The Rapture and the Timing of the Two Witnesses

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Forget the Rapture completely, you wont live it. Should any rapture ever happen it is decades away, so are the 2 W. Live your life to your best, the only thing you can do.

Wow! Interesting!!!!!!!

Did anything in my post say anything about any date?

You could be right. You could be wrong. You think you're right. Why should I?

The case presented in the full article is the best and most logical piecing together of the endtimes series of events that I have ever seen.

Secondly, there is no pre-trib rapture in the scriptures, you could check on your own if not too lazy.

In your opinion. I've noticed that those who deny the Rapture never say it is only merely their own opinion.

I disagree. I've been studying the Bible for 30 years now.

I challenge YOU to read the article and point out to me anything that is not Scripturally sound and well-explained.

If you are committed to your own current opinion and understanding first and foremost regarding events, you might have a problem with this.

If you are not committed to your own current opinion and understanding of events first and foremost, but are open to observing and considering wherever a logical reading of events may lead in further learning and understanding,

what can anyone deny or object to here in this simple and logical explanation?

:ohlook:

No. You reveal your utter and complete ignorance.
You have never seen this thread before.
You know nothing about its contents.
Utter and complete ignorance.
Plus arrogant condescension...

This a great article!

If events are to unfold in the way I'm expecting them to, the Rapture will occur latest by the 7th of October 2015.

The Two Witnesses will then start their 1260 Day Ministry by the 10th of October 2015.

Their Ministry will end on the very Day they're killed, in Jerusalem, on Passover, on the 22nd of March 2019 [Day 14 Month 1 Year 6004]

They will rise from the dead, 42 hours later, in 3 1/2 Days, on First-fruits on the 24th of March 2019 [Day 16 Month 1 Year 6004].

Yes.
Stop it. Have you not shown you enough? Have you still learned nothing?

Thank you, ac.

This is the most complete and LOGICAL explanation of the tribulation and rapture I've ever read.

I have NOT been a believer in the pre-trib rapture, but your explanation gives me much food for thought.

Can I ask you a question? And mind you this does not come from a place of hate or animosity for what you have posted....


Why would God spare Christians in the end times through a pre trib rapture if He did not spare His own Son on the Cross?

Shouldn't true followers of Christ delight at the opportunity to suffer and sacrifice in the end times to save lost souls? Wouldn't they be the only hope for those who are lost?

I may be the only one that sees it this way, but Christ's suffering/ sacrifice was necessary for God's plan, as I believe the suffering/ sacrifice of Christians in the end times would be

The Words of Christ Jesus the Messiah from Mark Chapter 13, emphasis and [Notes] added:

1As He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!"

2And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew were questioning Him privately,

4"Tell us, when will these things be, and what [will be] the sign when all these things are going to be fulfilled?"

5And Jesus began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.

6"Many will come in My name, saying, I am [He!]' and will mislead many.

7"When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be frightened; [those things] must take place; but [that is] not yet the end.

8"For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places; there will [also] be famines. These things are [merely] the beginning of birth pangs.

9"But be on your guard; for they will deliver you to [the] courts, and you will be flogged in [the] synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them.

10"The gospel must first be preached to all the nations.

11"When they arrest you and hand you over, do not worry beforehand about what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour; for it is not you who speak, but [it is] the Holy Spirit.

12"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father [his] child; and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death.

13"You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

14"But when you see the Abomination of Desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

15"The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house;

16and the one who is in the field must not turn back to get his coat.

17"But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

18"But pray that it may not happen in the winter.

19"For those days will be a [time of] tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.

20"Unless the Lord had shortened [those] days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. NOTE: If the "elect" were not going to go through the tribulation, then why would there be a need for those days to be shortened "for the sake of the elect???"

21"And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ; or, 'Behold, [He is] there; do not believe [him];

22for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. [NOTE: Again, this is in reference to the tribulation period, and specifically tells 'the elect' not to be deceived by false christs and false prophets.]

23"But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance.

24"But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, 25AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. [NOTE: Jesus specifically says that it will be AFTER that tribulation. Also, compare this to the 6th seal in Revelation].

26"Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

27"And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

28"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.

29"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, [right] at the door.

30"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

31"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

32"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father [alone].

33"Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the [appointed] time will come.

34"[It is] like a man away on a journey, [who] upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, [assigning] to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.

35"Therefore, be on the alert-- for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--

36in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep. 37"What I say to you I say to all, Be on the alert!'"

New American Standard Bible Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, Calif. All rights reserved. For Permission to Quote Information visit [link to www.lockman.org]

No rapture. Can you please tell me how we will be persecuted as spoken of in the bible if we aren't here?

One would never take parts out if a book to try to figure out a story. We have to look at the whole book or books to get the whole story.

What about a fake rapture. What if they take all information and determine who all the real Christians are. They then do a massive kidnapping and dissappear them. There are only a couple hundred thousand real Christians in this country. Just think how the church people would feel. I mean the false Christians in the churches that think they are going to heaven.

You are not promised to be here tomorrow. That has nothing to do with the Rapture.


So you are the one who has the whole story?

Clearly, you very much want to refuse the Rapture.

You are free not to believe the Rapture.

Regardless, if the Rapture is True, the Rapture is True.

If the Rapture is True

and Jesus Christ Himself takes His own true believers to Himself

would any of those true believers in Jesus Christ have been protesting the Rapture?

There's a major flaw in this which is right in front of your faces, but you don't see it. This perpetual error is key to understanding the prophecy.
The article keeps saying "Jews" when the fact is, all Jews are the children of Israel, but NOT ALL Israelites are Jews. The name JEW is a variation of their real name: JUDAH. When God says the 144,000 will come from the descendants of Israel and the 12 Tribes, he does NOT say they are all Jews. Here's what God says:!!!
Revelation 7:4
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

Revelation 7:5
From the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,

Revelation 7:6
from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,

Revelation 7:7
from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,

Revelation 7:8
from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

Jacob (Israel) had twelve sons. As we can see, the 144,000 are taken from the 12 sons/tribes of Israel. One of the tribes, the tribe of Dan, is not picked, and the tribe of Joseph gets a double portion (Joseph and one of his sons, Manasseh). Israel was the name that God gave Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham.

You seem to see some conflict where there is none.

There is no post or pre trib. There will be no tribulation before Christ return.. It happens after and quick. Christ will not be recognized by the mainstream world at his 2nd coming. It will be like the movies.. War of the Worlds.. Independence day.. The US will launch a coalition of nations and armies to fight what they think are aliens from another planet invading. Nearly 100% of the world population think it too as He does not come with his saints as bearded bible characters from the sky. Their sudden defeat (By what they think are aliens) causes a melee of retreating armies across much of the USA destroying many. Christ cuts short their destruction on account of the elected ones.. a mere 144000 unmarried males. Just as Jesus said- there will be no sign or observation. It will be everything as usual.. small wars, bad weather, marrying, music, building, celebrating.. Then like a thief in the night.. unexpected balls of light and crafts of all sorts come down from the sky everywhere

Ask yourself about the will of the Father, not the will of Jesus.

The will of Jesus IS the will of the Father!

God is One Person!

Apostates say otherwise!

Thread: The Lord Jesus Christ is God Himself in the Flesh!

If one would know what will occur during that time, as pertaining to the church, look no further than the gospels. The church is represented by Christ Himself and what happened to Him will happen to the church. His 3.5 year ministry not only fulfilled the law and the prophets but was also a prophecy about His body, the church. For it is clear that the two witnesses appeared with Him on the mount of transfiguration, not long before He was betrayed to death. It is clear that He did not ascend into heaven until after His death and resurrection. The order of events is clearly spelled out in the Olivet Discourse and the fact that true believers will be killed and betrayed is plainly evident.

Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.
Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
Mat 24:8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
Mat 24:12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Many will come in His name saying I am Christian and deceive many. When professing thus comes at the cost of one's property, freedom, or life, the reality of who is or is not a true believer will be plainly evident. Already millions seek some easy way out, not willing to drink the cup, not remembering that they were baptised into His death. 1/12 of the disciples are Judas, 1/12 are Peter, 1/12 are John, etc. These are they that remained, from among the thousands that were fed the loaves and the fishes,who, when they heard they must eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, left off following the Lord, for the requirement was too hard to bear. To them it was said, you seek me not because you saw the signs but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

Know for sure that verse 9 above is coming and for many it is already here. Death comes for every man. Some die for a cause. Most die just because. The first means has greater reward if the cause is true. Hopefully the pretrib rapture folks are correct, but better are those who prepare to die for their faith and are pleasantly surprised, than those who are surprised and have to decide unprepared.