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!!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???

 
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!!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF
THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE?
By Sandy Fiedler



How did we get the idea that a secret, imminent, pre-tribulation rapture will save the church from this evil world? Despite being reared in southern fundamentalist churches that taught this doctrine, I never could fully grasp it, although I tried.

While reading THE RAPTURE CULT by Robert L. Pierce (Signal Point Press, 138 Cunningham Lane, Signal Mountain TN 37377; $3.00ea), I found missing pieces of this puzzling doctrine.

Following is a brief explanation, summarized from the book, describing how we got the doctrine.

To understand, we must return to the 19th century British Isles. In 1830 in Port Glasgow, Scotland, Margaret Macdonald expressed her belief that scripture taught that Christians would be raptured, or translated, from the earth before the Great Tribulation. This is the first time that anyone in Christian history had distinguished two stages of the Second Coming: the first stage, in which Christians are taken out, and the second stage, in which Jesus returns to earth.

Two religious sects in Britain took up Margaret’s idea. One was the Catholic Apostolic Church headed by Edward Irving (1792-1834). This sect believed that because the Second Coming was imminent, they had the gifts of the spirit, such as prophecy and speaking in tongues, as the apostles did.

The other group that adopted Margaret Macdonald’s idea was the Brethren or Plymouth Brethren organized by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882). Darby was educated as a lawyer, became an Anglican priest in 1826, but went on to found the Brethren in 1830. Darby visited the Macdonald home in 1830 and first presented the new pre-tribulation rapture doctrine soon thereafter. The new doctrine was not received unanimously.

"The Roots of Fundamentalism," by Ernest R. Sandeen, in discussing the history of the Brethren, says that Darby introduced the idea of a secret rapture of the church and a gap in prophetic fulfillment between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel. These beliefs became basic to the system of theology known as dispensationalism.

From 1862 to 1877, Darby lived in and traveled throughout the United States and Canada, spreading his message. He was a very appealing speaker and also intolerant to criticism. At first he tried to win members of existing Protestant congregations to his sect, but met with little success. He then spread his end-times message to influential clergymen and laymen in churches in major cities without insisting they leave their denominations.

Two of his converts were James Hall Brookes, pastor of the Walnut Street Presbyterian Church in St. Louis and Adoniram Judson Gordon, pastor of Clarendon St. Baptist Church in Boston. These two men became leaders of the movement which spread the doctrine throughout the northeast and Midwest during the last quarter of the 19th century. Dwight L. Moody also accepted the doctrine.

From 1883-1897, each summer at Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, James H. Brookes led conferences which spread the doctrine very successfully to conservative church leaders of America who were concerned about the liberal influence of "higher criticism" that was making inroads into churches. The new message spread from the leaders down to the local congregations.

In 1897 there was a split of conference participants into two groups: a pro-Darby faction led by Arno C. Gaebelein and Cyrus I. Scofield, and an anti-Darby faction led by Robert Cameron. A five-year "paper war," in which each side wrote articles blasting the other side, ended in a win by the pro-Darby forces.

Many of the anti-Darby forces simply retired from the scene to avoid controversy or died of old age without a new line of advocates to replace them.



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Last Edited by Account Deleted by User on 06/22/2014 09:23 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
the correct term is not rapture it is resurrection. Get it right or be wrong. See how easy that works?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
I pray to simply die and wake in His presence!
BadMoonRising

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01/25/2010 04:33 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Who the hell is WE?

keep me well out of your retarded religious crap.
"What The HELL Is Going On?..."

[link to www.worldending2012.org]
Full Circle

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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
How did anyone get the idea that there is ANY rapture??
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
propaganda pushers, fear mongers
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
propaganda pushers, fear mongers
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873487

I am sorry you are afraid. Put your trust in Jesus Christ while you still have breath in your body.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
propaganda pushers, fear mongers

I am sorry you are afraid. Put your trust in Jesus Christ while you still have breath in your body.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873970



I'm not afriad, the church (Religion) is a propaganda pushing machine. They don't care for the well being of human-kind. It's all about the $$$$$$$

I've know Christ the King before I was born.
mathetes

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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
the correct term is not rapture it is resurrection. Get it right or be wrong. See how easy that works?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 309533

Actually the Latin term rapture is translated form the Greek harpazo which means catch up,catch away

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up(harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
propaganda pushers, fear mongers

I am sorry you are afraid. Put your trust in Jesus Christ while you still have breath in your body.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873970


I'd be VERY careful if I were you!! Here's a message from The Allies of Humanity taken from:

[link to www.alliesofhumanity.org]

It is our understanding that the true Jesus will not return
to the world, for he is working in concert with the Unseen
Ones and serves humanity and other races as well. The one
who will come claiming his name will come from the Greater
Community. He will be one who is born and bred for this purpose by the collectives that are in the world today. He will appear human and will have significant abilities compared to what you can accomplish at this moment. He will seem completely
altruistic. He will be able to perform acts that will
engender either fear or great reverence. He will be able to
project images of angels, demons or whatever his superiors
wish to expose you to. He will seem to have spiritual powers.
Yet he will come from the Greater Community, and he will be
part of the collective. And he will engender allegiance to follow
him. Eventually, for those who cannot follow him, he will
encourage their alienation or their destruction.
The visitors do not care how many of your people are
destroyed so long as they have a primary allegiance amongst
the majority. Therefore, the visitors will focus on those fundamental
ideas that give them this authority and influence.
A Second Coming, then, is being prepared by your visitors.
The evidence of this, we understand, is already in the
world. People do not realize the presence of the visitors or the
nature of reality in the Greater Community, and so they will
naturally accept their prior beliefs without question, feeling
that the time has come for the great return of their Savior and
their Teacher. But he who will come will not come from the
heavenly host, he will not represent Knowledge or the Unseen
Ones, and he will not represent the Creator or the Creator’s
will. We have seen this plan in formulation in the world. We
have also seen similar plans carried out in other worlds.
mathetes

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01/25/2010 05:14 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
How did anyone get the idea that there is ANY rapture??
 Quoting: Full Circle

Its taught by Christ & Paul


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
Matthew 24





For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4

Notice both teach that a trumpet precedes this event


Also in 2 Thessalonians 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:16 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Resurrection
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Wishful thinking!
Risen

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01/25/2010 05:21 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
We'll have to see how many 'Christians' remain after they aren't raptured before everything goes to hell.

Seperating the wheat from the chaff.
"A man who has not passed through the inferno of his passions has never overcome them." -Carl Jung
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
We'll have to see how many 'Christians' remain after they aren't raptured before everything goes to hell.

Seperating the wheat from the chaff.
 Quoting: Risen

Keep your eyes on Jesus!
mathetes

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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
How did anyone get the idea that there is ANY rapture??

Its taught by Christ & Paul


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
Matthew 24





For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4

Notice both teach that a trumpet precedes this event


Also in 2 Thessalonians 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
 Quoting: mathetes

And of course the beatuful description found in 1 Corinthians 15


Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:42 PM
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
How did anyone get the idea that there is ANY rapture??

Its taught by Christ & Paul


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
Matthew 24





For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4

Notice both teach that a trumpet precedes this event


Also in 2 Thessalonians 2

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

And of course the beatuful description found in 1 Corinthians 15


Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 Quoting: mathetes

Dear Brother in Christ, please comment on this passage. I am convinced the candle sticks are two churches and the olive trees are two CHRISTIAN nations. These nations have lost their zeal though. Besides two men with super powers would be worshiped...even by christians! Lord bless you brother
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Pre-Trib = Great Deception

If you don't seek the truth, you will fry!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Margret McDonald DID indeed start this in 1830, she even stated that the 'vision' she had felt 'evil' to her, it was the preachers that ran with it and began to teach it. The word is not even in the Bible, and there IS NO RAPTURE. In Ephesians we are told to put on the whole Armour of God to STAND AGAINST the devil. No one is 'flying' away. Ezekiel 13:20 states (God speaking), I am AGAINST those that teach my children to fly to save their souls, I will tear them from their arms and let the souls go.

The 'rapture' is false doctrine. It will lead those that believe in it to worship the antichrist when he appears!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Dear Jesus, please open the eyes of the religious!
Rev. Spiralgazer

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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Margret McDonald DID indeed start this in 1830, she even stated that the 'vision' she had felt 'evil' to her, it was the preachers that ran with it and began to teach it. The word is not even in the Bible, and there IS NO RAPTURE. In Ephesians we are told to put on the whole Armour of God to STAND AGAINST the devil. No one is 'flying' away. Ezekiel 13:20 states (God speaking), I am AGAINST those that teach my children to fly to save their souls, I will tear them from their arms and let the souls go.

The 'rapture' is false doctrine. It will lead those that believe in it to worship the antichrist when he appears!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812857



+ 1
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein

revstargazer (at) hotmail.com
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Dear Jesus, please open the eyes of the religious!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873970



+100!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Margret McDonald DID indeed start this in 1830, she even stated that the 'vision' she had felt 'evil' to her, it was the preachers that ran with it and began to teach it. The word is not even in the Bible, and there IS NO RAPTURE. In Ephesians we are told to put on the whole Armour of God to STAND AGAINST the devil. No one is 'flying' away. Ezekiel 13:20 states (God speaking), I am AGAINST those that teach my children to fly to save their souls, I will tear them from their arms and let the souls go.

The 'rapture' is false doctrine. It will lead those that believe in it to worship the antichrist when he appears!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812857

+1 , for truth!
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
If He doesn't come in the clouds on a horse with KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS written on His thigh....DO NOT WORSHIP HIM!!! Rev. 19:16
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
If He doesn't come in the clouds on a horse with KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS written on His thigh....DO NOT WORSHIP HIM!!! Rev. 19:16
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873970

+100
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
The secret rapture and 7 yr tribulation
doctrine was created by a Jesuit Priest ....
Jesuit Francisco Rivera


[link to www.secret-rapture.com]
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
Wishful thinking!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873096


Humans are exceptionally good at self-delusion.

The more we give into desperate thinking the more easily we can delude ourselves.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
some jesuit
mathetes

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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
No one is 'flying' away. Ezekiel 13:20 states (God speaking), I am AGAINST those that teach my children to fly to save their souls, I will tear them from their arms and let the souls go.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812857

Good grief ac Ezekiel 13:20 is talking about false prophets or fortune tellers. And of course you chopped the verse down to "fit your meaning" and please show what translation you found "teach my children to fly to save their souls" I've been thru at least 10 diff translations and can't find what you posted?

Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against your magic bands with which you hunt the souls like birds, and I will tear them from your arms, and I will let the souls whom you hunt go free, the souls like birds.
English Standard Version




Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV

[link to www.biblegateway.com]


And of course everyone that claims the NT does not teach the harpazo(snatching away) or episunago (gathering together) ignores that the early church taught this as well as Jesus & Paul.... as shown above

I won't debate this on opinion but only from scripture..so if anyone has anything relevant(besides the attempt above) I would love to see it
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
by people who made shit up..

like most of organized religion
Anonymous Coward
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Re: !!! HOW DID WE GET THE IDEA OF THE PRE TRIB RAPTURE ???
One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched.

With the revealing of all these pre-MacDonald writings, you would think that this argument has been debunked. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We seem to be involved in a tug-of-war with the truth. Apparently, due to their lack of research, pre-trib opponents continue to pump out publications that cite MacDonald as the originator of the pre-trib rapture.





GLP