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| 02:37 PM | ||
| Users Online Now: 2,099 (Who's On?) | Visitors Today: 1,347,032 | |
| Pageviews Today: 1,845,024 | Threads Today: 472 | Posts Today: 7,912 |
| 02:37 PM | ||
the J-wish concept of the Messiah | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73977320  Israel02/09/2017 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 07:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | do you realise that IF you are wrong... and thats purely hypothetical, but if there is a slight chance you are wrong regarding the identity of The Messiah, christians are infact the enemy of Israel? you dont think so? is it not an act of war to promote an imposter as the king of a nation that you yourselves are not part of? is it not an act of war and invasion to see yourselves as members of a nation you are not part of, based on your own mistake regarding the identity of the king of said nation?? and not to mention the millions of J-wish lives taken by christians, and the constant intervention of christians in J-wish affairs, time after time trying to put sticks in the wheels of J-ws trying to build the Kingdom of G-d. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062  United States02/09/2017 08:17 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | OP, Have you ever in you life violated one of the 613 Mitzvot of the Tanakh? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68966062 plenty. Then you have sinned ? yes. Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Doesn't it also say again in Ezekiel 18:4 ".. Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die."" |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Doesn't it also say again in Ezekiel 18:4 ".. Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die."" But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. but let us go your way christian, surely you have sinned, according to you, the soul that sinned shalld die, you will die (eternally) with or without the blood of jesus |
| Apokalupsis User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Yes that verse talks of repentance of a wicked man so that G-d will not have to destroy his body while he is on earth. But what of his soul? For it is written the soul of the man who sins MUST die. Surely all of us have sinned in life, have broken G-d's law. What then, is non-messianic Judaism's solution to the command in Ezekiel of the death of the soul that has sinned? What is their hope? |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Yes that verse talks of repentance of a wicked man so that G-d will not have to destroy his body while he is on earth. But what of his soul? For it is written the soul of the man who sins MUST die. Surely all of us have sinned in life, have broken G-d's law. What then, is non-messianic Judaism's solution to the command in Ezekiel of the death of the soul that has sinned? What is their hope? if you say that your solution is jesus... then why is it that christians die physically? and on what basis are you arguing that this passage is speaking about the physical body and not the soul? my arguement is that the prescribed solution in Ezekiel 18, IE repentance, is for the SOUL, and is on par with your jesus solution! meaning that just as you claim the jesus is the solution for the soul, I claim that repentance is the solution for the soul. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73981947 United States02/09/2017 08:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wouldn't you agree that sin separates us from God? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68966062 (Isaiah 59:1-2) true. but repentance undoes the separation. as it says in the same chapter in verse 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. unto those THAT TURN FROM TRANSGRESSION by their own repentance, not by the redeemer's blood. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Zechariah 1:3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. does this not say that if we turn back to G-d (repentance) he shall return back to us? thus UNDOING the separation? and need I show you how many times this phrase "return onto me and I shall return to you" appears through out the Tanakh? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 21300927 United States02/09/2017 08:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | **before you bring Isaiah 53 - the chapter is about the servant who is the nation of Israel, the speakers are not J-ws but the gentile world when they discover the J-ws have been right all along. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73977320 You post "J-ws"? I've only seen people do that when speaking about God. Like you cannot speak the word "God". Do you not spell out your name and identity because you think your tribe are Gods? do you realise that IF you are wrong... and thats purely hypothetical, but if there is a slight chance you are wrong regarding the identity of The Messiah, christians are infact the enemy of Israel? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73977320 No, pure BS. You are the Nation of Judah and not Israel. You haven't been "Israel" in thousands of years. You broke off the tribes of Israel. The 10 lost tribes are the nation of Israel. . |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | **before you bring Isaiah 53 - the chapter is about the servant who is the nation of Israel, the speakers are not J-ws but the gentile world when they discover the J-ws have been right all along. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73977320 You post "J-ws"? I've only seen people do that when speaking about God. Like you cannot speak the word "God". Do you not spell out your name and identity because you think your tribe are Gods? do you realise that IF you are wrong... and thats purely hypothetical, but if there is a slight chance you are wrong regarding the identity of The Messiah, christians are infact the enemy of Israel? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73977320 No, pure BS. You are the Nation of Judah and not Israel. You haven't been "Israel" in thousands of years. You broke off the tribes of Israel. The 10 lost tribes are the nation of Israel. . I cant post the word J-ws with an E because it triggers and auto ban. doesnt matter, you fight against Israel. Judah is still part of Israel. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 45542878 United States02/09/2017 08:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Apokalupsis
 User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 08:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68966062 Isn't it written in the Tanakh (Ezekiel 18:2) "The soul who sins shall die."? it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Yes that verse talks of repentance of a wicked man so that G-d will not have to destroy his body while he is on earth. But what of his soul? For it is written the soul of the man who sins MUST die. Surely all of us have sinned in life, have broken G-d's law. What then, is non-messianic Judaism's solution to the command in Ezekiel of the death of the soul that has sinned? What is their hope? if you say that your solution is jesus... then why is it that christians die physically? and on what basis are you arguing that this passage is speaking about the physical body and not the soul? my arguement is that the prescribed solution in Ezekiel 18, IE repentance, is for the SOUL, and is on par with your jesus solution! meaning that just as you claim the jesus is the solution for the soul, I claim that repentance is the solution for the soul. The Nazerene J-ws and the gentile Christians believe that Yahushua died to save the soul, not to save the crude fleshly material that is of this material plane of existence (Though this too will be remedied upon the second coming) The basis I should clarify. The version of Ezekiel 18 I am reading for this comment is the NASB found here. [link to biblehub.com] It goes from "the soul who sins will die" in Ezekiel 18:3 to "The person who sins will die" in Ezekiel 18:20 creating a distinction between soul iand body. Not all translations may be rendered this way though most are. But irregardless Ezekiel 18:21-22 makes no mention of the soul at all. But is talking of the body when it mentions repentance. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 08:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Apokalupsis, as an advent researcher of Judaism... dont you think its time to admit that you no longer have any logical reasons to believe the messiahship of jesus? and that it is nothing but the emotion the jesus story triggers in you that causes you to hold on to the faith? and that emotion is exactly what the roman writers of the NT were aiming for! they couldnt sell lie through logic, it doesnt work, but story telling and emotions works very well with ignorance. and not to mention that surely you are dealing with many problems regarding christianity! paul vs the law, jesus and the holes in his narrative and the history of christianity and the involvment of rome in its creation. time you come to G-d. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73981947 United States02/09/2017 09:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 09:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 73977320 it does... but have you read the rest? Ezekiel 18 21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. now... where is it written that the soul that sins needs to believe in G-d's crucified born of a virgin demi god son? Yes that verse talks of repentance of a wicked man so that G-d will not have to destroy his body while he is on earth. But what of his soul? For it is written the soul of the man who sins MUST die. Surely all of us have sinned in life, have broken G-d's law. What then, is non-messianic Judaism's solution to the command in Ezekiel of the death of the soul that has sinned? What is their hope? if you say that your solution is jesus... then why is it that christians die physically? and on what basis are you arguing that this passage is speaking about the physical body and not the soul? my arguement is that the prescribed solution in Ezekiel 18, IE repentance, is for the SOUL, and is on par with your jesus solution! meaning that just as you claim the jesus is the solution for the soul, I claim that repentance is the solution for the soul. The Nazerene J-ws and the gentile Christians believe that Yahushua died to save the soul, not to save the crude fleshly material that is of this material plane of existence (Though this too will be remedied upon the second coming) The basis I should clarify. The version of Ezekiel 18 I am reading for this comment is the NASB found here. [link to biblehub.com] It goes from "the soul who sins will die" in Ezekiel 18:3 to "The person who sins will die" in Ezekiel 18:20 creating a distinction between soul iand body. Not all translations may be rendered this way though most are. But irregardless Ezekiel 18:21-22 makes no mention of the soul at all. But is talking of the body when it mentions repentance. does it say the body? it doesnt, it says man. I dont see any reason to see a distinction that makes 21-22 about the body and not the soul also. again, I claim that the prescribed solution of repentance is for the soul and not the body, and your argument against this doesnt hold water. the hebrew says "Ha'rasha" which means the WICKED, the wicked period. obviously referring to a wicked soul which has become wicked by sinning. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 09:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73981947 United States02/09/2017 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Apokalupsis
User ID: 68966062 United States02/09/2017 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Wouldn't you agree that sin separates us from God? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 68966062 (Isaiah 59:1-2) true. but repentance undoes the separation. as it says in the same chapter in verse 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. unto those THAT TURN FROM TRANSGRESSION by their own repentance, not by the redeemer's blood. Repentance stops you from continuing ongoing sin which stays the hand of G-d having to execute judgment upon you while you are on earth. But what of the past sins you committed? You have stopped committing new ones but how can one be reconciled unto the the Almighty for the past wrongs you committed? Surely you can't reconcile yourself? |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 73977320 Israel02/09/2017 09:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 73981947 United States02/09/2017 09:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
