I too think it not robbery to be equal with God!

Thank you for THAT input NiP......that is exactly what we should be striving to understand!

Our connection to Nature is definitely a way to help improve our awareness! imho

Thanks much!

A fair exegesis would post the entire passage.

Will you do that OP, or do you want me to?

I believe a poster on page 1 already did......?

Projection of the Self perhaps.

Interesting way of looking at it......hmmm.......

We are all as much a part of God (All That Is) as the Earth beneath our feet, the elements of which we are composed of.

Nope -- that was a related concept.

Everyone, here's where OWK's verse comes from, in context:



What the passage actually says is that Jesus temporarily gave up his equality to take human form, and not just any human form but the form of a servant, and not just a servant but a humble and obedient servant, even unto death.

"What the passage actually says is that Jesus temporarily gave up his equality........"

I DON'T see how you make THAT connection? Personal conjecture???

Last Edited by ObeWayneKenobe on 09/05/2011 04:37 PM

Of course not. This entire passage -- taken as an entire passage -- clearly states that.

See here for example: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

The verb form of kenosis (kenoo) is used in v.7 to denote 'emptying')

Then why did He think it not robbery to be equal with God.......even though(as you say) He was empty?

Which btw I disagree with: For I think He was NEVER "empty"......but rather, "filled with Light"! :)

The word "robbery" is from the AV. A better translation is "a thing to be grasped."

In other words, the passion is saying that Jesus did need to "grasp" his equality and God-nature but was willing to empty Himself to take human form.

Rather than the self-aggrandizement that is so popular with most today, Jesus took the opposite path.

It is a good model for all of us to follow.

I see what you are saying(I think).........as we are ALL born "empty", and must learn humility before we can accept our true nature of Divinity!?!

You are not Jesus and you never will be.

Disclaimer that what follows is my own opinion and certainly incomplete...

Yes, we are born "empty" but as the self [ego] develops, the self-centeredness begins and what theologians call sin "infects" us as we have no "antibodies" to resist it.

The message of the Cross [off topic here but added for completeness] is that the only power strong enough to eradicate the power of sin is the wrath of God, but that "cure" would kill us. So Jesus "became sin" for us and took the wrath of God to himself.

We are called to follow Jesus, even to "take up our cross," that is to recognize the consequences of living His way of life. (The cross was a symbol of Roman -- TPTB of Jesus' day -- rule and power.)

Part of that "following Jesus" is the "emptying" of self that you refer to. The Apostle Paul writes that he [his self-nature, ego] "dies daily." And, "For me to live is Christ and to die [to self] is gain." The actions of Jesus on the cross make this possible.

In summary, yes, we are called to "learn humility." Where my beliefs depart from yours is that the divine nature comes from God and is not inherent in us naturally.

Last Edited by Life and Love on 09/05/2011 05:20 PM

I NEVER claimed to be Jesus........nor will I EVER be!!!

But being "One with God" is NOT the same thing as "being Jesus"(but more like -> "being more like Jesus")!

Last Edited by ObeWayneKenobe on 09/05/2011 05:23 PM

It is for you, but not for me.

ye are gods

I think that you have misread me: For I too believe that the "divine nature" must be earned, not just inherited!

Yes, I think its a choice, that each of us must make for ourselves......

Except I think that the divine nature is impossible for us to "earn." That is why it is offered as a "free gift" from God vs. wages we have "earned" from our own efforts.

"Free Gift"? Who told you that one?(I know, the Pharisees wrote it in the bible huh)........:(

If you think you are going to get to graduate from High School into College, without first getting your lessons........then I have some swamp land in Florida I will be glad to sell you! lol ;)

Last Edited by ObeWayneKenobe on 09/05/2011 05:47 PM

We are born with Wisdom, far from being "empty"...
and the Spirit of Our Creator.

unfortunately, the majority of people, especially the religious minded believers, fail to realize we have those gifts from God and think that their religious/new age/atheist teachings and dogmas are the only methods of Spiritual 'knowledge', which is the foundation of their failure to grasp True Spirituality.

i.e. Jesus tapped into His Wisdom;
99.9% of his believers did not tap into Their Wisdom.

the .1% go on to establish their relationship with Our Creator, eliminating religion from Their Life.

the other 99.9% > they are the lost sheep < Love them enough to avoid them like a plague.

remember: using Our Wisdom, we establish Our relationship with Our Creator.

I think I understand what you are trying to say(as in the "spirit of the law" not the "letter of the law")........but do you really think a little baby is "born with wisdom"?

Boy, this threads getting me a lot of "red karma" votes! lol :(

Ah OWK, and we were doing so well...

I'll leave you with your private beliefs and bid you a good evening.

I gave you a green one to partially make up for the red. I don't have to agree with someone to enjoy the discussion. :)

You better bet your Life on that one, Master OWK.

We all have Wisdom and the Spirit of Our Creator when we are born. That's Universal Law(~). That's WHY WE ARE EQUAL with Our Creator aka God.

you always seem to have some difficulty with Wisdom, Master OWK... I wonder why?

Peace my friend.........and it's ok in my book for you to have a difference of opinion too! :)

Well, I thought 'Wisdom comes with age'?...........but of course we could consider that many ages(life streams) would(or should), as you have stated; provide ample opportunity to gain Wisdom.........could it not?