in Beit El in the absence of approved plans includes the council office buildings and the "northern neighborhood (Beit El Bet) that was built for the most part on private lands. The neighborhood comprises widespread construction, public buildings and new ring roads (about 80 permanent buildings and trailers); the northeastern neighborhood (between Jabal Artis and the old part of the settlement) includes about 20 permanent residential buildings, public buildings (including a school building), 40 trailers and an industrial zone (10 industrial buildings). The entire compound is located on private land and has no plan attached."

Moshe Rosenbaum, head of the Beit El local council, responds: "Unfortunately, you are cooperating with the worst of Israel's enemies and causing tremendous damage to the whole country."

'One giant bluff'

Ron Nahman, mayor of Ariel, was re-elected to a sixth term in the last elections. Nahman is a long-time resident of the territories and runs a fascinating heterogeneous city. Between a visit to the trailer site where evacuees from Netzarim are housed and a stop at a shop that sells pork and other non-kosher products, mostly to the city's large Russian population, Nahman complains about the halting of construction in his city and about his battles with the Civil
Administration over every building permit.

Ariel College, Nahman's pride and joy, is also mentioned in the database: "The area upon which Ariel College was built was not regulated in terms of planning." It further explains that the institution sits on two separate plots and the new plan has not yet been discussed. Nahman confirms this, but says the planning issue was recently resolved.

When told that dozens of settlements include construction on private lands, he is not surprised. "That's possible," he says. The fact that in three-quarters of the settlements, there has been construction that deviates from the approved plans doesn't surprise him either. "All the complaints should be directed at the government, not at us," he says. "As for the small and communal settlements, they were planned by the Housing Ministry's Rural Building Administration. The larger communities are planned by the ministry's district offices. It's all the government. Sometimes the Housing Ministry is responsible for budgetary construction, which is construction out of the state budget. In the Build Your Own Home program, the state pays a share of the development costs and the rest is paid for by the individual. All of these things are one giant bluff. Am I the one who planned the settlements? It was Sharon, Peres, Rabin, Golda, Dayan."

The database provides information attesting to a failure to adhere to planning guidelines in the territories. For example, an attempt to determine the status of the land of the Argaman settlement in the Jordan Rift Valley found that "the community was apparently established on the basis of an appropriation order from 1968 that was not located." About Mevo Horon, the database says: "The settlement was built without a government decision on lands that are mostly private within a closed area in the Latrun enclave (Area Yod). There was an allocation
for the area to the WZO from 1995, which was issued as in a deviation from authority, apparently on the basis of a political directive." In the Tekoa settlement, trailers were leased to the IDF "and installed contrary to the area's designation according to a detailed plan? and some also deviate from the boundaries of the plan."

Most of the territories of the West Bank have not been annexed to Israel, and therefore regulations for the establishment and construction of communities there differ from those that apply within Israel proper. The Sasson report, which dealt with the illegal outposts, was based in part on data collected by Spiegel, and listed the criteria necessary for the establishment of a new settlement in the territories:
1. The Israeli government issued a decision to establish the settlement
2. The settlement has a defined jurisdictional area
3. The settlement has a detailed, approved outline plan
4. The settlement lies on state land or on land that was purchased by Israelis and registered under their name in the Land Registry.

According to the database, the state gave the World Zionist Organization (WZO) and/or the Construction and Housing Ministry authorization to plan and build on most of the territories upon which the settlements were constructed. These bodies allocated the land to those who eventually carried out the actual construction of the settlement: Sometimes it was the Settlement Division of the WZO and other times it was the Construction and Housing Ministry itself, sometimes through the Rural Building Administration. In several cases, settlements were built by Amana, the Gush Emunim settlement arm. Another body cited in the database as having received allocations and being responsible for construction in some of the settlements is Gush Emunim's Settler National Fund.

Talmud Torah
@Text: Regular schools and religious schools (Talmudei Torah) have also been built on Palestinian lands. According to the database, in the southern part of the Ateret settlement, "15 structures were built outside of state lands, which are used for the Kinor David yeshiva. There are also new ring roads and a special security area that is illegal." Kinor David is the name of a "yeshiva high school with a musical framework." The sign at the entrance says the yeshiva was built by the Amana settlement movement, the Mateh Binyamin local council and the
WZO settlement division.

The data regarding Michmash also make it very clear that part of the settlement was built on "private lands via trespassing." For example, "In the center of the settlement (near the main entrance) is a trailer neighborhood that serves as a Talmud Torah and other buildings (30 trailers) on private land."

On a winter's afternoon, a bunch of young children were playing there, one of them wearing a shirt printed with the words "We won't forget and we won't forgive." There were no teachers in sight. A young woman in slacks, taking her baby to the doctor, stopped for a moment to chat. She moved here from Ashkelon because her husband's parents are among the settlement's founders. When her son is old enough for preschool, she won't send him to the Talmud Torah. Not because it sits on private land, but just because that's not the type of education she wants for him. "I don't think there's been construction on private land here," she said. "I don't think there ought to be, either."

In the Psagot settlement, where there has also been a lot of construction on private land, it's easy to discern the terracing style typical of Palestinian agriculture in the region. According to the database, in Psagot there are "agricultural structures (a winery and storehouses) to the east of the settlement, close to the grapevines cultivated by the settlement by trespassing." During a visit here, the winery was abandoned. Its owner, Yaakov Berg, acquired land from the Israel Lands Administration near the Migron outpost and a new winery and regional visitors' center is currently under construction there.

"The vineyards are located in Psagot," says Berg, who is busy with the preparations for the new site. From the unfinished observation deck one can see an enormous quarry in the mountains across the way. "If I built a bathroom here without permission from the Civil Administration, within 15 minutes, a helicopter would be here and I'd be told that it was prohibited," Berg complains. "And right here there's an illegal Palestinian quarry that continues to operate."

The politicians did it

Kobi Bleich, spokesperson for the Ministry of Construction and Housing: "The ministry participates in subsidizing the development costs of settlements in Priority Area A, in accordance with decisions of the Israeli government. Development works are carried out by the regional councils, and only after the ministry has ascertained that the new neighborhood is located within an approved city plan. This applies throughout Israel as well as in the areas over the Green Line. Let me emphasize that the ministry's employees are charged with implementing the policies of the Israeli government. All of the actions in the past were
done solely in keeping with the decisions of the political echelon."

Danny Poleg, spokesperson for the Judea and Samaria district of the Israel Police: "The issue of the construction of police facilities is the responsibility of the Ministry of Internal Security, so any questions should be addressed to them."

The Internal Security Ministry spokesman responds: "And for construction by the police is allocated by the Israel Lands Administration in coordination with the Internal Security Ministry. There is no police station in Modi'in Ilit, but a rapid response post for the local residents on land allocated by the local authority. The land in Givat Ze'ev was allocated by the local council and the police station is located within the municipality. The road to the police headquarters was built by the Housing and Construction ministry and is maintained by the local council."

Avi Roeh, head of the Mateh Binyamin regional council (whose jurisdiction includes the settlements of Ofra, Kochav Yaakov, Ateret, Ma'aleh Michmash and Psagot): "The Mateh Binyamin regional council, like the neighboring councils in Judea and Samaria, is coping with political decisions regarding the manner of the the communities' expansion. However, this does not remove the need for proper planning procedures in order to expand the settlements in an orderly manner and in accordance with the law."

For its response, the WZO sent a thick booklet, a copy of which was previously sent to attorney Talia Sasson in response to her report. "Settlement in Judea and Samaria, as in Israel, has been accompanied by the preparation of regional master plans," says the booklet. "Steering committees from various government ministries, the Civil Administration and the municipal authorities were involved in the preparation of these plans? The (settlement) department worked solely on lands that were given to it by contract from the authorities in the Civil Administration and all the lands that were allocated to it by contract were properly
allocated."

The Civil Administration, which was first asked for a response regarding the database more than a month ago, has yet to reply

[link to www.haaretz.com]
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 11:17 AM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Sorry freeflow you cannot ban facts
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 11:19 AM
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Here's the original article for you deflection tactickers:

[link to www.ipsnews.net]

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/14/2009 11:20 AM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 11:23 AM
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Sorry freeflow you cannot ban facts
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

Your post has no relation to what I ever said or did, you're losing it clearly.

What do you say that original article was only reposted on that blog?
It came from a news site in case you want to bury this.

Now the next failing discrediting try please ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/14/2009 11:25 AM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 11:55 AM
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There is a 30% neutral zone in the west bank according to your post Islamotard

Yeah neutral sure you name calling expert, why don't they let the Palis resettle there then?

What and let these terrorist come closer to Israel just to launch more rockets. Fuck you Islamotard.
Also neutral zone = no mans land and it has been that way in west bank since after WW3.

Israel has done nothing wrong because they have left a large gap in between them and the rest of Gaza. That is not a crime you Islamotard.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

what kind of moron uses the word "islamotard"?

some peoples children
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 12:05 PM
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bump
Pondlady02
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07/14/2009 12:19 PM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
By: Mel Frykberg on: 14.07.2009 [05:35 ]

by Mel Frykberg, July 14, 2009

RAMALLAH – The Israeli Foreign Ministry’s concern over an "unusually harsh statement" by the European Commission over Israel’s settlement policy indicates a growing unease between Israel and the EU.

The European Commission (EC), the executive arm of the EU, said that Israel’s settlement policy in the West Bank was strangling the Palestinian economy and forcing Palestinians there to become more dependent on foreign aid.

"It is the European taxpayers who pay most of the price of this dependence," read the July 6 EC statement.

According to the EC, expropriation of fertile Palestinian land for the settlements, the settlers-only bypass roads which serve them, and the hundreds of West Bank checkpoints manned by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have stunted Palestinian economic growth.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) states that $509 million is spent annually on maintaining Israeli settler roads and checkpoints. The bypass roads are meant to make it easier and quicker for Israeli settlers to reach Israel proper, while the checkpoints ostensibly serve their security.

OCHA released a report in June saying that nearly 30 percent of the West Bank, which under international law belongs to the Palestinians, has been expropriated by the Israelis as closed military zones and for nature reserves.

Together with Israel’s more than 100 illegal settlements – home to approximately 500,000 settlers in East Jerusalem and the West Bank – approximately 40 percent of the territory has been taken by Israel.

The West Bank is divided into area A, which falls under Palestinian control, area B, which falls under both Israeli military and Palestinian civil control, and area C, which falls under full Israeli control.

Palestinians pay a high price by losing land while facing difficulties with travel and accessing their agricultural fields. Many are regularly denied building permits by the Israeli authorities to build in areas B and C.

They therefore build without the requisite permits and then face the possibility of being evicted and having their homes demolished by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). They also struggle to get permits to connect to electricity and water infrastructure.

OCHA says that during the last few months it has seen a tightening of restrictions in areas in and around the West Bank’s Jordan Valley, as well as the Bethlehem and Hebron areas.

The herding and farming communities that reside in Israel’s self-declared military zones in these regions face particular hardships, with their homes and livelihoods now under threat. Many had lost grazing land to make way for settlement enlargement and security. Now they face eviction.

About 300 Palestinians, including 170 children, received evacuation and demolition orders from the IDF in May alone.

Osama Jarrer, deputy director of the Palestinian Authority’s Ministry of Agriculture in the Hebron governorate in the southern West Bank, said many farmers there had been forced to reduce their flocks.

"Because hundreds of farmers are in the same position there is a glut of livestock, so they sell at a reduced price. But even when they sell to get out of the business more than half of them will not be able to pay their fodder and concentrated feed debts," Jarrer told IPS.

The situation of Hebron’s 3,000 farmers, and their 30,000 dependents, has been aggravated by rising international fodder prices and a water shortage.

The water shortage is due to inequitable water distribution between Palestinians and Israeli setters and a drought that has gripped this part of the Middle East for several years.

Meanwhile, as Palestinians experience the practical consequences of Israel’s West Bank settlement policy on the ground, Israel and the U.S. continue to haggle over the theoretical intricacies in capitals abroad.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak met with U.S. Middle East Envoy George Mitchell in London a fortnight ago, the latest in a round of meetings over the disputed settlements.

With a broad smile and much fanfare Barak announced to the assembled media that Israel would be dismantling 23 outposts in the West Bank in the near future. The outposts comprise a small number of caravans, often unattached to water and electricity. They are illegal under Israeli law.

Barak failed to mention the settlements in the West Bank. These range from several hundred residents to small cities with tens of thousands of settlers and associated infrastructure. They are illegal under international law.

One of the small outposts slated for evacuation is Migron, near the central West Bank city Ramallah, after Israeli rights group Peace Now petitioned the Israeli High Court of Justice.

However, the state asked for a year’s extension before the evacuation would take place, leaving plenty of time for facts on the ground to be established.

The 50 families to be evacuated are to be moved to new homes being built in the nearby Adam settlement, a mere reshuffling of settler numbers.

Moreover, according to documents presented to the court, aside from requesting building permits for 50 new housing units in Adam, Barak last month also approved detailed planning for constructing an initial 200 housing units. These will be part of the general construction blueprint for an additional 1,450 units in Adam.

Migron was built illegally on privately owned Palestinian land in 2002. In an earlier petition in 2006 an Israeli court acknowledged the Palestinian ownership and the illegality of the outpost.

But it will only be evacuated in 2010 in theory, and the chances of the settlers leaving voluntarily are close to nil.

Peace Now says the Israeli government is building an additional 73,300 illegal housing units in the West Bank.

Barak’s manner of dealing with the small outpost of Migron portends poorly for Israel’s future evacuation of larger settlements, and it represents a huge disparity between Israeli diplomacy and the reality on the ground.

(Inter Press Service)

[link to www.ipsnews.net]

[link to original.antiwar.com]
 Quoting: FreeFlow

How can the Jews, who are back on THEIR ANCESTRAL LAND, be "illegally" building settlements??? It is the arabs/muslims who are the illegal aliens!! Here is a quote from the grand mullah/mufti of Jerusalem, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, back in 1937 to the Peel Commission. "Ther is NO country of palestine. It is a term the Zionists invented. OUR country was for centuries a part of Syria."
I've said it before and will say it again. The arabs/muslims occupying JEWISH LAND, in the West Bank and Gaza didn't even begin calling themselves "palestinians" until the 1970's!!! Even old arafat, who is now in the and of overcooked pork chops was an Egyptian!! Yep, he was born in Egypt. When questioned about his erroneous"palestinian" handle, he said "If I am willing to die for what I beleive, don't you think I would lie?" Boom, baby, boom!!! Slammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 12:23 PM
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How can the Jews, who are back on THEIR ANCESTRAL LAND, be "illegally" building settlements??? It is the arabs/muslims who are the illegal aliens!! Here is a quote from the grand mullah/mufti of Jerusalem, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, back in 1937 to the Peel Commission. "Ther is NO country of palestine. It is a term the Zionists invented. OUR country was for centuries a part of Syria."
I've said it before and will say it again. The arabs/muslims occupying JEWISH LAND, in the West Bank and Gaza didn't even begin calling themselves "palestinians" until the 1970's!!! Even old arafat, who is now in the and of overcooked pork chops was an Egyptian!! Yep, he was born in Egypt. When questioned about his erroneous"palestinian" handle, he said "If I am willing to die for what I beleive, don't you think I would lie?" Boom, baby, boom!!! Slammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Quoting: Pondlady02 719487

Looks like poor little ff just got owned :)
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 12:24 PM
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^^ Yeah fondlady00, sure that's why 'Palestine' was mention centuries of years ago.

By you flawed logic most countries wouldn't have a right to exist even ...

Next try please!

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/14/2009 12:26 PM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 12:26 PM
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Looks like poor little ff just got owned :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405

You wish?

It's you who got actually owned with the side-tracking 'oh it's from a blog' non argument ...
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 12:26 PM
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I believe that the world is changing one day at a time and more and more countries will eventually see the light and stop the insanity that's happening in Israel.

Yesterday England imposed some form of restrictions and today we've got the EU who's speaking out.

Eventually all will side with the Palestinians.
 Quoting: whisprgently


What do you mean "eventually"?
It's already that way.
As usual the world turns against Jews, nothing new here, move along.
Anonymous Coward
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07/14/2009 12:27 PM
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How can the Jews, who are back on THEIR ANCESTRAL LAND, be "illegally" building settlements??? It is the arabs/muslims who are the illegal aliens!! Here is a quote from the grand mullah/mufti of Jerusalem, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, back in 1937 to the Peel Commission. "Ther is NO country of palestine. It is a term the Zionists invented. OUR country was for centuries a part of Syria."
I've said it before and will say it again. The arabs/muslims occupying JEWISH LAND, in the West Bank and Gaza didn't even begin calling themselves "palestinians" until the 1970's!!! Even old arafat, who is now in the and of overcooked pork chops was an Egyptian!! Yep, he was born in Egypt. When questioned about his erroneous"palestinian" handle, he said "If I am willing to die for what I beleive, don't you think I would lie?" Boom, baby, boom!!! Slammer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725405


Well said!
FreeFlow  (OP)

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07/14/2009 12:28 PM
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What do you mean "eventually"?
It's already that way.
As usual the world turns against Jews, nothing new here, move along.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 725470

This is about Israel, why are you connecting it with all Jews of who only one third lives in Isreal?

And sure poor poor innocent Israel that never did anything wrong ...

Last Edited by FreeFlow on 07/14/2009 12:29 PM
I am here to challenge your indoctrinated false belief that flaming queens don't use shovels ...
Lunaticus Maximus

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07/14/2009 12:35 PM
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Re: Israel and EU Clash Over Settlements
Frankly speaking....is it just me or does anyone really give a flying F$!K about Israel and Palestine any longer?
 Quoting: Family Guy

The fundamentalists are constantly trying to drag the rest of us in to their world of hate and deception. Misery loves company and they are not happy until everybody is exterminated. They are evil incarnate and are truly anti-human.
Tat Tvam Asi





GLP