Christians ... let's talk.

"Well, the bible predicted people would scoff and not believe his words, so I would say the odds are pretty big that christainty survived."

This is a horrible unlogical conclusion to come to based on the evidence "it predicted people would scoff". What religion or theory on God has not had this happen. Happened to me on this thread. So does that make me credible. I knew full well it would happen. ???

"And the whole churches are buildings isn't true either. The church is within YOU."

Nope, wrong again. The church is a building. I beleive you are refering to this "soul" we all have, which to this point is impossible for any of us to even really comprehend.

"Of course religion is distorted and used for purposes not taught by the Lord. It has to happen that way for prophecy to be fufilled and if you look around, things are getting worse and worse as the days progress."

BINGO! See you get it, just look at it another way. Here is how prophecy is fulfilled. The rulers of the world create them long before they can happen, then make them happen at an appropriate time to keep people spiritually bound. They are all in contact whic higer beings I beleive to be evil. This is why it looks like the book of Revelations now ... LOL it is ... but it's a dog and pony show to keep you from getting in the way of their agenda. They knew this would come a long, long time ago.


"Prayer isn't supposed to be rhythmic either. It is taught that way by man to make it easier."

Who told you this, could they be lieng, could they have been lied to. I strongly feel it is ritualistic in groups and frankly creeps me out. I think it helps summon thing you wouldn't want aroung. Just my oppinion there ...

"One is supposed to talk to god as you would your best friend or parents, siblings ect. HE WANTS A PERSONAL RELATIONONSHIP WITH YOU. How can one have a relationship with a person that says the same things over and over again. Or only comes to you when they need or want something? YOU CAN'T."

I fully agree. I beleive however it is more the angels we are in contact with through telepathy .... this is what is happening when you "pray" and feel you can have "God" talk back to you. Telepathic communication with aliens. Pretty obvious really.


"As far as belief is concerned you believe it is comprised of some lies, so one could make the same assumption that through yout own research and opinions you came to the conclusion of questioning his word is the only true way to think and attain logic from in your words "the great deception". Your crediability based on logic and overall opinion could be seen in the same way to a christian as the lack of crediablity in the bible is to you."

Of course that's how Christians see it. They are told God gave them free will, but NEVER encouraged to use it to find truth. Interesting??

"I respect where you are coming from though I don't agree with you. But at least you are willing to talk about it in a respectful manner."

Of course! I respect you doing the same. Let's face it, none of us are ever going to nail this down perfectly anytime soon. I am genuinley just sad for those who have had their souls chained up by liars and thievs. We are in a massive time of change. I have children and beleive their world can change much for the better if people are willing really think about their spirituality. I really think it's a hint and a half that you do not need a book, nor a man, nor a group to get from you to God.

Independant spirituality is so important. Your Christian beleifs stop you from being able to even try this ... correct?

I strongly disagree that the times of WW2 when we dropped atomic bombs on a nation, or the days of the cold war were good times in America. STRONGLY disagree with you there.

Due to a natural event, essentially a massive gravitational pull along with multiple other sources we don't comprehend, people began to awaken.

In the days you refer to, the brainwashing worked much better.

OP, what is your definition of religion?..and also, what is the Bible's definiton of religion?...do you know?

The fact is that you don't have a clue about what Christianity truly stands for.

Jesus came, he said, "to set the captives free" and to "proclaim the year of the the Lord's favor".

It is exactly how many fear, it is a "get out of jail free card".

You are free to live your life EXACTLY how you think God wants you to without fear of retribution.

Now, we do have civil authorities that force us to behave within the bounds of a civilization. (Based upon the "traditions of men") But that fact has nothing to do with the Christian religion.

Christians believe that because of Jesus Christ, we can reckon all of our wrongdoing (pointed out to us by our own conscience, no one else's) every single disappointment we have about ourselves is completely tossed out.

How far? Well, as far as east is from west.

And, there are no rules in Christianity either. You might think "Oh, what about the Ten Commandments??" Ummm, sorry, the Bible calls rules "obsolete".

How can anyone use Christianity to control anyone when the Bible says over and over that there are no rules to follow? Your behavior is completely between you and God and no one else can judge you.


You are also incorrect when you say "the guys who wrote the book in the first place are currently making the Book of Revelations happen".

1) There is no "Book of Revelations" it is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ". It is called "Revelation" for short.

There is nothing in Revelation that isn't already in another apocalyptic book of the Old Testament. So, it isn't "the same people" in fact, Jews and Christians were at odds for thousands of years and were chiefly responsible for crucifying our Lord.

YOu know, you have a very strong opinion for someone who doesn't have much straight.

The truth really is that throughout history, governments have abused Christianity and tried to twist it to turn it into something that they can use to gain power. It has always slipped through their fingers because once people really pick up a Bible, once they really understand the message, it is the most radical, individualistic, rebellious, anti-rule, anti-authority book on the face of the earth.

There are Martin Luthers and John Wesleys and abolitionists, and anti-abortionists, and pilgrims and missionaries and every kind of revolutionary - like our founding fathers in the U.S. - who will revolt when they find out what enormous freedom the Lord wants His people to have.

I agree. No way to prove it. I can see this happening.

No need to ask for devine intervention when you can just slam on the brakes ...

I spent a significant portion of my life doing what was right in my own eyes -- trying to develop a personal philosophy I could live with, and was workable.

I accomplished neither.

finally two years ago a culmination of personal crises caused me to cry out to the God of my youth -- and He revealed Himself in a big way!

God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. He heard my prayers and saw my tears -- and brought me full measure of His comfort and joy

today I am fully convinced He exists, His Name is Jesus, He shed His Blood on the cross for my sins, He rose from the dead and is alive today -- and I have eternal life with and in Him. His kindness has led me to repentance

what I try and do now is take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. I am in the world yet not of the world. I am an alien and sojourner here -- an ambassador for Christ. I see clearly my philosophies were in vain, as was my reliance on science so-called.

when I follow the precepts laid out in the Bible, many if not most of which are counterintuitive, I find they work. He keeps me in perfect peace as my mind is stayed on Him -- peace thst surpasses understanding.

and I know my God is all about love, and grace, and mercy, and forgiveness. that's who He is -- even as I was faithless He remained faithful -- He cannot contradict Himself.

with the Bible I can cast down imaginations and everything that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. our wisdom is folly to Him. without faith it is impossible to please God -- faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

the enemy comes to kill steal and destroy -- he is the accuser the deceiver and the father of lies. I no longer dialogue with him. if I do he will try and discourage me, or puff me up in vainglory. by the grace of God I am what I am. and I am only righteous in Christ

His death on the cross made it possible for me, and all of us who believe on Him, to exchange our sins for His righteousness. this is the gospel message -- and I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ -- it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe. He does not want any of us to perish, but for all of us to come to repentance and eternal life.

I repent by keeping my eyes fixed on Jesus -- the author and finisher of my faith. daily I am washed in the Word -- with all prayer and supplication humbling myself before Him -- and He lifts me up. I diligently search scripture to see what's so, and have access to the full counsel of God.

when I received the free gift of eternal life by His grace through faith, I received the Holy Spirit as a guarantee. and He leads us to all truth. today I know Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life. He is the good shepherd, I am one of His sheep. I hear His voice, and will not follow another.

day by day, glory to glory, I am being transformed by the renewing of my mind. in this world I still have tribulation, but I can rejoice through trials. many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers us out of them all.

the joy of the Lord is my strength. I rejoice in Him. the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. I choose rather to be a fool for Christ. God is with me, who can be against me? to live is Christ and to die is gain.

Jesus has overcome the world. I overcome with Him -- by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of my testimony. it is no longer I that live but Jesus that lives in me!

love peace and joy in the Lord...

rb

What if all humans could only see in black and white? Color would be beyond human comprehension, but it would still exist. It is likely that there are many realities that are beyond human comprehension. A mind does not determine all reality. Besides, different minds have different realities.
.

All I can say is keep searching. Ask God to show himself to you.
As for me, I continually search but I use the light of the Holy Spirit to illuminate the path. This path I will willingly walk till I die. I'm not chained by my beliefs but on the contrary, Jesus has released my bonds.

As for prophecy being created by those in power to do their own will, I would like you to read Psalms 22 and the billion to one odds of pagan soldiers and circumstances colluding to fufill prophecy devoid of outside influence.

pictures of Jesus is idolatry

OK.
If in your mind you can fly off a bluff, but in my mind I know you gonna splat, which mind is interpereting reality?
There is truth, and there is dillusion. There is one reality but a multitude of minds to interperete it right or wrong.

This is interesting to me and I find it interesting.

I did not in any try to demean people for beleiving in God.

I'm a full beleiver in all sorts of spiritual things ...

Just not lies spoonfed to me by people want to control my life, body, mind and soul.

No way.

Of course it's real though. Aethiesm is more illogical than Christianity.

Only if you worship them.

"Jesus claimed to be TRUTH. He also came to heal the sick, both physically and spiritually."

So the story goes yes. I think he was real, special and had strong bloodlines from the Gods.

"There is alot of deceit and lies out there but Jesus has never let me down. It is my hope that you too can find His TRUTH."

To be honest I've had experiences with him too that have been special. The TRUTH is however, Jesus Christ had NOTHING to do with the Christian religion. Nothing at all. It all came after his death. How are we certain he would approve? We can't be. Ever look at it from Jesus' point of view?

"There is one reality."

This is a statement that can't be proven. It just can't.

"We are seperated from God by sin and nothing we can do about it ourselves. God made a door only you can walk thru alone. You must decide on whose truth to believe, the Creators or the creations."

Why do the churches and the govt. work together? Remember how they made us think 9-11 happened. A convincing lie is as good as reality for darn near everyone.

Independant thought raises a lot of questions about the intentions of organized religion.

Bingo. Dead on the money in my view of things.

To think this evil force has not manipulated this large group of people just doesn't fly.

Gotcha . . .

I marvel at all the people who follow after prosperity preachers, but that is their reality.
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Good question. I should have cleared this up in the beginning.

It's all hard to define really ... isn't it?

Generally speaking, I see organized religion as the method being used to bring people further from the truth.

I do beleive most everyone involved in it, other than the higher ups do not realize this though.

I think our species needs to use our brains, which are rapidly evolving as we speak in mass ... to start questioning very seriously what we have been told to beleive.

Does it make sence?

Didn't answer your question ... sorry. No I can not define religon LOL. Sorry

I have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus will return in this generation. No amount of antichrist blather can sway my belief in Christ. I do believe the religions of this world are ALL antichrist. Most $$$$ hungry christ organizations are also part of the antichrist order.

However, Christ did live and then die on the cross for the sins of humankind. Why??? not sure. Humans for the most part suck. But, this is what makes God superior and He has a plan. Jesus Christ is going to return to this earth at the moment in time the stupid human rulers/plotter/planners have decided to finally detroy the earth. God will not allow the descruction of His earth.

And, as much as the illuminati believes they are in control. Well, God is really always in control, even in the end.

For me, religion is a man-made God. Then, people follow whichever version is most pleasing to them.
.

Here, I'll give you an example, something to think about.

Once, a long time ago, the Christian God DID write a book of rules for a country to follow. A very extensive set of rules.

At that time, sometime around 3,000 BC, this set of rules was announced - and it was so radical for that culture, that greedy people refused to follow those rules. Many of those principles we still have today in common law, like Justinian common law, evolving into British Magna Carta, and so on until today.

Bankrupty has it's origin in the Old Testament Israelite law. Every seven years, slaves were set free. Every 50 years, land that belonged to a family, no matter whether or not there was a mortgage on that property, returned to the original owner, with no debt against it. It was called the Jubilee. So, if your father was a fool and used his home for an ATM machine, you wouldn't pay the price. How is that for progressive, even today?

Christianity as we know it was created (Christians would say by God) because man was too greedy and couldn't follow these laws without corrupting justice, ripping off the poor, using "weighted scales". According to the books of Kings, Chronicles, Jeremiah, Lamentations, etc, God spent most of his time very angry at their cruelty to one another. He couldn't enjoy having a relationship with them.

So, he threw the rules out... or rather threw out the penalty for those rules. And once there is no penalty - once that penalty has been paid, rather, there is no fear of breaking any rules. No control.

There is absolutely no controlling such people who believe such a gift is theirs. Who believe they have a 'get out of jail free card'.

So, all the rules were thrown out. And God says... if you truly appreciate what I have done for you by doing this, then, he asks you the same question He asked Peter, "Peter, do you love me?" and Peter said, "Of course I do!" and Jesus asked him the same question three times until Peter finally said, "Lord, you know I love you!" and Jesus, the Good Shepherd said, "then feed my sheep". Then Jesus warned Peter of the suffering he would bear for being His disciple, and then said, "Follow me".

And that is basically all we are told about it. No rules except to care for one another and to follow Jesus. There is nothing else.

Asking a religous person to "think with logic" is like asking a pig to fly, yup.

The Bible only has one definition of "religion":

James 1:

27Pure religion, undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

"The fact is that you don't have a clue about what Christianity truly stands for."

As a child I saw a man telling a large group of people specifically what God is. I wondered ... well how can he know for sure. He can not. He is taking someones word for it, or a book for it. I find it highly likely these have been manipulated or were created initially to serve the interest of those humans who feel it nessicary to enslave us. Our "leaders".


"You are free to live your life EXACTLY how you think God wants you to without fear of retribution."

Now, this is not the general consensus among the Christian population. They are all under the impression anything other than Jesus Christ is Satan. Hmmm sounds like something a sneaky being mught scare people with ... God must want us to be curious.

"Now, we do have civil authorities that force us to behave within the bounds of a civilization. (Based upon the "traditions of men") But that fact has nothing to do with the Christian religion."

Look close, you took the bait. Why are we not free to do as we wish? We are supposed to have free will right?



"Christians believe that because of Jesus Christ, we can reckon all of our wrongdoing (pointed out to us by our own conscience, no one else's) every single disappointment we have about ourselves is completely tossed out.

How far? Well, as far as east is from west.

And, there are no rules in Christianity either. You might think "Oh, what about the Ten Commandments??" Ummm, sorry, the Bible calls rules "obsolete".

How can anyone use Christianity to control anyone when the Bible says over and over that there are no rules to follow? Your behavior is completely between you and God and no one else can judge you. "

See this happens a lot. People say these things but never look to see if the church, in actuality behaves that way. I agree with what you say. I strongly disagree that the church encourages this culture among it's followers. (I'm painting with a broad brush, so of course there are exceptions, but not many)


"You are also incorrect when you say "the guys who wrote the book in the first place are currently making the Book of Revelations happen".

1) There is no "Book of Revelations" it is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ". It is called "Revelation" for short.

There is nothing in Revelation that isn't already in another apocalyptic book of the Old Testament. So, it isn't "the same people" in fact, Jews and Christians were at odds for thousands of years and were chiefly responsible for crucifying our Lord."

Bold statement at top. You do not see the ammount of manipulation that exists in this world at the "top" level.

"YOu know, you have a very strong opinion for someone who doesn't have much straight."

You offer many statements that I agree with. Problem is, you don't look for actual action on the part of the church. You just say it as if it were true, and it just is not.

I have a lot of things straight. I know full well there are a LOT of red flags in organized religion.

I can't beleive you can not see them. I understand in order to, you would have to change your entire view of the world, which becomes nearly impossible after 30 or so ... too set in stone.


"The truth really is that throughout history, governments have abused Christianity and tried to twist it to turn it into something that they can use to gain power. It has always slipped through their fingers because once people really pick up a Bible, once they really understand the message, it is the most radical, individualistic, rebellious, anti-rule, anti-authority book on the face of the earth."

You're so close .... the Bible was manipulated too!!

"There are Martin Luthers and John Wesleys and abolitionists, and anti-abortionists, and pilgrims and missionaries and every kind of revolutionary - like our founding fathers in the U.S. - who will revolt when they find out what enormous freedom the Lord wants His people to have."

You live in a lie friend. I'm sorry. I did too once!

Founding fathers ...

GEORGE WASHINGTON

or use his first inital, take out the HINGT and flip the W upside down.

G MASON. ???? You know of the masons right? You know about the back of the dollar bill?

You should look into it. It is what helped wake me up as to the level of deceit and lies.

Friend. I read your whole post. This first line is the most telling.

I fully beleive in and have encountered evil forces and it sounds to me like you gave up on being spiritually independant! Which a lot of us do.

You took the easy road, laid out with a manual. You feel good because the evil ones are sneaky as hell and lieng little bastards.

Question what they tell you. Does it line up. They're good liars, but every liar slips up from time to time.

Well put. We do not even have a definition for reality. So determining the levels is incomprehensible to us at this point.

It is difficult yes. They've been taught a lie is certain when it can not be proven and has many obvious flaws.

I do feel lots of people are spreading wings right now though ... so I hope maybe something I say will resonate in someone over time. It's the only way to win our independance back.

Satan, the devil, the deciever, lucifer, the fallen angel. Is just this; a fallen angel.
The fallen angel does a good job at decieving humans into believing Christianity is screwed up and making a mess of christianity in general. the fallen angel invented all of the earths antichrist religions including catholosism. Catholosism is a false system of beliefs that raises up a human (the Pope) into the seat of God. This is blasphemy in God's eyes. the fallen angel does a really good job decieving the masses of people on this earth to turn away from God and HIS son, Jesus Christ. I takes a decernful eye to be able to see the crap that the fallen angel has accomplished over the thousands of years. the fallen angel is very smart, but he is not in control, GOD the father is..and always will be.

Here is the rest of that Colossians passage that is in my avatar:

Really read it slowly and contemplate what it is saying.

He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.



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It says that rules lack any value in making someone a good person, in inhibiting narcisism.

In fact the people described as 'the world' sound alot like what you think Christians are. But it isn't.

Rules are destined to perish with use - they are cultural.

They have an 'appearance of wisdom' but it is a fake.

What is real? "Follow me". Be like Jesus, humble, loving, kind, caring for widows, orphans, and be THANKFUL and JOYFUL for the gift of redemption.

It says that Jesus triumphed over cancelling our list of disappointments, all the times we "missed the target".

He made a public spectacle out of them!

He is THRILLED to give us a "get out of jail free card".

Kay,

3000 BC interesting time ;) Stonehenge.

Yes I beleive angels (aliens) came, dropped off some of their creations, and left them to evolve. Like raising a child, then letting be an adult.

Let me get this straight ... you beleive a being powerful enough to create us and drop us off here would change their own rules as we don't go along with them?

Sounds pretty wishy-washy for a supreme being.

I call BS. I beleive evil forces came and convinced people they were Gods (not hard for them to do) and told them this lie.

Reality is hard to find.

Odds are both minds are wrong is my guess given the extent of lies in our society and world today.