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| 01:47 AM | ||
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ZimmermanTrial - The Verdict - (?) | |
Yoda17460874
 User ID: 17460874  United States07/13/2013 10:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Yoda17460874 that's not true, they can find him Not Guilty of 2nd Degree Murder but still Guilty of Manslaughter. how? Because if they don't believe his Self Defense BS (who could blame them if they don't?), they can still find him Not Guilty of 2nd Degree Murder due to not having the 'Depraved mind' bit: SECOND DEGREE MURDER To prove the crime of Second Degree Murder, the State must prove the following threeelements beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. Trayvon Martin is dead. 2. The death was caused by the criminal act of George Zimmerman. 3. There was an unlawful killing of Trayvon Martin by an act imminently dangerousto another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. Then they will have to review the Manslaughter charge. Already having not believed his BS Self Defense, they would likely find him Guilty as there is no 'Depraved mind' bit: MANSLAUGHTERTo prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elementsbeyond a reasonable doubt: 1. Trayvon Martin is dead. 2. George Zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused thedeath of Trayvon Martin. Yoda, I have nothing against you, but you're REALLY are making yourself look stupid or uninformed. Sorry. how so? That is 100% true look at the charges and requirements to find him guilty. I copy/pasted that straight from the Jury's instructions! Yeah but you left out the self-defense part, how convenient.. But you're just trolling between the lines as usual. Until you get banned from the thread and makes you feel like you won something. WTF are you talking about?!? READ MY POST! Self Defense is mentioned ALL over it and in my example the Jury doesn't buy his BS Self Defense claim. If you don't see that, read it again (And again... and again... until you see the REPEATED mentions of Self Defense) Yoda am I |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31036137 United States07/13/2013 10:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Molon Labe 2013 The logical extension of the "he shouldn't have followed" argument is that there should no neighborhood watch at all, and that people should just cower in their homes... it's neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow and if you want to talk more about following, ZImmerman should've followed neighborhood watch protocol, but he did not. ZImmerman should've followed the 311/911 operator's instruction/suggestion/whatever, but he did not. Yoda, you're fucking stupid! Seriously, I had to say. Really? There is NO law that restricts a person travel on public property with out a Judge ordering one. Did Zimmerman have a court order to stay away from Trayvon? Hell no and never needed one either. I KNOW you know Zimmerman had the right to go anywhere in that area. He had EVERY LEGAL right to walk up to Zimmerman. In fact, he was legally allowed to chase him all the way home and stand outside all day waiting. Dude, it is NOT a crime to follow someone. If you are trying to point towards following like an X does with a restraining order.....THEY HAVE A RESTRAINING ORDER!!!! Other wise, why even have restraining orders at all! did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!? You clearly suggested he was not in the right to follow. I am saying that is BS to the 9nth degree. In FACT, If Zimmerman was aware of a possible crime, does nothing and then someone dies from that crime then Zimmerman can be held responsible for not speaking up. In that case, he did what he should've done. Not following that Thugyon could have been a potential crime on Z's part. So in a way, Zimmerman was obeying the law by following Trayvon! |
| Future Viewer User ID: 804276 United States07/13/2013 10:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I hope he gets acquitted. Watching the twitter feeds...it is amazingly sad as to see the nation we live in...our education and social system at its best. This nation is fubarred! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43300721 Some tweets from twitter search on "Zimmerman riot" with the identity of the tweeters taken out: "Zimmerman get away my potna in jail said they havin a riot" "My sister bringing a knife with her to the theme park cus that Zimmerman riot shit is in Florida. Lmfaooooo" "People gonna start a riot if Zimmerman walk away free!!!" "Early waiting on the verdict!! If George Zimmerman gets off, I'm starting a mf-ing riot!No JK,but I will have to beat the f*** outta someone" "just in case any of you feel the need to loot and riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.. ya boy wear a size 13 shoe..XL Polo..38-40Pants" "If he is not found guilty there will be a riot. No justice.. No peace.." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All SETUP by "TPTB", "Illumanti", "The Hidden Bankers" and some type "Jews".. All out of the CIA/KGB MSM News factory!! With Riots, Looting, etc... (Long Island/NY metro area-> Ground Zero for this!~  |
| Yoda17460874
User ID: 17460874 United States07/13/2013 10:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ugh, Yoda, if the jury believes Z was in the right regarding Self Defense, neither charge can be applied. Quoting: --Voltaic-- I was just putting it into perspective for you. Once the jury determines he is innocent of 2nd degree, there is NO legal provision to charge for manslaughter. ok fine in your example where they believe he acted in Self Defense then yes I agree that there is no way he can be convicted of Manslaughter. HOWEVER, in my example the Jury does NOT believe he acted in Self Defense and then it is very possible and likely that he would be convicted of Manslaughter as they don't have to decide that he had a 'depraved mind/mindset' blah blah blah the 3rd criteria for Murder 2 The depraved mind, ill will, etc......it all gets tossed out because he had the right to self defense. If self defense isn't determined by the jury, it's 2nd degree. Manslaughter is a silly attempt that won't fly. it's only 2nd degree if there was valid no self defense claim AND he acted with a 'depraved mind'. It's quite possible for the Jury to decide there was no valid self defense claim but that he did not have a 'depraved mind', and then it would be Guilty of Manslaughter. This isn't terribly difficult to understand Yoda am I |
| H0NEYBEE
(OP) User ID: 39160120 United States07/13/2013 10:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Molon Labe 2013 The logical extension of the "he shouldn't have followed" argument is that there should no neighborhood watch at all, and that people should just cower in their homes... it's neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow and if you want to talk more about following, ZImmerman should've followed neighborhood watch protocol, but he did not. ZImmerman should've followed the 311/911 operator's instruction/suggestion/whatever, but he did not. Yoda, you're fucking stupid! Seriously, I had to say. Really? There is NO law that restricts a person travel on public property with out a Judge ordering one. Did Zimmerman have a court order to stay away from Trayvon? Hell no and never needed one either. I KNOW you know Zimmerman had the right to go anywhere in that area. He had EVERY LEGAL right to walk up to Zimmerman. In fact, he was legally allowed to chase him all the way home and stand outside all day waiting. Dude, it is NOT a crime to follow someone. If you are trying to point towards following like an X does with a restraining order.....THEY HAVE A RESTRAINING ORDER!!!! Other wise, why even have restraining orders at all! did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!? Yoda, chill out. Use your icon that I gave you a green karma on >>  ;)"I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples." Mother Teresa America-We represent 5% of the world, yet we represent 25% of the incarcerated world. We are no longer the "land of the free" we are now the "largest prison nation in the world." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Martin Luther King,Jr. |
| berniemom2012
Deplorable CatRWall User ID: 6493463 United States07/13/2013 10:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And watching The State's closing arguments made me sick too. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 38107499 Using emotion and conjecture to manipulate those women because there are no facts and no evidence supporting the case to begin with. Which is WHY he wasn't charged immediately. And these are the people who SHOULD be the good guys and not liars, cheaters, and manipulators. The approach may backfire. I am a woman, a mother & have sat on a Grand Jury -- an patronizing or efforts to manipulate would have rally pissed me off. I do not know the women on this jury, but I wanted only facts and a copy of the actual law to make my decision. ... and yes, there were several times I refused to to to indict & blocked the entire Grand Jury because it was obvious someone was being railroaded. I hope some/all of the women on the Zimmerman jury have balls & are willing to dig in regardless of how hard the other jurors try to blast them. ^^^^^ THIS |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 35693444 United States07/13/2013 10:27 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't get why people wanting to convict Zimmerman are so hung up on who started the fight? First of all, are we in elementary school? And secondly, that argument never worked with my parents but it seems to be all that matters to those of a certain political persuasion , I've noticed. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35693444 Anyway, so what if George Zimmerman got out of his truck? So what if he DID follow TM? Following someone is not illegal, it's not even immoral. So how can people get all bent out of shape bc Zimmerman "followed" and yet think it was perfectly reasonable and acceptable that TM punched and tried to beat Zimmerman? There is just no logic to these arguments. The logical extension of the "he shouldn't have followed" argument is that there should no neighborhood watch at all, and that people should just cower in their homes... it's neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow and if you want to talk more about following, ZImmerman should've followed neighborhood watch protocol, but he did not. ZImmerman should've followed the 311/911 operator's instruction/suggestion/whatever, but he did not. Just curious, but how do you know he did not follow the operator's suggestion? He stated that he went back to his truck, therefore following the instructions. What...evidencedo you have that suggests otherwise? Nothing. You have nothing. For whatever reason, you WANT to believe it. Well, since we're just taking speculations and stating them as fact, I'll throw a few out. |
Lady Jane Smith
Forum Administrator User ID: 1332771  Netherlands07/13/2013 10:28 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Manslaughter still means 15 to life sentence. Hope some of the jurors know the extend of the law and the price that comes with such verdict. Not only a mans life ruined, but any new case of self-defense as well. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31381689 I heard somewhere that they are not told what the sentencing guidelines are. Also, that this judge is very heavy on her sentences and she could easily give him 30 years for manslaughter. No matter what they think the sentence will be, they shouldn't give an innocent man any jail time. It's hard for me to believe that all six of them will see it that way. Yes, that's correct and I believe that this judge in particular would be harsh handing out her sentence. I know it's hard for you to believe that 6 will see it for Manslaughter but keep in mind that these are 6 women. They all want to get along, they want to be friends, they like to cooperate. They see all the protesters outside, they all probably were at least aware of the racial overtones of this case before they were called to be jurors. They are mostly white women...some, no doubt, harboring a great sense of "white guilt" but also, not wanting anyone to track THEM down and accuse THEM of being racist. Now , if I was on the jury, I wouldn't give a damn. We could sit there for days, weeks, whatever before I would convict. But that's just me. I'm with you on that. I would NEVER convict an innocent person just to get along with a bimbo brigade. Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" the warrior whispers back "I am the storm" INTJ-A  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31036137 United States07/13/2013 10:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ugh, Yoda, if the jury believes Z was in the right regarding Self Defense, neither charge can be applied. Quoting: --Voltaic-- I was just putting it into perspective for you. Once the jury determines he is innocent of 2nd degree, there is NO legal provision to charge for manslaughter. ok fine in your example where they believe he acted in Self Defense then yes I agree that there is no way he can be convicted of Manslaughter. HOWEVER, in my example the Jury does NOT believe he acted in Self Defense and then it is very possible and likely that he would be convicted of Manslaughter as they don't have to decide that he had a 'depraved mind/mindset' blah blah blah the 3rd criteria for Murder 2 The depraved mind, ill will, etc......it all gets tossed out because he had the right to self defense. If self defense isn't determined by the jury, it's 2nd degree. Manslaughter is a silly attempt that won't fly. it's only 2nd degree if there was valid no self defense claim AND he acted with a 'depraved mind'. It's quite possible for the Jury to decide there was no valid self defense claim but that he did not have a 'depraved mind', and then it would be Guilty of Manslaughter. This isn't terribly difficult to understand Shooting someone outside of self defense IS ill will and hatred. Again, not making manslaughter a possibility. |
| geminilion
User ID: 12895036 United States07/13/2013 10:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ugh, Yoda, if the jury believes Z was in the right regarding Self Defense, neither charge can be applied. Quoting: --Voltaic-- I was just putting it into perspective for you. Once the jury determines he is innocent of 2nd degree, there is NO legal provision to charge for manslaughter. ok fine in your example where they believe he acted in Self Defense then yes I agree that there is no way he can be convicted of Manslaughter. HOWEVER, in my example the Jury does NOT believe he acted in Self Defense and then it is very possible and likely that he would be convicted of Manslaughter as they don't have to decide that he had a 'depraved mind/mindset' blah blah blah the 3rd criteria for Murder 2 The depraved mind, ill will, etc......it all gets tossed out because he had the right to self defense. If self defense isn't determined by the jury, it's 2nd degree. Manslaughter is a silly attempt that won't fly. it's only 2nd degree if there was valid no self defense claim AND he acted with a 'depraved mind'. It's quite possible for the Jury to decide there was no valid self defense claim but that he did not have a 'depraved mind', and then it would be Guilty of Manslaughter. This isn't terribly difficult to understand Maybe you didn't see it Yoda, I asked you what did the state prove for any type of conviction? ..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way." Heraclitus |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40019689 United States07/13/2013 10:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Yoda17460874
User ID: 17460874 United States07/13/2013 10:29 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Yoda17460874 it's neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow and if you want to talk more about following, ZImmerman should've followed neighborhood watch protocol, but he did not. ZImmerman should've followed the 311/911 operator's instruction/suggestion/whatever, but he did not. Yoda, you're fucking stupid! Seriously, I had to say. Really? There is NO law that restricts a person travel on public property with out a Judge ordering one. Did Zimmerman have a court order to stay away from Trayvon? Hell no and never needed one either. I KNOW you know Zimmerman had the right to go anywhere in that area. He had EVERY LEGAL right to walk up to Zimmerman. In fact, he was legally allowed to chase him all the way home and stand outside all day waiting. Dude, it is NOT a crime to follow someone. If you are trying to point towards following like an X does with a restraining order.....THEY HAVE A RESTRAINING ORDER!!!! Other wise, why even have restraining orders at all! did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!? Yoda, chill out. Use your icon that I gave you a green karma on >> ;)chill out? from saying 'did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!?'? and sorry, I'm on Lean withdrawal and since you have to sip it it takes me a while each day to build up my intoxication   Yoda am I |
| truthwillsetyoufreeagain
User ID: 23952927 United States07/13/2013 10:29 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the Jury taking 3 hrs 33 minutes yesterday, and repeatedly shown on CNN tripped me out... Quoting: IamSawyer I can't really recall but, are all media outlets notified 1 hour in advance before the verdict is read? I clearly heard CNN say yesterday that the court would notify the media 1 hour prior to having the verdict read so that they could "get ready"... Is this normal? That's pretty normal. Especially since no one knows when the verdict will be ready. This gives time for everyone to get there. Correct. And that delay is not "for the media", it is for the defendant(s), counsel, and "all other interested parties" to return to the court room. With small variations, the process goes like this: The jury foreman notifies the bailiff that they have a verdict... bailiff notifies the judge, who in turn calls everyone into the court room, before bringing the jury in for the reading of the verdict by the jury foreman. The delay can be 5 minutes, or it could be the next morning... the delay given to "summon the interested parties to return" is at the discretion of the judge. If she's at the feeding trough we'll have to wait a while. That visual made me  Last Edited by truthwillsetyoufreeagain on 07/13/2013 10:30 AM  ______________ As long as I am an American citizen and American blood runs in these veins I shall hold myself at liberty to speak, to write, and to publish whatever I please on any subject.” - Elijah Parish Lovejoy(1802-1837) All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent...Thomas Jefferson The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government...Thomas Jefferson When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty...Thomas Jefferson Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light...George Washington |
| H0NEYBEE
(OP) User ID: 39160120 United States07/13/2013 10:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Ugh "I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples." Mother Teresa America-We represent 5% of the world, yet we represent 25% of the incarcerated world. We are no longer the "land of the free" we are now the "largest prison nation in the world." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Martin Luther King,Jr. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 24378106 United States07/13/2013 10:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I hope he gets acquitted. Watching the twitter feeds...it is amazingly sad as to see the nation we live in...our education and social system at its best. This nation is fubarred! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43300721 Some tweets from twitter search on "Zimmerman riot" with the identity of the tweeters taken out: "Zimmerman get away my potna in jail said they havin a riot" "My sister bringing a knife with her to the theme park cus that Zimmerman riot shit is in Florida. Lmfaooooo" "People gonna start a riot if Zimmerman walk away free!!!" "Early waiting on the verdict!! If George Zimmerman gets off, I'm starting a mf-ing riot!No JK,but I will have to beat the f*** outta someone" "just in case any of you feel the need to loot and riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.. ya boy wear a size 13 shoe..XL Polo..38-40Pants" "If he is not found guilty there will be a riot. No justice.. No peace.." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ All SETUP by "TPTB", "Illumanti", "The Hidden Bankers" and some type "Jews".. All out of the CIA/KGB MSM News factory!! With Riots, Looting, etc... (Long Island/NY metro area-> Ground Zero for this!~ Unfortunatly I think you are right !! |
| KimmieAnnaJones
User ID: 35744535 United States07/13/2013 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The whistleblower says he alerted the defense that prosecutors withheld Martin's phone records about fights, guns and drugs. #Zimmermanon9 Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The judge did not allow the evidence in. It's unclear how that will affect the defense motion for sanctions against state. #Zimmermanon9 Last Edited by KimmieAnnaJones on 07/13/2013 10:31 AM "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." - I AM Vote for people that have a track record for loving your Constitution or lose your country forever!!! Put down the damn touchy feely koolaid and WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!! :militia: |
| PhantomLordNYC
User ID: 10035357 United States07/13/2013 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Yoda17460874
User ID: 17460874 United States07/13/2013 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I don't get why people wanting to convict Zimmerman are so hung up on who started the fight? First of all, are we in elementary school? And secondly, that argument never worked with my parents but it seems to be all that matters to those of a certain political persuasion , I've noticed. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35693444 Anyway, so what if George Zimmerman got out of his truck? So what if he DID follow TM? Following someone is not illegal, it's not even immoral. So how can people get all bent out of shape bc Zimmerman "followed" and yet think it was perfectly reasonable and acceptable that TM punched and tried to beat Zimmerman? There is just no logic to these arguments. The logical extension of the "he shouldn't have followed" argument is that there should no neighborhood watch at all, and that people should just cower in their homes... it's neighborhood watch not neighborhood follow and if you want to talk more about following, ZImmerman should've followed neighborhood watch protocol, but he did not. ZImmerman should've followed the 311/911 operator's instruction/suggestion/whatever, but he did not. Just curious, but how do you know he did not follow the operator's suggestion? He stated that he went back to his truck, therefore following the instructions. What...evidencedo you have that suggests otherwise? Nothing. You have nothing. For whatever reason, you WANT to believe it. Well, since we're just taking speculations and stating them as fact, I'll throw a few out. according to his own account he walked on the top of the T to the Circle Road and back now I admit he's not credible and his story is not very believable but he was in the back of the houses, not by his truck so you do the math... 2 + 2 = ??? Yoda am I |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 31381689 Netherlands07/13/2013 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| geminilion
User ID: 12895036 United States07/13/2013 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maybe black leaders can start in the black communities where black on black violence is through the roof! What about that!!! ..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way." Heraclitus |
| John Kimble
User ID: 1516308 Netherlands07/13/2013 10:32 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Please, give us your reason why you are absolutely 100% sure that everything Zimmerman said was bogus. If you aren't as sure about that as about the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow you have a reasonable doubt. I'm da party poopa |
| geminilion
User ID: 12895036 United States07/13/2013 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | An interesting tweet... Quoting: KimmieAnnaJones Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The whistleblower says he alerted the defense that prosecutors withheld Martin's phone records about fights, guns and drugs. #Zimmermanon9 Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The judge did not allow the evidence in. It's unclear how that will affect the defense motion for sanctions against state. #Zimmermanon9 If there's any kind of conviction the shit will hit the fan. ..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way." Heraclitus |
| GoldenYears
User ID: 14091728 United States07/13/2013 10:33 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Maybe black leaders can start in the black communities where black on black violence is through the roof! What about that!!! Some are looking for ANY excuse to riot. If the Zimmerman trial doesn't pan out, it will be something else down the road. "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" Socrates |
| geminilion
User ID: 12895036 United States07/13/2013 10:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yoda have you still not realised that if they want to hit him with manslaughter the state has to convince the jury BEYOND a reasonable doubt that his self defense claim is bogus. They have to be absolutely 100% certain that he was lying. There can be no doubt. they can't say well I believe Zimmermans story somewhat but he could have been lying, that is a reasonable doubt. Quoting: John Kimble Please, give us your reason why you are absolutely 100% sure that everything Zimmerman said was bogus. If you aren't as sure about that as about the fact that the sun will come up tomorrow you have a reasonable doubt. I keep asking him how the state proved it's case but so far no answer. ..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way." Heraclitus |
| Yoda17460874
User ID: 17460874 United States07/13/2013 10:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Yoda17460874 ok fine in your example where they believe he acted in Self Defense then yes I agree that there is no way he can be convicted of Manslaughter. HOWEVER, in my example the Jury does NOT believe he acted in Self Defense and then it is very possible and likely that he would be convicted of Manslaughter as they don't have to decide that he had a 'depraved mind/mindset' blah blah blah the 3rd criteria for Murder 2 The depraved mind, ill will, etc......it all gets tossed out because he had the right to self defense. If self defense isn't determined by the jury, it's 2nd degree. Manslaughter is a silly attempt that won't fly. it's only 2nd degree if there was valid no self defense claim AND he acted with a 'depraved mind'. It's quite possible for the Jury to decide there was no valid self defense claim but that he did not have a 'depraved mind', and then it would be Guilty of Manslaughter. This isn't terribly difficult to understand Shooting someone outside of self defense IS ill will and hatred. Again, not making manslaughter a possibility. oh really? so say X is taking a nap in the woods and I don't see them, I shoot at some trees for target practice but I kill X accidentally. That's 2nd degree murder? I wasn't invoking self defense and yet I still shot and killed them without depraved mind and without ill will nor hatred Yoda am I |
| truthwillsetyoufreeagain
User ID: 23952927 United States07/13/2013 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Manslaughter still means 15 to life sentence. Hope some of the jurors know the extend of the law and the price that comes with such verdict. Not only a mans life ruined, but any new case of self-defense as well. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31381689 I heard somewhere that they are not told what the sentencing guidelines are. Also, that this judge is very heavy on her sentences and she could easily give him 30 years for manslaughter. No matter what they think the sentence will be, they shouldn't give an innocent man any jail time. It's hard for me to believe that all six of them will see it that way. Yes, that's correct and I believe that this judge in particular would be harsh handing out her sentence. I know it's hard for you to believe that 6 will see it for Manslaughter but keep in mind that these are 6 women. They all want to get along, they want to be friends, they like to cooperate. They see all the protesters outside, they all probably were at least aware of the racial overtones of this case before they were called to be jurors. They are mostly white women...some, no doubt, harboring a great sense of "white guilt" but also, not wanting anyone to track THEM down and accuse THEM of being racist. Now , if I was on the jury, I wouldn't give a damn. We could sit there for days, weeks, whatever before I would convict. But that's just me. No, I meant I find it hard to believe that all six will be stand-up individuals and vote for an acquittal. ______________ As long as I am an American citizen and American blood runs in these veins I shall hold myself at liberty to speak, to write, and to publish whatever I please on any subject.” - Elijah Parish Lovejoy(1802-1837) All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent...Thomas Jefferson The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government...Thomas Jefferson When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty...Thomas Jefferson Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light...George Washington |
| geminilion
User ID: 12895036 United States07/13/2013 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: --Voltaic-- The depraved mind, ill will, etc......it all gets tossed out because he had the right to self defense. If self defense isn't determined by the jury, it's 2nd degree. Manslaughter is a silly attempt that won't fly. it's only 2nd degree if there was valid no self defense claim AND he acted with a 'depraved mind'. It's quite possible for the Jury to decide there was no valid self defense claim but that he did not have a 'depraved mind', and then it would be Guilty of Manslaughter. This isn't terribly difficult to understand Shooting someone outside of self defense IS ill will and hatred. Again, not making manslaughter a possibility. oh really? so say X is taking a nap in the woods and I don't see them, I shoot at some trees for target practice but I kill X accidentally. That's 2nd degree murder? I wasn't invoking self defense and yet I still shot and killed them without depraved mind and without ill will nor hatred  ..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way." Heraclitus |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 40019689 United States07/13/2013 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | While I think he should be found not guilty, I have a feeling the jury will disreguard the law and convict on Manslaughter. Quoting: PhantomLordNYC They asked for a list of evidence..... I'm thinking they will come back either hung jury or not guilty. The news commentators said a couple of jurors looked emotional yesterday when Guy was speaking. I know there must be at least several will follow the law and not their heart and stand their ground on what they think happened. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 38052225 United States07/13/2013 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | An interesting tweet... Quoting: KimmieAnnaJones Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The whistleblower says he alerted the defense that prosecutors withheld Martin's phone records about fights, guns and drugs. #Zimmermanon9 Kathi Belich, WFTV @KBelichWFTV The judge did not allow the evidence in. It's unclear how that will affect the defense motion for sanctions against state. #Zimmermanon9 Can a retrial use this as new evidence? |
| H0NEYBEE
(OP) User ID: 39160120 United States07/13/2013 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: --Voltaic-- Yoda, you're fucking stupid! Seriously, I had to say. Really? There is NO law that restricts a person travel on public property with out a Judge ordering one. Did Zimmerman have a court order to stay away from Trayvon? Hell no and never needed one either. I KNOW you know Zimmerman had the right to go anywhere in that area. He had EVERY LEGAL right to walk up to Zimmerman. In fact, he was legally allowed to chase him all the way home and stand outside all day waiting. Dude, it is NOT a crime to follow someone. If you are trying to point towards following like an X does with a restraining order.....THEY HAVE A RESTRAINING ORDER!!!! Other wise, why even have restraining orders at all! did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!? Yoda, chill out. Use your icon that I gave you a green karma on >> ;)chill out? from saying 'did I say anywhere it was a crime to follow?!?'? and sorry, I'm on Lean withdrawal and since you have to sip it it takes me a while each day to build up my intoxication No, it was not based on just that one comment.  "I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many ripples." Mother Teresa America-We represent 5% of the world, yet we represent 25% of the incarcerated world. We are no longer the "land of the free" we are now the "largest prison nation in the world." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” Martin Luther King,Jr. |
