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Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!

 
Outis
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Re-outis

Yes, I got that but I was just saying he didn’t stay in the wilderness, he went to Valinor, The blessed realm. In my humble opinion… Heaven. So to speak. wink
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81313195


You do seem qualified to analyze LOTR! Yes, as I'm sure you know, Valinor IS Heaven, and Tolkien based his mythology on Roman Catholic ideas. Morgoth in The Silmarillion is Lucifer, or Satan, and Sauron was his second-in-command who became the Satan of a later age. The Valar are archangels, the Maiar, such as Gandalf and Saruman are lesser angels. I'm sure you knew all that...
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Oops; I meant Copperegla, though I'm sure you are both qualified to analyze LOTR!
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 11:11 AM

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Re-outis

Yes, I got that but I was just saying he didn’t stay in the wilderness, he went to Valinor, The blessed realm. In my humble opinion… Heaven. So to speak. wink
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81313195


You do seem qualified to analyze LOTR! Yes, as I'm sure you know, Valinor IS Heaven, and Tolkien based his mythology on Roman Catholic ideas. Morgoth in The Silmarillion is Lucifer, or Satan, and Sauron was his second-in-command who became the Satan of a later age. The Valar are archangels, the Maiar, such as Gandalf and Saruman are lesser angels. I'm sure you knew all that...
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Valinor is like the Garden of Eden, especially applied to Bilbo and Frodo who are hobbits and love gardens where they feel at home.

Valinor was originally on Arda (earth) in the first ages and guarded by angels (just like the garden of Eden). But after the great battle with Morgoth (satan), it was hidden inside an unseen or spiritual realm.

The changed forms of Morgoth and Sauron are illustrative of their characters. Satan begins an angel of light, and is of such esteem he can walk in heaven and accuse men, then eventually satan is cast out with other angels. He grows in influence from a worm into a dragon.
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Outis
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09/22/2022 11:11 AM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
Outis
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09/22/2022 11:13 AM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Re-outis

Yes, I got that but I was just saying he didn’t stay in the wilderness, he went to Valinor, The blessed realm. In my humble opinion… Heaven. So to speak. wink
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81313195


You do seem qualified to analyze LOTR! Yes, as I'm sure you know, Valinor IS Heaven, and Tolkien based his mythology on Roman Catholic ideas. Morgoth in The Silmarillion is Lucifer, or Satan, and Sauron was his second-in-command who became the Satan of a later age. The Valar are archangels, the Maiar, such as Gandalf and Saruman are lesser angels. I'm sure you knew all that...
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Valinor is like the Garden of Eden, especially applied to Bilbo and Frodo who are hobbits and love gardens where they feel at home.

Valinor was originally on Arda (earth) in the first ages and guarded by angels (just like the garden of Eden). But after the great battle with Morgoth (satan), it was hidden inside an unseen or spiritual realm.

The changed forms of Morgoth and Sauron are illustrative of their characters. Satan begins an angel of light, and is of such esteem he can walk in heaven and accuse men, then eventually satan is cast out with other angels. He grows in influence from a worm into a dragon.
 Quoting: Copperegla


Good God, you're better than me on my favorite book! Kudos!
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 11:22 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


The Yeshua/Jesus character is clearly Aragorn. Born a man (but with eternal blood of elves in his deep lineage) and rightful heir to the kingdom. Born into a fallen world that does not recognize him. Lives as Strider among sinners. Fulfils a great mission, casting out demons, healing people, and protecting his people though they know it not fully. With his great sword he enters the mountain of death and preaches to the dead. Alights from the mountain alive, commanding the dead, and defeats the enemy in battle to regain the great city. In his final test of faith, he storms the black gate and is victorious. He is crowned king and his bride is eternal.
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Outis
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09/22/2022 11:26 AM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Really, Copperegla, I think Valinor is a combination of Heaven and the garden of Eden. It is an unspoiled realm, not like this middle-earth, where greed and materialism ruin everything, even though there is much beauty here.
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 11:27 AM

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Re-outis

Yes, I got that but I was just saying he didn’t stay in the wilderness, he went to Valinor, The blessed realm. In my humble opinion… Heaven. So to speak. wink
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 81313195


You do seem qualified to analyze LOTR! Yes, as I'm sure you know, Valinor IS Heaven, and Tolkien based his mythology on Roman Catholic ideas. Morgoth in The Silmarillion is Lucifer, or Satan, and Sauron was his second-in-command who became the Satan of a later age. The Valar are archangels, the Maiar, such as Gandalf and Saruman are lesser angels. I'm sure you knew all that...
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Valinor is like the Garden of Eden, especially applied to Bilbo and Frodo who are hobbits and love gardens where they feel at home.

Valinor was originally on Arda (earth) in the first ages and guarded by angels (just like the garden of Eden). But after the great battle with Morgoth (satan), it was hidden inside an unseen or spiritual realm.

The changed forms of Morgoth and Sauron are illustrative of their characters. Satan begins an angel of light, and is of such esteem he can walk in heaven and accuse men, then eventually satan is cast out with other angels. He grows in influence from a worm into a dragon.
 Quoting: Copperegla


Good God, you're better than me on my favorite book! Kudos!
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


That is high praise, thank you.

My favorite Tolkien quote is from The Children of Hurin (page 42), "A man who flies from his fear may find that he has only taken a short cut to meet it."

Tolkien's maps are also filled with meaning.
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
T-Man
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09/22/2022 11:28 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
so this is a gathering of Tolkien fans?
whats the general consensus about the new woke show that goes against everything Tolkien stands for?
Outis
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09/22/2022 11:29 AM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


The Yeshua/Jesus character is clearly Aragorn. Born a man (but with eternal blood of elves in his deep lineage) and rightful heir to the kingdom. Born into a fallen world that does not recognize him. Lives as Strider among sinners. Fulfils a great mission, casting out demons, healing people, and protecting his people though they know it not fully. With his great sword he enters the mountain of death and preaches to the dead. Alights from the mountain alive, commanding the dead, and defeats the enemy in battle to regain the great city. In his final test of faith, he storms the black gate and is victorious. He is crowned king and his bride is eternal.
 Quoting: Copperegla


You might be right about that; as I said, you are a bit better at analyzing LOTR than me. What, in your opinion, is Frodo?
amplified2
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09/22/2022 11:33 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Ever notice Frodo's similarity to the scapegoat in the Old Testament?

But Tolkien added a twist...
 Quoting: Copperegla


J. R. R. Tolkien was a political writer. His friend C.S. Lewis was the religious writer.

They really pushed each other toward what would become Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia.

While their love of fantasy and Norse folklore was the root of these stories; the books are entwined with their theology.
The Chronicles being a religious tale and Lord of the rings had political roots.
amplified2
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09/22/2022 11:34 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Prop up your hairy foots, load your pipe with the best old Toby you can find, pour a half pint and enjoy your day!!!!
Here’s a Happy Birthday toast to Bilbo and Frodo and all you that share this day!
And me! ohyeah smile_kiss dasbier
 Quoting: Fossy


I would think December 21 would be Hobbit Day... But I guess not
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 11:36 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Really, Copperegla, I think Valinor is a combination of Heaven and the garden of Eden. It is an unspoiled realm, not like this middle-earth, where greed and materialism ruin everything, even though there is much beauty here.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Recall 1 Kings 8:2, referring to the "heavens of the heavens". See also Enoch. Like the bible, in Tolkien's narrative there are multiple layers of heaven.

As we read in the first chapters of Silmarillion (Ainulindale and Valaquenta), there are multiple layers of the realms navigated by the Ainur. Eru creator of all allowed the Ainur to enter the new world (Arda) they had sung. The creation of special gardens is attributed in part to Yavanna.

Tolkien would have spoken these words constantly, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Outis
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09/22/2022 11:41 AM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Ever notice Frodo's similarity to the scapegoat in the Old Testament?

But Tolkien added a twist...
 Quoting: Copperegla


J. R. R. Tolkien was a political writer. His friend C.S. Lewis was the religious writer.

They really pushed each other toward what would become Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia.

While their love of fantasy and Norse folklore was the root of these stories; the books are entwined with their theology.
The Chronicles being a religious tale and Lord of the rings had political roots.
 Quoting: amplified2


Tolkien converted C.S. Lewis to Christianity. Lewis had been an agnostic, and thought the Eastern religions were better, if one had to have religion at all (spirituality is better than religion anyway, if you want to know my opinion).

C.S. Lewis became a member of the Church of England rather than a Roman Catholic, somewhat to Tolkien's horror...
Fossy  (OP)
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09/22/2022 11:57 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
so this is a gathering of Tolkien fans?
whats the general consensus about the new woke show that goes against everything Tolkien stands for?
 Quoting: T-Man


I really wanted to see Laurelin and Telperion. They gave us only a glimpse from afar as they died. I was kinda horrified. I just consider the Rings fan fiction which I love but I don’t love the Rings. I will watch out of curiosity though.
There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing

My Skyrim fanfic... NSFW because of the sex.
[link to archiveofourown.org (secure)]
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 11:58 AM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


The Yeshua/Jesus character is clearly Aragorn. Born a man (but with eternal blood of elves in his deep lineage) and rightful heir to the kingdom. Born into a fallen world that does not recognize him. Lives as Strider among sinners. Fulfils a great mission, casting out demons, healing people, and protecting his people though they know it not fully. With his great sword he enters the mountain of death and preaches to the dead. Alights from the mountain alive, commanding the dead, and defeats the enemy in battle to regain the great city. In his final test of faith, he storms the black gate and is victorious. He is crowned king and his bride is eternal.
 Quoting: Copperegla


You might be right about that; as I said, you are a bit better at analyzing LOTR than me. What, in your opinion, is Frodo?
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


When a lot is cast, it has two sides.

Frodo is the likeable side of the scapegoat, and Gollum is the unlikeable side. Together they fulfill one purpose. In Leviticus translated into English, the scapegoat is called a "buck", but in the original Hebrew that word is pronounced "Shire" (ShEayr). GLP doesn't let me type Hebrew, but you can see it here: [link to biblehub.com (secure)]

In Frodo's family tree, he is a Brandybuck.

Frankly, I don't know if Tolkien knew the full extent to which God was using him.

There are many wordplays in Leviticus 16.

Tolkien's word for ring (written in the black speech of Tengwar) was nazg. That puts the Hebrew word for goat (az) right in the middle.

Indeed, the Hebrew word for scapegoat is like saying goat twice: azazel, which just so happens to be the same name as the leader of the fallen angels. [link to biblehub.com (secure)]
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Fossy  (OP)
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09/22/2022 12:04 PM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


The Yeshua/Jesus character is clearly Aragorn. Born a man (but with eternal blood of elves in his deep lineage) and rightful heir to the kingdom. Born into a fallen world that does not recognize him. Lives as Strider among sinners. Fulfils a great mission, casting out demons, healing people, and protecting his people though they know it not fully. With his great sword he enters the mountain of death and preaches to the dead. Alights from the mountain alive, commanding the dead, and defeats the enemy in battle to regain the great city. In his final test of faith, he storms the black gate and is victorious. He is crowned king and his bride is eternal.
 Quoting: Copperegla


You might be right about that; as I said, you are a bit better at analyzing LOTR than me. What, in your opinion, is Frodo?
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


When a lot is cast, it has two sides.

Frodo is the likeable side of the scapegoat, and Gollum is the unlikeable side. Together they fulfill one purpose. In Leviticus translated into English, the scapegoat is called a "buck", but in the original Hebrew that word is pronounced "Shire" (ShEayr). GLP doesn't let me type Hebrew, but you can see it here: [link to biblehub.com (secure)]

In Frodo's family tree, he is a Brandybuck.

Frankly, I don't know if Tolkien knew the full extent to which God was using him.

There are many wordplays in Leviticus 16.

Tolkien's word for ring (written in the black speech of Tengwar) was nazg. That puts the Hebrew word for goat (az) right in the middle.

Indeed, the Hebrew word for scapegoat is like saying goat twice: azazel, which just so happens to be the same name as the leader of the fallen angels. [link to biblehub.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Copperegla


Excellent! I love this!!!
There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing

My Skyrim fanfic... NSFW because of the sex.
[link to archiveofourown.org (secure)]
Outis
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09/22/2022 12:12 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Also, though Frodo is a bit like a Jesus/Yeshua figure, there is that inevitable Tolkien Twist; he almost fails in his mission, attempting to claim the ring, as if the New Testament Jesus had given up to The Satan at the end of his quest. He was saved by Gollum in the end; an evil creature corrupted by the ring, and indeed the sacrificial goat of the novel, as Frodo is the scapegoat.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


The Yeshua/Jesus character is clearly Aragorn. Born a man (but with eternal blood of elves in his deep lineage) and rightful heir to the kingdom. Born into a fallen world that does not recognize him. Lives as Strider among sinners. Fulfils a great mission, casting out demons, healing people, and protecting his people though they know it not fully. With his great sword he enters the mountain of death and preaches to the dead. Alights from the mountain alive, commanding the dead, and defeats the enemy in battle to regain the great city. In his final test of faith, he storms the black gate and is victorious. He is crowned king and his bride is eternal.
 Quoting: Copperegla


You might be right about that; as I said, you are a bit better at analyzing LOTR than me. What, in your opinion, is Frodo?
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


When a lot is cast, it has two sides.

Frodo is the likeable side of the scapegoat, and Gollum is the unlikeable side. Together they fulfill one purpose. In Leviticus translated into English, the scapegoat is called a "buck", but in the original Hebrew that word is pronounced "Shire" (ShEayr). GLP doesn't let me type Hebrew, but you can see it here: [link to biblehub.com (secure)]

In Frodo's family tree, he is a Brandybuck.

Frankly, I don't know if Tolkien knew the full extent to which God was using him.

There are many wordplays in Leviticus 16.

Tolkien's word for ring (written in the black speech of Tengwar) was nazg. That puts the Hebrew word for goat (az) right in the middle.

Indeed, the Hebrew word for scapegoat is like saying goat twice: azazel, which just so happens to be the same name as the leader of the fallen angels. [link to biblehub.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Copperegla


You are a gentleman and a scholar, and I'm not just saying that.

clappa
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09/22/2022 12:14 PM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
dancingmoving
#DefundTheBBC
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2022 12:28 PM
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 Quoting: Zoinkaeon


I wonder if Tolkien was aware of this.

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 12:34 PM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
In Leviticus, the priest is Aaron who puts the sin on the head of the scapegoat. In LOTR, it is Elrond who puts the ring on Frodo.

The entire purpose of the scapegoat is this Hebrew word: kpr. It has a dual meaning: deny/atone.

It is the same word used in the gospel, where Peter denies the Messiah three times, and therefore he must atone three times (John 21).

The Frodo/Gollum duality fulfill this purpose: Frodo atones while Gollum denies.

It is in the death of denial (kpr) that we learn to atone (kpr).

The day of kpr (Yom Kippur) is considered the holiest day of the year in the bible. This year (2022) it is celebrated on October 5. In Leviticus it was the one day that the head priest (Aaron) was allowed to enter the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle (a 15 foot cube room). Anyone else would die.

Remember when Elrond and Isildur entered Mt. Doom together. Isildur ended up dead (days later when the Ring slipped from his finger), but Elrond lived.

Mt. Doom is a picture of the corrupted temple. When Arda was first formed, Mt. Doom was likely beautiful and lush, probably with a name that preceded even Orodruin. But in later days, Mt. Doom was corrupted by the enemy. In the Hebrew bible, there are many passages that refer to the darkness that transpired in the temple. See e.g. Ezekiel.

Later, Sam and Frodo, followed by Gollum, enter Mt. Doom. Like priests themselves (remember they were commissioned by Elrond), the final test of faith is manifested, and Gollum falls.

Samwise fulfilled his duty to his friend, even carrying him up the mountain in the end. Frodo got as far as he could, he did the best he could. If Frodo had the inherent power to accomplish the mission without his darker side Gollum, it would have undermined the essential role of God (only God saves).

The journey of Frodo and Sam resonates with us today because we see in the story the essentialness of faith, and the works that result from faith. Each character was faithful to something, and the Lord over all worked it to good, and Aragorn was crowned king to begin the fourth age.
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Outis
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09/22/2022 12:37 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
 Quoting: Zoinkaeon


I wonder if Tolkien was aware of this.

[link to en.m.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77332647


He was a Roman Catholic; very conservative in his religious views, though he was friends with W.H. Auden, and must have known he was gay.

He was a man, a real man, and spoke twenty languages or so.
Outis
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09/22/2022 12:50 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
In Leviticus, the priest is Aaron who puts the sin on the head of the scapegoat. In LOTR, it is Elrond who puts the ring on Frodo.

The entire purpose of the scapegoat is this Hebrew word: kpr. It has a dual meaning: deny/atone.

It is the same word used in the gospel, where Peter denies the Messiah three times, and therefore he must atone three times (John 21).

The Frodo/Gollum duality fulfill this purpose: Frodo atones while Gollum denies.

It is in the death of denial (kpr) that we learn to atone (kpr).

The day of kpr (Yom Kippur) is considered the holiest day of the year in the bible. This year (2022) it is celebrated on October 5. In Leviticus it was the one day that the head priest (Aaron) was allowed to enter the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle (a 15 foot cube room). Anyone else would die.

Remember when Elrond and Isildur entered Mt. Doom together. Isildur ended up dead (days later when the Ring slipped from his finger), but Elrond lived.

Mt. Doom is a picture of the corrupted temple. When Arda was first formed, Mt. Doom was likely beautiful and lush, probably with a name that preceded even Orodruin. But in later days, Mt. Doom was corrupted by the enemy. In the Hebrew bible, there are many passages that refer to the darkness that transpired in the temple. See e.g. Ezekiel.

Later, Sam and Frodo, followed by Gollum, enter Mt. Doom. Like priests themselves (remember they were commissioned by Elrond), the final test of faith is manifested, and Gollum falls.

Samwise fulfilled his duty to his friend, even carrying him up the mountain in the end. Frodo got as far as he could, he did the best he could. If Frodo had the inherent power to accomplish the mission without his darker side Gollum, it would have undermined the essential role of God (only God saves).

The journey of Frodo and Sam resonates with us today because we see in the story the essentialness of faith, and the works that result from faith. Each character was faithful to something, and the Lord over all worked it to good, and Aragorn was crowned king to begin the fourth age.
 Quoting: Copperegla


Again, you are awesome at analyzing this book, and your Bible knowledge is impressive. Carry on; I wish you only the best in your journey!
Outis
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09/22/2022 01:05 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Answer me this, Copperegla; who is Judas in LOTR? I'm thinking Saruman, but you probably have a better answer.
Outis
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Answer me this, Copperegla; who is Judas in LOTR? I'm thinking Saruman, but you probably have a better answer.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


...or possibly Boromir...

5a
Copperegla

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Answer me this, Copperegla; who is Judas in LOTR? I'm thinking Saruman, but you probably have a better answer.

...or possibly Boromir...

 Quoting: Outis 83935765


It cannot be Saruman because he represents a fallen angel, just like Gandalf represents a good angel.

I think Boromir is correct for Judas. In the original language, Judas was called Yehuda.

Like an apostle (sent on a mission), Boromir was chosen to be in the small company of Aragorn (Yeshua). Boromir's family (Yehuda) held stewardship over Gondor (Israel). Boromir wanted to seize the ring (Judas held the purse, and sold out in the end for 30 pieces of silver), and though Boromir repented (as Judas did) he still died cruelly by wooden arrows (Judas suicide on a tree).

Faramir, the brother of Boromir (Yehuda), valiantly accepted Aragorn (Yeshua) as the rightful king of Gondor. Faramir's father Denethor (representing the greater tribe ruling Yehuda) rejected Aragorn as king. Indeed, this makes Denethor like Herod.

Last Edited by Copperegla on 09/22/2022 01:57 PM
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
Outis
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09/22/2022 01:49 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Answer me this, Copperegla; who is Judas in LOTR? I'm thinking Saruman, but you probably have a better answer.

...or possibly Boromir...

 Quoting: Outis 83935765


It cannot be Saruman because he represents a fallen angel, just like Gandalf represents a good angel.

I think Boromir is correct for Judas. In the original language, Judas was called Yehuda.

Like an apostle (sent on a mission), Boromir was chosen to be in the small company of Aragorn (Yeshua). Boromir's family (Yehuda) held stewardship over Gondor (Israel). Boromir wanted to seize the ring (Judas held the purse, and sold out in the end for 30 pieces of silver), and though Boromir repented (as Judas did) he still died cruelly by wooden arrows (Judas suicide on a tree).

Faramir, the brother of Boromir (Yehuda), valiantly accepted Aragorn (Yeshua) as the rightful king of Gondor. Faramir's father Denethor (representing the greater tribe ruling Yehuda) rejected Aragorn as king.
 Quoting: Copperegla


Yup, that's right. At least I reconsidered and figured Boromir for Judas over Saruman when I thought about it.

Tolkien said he hated allegory, and just wanted to tell a ripping good story. This is not completely true, just as hobbit is not really related to rabbit (of course, it is).
Outis
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09/22/2022 01:55 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Copperegla, there really are many levels in this book. From the human, or hobbit existence, to the semi-divine, or even divine.
Anonymous Coward
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09/22/2022 01:57 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!

 Quoting: javierruizleon


Amazing.... Good share. Happy hobbits day. :)
Copperegla

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09/22/2022 01:58 PM

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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Copperegla, there really are many levels in this book. From the human, or hobbit existence, to the semi-divine, or even divine.
 Quoting: Outis 83935765


Definitely. The dualities in particular are striking.

Gollum is to Frodo
as
Boromir is to Aragorn
as
Saruman is to Gandalf
as
Melkor is to Manwe
as
Sauron is to Aule

In each duality, the destruction of the dark side proves the valor of the light. This is the duality of kpr ("deny/atone").
Matthew 7:2 & 7:12 are a prophecy specific to you, "By the judgment that you judge, you will be judged. And by the measure that you measure, you will be measured.... Whatever you want a person to do to you, do also to them, for this is the law and the prophets."
SallyValentine

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09/22/2022 01:59 PM
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Re: Happy Hobbit Day Everyone!
Prop up your hairy foots, load your pipe with the best old Toby you can find, pour a half pint and enjoy your day!!!!
Here’s a Happy Birthday toast to Bilbo and Frodo and all you that share this day!
And me! ohyeah smile_kiss dasbier
 Quoting: Fossy


thank you , fossy!

today is also my daughter's birthday. she's 12. i remember hoping she would come out on the 22nd, and she did!





GLP