All cause mortality by vax status in england is insane

On a side note I find it funny that this thread is pinned since like 12 hours but there s been only like 5 of us who conversed in it and a few others who did one line reply.

Also trolls were almost inexistent

[imgur] [link to imgur.com (secure)]
[imgur] [link to imgur.com (secure)]

Y'all reading the data wrong.To date, 86% of people over the age of 12 have been vaccinated against Covid, with 79% having received two doses in England and Wales. Of course that the rates are going to be two and three times higher and most of the population is vaccinated.

The chart that I'm going to link averagse deaths from all causes for 2018, 2019, 2020 & 2021. 2018 and 2019 are the baseline. You can compare that next to excessive deaths 20\21 deaths.

People are not dropping like flies like the OP seems to suggest. Excessive deaths right now roughly coincide with the best of actual covid deaths right. This chart would suggest the vaccines actually working.

Now long-term effects of the vaccine I don't know. That's not a point I'm making.

[link to www.statista.com (secure)]

What exactly are you saying in the bolded?
The rates given are all normalized per 100k

So. 2 times higher doesn mean numerically 2 times higher but as double rate per 100k

I'm on a tablet so I couldn't actually see the data. I also didn't see anybody mention that.

Still my graft shows the amount of excessive has been going down since vaccinations not up. It's like two little with their last case Spike. I just don't see a case that you're making.

Venus, I think you may be talking to a bot or paid shill. See his/her next post and note the spelling and syntax.

I've seen his/her initial post in other threads in closely the same wording as if it's scripted.

.

Nice thread.

more comparisons from the data set.
this time 70-79 age group, all cause mortality, unvaxxed vs 1st dose more than 21 days. last number is the mortality per 100k

another clear pattern mortality among those who got 1st does more than 21 days is roughly 3x more than those left unvaccinated




7-May-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 643 204,533 314.4
14-May-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 465 126,789 366.8
21-May-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 370 94,245 392.6
28-May-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 339 72,540 467.3
4-Jun-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 274 62,353 439.4
11-Jun-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 232 53,396 434.5
18-Jun-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 188 47,275 397.7
25-Jun-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 182 43,235 421.0
2-Jul-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 144 40,488 355.7
9-Jul-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 130 38,913 334.1
16-Jul-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 110 37,375 294.3
23-Jul-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 109 36,192 301.2
30-Jul-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 105 35,087 299.3
6-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 65 34,094 190.6
13-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 82 33,335 246.0
20-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 58 32,624 177.8
27-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 62 31,803 195.0
3-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 57 31,412 181.5
10-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 70 30,983 225.9
17-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 51 30,570 166.8
24-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 70-79 46 30,078 152.9



7-May-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 147 146,907 100.1
14-May-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 164 144,132 113.8
21-May-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 156 141,892 109.9
28-May-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 114 140,124 81.4
4-Jun-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 116 139,165 83.4
11-Jun-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 120 137,950 87.0
18-Jun-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 112 136,806 81.9
25-Jun-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 102 135,901 75.1
2-Jul-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 108 135,076 80.0
9-Jul-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 82 134,378 61.0
16-Jul-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 84 133,710 62.8
23-Jul-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 107 133,179 80.3
30-Jul-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 99 132,742 74.6
6-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 95 132,388 71.8
13-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 83 132,040 62.9
20-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 113 131,779 85.7
27-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 100 131,503 76.0
3-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 110 131,334 83.8
10-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 125 131,158 95.3
17-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 87 130,991 66.4
24-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 70-79 78 130,806 59.6

Last Edited by VenusRose on 11/06/2021 09:24 AM

also those that made it past 2nd those. They have lower mortality roughly 2x less than unvaccinated, and 10x less than those in between 1st and 2nd dose

7-May-21 Second dose 70-79 929 3,939,496 23.6
14-May-21 Second dose 70-79 1,078 4,022,892 26.8
21-May-21 Second dose 70-79 1,144 4,059,855 28.2
28-May-21 Second dose 70-79 1,202 4,085,758 29.4
4-Jun-21 Second dose 70-79 1,317 4,100,247 32.1
11-Jun-21 Second dose 70-79 1,338 4,113,671 32.5
18-Jun-21 Second dose 70-79 1,354 4,123,838 32.8
25-Jun-21 Second dose 70-79 1,376 4,131,034 33.3
2-Jul-21 Second dose 70-79 1,560 4,137,307 37.7
9-Jul-21 Second dose 70-79 1,527 4,141,977 36.9
16-Jul-21 Second dose 70-79 1,520 4,146,156 36.7
23-Jul-21 Second dose 70-79 1,770 4,150,501 42.6
30-Jul-21 Second dose 70-79 1,652 4,153,746 39.8
6-Aug-21 Second dose 70-79 1,577 4,157,055 37.9
13-Aug-21 Second dose 70-79 1,619 4,159,687 38.9
20-Aug-21 Second dose 70-79 1,656 4,162,177 39.8
27-Aug-21 Second dose 70-79 1,682 4,164,566 40.4
3-Sep-21 Second dose 70-79 1,646 4,166,451 39.5
10-Sep-21 Second dose 70-79 1,876 4,168,392 45.0
17-Sep-21 Second dose 70-79 1,695 4,170,003 40.6
24-Sep-21 Second dose 70-79 1,553 4,171,936 37.2

I couldn’t understand Opies original numbers. So I’ll make it simple. Deaths per 100k population for age 10-59

unvaxxed 26.6
vaxxed 2.2

So per the UK data opie linked to it shows unvaxxed dieing at 10x the rate of vaxxed.

Now for age 80+ it’s a different story

unvaxxed 2.7
vaxxed 157.4

So if your over 80 and jabbed your more than 50x likely to die.

The data shows a somewhat complicated picture. Under 60 year olds unvaxxed die at 10x rate of vaxxed. Vaxed over 80 year olds die at 50x the rate of unvaxxed.

So my conclusion is the vax protects younger folks and kills the older folks.

here's a comparison for 80+ using both covid and all cause and deducting to also get NON-COVID deaths


this is covid deaths for 2 doses:

6-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 145 2,426,801 6
13-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 162 2,428,869 6.7
20-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 187 2,430,754 7.7
27-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 239 2,432,584 9.8
3-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 237 2,434,299 9.7
10-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 294 2,435,944 12.1
17-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 262 2,437,192 10.8
24-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 243 2,439,328 10


around 10 deaths per 100k

now this is all deaths for 2 doses:

6-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 3,953 2,426,801 162.9
13-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 4,014 2,428,869 165.3
20-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 4,011 2,430,754 165.0
27-Aug-21 Second dose 80+ 3,996 2,432,584 164.3
3-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 4,032 2,434,299 165.6
10-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 4,567 2,435,944 187.5
17-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 4,000 2,437,192 164.1
24-Sep-21 Second dose 80+ 3,839 2,439,328 157.4

around 160 deaths per 100k.

so we get around 150 NON-covid deaths for 2 doses 80+ age




Now, for unvaxxed:

6-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 31 70,501 44
13-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 30 70,228 42.7
20-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 29 69,996 41.4
27-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 42 69,745 60.2
3-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 34 69,573 48.9
10-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 42 69,366 60.5
17-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 32 69,200 46.2
24-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 28 69,021 40.6

around 50 covid deaths per 100k


all cause deaths:

6-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 192 70,501 272.3
13-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 166 70,228 236.4
20-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 168 69,996 240.0
27-Aug-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 198 69,745 283.9
3-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 184 69,573 264.5
10-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 193 69,366 278.2
17-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 174 69,200 251.4
24-Sep-21 Unvaccinated 80+ 148 69,021 214.4


around 250 deaths per 100k all cause

so for unvaxxed we get around 200 NON-COVID deaths per 100k



now for first dose 21 days and more:

covid deaths:
6-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 6 26,880 22.3
13-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 11 26,268 41.9
20-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 7 25,748 27.2
27-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 3 25,229 11.9
3-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 4 24,940 16
10-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 8 24,671 32.4
17-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 8 24,458 32.7
24-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 11 24,113 45.6

around 30 covid deaths per 100k

now all cause deaths:

6-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 158 26,880 587.8
13-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 146 26,268 555.8
20-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 127 25,748 493.2
27-Aug-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 103 25,229 408.3
3-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 112 24,940 449.1
10-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 114 24,671 462.1
17-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 107 24,458 437.5
24-Sep-21 21 days or more after first dose 80+ 92 24,113 381.5


about 450! all cause deaths per 100k for 1st dose 21+

so for those with 1 dose left 21+ days we get NON-COVID deaths around 420 per 100k



so to sum it up for non covid deaths in the august-september period


unvaxxed - 200 deaths per 100k
one dose 21 days or more - 420 deaths per 100k
2 doses - 150 deaths per 100k

so again the same pattern:
those that got 1 dose die at double rate than unvaxxed,
but those that made it past 2nd dose have the lowest mortality rate

hmm where exactly did you get those numbers?

another interesting comparison for the big group 10-59

here i will just cross-compare groups in different periods when they still have significant share of the population

this are the unvaxxed till they were at least 40% of population:

8-Jan-21 1 Unvaccinated 10-59 991 26,822,400 98.1 3.7
15-Jan-21 2 Unvaccinated 10-59 1,064 26,382,353 96.5 4.0
22-Jan-21 3 Unvaccinated 10-59 1,071 25,883,217 94.7 4.1
29-Jan-21 4 Unvaccinated 10-59 940 25,426,420 93 3.7
5-Feb-21 5 Unvaccinated 10-59 898 25,027,294 91.6 3.6
12-Feb-21 6 Unvaccinated 10-59 786 24,560,946 89.9 3.2
19-Feb-21 7 Unvaccinated 10-59 715 23,836,449 87.2 3.0
26-Feb-21 8 Unvaccinated 10-59 564 22,789,777 83.4 2.5
5-Mar-21 9 Unvaccinated 10-59 493 21,943,381 80.3 2.2
12-Mar-21 10 Unvaccinated 10-59 455 21,134,906 77.4 2.2
19-Mar-21 11 Unvaccinated 10-59 367 19,205,753 70.3 1.9
26-Mar-21 12 Unvaccinated 10-59 321 17,445,934 63.9 1.8
2-Apr-21 13 Unvaccinated 10-59 263 16,427,186 60.2 1.6
9-Apr-21 14 Unvaccinated 10-59 221 16,200,785 59.4 1.4
16-Apr-21 15 Unvaccinated 10-59 233 15,839,558 58.1 1.5
23-Apr-21 16 Unvaccinated 10-59 211 15,336,442 56.3 1.4
30-Apr-21 17 Unvaccinated 10-59 192 14,946,544 54.9 1.3
7-May-21 18 Unvaccinated 10-59 167 14,476,853 53.2 1.2
14-May-21 19 Unvaccinated 10-59 159 13,857,629 50.9 1.1
21-May-21 20 Unvaccinated 10-59 171 13,039,777 47.9 1.3
28-May-21 21 Unvaccinated 10-59 130 12,323,898 45.3 1.1
4-Jun-21 22 Unvaccinated 10-59 125 11,832,842 43.5 1.1
11-Jun-21 23 Unvaccinated 10-59 121 11,238,256 41.4 1.1


they had 3-4 per 100k during jan-feb once there was the big death spike across all ages. Then till June they went as low as 1.1 and all values were between 1-2


these are those in first 21 days after they got 1st dose, as long as they were above 5%

19-Feb-21 7 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 95 1,585,561 5.8 6.0
26-Feb-21 8 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 104 2,233,629 8.2 4.7
5-Mar-21 9 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 86 2,613,968 9.6 3.3
12-Mar-21 10 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 81 2,699,353 9.9 3.0
19-Mar-21 11 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 68 3,582,118 13.1 1.9
26-Mar-21 12 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 86 4,494,848 16.5 1.9
2-Apr-21 13 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 70 4,698,057 17.2 1.5
9-Apr-21 14 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 52 2,988,280 11 1.7
16-Apr-21 15 Within 21 days of first dose 10-59 27 1,574,762 5.8 1.7


comparing with same period of unvaxxed the mortality was higher for those who had the jab.
for example in 26 feb week, freshly jabbed had 4.7 death rate, unjabbed had 2.5 death rate


now 1st dose 21 days or more as long as they were at least 20% of the population:

2-Apr-21 13 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 269 4,899,612 18 5.5
9-Apr-21 14 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 303 6,396,912 23.5 4.7
16-Apr-21 15 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 311 7,704,635 28.3 4.0
23-Apr-21 16 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 345 8,265,686 30.3 4.2
30-Apr-21 17 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 304 8,018,946 29.4 3.8
7-May-21 18 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 276 7,689,369 28.2 3.6
14-May-21 19 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 290 7,156,665 26.3 4.1
21-May-21 20 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 246 6,482,246 23.8 3.8
28-May-21 21 21 days or more after first dose 10-59 210 5,497,830 20.2 3.8

death rate was around 4 per 100k every week (apr-may)
in same period unvaxxed had between 1.6-1.1 death rate


and double jabbed as long as they were at least 30% of the population:

21-May-21 20 Second dose 10-59 190 5,779,050 21.2 3.3
28-May-21 21 Second dose 10-59 220 7,220,792 26.6 3.0
4-Jun-21 22 Second dose 10-59 228 8,454,397 31.1 2.7
11-Jun-21 23 Second dose 10-59 277 9,770,659 36 2.8
18-Jun-21 24 Second dose 10-59 285 10,668,457 39.3 2.7
25-Jun-21 25 Second dose 10-59 345 11,264,119 41.5 3.1
2-Jul-21 26 Second dose 10-59 336 11,878,770 43.8 2.8
9-Jul-21 27 Second dose 10-59 355 12,468,952 46 2.8
16-Jul-21 28 Second dose 10-59 340 13,105,121 48.4 2.6
23-Jul-21 29 Second dose 10-59 403 13,743,102 50.7 2.9
30-Jul-21 30 Second dose 10-59 411 14,308,774 52.8 2.9
6-Aug-21 31 Second dose 10-59 381 14,862,577 54.9 2.6
13-Aug-21 32 Second dose 10-59 405 15,487,715 57.3 2.6
20-Aug-21 33 Second dose 10-59 399 16,130,673 59.7 2.5
27-Aug-21 34 Second dose 10-59 366 16,716,007 61.8 2.2
3-Sep-21 35 Second dose 10-59 399 17,133,651 63.4 2.3
10-Sep-21 36 Second dose 10-59 477 17,493,725 64.8 2.7
17-Sep-21 37 Second dose 10-59 394 17,750,109 65.8 2.2
24-Sep-21 38 Second dose 10-59 400 17,924,346 66.4 2.2

rate is between 3.3 - 2.2 for the period (may-september)

in comparison in same period unvaxxed had death rates between 1.1-1.6

interesting stat for july 2021 in wales, top leading causes of death



Cause Rank in July 2021 Number of deaths in July 2021
Dementia and Alzheimer disease 1st 282
Ischaemic heart diseases 2nd 277
Chronic lower respiratory diseases 3rd 173
Cerebrovascular diseases 4th 153
Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung 5th 132
Influenza and Pneumonia 6th 93
Malignant neoplasm of colon, sigmoid, rectum and anus 7th 76
Symptoms, signs and ill-defined conditions 8th 73
Malignant neoplasms, stated or presumed to be primary of lymphoid, haematopoietic and related tissue 9th 56
Cirrhosis and other diseases of liver 10th 55
Malignant neoplasm of prostate 11th 54
Diseases of the urinary system 12th 51
Heart failure and complications and ill-defined heart disease 13th 45
Malignant neoplasm of pancreas 14th 43
Parkinson disease 15th 38
Malignant neoplasm of breast 16th 36
Cardiac arrhythmias 17th 35
Diabetes 18th 35
Nonrheumatic valve disorders and endocarditis 19th 35
Pulmonary oedema and other interstitial pulmonary diseases 20th 35
Malignant neoplasm of oesophagus 21st 34
COVID-19 22nd 33


same for england:

Cause Rank in July 2021 Number of deaths in July 2021
Dementia and Alzheimer's disease 1st 4,404
Ischaemic heart diseases 2nd 4,062
Malignant neoplasm of trachea, bronchus and lung 3rd 2,196
Cerebrovascular diseases 4th 2,148
Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5th 2,024
Malignant neoplasm of colon, sigmoid, rectum and anus 6th 1,216
Influenza and Pneumonia 7th 1,141
Symptoms, signs and ill-defined conditions 8th 1,129
COVID-19 9th 969

a hyperlink on the same site says the exact opposite:

1.Main points

Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals.

The weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19 were consistently lower for people who had received two vaccinations compared with one or no vaccinations.

ASMRs take into account differences in age structure and population size to allow comparisons between vaccination status groups; however some differences between the groups such as health status may remain and partly explain the differences in ASMRs... [link to www.ons.gov.uk (secure)]

of course it says so, that's why i'm looking at raw data not at their political interpretations

this in an example of political recommendations on how data SHOULD be interpreted to fit the agenda

[link to osr.statisticsauthority.gov.uk (secure)]

"We focused on the risk that the data presented on rates of positive cases for those who are vaccinated and those who are unvaccinated have the potential to mislead – and indeed we noted that these data have been used to argue that vaccines are ineffective."

"One possibility would be to only publish rates in the vaccinated population, which are known accurately, but I recognise your concern that you are already publishing rates for both groups."

"In the meantime, you should consider setting out these uncertainties more clearly, including by publishing the rates per 100,000 using both denominators, and making clear in the table, perhaps through formatting, that the column showing case rates in unvaccinated people is of particular concern."

clear case of how political body recommends the data to be presented in certain manner to push their agenda, and to eliminate data that could be interpreted in the opposite way

Well done OP.
I re-organised the ONS sheets and colour-coded them...

Thanks OP

we knew, but now we know.

This is great work, thanks.

My focus is why, since early June when the number of unjabbed over 60s has remained pretty static, has their all-cause mortality rate NOT risen despite the reported deaths from covid in this group quintupling?

And furthermore why has the all-cause mortality rate for the double jabbed over 60s risen by 30%? This may be explained by waning vaccine efficacy but covid deaths in this group only account for less than half of the 30% rise?

Last Edited by Diffster on 11/07/2021 12:11 PM

thx for this bro