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Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.

 
dschis1000

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06/24/2020 12:59 AM
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John 1-1
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.
John 1-2
This was in the beginning with Aloha.
John 1-3
Every thing by his hand was made; and without him also was not one thing made that was made.
John 1-4
In him was life, and the life is the light of the sons of man;
John 1-5
and the Light himself in the darkness shineth, and the darkness perceived him not.
John 1-6
There was a man who was sent from Aloha, his name (was) Juchanon.
John 1-7
He came for the testimony, to testify concerning the Light, that all men might believe through his ministry.
John 1-8
He was not the Light himself, but came to testify concerning the Light.
John 1-9
For that was the true Light that enlighteneth every man who cometh into the world.
John 1-10
In the world was he, and the world by his hand had been made, and the world knew him not.
John 1-11
He came to his own, and his own received him not.
John 1-12
But they who received him, he gave to them power, that the sons of Aloha they should become, to those who believe in his name.
John 1-13
These, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from Aloha, are born.
John 1-14
And the Word flesh was made, and tabernacled with us; and we saw his glory, the glory as of the one-begotten who (was) from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1-15
Juchanon testified concerning him, and cried, and said, This is he of whom I said, that he cometh after me, and was before me, because he is anterior to me.
John 1-16
And from his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace.
John 1-17
For the law by the hand of Musha was given; but the truth and the grace were by Jeshu Meshicha.
John 1-18
ALOHA no man hath ever seen: the one-begotten God, he who is in the bosom of his Father, he hath declared him.
John 1-19
And this was the testimony of Juchanon, when the Jihudoyee sent to him from Urishlem priests and Levoyee to demand of him, Who art thou?
John 1-20
And he confessed, and denied not, but confessed, I am not the Meshicha.
John 1-21
And they asked him again, What then? art thou Elia? And he said, I am not. Art thou the Prophet? And he said, No.
John 1-22
And they said to him, And who art thou? that we may give an answer to those who sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
John 1-23
He saith, I am the voice which crieth in the wilderness, Make plain the way of the Lord, as said Eshaia the prophet.
John 1-24
But they who were sent were from the Pharishee.
John 1-25
And they demanded and said to him, Why then baptizest thou, if thou art not the Meshicha, nor Elia, nor the Prophet?
John 1-26
Juchanon answered and said to them, I baptize you with waters; but he standeth among you whom you know not:
John 1-27
he it is who cometh after me, and he was before me; he, the latchets of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose.
John 1-28
These things were done in Bethania, at the passage of the Jurdan, where Juchanon was baptizing.
John 1-29
AND the day after, Juchanon seeth Jeshu, who was coming to him; and he said, Behold the Lamb of Aloha, who beareth the sin of the world!
John 1-30
This is he concerning whom I said, After me cometh a man, and he was before me, because he is anterior to me.
John 1-31
And I knew him not, but that he should be made known unto Isroel, therefore have I come with waters to baptize.
John 1-32
And Juchanon testified and said, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven as a dove, and it remained upon him.
John 1-33
And I knew him not: but he who sent me to baptize with water, he said to me, He upon whom thou seest the Spirit descend and remain, this baptizeth with the Spirit of Holiness:
John 1-34
and I saw, and bare witness that this is the Son of Aloha



Yes, He is the Son of God, wholly man and wholly God.

Remember that Isaiah prophesied in 7:14 that his name would be Immanuel meaning "God with us".

Saying all of that we will have to ask once in Heaven. He is the Son of God and He and the Father are one.
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2020 02:30 AM
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14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

(Isaiah 7:14)



22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 “The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).

(Matthew 1:22-23)
Anonymous Coward
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06/24/2020 05:55 PM
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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.

John 1-1
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word himself was with Aloha, and Aloha was the Word himself.
John 1-2
This was in the beginning with Aloha.
John 1-3
Every thing by his hand was made; and without him also was not one thing made that was made.

................................

Yes, He is the Son of God, wholly man and wholly God.

Remember that Isaiah prophesied in 7:14 that his name would be Immanuel meaning "God with us".

Saying all of that we will have to ask once in Heaven. He is the Son of God and He and the Father are one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward

"God with us" doesn't make Jesus "God".
It means the Father SENT Him DIRECTLY from Himself.

You ignore ALL the evidence.

Jesus CLEARLY said "the Father is God - MY God" in John 20:17.

Jesus' deity and divinity are as "the SON OF God".

-------------------------------------------

Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD (YHWH) is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

--------------------------------------------

1. Jesus prays to the Father. Does God pray to God?
...Father God doesn't pray to anyone.

2. Jesus gives thanks to the Father.
...The Father doens't give thanks to anyone.

3. Jesus states that He learned from the Father.
...Father God NEVER had to learn.

4. Jesus states that the Father TOLD Him what to say.
...NO ONE tells the Father what to say.

5. Jesus states that the Father is GREATER than He is.
...NO ONE is greater than Father God.

6. Jesus states that "only the Father is good".

7. Jesus states that only the Father knows WHEN Jesus will return.
...The Father's WILL is what is to be done - by HIS time table.

8. Jesus states that He sits at the Father's right hand - "the right hand of power".
...The Father is the source of all power and authority.

9. Jesus states that the Father SENT Him.
...Father God doesn't get "sent" by anyone.

10. Jesus states that He was WITH the Father before the world was created.

11. Jesus states that He was GIVEN power / authority over heaven and earth.
...Was Father God ever "given" power?
Judethz  (OP)

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06/25/2020 07:07 PM
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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.
No Choice Pal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77192571


bridec We all make choices, just make sure that you make the right ones.
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2020 07:25 PM
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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.
Like I have a choice. How cruel. Teasing me with the rapture. Sure it would be nice.

I’m sure glad Jesus wasn’t raptured.

I’m glad he paid my ransom.

Thank you Jesus.
Achduke7

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06/25/2020 07:28 PM

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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.

Achduke
Judethz  (OP)

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06/28/2020 04:45 PM
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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.
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egads!

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05/15/2021 08:11 PM

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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.
Salvation Prayer:





Just read this prayer below with sincerity of heart in order to accept Jesus Christ into your heart and receive his FREE GIFT of Eternal Salvation:




Lord Jesus,


For too long I’ve kept you out of my life. I know that I am a sinner and that I cannot save myself. No longer will I close the door when I hear you knocking. By faith I gratefully receive your gift of salvation. I am ready to trust you as my Lord and Savior. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for coming to earth. I believe you are the Son of God who died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead on the third day. Thank you for bearing my sins and giving me the gift of eternal life. I believe your words are true. Come into my heart, Lord Jesus, and be my Savior. Amen.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33189224


No sinners prayer in the bible. In every instance people were told to repent and believe and get baptized
All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21 Remember it. A simple Save me Lord Jesus makes all the difference when you're facing the wrong side of eternity.

2/8 Fav Song: HIS NAME IS JESUS
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egads!

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05/15/2021 08:22 PM

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Re: Why being a Tribulation Saint is a dangerous second best choice to being Raptured.
Judethz answer me this if you will.

A rapture doesn't make sense, if the result of standing before God is the same for both groups.

Everyone will stand before the Judgment seat, and I mean everyone.

God doesn't show favoritism. Everyone has the same parameters to overcome and in no way will the living proceed the dead.


How do you rationalize a rapture if the dead are raised first?

The rapture that you want to happen, means you would be dead for the final three/half year period of Tribulation.

You would then be resurrected at the last Trump along with everyone else who died.

How else would the living follow after?

If the dead precede the living, and that event occurs at the last Trump, then it makes more sense that Gods people will live through the tribulation.

Scripture is clear, God calls the dead to Him FIRST. God is NOT going to rapture, you midway, kill you and make you wait three and a half years, which is what a rapture would require to fit with scripture.

The Return of the Lord
1 Thessalonians 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 Quoting: Osmium76


The rapture can happen, as that is what happened to Enoch, Elijah, Yahshua(Jesus), and those who were resurrected with Him. There have been raptures before, and there will be again. And it will happen because Yahshua said it will. The only question is that of it's timing.

The rapture does make sense as the two judgments are not the same. The 'Judgment Seat of Christ', the Bema, will be a judgment in heaven of the believers who were raptured. It will not be a judgment of sin, but a judgment of one's works after they were redeemed.

2 Cor 5:8-9
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


"We" being believers in Christ. We have to give an account of what we have done for Christ since becoming believers, whether it be good or bad.

The 'Great White Throne of Judgment' on the other hand will be for those who are not redeemed, who have died without the Salvation of Christ. And it WILL be a judgment of sin for those who reject Christ.

Revelation 20: 11-15 The Final Judgment

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


At this time, believers are not dead but are already living in their immortal bodies, and have been so for 1000 yrs already. So they cannot be part of the dead that are judged. And they have already been judged by Christ at the Bema seat. They cannot be judged a 2nd time, as that would be double-jeopardy. Also our fate as believers is not determined by our works, as we have been redeemed by Christ. It was the work of His blood on the cross that redeemed us. Our original works are dead, forgiven, and forgotten. We believers will not be judged by them, lest Christ's sacrifice for us would be in vain and a waste of His Holy life. Everyone at that trial will be unbelievers who didn't have the salvation of Christ, who had died in their sins. Their names will not be in the Lamb's Book of Life, and they will be found guilty and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

You see those are two separate events with two separate groups of people. The first group are the believers, the second are the unbelievers, and the two groups do not share the same fate. EVERYONE will stand before God, yes. Some will stand at the Bema Seat as believers who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. And others will stand at the Great White Throne of Judgment later in shame as unbelievers who died in their sins.

When the rapture happens, Yahshua will bring the spirits of the dead in Christ back with Him from heaven to earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


He will be in the clouds, and the recently returned spirits of the dead will be translated into their resurrected bodies.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


This is the resurrection of the dead moment. And then the resurrected dead (returned spirits united with new resurrected bodies) go up into the air to meet Yahshua in the air. And THEN those believers who remain will be translated into their resurrection bodies, and go up in the air after the resurrected dead, to meet them and our Lord in the air. This all happens at the same event, and in the "twinkling of an eye".

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


1 Corinthians 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


Who is "we" here? Both dead and alive believers.

And then ALL believers will return with Yahshua to heaven as He said we would.

John 14: 1-3
1. Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


Where did Yahshua go to prepare a place for His bride, His believers? - to His Father's House in heaven.
What will He do after that? - He will come back for us. That is the rapture.
After He comes back for us, what will He do? - He will TAKE us somewhere.
Where will He take us? - to be with Him where He is.
Where is He? - in His Father's House in heaven.
Yahshua told us he is preparing a place for us in heaven. And that He will return to get us and take us back to His Father's House in heaven so that we can be with Him there. This is Yahshua's teaching to us on His rapture of us at a future time.

After this, the events of the Tribulation happen: Yahshua opens the 7 Seals unleashing their judgments, then the 7 trumpet judgments happen, then the 7 bowl judgements happen, etc. All of these things are God's judgments being meted out to an unbelieving world. All of this is the wrath of God, designed to test an unbelieving Israel and punish a hateful world. It's for "those who dwell on the earth", not for believers.

But we believers are not appointed to be here during the time God's wrath.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


And that is our Blessed Hope!

Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Yahshua(Jesus) Christ


Don't get fixated by the 'Last Trump'. Did you know that the 7th trumpet of the 7 trumpet judgements is not the Last trump that will happen?

There will be another at the 2nd Coming of Christ at the Battle of Armageddon. This will be at least 3.5 yrs after the 7th Trumpet judgment of the tribulation.
Then there's the trumpet blowing that will happen every year after that, of the 1000yr Millennial Reign of Christ at the annual Feast of Atonement holidays.
There will be many more trumpets after the "7th Trumpet Judgement", so it's best not to get stuck on that point.
Historically, the "Last Trump" is also the last trumpet blow of the series of trumpet blows of the Yom Teruah High holy day. The "Last Trump" of the return of Christ might reference that.
Then there's the "Last Trump" done in ancient Israel to call in everyone for any holy feast day. That is a possibility too.

Ultimately, we know the rapture will happen. We just squabble over the timing of it's occurrence. Whenever we think it will happen, one thing is abundantly clear, we must each be ready for it before it happens. And we need to work to get as many as will listen to also prepare for it. Our hearts need to belong to God, and our lamps need to be trimmed with plenty of oil to keep up our midnight watch until our master returns for us.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76613374


Since the dead proceed the living, and that doesn't occur until Jesus returns, then how can the living proceed the dead?

Follow scripture and you have your answer. I posted it above.

I am NOT hating on this thread, or the OP.

I very much believe that many people believe in a Pre or mid Trib rapture, but 1 Thessalonians 4 is clear that the dead are raised first.

I am attempting to show you through scripture how a Rapture scenario isn't possible, since those who would be raptured are assumed be very much alive.

Those alive in a rapture scenario would precede the dead.

However, the scripture I share, is clear this doesn't happen.
 Quoting: Osmium76




Jesus comes back with 10 thousands of his saints.

Who are these saints?

They are the raptured dead in christ, and the those who are raptured while still alive.

The dead are not in heaven now. And they will be raptured to the Lord, and then the living will be raptured.
All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21 Remember it. A simple Save me Lord Jesus makes all the difference when you're facing the wrong side of eternity.

2/8 Fav Song: HIS NAME IS JESUS
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GLP