Thoughts on how Islanders came to be on the many S. Pacific Islands. (Expanding Earth and Pangea)

Island bmp

Polynesians were originally Phonecians, master mariners, who ventured far looking for gold. They found it in quantity on the E seaboard of Australia, which they referred to as Orphir.
They also picked up eucalyptus oil which had been discovered in a few Egyptian burial places.
Melanesians came from south India.
Before the Melanesians was a race dubbed 'Lapita', after their pottery. We know very little of the Lapita people.
I am not an anthropologist but an interested layman. Who has spent years travelling. And reading.
If anyone can add (or subtract) then by all means.

How did they navigate? Just by stars?

Last Edited by JustmeTX on 02/08/2024 02:18 AM

Most certainly by the stars. Which were a lot clearer 3000 (or more) years ago. They did try to maintain a visual distance from the coasts. Recall that near the Great Pyramid an ocean-going ship was found buried in the sand.
They did not settle in Australia as the locals were hostile.
There are hieroglyphs carved into sandstone near the coastal city of Gosford (google Gosford glyphs).
But...the sandstone is not granite and the glyphs seem too 'fresh'. There apparently was a doctor who lived in the area who studied hieroglyphs and may have made them.
Near the north Queensland town of Gladstone there seems to be what looks like a stone harbour/wharf. Something the aborigines could not possibly have built.
Rex Gilroy had gathered 'evidence'. He passed on a few years ago after a lifetime of exploring 'oddities'.

Thanks.

Yes, coastal sailing would of course be dead simple in terms of navigation, assuming the coast was kept in sight.

Boats man...boats.

And they ain't a specific race.

They're a mixed breed...so obviously several people's have traveled the south pacific.

Haplo C, O, M and K on the male side.

Mt, B, P, M and K on the female side.

i thought they could be traced largely to migrations from taiwan ?

repeated migrations

Why says they couldn't build boats? They've been building boats for hundreds of years. All it would take would be a foolhardy adventurer type to round up some friends and head out. Drinking water would be their worst problem. If they got lucky they could collect enough rain to make it.
People don't give the ancients any credit.
Only Africans never built a boat. Every other culture built nice boats. Our American Indians could build lightweight, sturdy canoes that could bring an expedition a thousand miles, the boats being light enough for two men to carry them past the shallows.
Have a little faith in your fellow humans!

Nah...it was pre taiwan...their O3 haplo.

The Polynesians are mix of what I Listed.

They came from Asia, Australia and Papua New Guinea.

Taiwanese become O3 over thousands of yrs of evolution...their Chinese.

And I should've listed the Phillipines.. the majority of their blood is Phillipino....they're the original O haplo group.

thank you

[link to hokulea.com (secure)]

The wildest part is the C haplo.

C haplo are the Mongol.

Apparently before even Genhgis Kahn..thousands of yrs ago the Mongols were some traveling bastards...they've been raping and pillaging their entire existence.

You listen to that phony Carl Sagan wanna be, you're just going to get dumb. People have been sailing all over this planet for thousands of years. Deep in to the last ice age (and probably further.)

Certainly the Chinese were formidable seafarers. They ventured south and east and west, and probably touched Australia in the 1400s if not sooner. But left hardly any trace. Contact with south sea peoples left anatomical features (and DNA) which are still apparent today.
The aborigines of Taiwan (Formosa) bare some ressemblance to those of northern Japan (the Ainu) with both exhibiting some Melanesian likenesses.
Stephen Oppenheimer's Eden In The East is excellent reading.
Some Egyptians are indistinguishable from Polynesians.
The concept that Polynesians originated from South American Indians is not tenable. That Phonecians migrated to S America then sailed to the S Pacific is more likely as (anther) migration route.

Yes, you can navigate with stars. One guy in Micronesia who had retained some of the knowledge of navigation knew the paths of something like 150 stars. And there is something about the position of the Southern Cross in the sky and being at Tahiti -- I forget the specifics, but let's just say as an example that when the distance between the cross and the horizon is the same as the size of the overall constellation, you're at Tahiti, so to return to Tahiti you'd know to sail in a direction where the cross is getting closer to the horizon, something like that. And here's just one intro on navigating via stars: [link to belowthestars.com (secure)]

There are other things that assist as well. It is said that they knew where land should be by watching birds, perhaps the Golden Plover (Kolea in Hawaiian). There are plovers that migrate annually between Alaska and Siberia and Hawaii. I think there are plovers that also go down to New Zealand. If birds seem to fly off every year, it stands to reason that they are landing somewhere else eventually. So follow the path of the bird, and you'll eventually reach land.

Clouds take on different characteristics over land, as well. They bunch up, and the underside of clouds can reflect different colors over land. See a particular bunch on the horizon, and land may be that way.

You can also tell direction and conditions purely by the feel of the boat due to the direction of waves hitting the boat. And waves would change when you're closer to a land mass rather than in open sea.

And a very practical way of exploring is to do it in stages. For example, you take two days of food, then you sail out wherever you can confidently go in a day, then come back in a day. Just keep extending these trips over time, going further each time and observing how to get back.

These are just the things I happen to know off-hand. Don't underestimate the intelligence of people who came before you, especially people who lived much closer to nature and had the time and experience to observe nature. Ignorance is a friend to no one, and who decided people in the Pacific were "simple minded" in the first place, other than a bigot? Genetically, they are mostly Asians that went through a genetic bottleneck. Who they were before they left Taiwan/SE China, though, who knows.

[link to youtu.be (secure)]

Moana told us.

They ain't Phoenicians.

Ya fuckin retard.

Phoenicians are or would have been J1 or J2 or even E haplo group.

The Polynesians have zero...and I mean zero of those haplo groups in them.

Just do a search for global dna maps.

Holy fuck you people are retarded.

I should point out that there is evidence of voyages that went back and forth between places. There is the question of the sweet potato, which I believe originated in S. America but is widespread in Polynesia. There is also some similarity between the chicken in Polynesia and a chicken I think also in S. America. The Polynesians also carried food plants and animals with them from Asia/Indonesia/Papua New Guinea, so these were deliberate voyages to settle new areas.

There are also claims of similarities between canoes in Polynesia and ones built by the Chumash in California. Supposedly some skulls found in the Channel Islands off of California bear some resemblance to Polynesian skulls. I've read claims of some contact between Polynesians and the area around Southern Mexico, but who knows if these claims are true.

I think all sorts of people have been sailing back and forth all over the planet for much, much longer than is currently acknowledged. But I also think many advanced civilizations may have come and gone over many thousands of years.

Believe absolutely nothing that affirmative action piece of shit says.

Jesus christ...you have a higher IQ then him.

Love that movie.

These things are also explained by the Pangea - Expanding Earth theory.

Those shorelines used to be abutted together. Of course the plants are common because they were once growing on the same contiguous land! :)

Breeds can mix on contiguous land of Pangea as well, then the land separates.

Anything the one theory can explain, can be explained by the other.

I don't know anything about Haplo this or that, but I did sail and study all aspects of sailing and navigation for about half my life. And there is no way I would try to cross an ocean and hit a little island without at least a sextant, an accurate clock, a current Bowditch nautical almanac, and a set of charts.