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Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.

 
astronut
User ID: 922113
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04/16/2010 10:46 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
btw, that is meteors that were classified, not meteorites, which impact Earth.

Not even. Spy satellite observations were classified, spy sats that happened to detect flashes from meteors. The meteors themselves are not classified.

So that can be any piece of junk in space that doesn't produce a tail.

Wrong. A meteor by definition is already in the atmosphere, burning up. A meteoroid is the rock or speck of dust that produces a meteor before it hits the atmosphere.

Basically 99.9% of stuff in space is now classified information.

Wrong.

From the looks of it, you are a very sad person. Must be on the PC 12 hours a day. The resolution of your replies to not just me, everyone else, is pretty extensive.

Too much PC time rots the brain and you seem to be a prime example. Can't think beyond what you were taught. I know the type, if it isn't in an 'official' publication, it isn't true.

It is the same mentality that operated within the Catholic Church during the days of knights and armor. If the Church didn't believe it or make known a specific idea, it wasn't true. The Church had a tight hold on the populations minds back then.

And the same is true for today as well.

To think freely is a seldom respected right that is silently diminished every day, 24/7. It is a wonderful thing, instead of scoffing impossibilities where there is no definitive answer, try to understand the ideas you call facts in astronomy are mostly based on another mans assumptions.

The simple fact is, there is NO solid conclusion regarding this threads topic and the things I mentioned as well. Each and every thing I mentioned is very possible.

Besides, all great changes leading to a higher scientific society stem from a perceived impossibility at the time from those who currently control societies thoughts, facts and scientific generalizations.

It's ok if you don't fully understand. Maybe reading this post a few more times and you may get it, or not.

In the mean time, lay off the macho know-it-all complex. Women hate it and men will always challenge it.

Biaatch!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 901059

For someone who bitches about the length or breadth of my replies you're pretty long winded yourself, hypocrite. You don't quit either, even when you're exposed as a liar. That's my definition of 'sad.'
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2010 11:46 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
bump
J.H.F.C.
User ID: 889802
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04/16/2010 11:50 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
12/21/2012 is only one day in the midst of what will take place over a 7-year period. All governments are aware and are preparing bunkers for the elites and TPTB.

[link to www.watchmanscry.com]
 Quoting: SFX



Didn't some biblical character mention a 7 year tribulation way back when?

yoda
Anonymous Coward
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04/16/2010 11:56 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
For someone who bitches about the length or breadth of my replies you're pretty long winded yourself, hypocrite. You don't quit either, even when you're exposed as a liar. That's my definition of 'sad.'
 Quoting: astronut 922113

It sure ain't retyping/cut n' pasting over 12 individual quotation boxes to make your self feel like you are better heard.

You are just another system proxy busy at work for the master. My reality, imagination, thoughts belong to me and only me. I follow no idols, no chains bounding me to another mans assumptions painted as facts, labeled as official and pushed down childrens minds through near all of their childhood.

When you see what everything is in your OWN right things become clearer. It is easy to be fooled, farmed as a good little sheople. It takes work to clean your mind of false sciences. The very art of language poisons the visual language of the brain, weakening us in thought and potential. Do you really know what's important in life? These sciences? Working hard to prove/disprove something another person created? Or capturing the very essence of life internally and forgive your seduction into the social cartel of the 'modern' man. Where there is no false thought, idea or association.

For there are two truths in this world. Ones that are taught and ones that are known since birth. Ones taught are commonly corrupted and have potential for lies to be taught as truth. The other is perfect and free from corruption. Can not be compramised and remains the real foundation of knowledge, love and all creation.

You are thinking along the lines of a speck of sand. Look up and see the shorelines I present.

Nothing is impossible. Everything has and will happen, again and again and again.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 12:10 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Just because it emits a photon, does not mean you can see it.

It's visible light magnitude was calculated to be ~25 - I already showed what would happen if an object even that dim were only a light year away or closer. This isn't UV magnitude, this is visible light magnitude. WFPC2 sensitivity is best at it's peak of 700nm and worst at the extremes. I see no reason to believe this detection was entirely or even mostly in U; F300W filter was used, but so was the F606W filter, and the U-V was -1.2!
 Quoting: Astronut


While that particular neutron may have either emitted or reflected some visible light (though the F606W filter also picks up infrared) - as that is debatable considering that optical surveyors were unable to locate it, that is most definitely not the norm with neutron stars (but is there a norm with neutron stars?). If there were one within a few light years of our solar system, while we might get lucky and magically get a neutron star with a mag 25.6, chances are that it would be a much older one with less photon activity and emit light outside the visible range, as if it were anything else, it would not have been able to be hidden this long. If it were out beyond the Oort cloud where billions of artifacts equal and greater in size abound and could mask it, coupled with the fact that up until Hubble captured this candidate for neutron star status, they were only theorized-no one REALLY knows what to look for. And the detection was NOT mostly in U, but X. Then secondary in U, with faint hits of V. And all U-V color means is that it was really freakin' hot and what end of the spectrum you are likely to see color emitted at. (negative values correlating to hotter U, X, and G rays and positive to longer, cooler IR waves) so that just reiterates the shortwave spectrum this light was on.
BTW you never "showed" anything. You just said it was so.
Though for the record I am not convinced there is a neutron out lurking either, but I certainly won't close my mind to the possibility without looking at all the possible variables.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 12:26 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
everything rides this planet as a passenger, we have no control over it, never will, God is in control. If you believe in the bible and believe Revelations is going to bring about the 'end' of the world as we know it and God is going to remake heaven and earth, I can believe that the creator would use something like this to bring about the end.

I often wondered what would scare human beings enough to run into the mountains and beg them to come down upon them, that fear would be so great that people would lose their minds.
All the cups and bowels that angels will pour out on the earth in punishment and warning to look to God to save your soul before your too late.

All adds up to me.
 Quoting: Fishersofmen


Crap
Eight Squared
User ID: 945068
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04/17/2010 12:28 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Here is entrepreneur moment, manufacture fashionable magnetic clothing that would repel the influx of particles when the earth's magnetic field begins to collapse. Ask Lady Gaga. Build city and food production facilities with magnetic field generators deflecting harmful particles. We can have Faraday cage conductive plastic film that keeps those nasty EMPs at bay. Oh well, when your number is up, its up unless of course you can escape into a alternate universe.



Doom and fashion can live in harmony.

stoner
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 01:42 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
A neutron star? Those things are pretty damn massive, with a minimum mass greater than the sun itself! If one of those were anywhere near the inner solar system, we'd see some hella huge gravitational perturbations on the positions of the outer planets. Things would be seriously out of whack with their predicted locations, especially with lower mass bodies such as asteroids. I don't know who these jokers think they are, but their claim doesn't fit the observational evidence.
 Quoting: Astronut

I am with asto guy in that I actually have a physics degree and you would kow if something that massive was in our solar system.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 02:42 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Suuuure you'd kow.

shill
Spawn

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04/17/2010 03:10 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
A neutron star? Those things are pretty damn massive, with a minimum mass greater than the sun itself! If one of those were anywhere near the inner solar system, we'd see some hella huge gravitational perturbations on the positions of the outer planets. Things would be seriously out of whack with their predicted locations, especially with lower mass bodies such as asteroids. I don't know who these jokers think they are, but their claim doesn't fit the observational evidence.


Holy shit! It took only 4 minutes for Astronut to "find" this thread and type up a response to it.

Now, I'm really fucking scared regarding the existance of this supermassive object.
 Quoting: CN



LOL.... Yeah, his copy of Megaphone must be bogged down flowers ... lol


UPDATE/QUESTION: why does the word "flowers" replace another word I used (sounds like eye wear...)????? What's up mods????

Last Edited by Spawn on 04/17/2010 03:12 AM
....and whatever you do, DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK... no... don't do it... STOP!!!! I warned you....

[link to www.youtube.com]
Spawn

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04/17/2010 03:28 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
The book/program "The Great Year" says that the Sun has a binary companion -- rubbish
The Great Year is a term used to describe the 25,000 year cycle of precession of the Earth's axis of rotation around the pole of its orbit. This term has been used for quite a long time, but doesn't in any way refer to WHY the precession occurs (when the term was invented, it was thought to be a 'natural' motion of the stars, which occurred in additional to their daily motion around the sky).
Precession occurs because of the gravitational effects of the Moon and Sun on our equatorial bulge. This is referred to as the 'lunisolar' theory, and is the ONLY accepted theory of precession.
However, there is an alternative theory, based on an 1894 book which was itself based on ancient Oriental philosophies of the motions of heavenly bodies, which suggests that precession is caused, at least in part, by the Sun orbiting around some unknown stellar companion, with an orbital period of 24,000 years. This is the theory that you must have heard discussed in the program. I was, frankly, quite surprised and disturbed to hear that this program was based on such nonsense. There are small discrepancies in the lunisolar theory calculations, which is quite common in any application of theory of any sort to the real world, but the idea that some unknown companion of the Sun can be in any way responsible for these discrepancies is absolute rubbish. If there were such a star, and it was close enough so that it could have a 24,000 year orbital period, it would produce many other, very noticeable effects on our Solar System, particularly on comets and the outer planets, and there is absolutely no way that this can be true; and in any event, those effects would NOT be related to precession, which involves the axis of rotation of the Earth, and not its orbital motion.
Frankly, this reminds me of some very similar rubbish, about 30 years ago, about a nonexistent star dubbed Nemesis, which supposedly had a 26-million year orbital period, and was responsible for periodic waves of comets being thrown into the Solar System, destroying everything in their path. At least in that case, it was possible to show that the theories involved were not only ridiculous, but also that the mathematics involved was completely faulty, without having to invest additional time in a fruitless search for the nonexistent object.

[link to cseligman.com]



Um, sorry but that "rubbish" is getting a new looking into...by NASA no less!
[link to www.astrobio.net]
 Quoting: Leeloominai


Most shills are out there just to confuse and distract... good catch!

clappa
....and whatever you do, DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK... no... don't do it... STOP!!!! I warned you....

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 913463
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04/17/2010 03:56 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Not everyone has a Hubble in their backyard!

See my calculations above. You wouldn't need a hubble in your backyard to see the very neutron star you mentioned if it were in fact in a 24,000 year orbit of the sun as claimed in this thread. In fact, you wouldn't need any telescope at all, just your eyes and a dark sky.

Don't get pissed just answer with a specific how to, if you can do so.

The "how" would be to look and hope one is there within thousands of astronomical units instead of thousands of light years.

That way your method for doing so may be tested by any person with a NORMAL telescope. Simply by going outside and attempting to view one in a known location by your method.
You want to see one far from earth? Well it being visible is usually contingent on it being close to the solar system. If it's within a light year or so, just do widefield imaging with a decent APO refractor down to magnitude 12 and look for anything with a high proper motion year to year.

*If you want to see one far from earth, just look to the center of the crab nebula for this star:
[link to www.astro.caltech.edu]
You can probably recognize it by the pattern of surrounding stars in this amateur image:
[link to www.astrosurf.com]
It's there, near the center.
 Quoting: Astronut



Thanks for the input I shall return with results!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 913463
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04/17/2010 04:13 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
I'd like to back up Astronut's assertions because he's using actual scientific evidence, not some bullshit found by surfing the interwebs for too long.
The unassailable fact that a neutron star is defined as weighing more than a sun-like star (1.4 - 2.1 solar masses) means that the entire solar system would be orbiting this star.
I for one am curious as to how the orbits of the planets would be affected by a neutron star OR brown dwarf neighbor within 24,000 AU. Cal it idle curiosity.
Astronut, can you provide a link or the appropriate numbers to crunch for that? Thanks in advance.

as we are in the 'midst' of two galaxies 'merging,' ours the Sagatarius(being absorbed/accumulated,)and the great Milky Way Galaxy(, the absorber,accumulator,) this item, neutron star, or whatever, is NOT necessaraly from OUR space OR time, think of the size DIFFERECE between our 'common' galactice 'elements,' no ?

were thinkin' pond, we need to realize that there really are Oceans out there, perhaps it's just the 24~26,000 year tide commin' in . .. we may get 'caught,' again, in the space between the bluffs . .. . . oh wells, at least we had a good time first .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811871




You seem to be one of the few here besides myself that actually believe that we are Sagatariun not Milky. A few Astro PHD's worked on this Thesis with quite amazing results, not to mention diagrams to prove such!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 913463
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04/17/2010 04:31 AM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Just because it emits a photon, does not mean you can see it.

It's visible light magnitude was calculated to be ~25 - I already showed what would happen if an object even that dim were only a light year away or closer. This isn't UV magnitude, this is visible light magnitude. WFPC2 sensitivity is best at it's peak of 700nm and worst at the extremes. I see no reason to believe this detection was entirely or even mostly in U; F300W filter was used, but so was the F606W filter, and the U-V was -1.2!


While that particular neutron may have either emitted or reflected some visible light (though the F606W filter also picks up infrared) - as that is debatable considering that optical surveyors were unable to locate it, that is most definitely not the norm with neutron stars (but is there a norm with neutron stars?). If there were one within a few light years of our solar system, while we might get lucky and magically get a neutron star with a mag 25.6, chances are that it would be a much older one with less photon activity and emit light outside the visible range, as if it were anything else, it would not have been able to be hidden this long. If it were out beyond the Oort cloud where billions of artifacts equal and greater in size abound and could mask it, coupled with the fact that up until Hubble captured this candidate for neutron star status, they were only theorized-no one REALLY knows what to look for. And the detection was NOT mostly in U, but X. Then secondary in U, with faint hits of V. And all U-V color means is that it was really freakin' hot and what end of the spectrum you are likely to see color emitted at. (negative values correlating to hotter U, X, and G rays and positive to longer, cooler IR waves) so that just reiterates the shortwave spectrum this light was on.
BTW you never "showed" anything. You just said it was so.
Though for the record I am not convinced there is a neutron out lurking either, but I certainly won't close my mind to the possibility without looking at all the possible variables.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 855069


Im all for educating folks for understanding purposes. I think Astronut has failed to prove without a doubt that a Neutron Star would be visible to the eye!

Another person had mentioned that if there were a Neutron Star, as in a binary system that we would be orbiting it and not the other way around! Ok, whom has ruled this out and proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt? SOmeone else mentioned that a Neutron Star was also a Pulsar and there would be no way of not being able to see that, well there are two types of Neutron Stars that we know of, one is a pulsar and one is not! So, yet another false statement to add confusion to many!

The world was flat long ago, Pluto was planet #9 in our Solar System for years and no objects were located further out. All I am saying is many things have changed in our so called knowledge of science and Universal properties that you cannot rule this out.

By the way Einstien was wrong in two very significant theroies we utilise today. But TPTB already know that and have for some time. No need to correct the mistakes at this point in time for the civillian world. They have corrected it in the areas necessary for their useage.
Catseye
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04/17/2010 02:00 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Question for astronut:

I'm not picking at you like some people, just thought I'd go to the last thread you were on to ask -

I saw the video someone listed (can't remember who) about something approaching the sun. He gives coordinates

[link to video.godlikeproductions.com]

and I was looking on google sky to see. There is a star there, but how do you know anything about it? Like if it's been charted or some info about it? I have been trying to google for a star atlas to look it up but I'm getting nowhere, nothing helpful.

Just curious because one day I think somebody really is going to have accurate coordinates (not necessarily this guy but who knows) of something like we've been speculating about and I wonder how we are going to check out any given coordinates.

I am about to dig out my dusty old 6 inch reflecting telescope - that's how long it's been since I've used it. I've only looked at a few stars and Jupiter and Saturn with it, I'm not even an "amateur astronomer" yet. But it's got the motorized star finder in it and I'm ready to play with it some more. A little more seriously this time.

So when someone gives coordinates, how do we verify if it's a "significant find" or not?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 904552
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04/17/2010 03:21 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Another person had mentioned that if there were a Neutron Star, as in a binary system that we would be orbiting it and not the other way around! Ok, whom has ruled this out and proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 913463


Hundreds of years of paralactic observations.


Someone else mentioned that a Neutron Star was also a Pulsar and there would be no way of not being able to see that, well there are two types of Neutron Stars that we know of, one is a pulsar and one is not! So, yet another false statement to add confusion to many!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 913463



Most neutron stars are pulsars, very few are known to be radio quiet. All neutron stars emit x-rays. So a close neutron star would have been revealed. If we can detect neutron stars hundreds of light years away why can't we discover one less than a light year away? It would have been the first neutron star discovered.

By the way Einstien was wrong in two very significant theroies we utilise today.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 913463



Einstein was wrong on a number of things. What are you talking about?
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 03:36 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Question for astronut:

I'm not picking at you like some people, just thought I'd go to the last thread you were on to ask -

I saw the video someone listed (can't remember who) about something approaching the sun. He gives coordinates

[link to video.godlikeproductions.com]

and I was looking on google sky to see. There is a star there, but how do you know anything about it? Like if it's been charted or some info about it? I have been trying to google for a star atlas to look it up but I'm getting nowhere, nothing helpful.

Just curious because one day I think somebody really is going to have accurate coordinates (not necessarily this guy but who knows) of something like we've been speculating about and I wonder how we are going to check out any given coordinates.

I am about to dig out my dusty old 6 inch reflecting telescope - that's how long it's been since I've used it. I've only looked at a few stars and Jupiter and Saturn with it, I'm not even an "amateur astronomer" yet. But it's got the motorized star finder in it and I'm ready to play with it some more. A little more seriously this time.

So when someone gives coordinates, how do we verify if it's a "significant find" or not?
 Quoting: Catseye 944281




Visual observations are not very revealing. You need to obtain and understand the set of observations. First is the visual. We get the observed brightness. Second, you can watch the position over time. This gives the space motion of the object, refered to as proper motion. Astronomy also works by colors, known as photometry. There are many observational color bands (actually hundreds of bands) that reveal a good deal about the star. The most common are the UBVRI bands. U for ultraviolet, V for visible, B for blue, R for red/infrared and I an infrared band. Then, one of the most important tools astronomers is the spectroscope. It basically produces a rainbow but more importantly, a way to measure the wavelength and the intensity of light at the wavelength. Then other tools can be used to understand the star, gamma and x-rays, polarization, and ways to utlize the spectroscopic information to determine magnetic field strength. One thing that is done now to discover planets is to look at the wobble. If a star has a planet orbiting it, it will have a small motion back and forth. That motion reveals any planet orbiting.

So one observation has use but it is the collection of observations over time that really reveal what the star is and what it is doing.
Catseye
User ID: 944281
Dominican Republic
04/17/2010 04:41 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Thank you, I was afraid it was pretty complicated. So unless I feel like purchasing a spectroscope and learning how to use it really fast I have to leave it up to experts to interpret the data for me. That's even worse, it makes it hard for anyone to be able to convince another person of what he/she has found unless they are trying to convince a fellow astronomer. Guess astronomy forums are a good place to lurk about now.
Anonymous Coward
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04/17/2010 08:10 PM
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Re: Astrophysicists: Best case scenario is the end of Western civilization as we know it.
Thank you, I was afraid it was pretty complicated. So unless I feel like purchasing a spectroscope and learning how to use it really fast I have to leave it up to experts to interpret the data for me. That's even worse, it makes it hard for anyone to be able to convince another person of what he/she has found unless they are trying to convince a fellow astronomer. Guess astronomy forums are a good place to lurk about now.
 Quoting: Catseye 944281



Yes, some of the more advanced topics do take specialization. But you go to a doctor to read an x-ray, a mechanic to find problems with your car, and a lawyer for legal issues. So why do you expect differently about astronomy.

It really depends on how in depth you want to go. There are thousands of amateurs in the world who are very knowledgeable about astronomy and data. There are some that have home spectrometers.

As a place to start, try some of the magazines. The two most popular are Sky & Telescope and Astronomy Magazine. They are available at most book stores. They cover a range of articles, talk about what is in the sky, and present a few detailed articles.

Some of the undergraduate introductory textbooks might be better than a popular book on astronomy. The textbooks cover more material while the popular books tend to discuss a single topic. And most introductory textbooks are very light on the math.

It does take time. Astronomy has many facets and there is a lot to learn but much of it is within the grasp of the amateur.





GLP