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23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico

 
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 11:56 AM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
if you can read maybe you can start by reading a bit of wiki then

Known as "Clovis First", the predominant hypothesis among archaeologists in the latter half of the 20th century had been that the people associated with the Clovis culture were the first inhabitants of the Americas. The primary support for this was that no solid evidence of pre-Clovis human habitation had been found. According to the standard accepted theory, the Clovis people crossed the Beringia land bridge over the Bering Strait from Siberia to Alaska during the period of lowered sea levels during the ice age, then made their way southward through an ice-free corridor east of the Rocky Mountains in present-day Western Canada as the glaciers retreated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80915153


The Solutrean hypothesis has been heavily debunked by modern science!

Archaeologists have taken a hard, long look at this idea and dismissed it on the basis of insufficient evidence. The mismatch between the archaeological record and the Solutrean hypothesis is so extensive that I can’t cover every problem, but here is a sample:

1. There’s a serious time gap between when the Solutreans could have crossed the Atlantic via the ice bridge (~20,000 YBP) and when Clovis tools begin to show up in the archaeological record (~13,000 YBP). This means that they would have made the points in exactly the same way for 7,000 years. Nowhere else in the Americas do we see technologies and cultures existing unchanging for that length of time.

2. There is no evidence of boat use, or tools used for making boats at Solutrean sites. Although the Ice Bridge documentary makes much of an image of a fish and an auk in a French cave, it is a bit of a stretch (to say the least!) to claim that this is sufficient to demonstrate a sophisticated seafaring culture, capable of crossing the Atlantic. The existence of a year-round “ice bridge” across the Atlantic during the Last Glacial Maximum is not supported by paleoclimate data. Instead, sea ice in the Atlantic would most likely have been seasonal, with a connection between North American and Europe only a few months out of the year.

3. The notion of overshot flaking technique as evidence of a link between Clovis and Solutrean has been challenged by many archaeologists, who think it far more plausible that the two cultures arrived at the same technology independently. As Strauss (2000) puts it, “One or two technical attributes are insufficient to establish a cultural link or long-distance interconnection.”

4. Radiocarbon dates of Clovis sites do not show a pattern one would expect if people diffused into North America from the east coast, as postulated by Stanford and Bradley.

Geneticists, too, have tested the Solutrean hypothesis. If it were true, we would expect to see ancestry from non-Siberian descended populations present in the genomes of ancient Native Americans. We don’t. All contemporary and ancient Native Americans, including the only known ancient individual buried in association with Clovis tools, show descent from an ancestral population with Siberian roots. There is a very clear pattern of evolutionary history recorded in ancient genomes from Siberia, Beringia, and North America, and no evidence for trans-Atlantic gene flow.

This is where the Ice Bridge documentary runs into great problems. It ignores all genomic evidence and instead relies upon an old idea that a particular mitochondrial haplogroup (a group of closely related maternal lineages) known as X shows a connection between North America and Europe. In the documentary, pediatrician/popular science writer Stephen Oppenheimer asserts that the presence of haplogroup X in an ancient North American population is a priori evidence for a European connection.

The documentary makes this case persuasively with graphics and maps showing the presence of this haplogroup in both Europe and North America. But look below the surface and the entire argument falls apart. First of all, Standford, Bradley, and Oppenheimer simply assume that Solutreans would have had X because it’s seen in contemporary European populations.

But in fact, the contemporary European gene pool was formed only within the last 8,000 years, and it’s unknown whether earlier peoples would have had haplogroup X in the same frequencies (or at all). No genomes from Solutren peoples have ever been sequenced, and you should always be cautious when a case is made for extending present day patterns of genetic variation into the past without direct confirmation from ancient DNA.

Today, lineages of haplogroup X are found widely dispersed throughout Europe, Asia, North Africa, and North America. We can reconstruct their evolutionary relationships – much like you can reconstruct a family tree – by looking at patterns of shared and derived mutations. Lineages found in the Americas, X2a and X2g, are not descended from the lineages (X2b, X2d, and X2c) found in Europe. Instead, they share a very ancient common ancestor from Eurasia, X2. (Here is a detailed discussion of the evolution of these haplogroups for anyone interested).

X2a is of a comparable age to other indigenous American haplogroups (A,B,C,D), which would not be true if it was derived from a separate migration from Europe. Finally, the oldest lineage of X2a found in the Americas was recovered from the Ancient One (also known as Kennewick Man), an ancient individual dating to ~9,000 years ago and from the West Coast (not the East Coast as would be predicted from the Solutrean hypothesis). His entire genome has been sequenced and shows that he has no ancestry from European sources. There is no conceivable scenario under which Kennewick Man could have inherited just his mitochondrial genome from Solutreans but the rest of his genome from Beringians. Thus, without additional evidence, there is nothing to justify the assumption that X2a must have evolved in Europe.

The Ice Bridge unfortunately relied on cherry-picking of data to support the ideas of Bradley and Stanford, and it’s not up to the standards of The Nature of Things. When I write about this issue, I frequently hear an argument along the lines of “Well, it could have happened, so maybe it did”. But science isn’t built on “could haves” and “maybes”. You must build your models based on evidence you have, not evidence you wish you had, and the Solutrean hypothesis is lacking sufficient evidence to be considered seriously.
 Quoting: Actual Science

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79943948


From more recent tests the DNA of the Siberia is only Alaska Natives not the ones in the mainland America west north, south, and east natives do not have Siberian DNA. Jumping to theories is not good science. They do know there is more than one grouping of DNA, the divide is kind of a split in the country halfway. Western and Eastern have a few that match the other part does not match, the Western one match to the ones going down to South America.

I can always use my theory, the landmasses all over the world were one, Some sank or dropped and were covered with ocean either this or landmasses moved and some displacement happened and the higher part rose up and the others sank, the ocean water flowed over those other civilizations. Must have been after the flood.
 Quoting: hankie


They are wrong about the "All native americans come from Siberians" bit, you're right about that. That was the standard line in science until recently. But in fact, the true founding people of the Americas descend from a common ancestor shared with Australian Aborigines and Melanesians, aka ASIATIC N.EGROES.


The first Americans were descended from Australian aborigines, according to evidence in a new BBC documentary.

Until now, native Americans were believed to have descended from Asian ancestors who arrived over a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska and then migrated across the whole of north and south America. The land bridge was formed 11,000 years ago during the ice age, when sea level dropped.

However, the new evidence shows that these people did not arrive in an empty wilderness. Stone tools and charcoal from the site in Brazil show evidence of human habitation as long ago as 50,000 years.

The skull dimensions and facial features match most closely the native people of Australia and Melanesia. These people date back to about 60,000 years, and were themselves descended from the first humans, who left Africa about 100,000 years ago.

But how could the early Australians have travelled more than 13,500 kilometres (8,450 miles) at that time? The answer comes from more cave paintings, this time from the Kimberley, a region at the northern tip of Western Australia.
 Quoting: BBC
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 11:56 AM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Source:

[link to news.bbc.co.uk]
Nemesis8
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09/24/2021 11:58 AM

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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
White men were the first to set foot on the North American continent.

That is a fact that is proved by cave man technology.

These fucknut leftists will set themselves on fire before they will acknowledge why the Clovis Point is called “THE CLOVIS POINT.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77724900


Correct

"First-born among the continents," says Agassiz, "America has been falsely denominated the New World. Hers was the first dry land lifted out of the waters, hers the first shore washed by the ocean that enveloped all the earth beside: and while Europe was represented only by islands rising here and there above the sea, America already stretched in an unbroken line of land from Nova Scotia to the far West." That ancient America, as we shall see, was inhabited by the grand race of men whose deathless traces have been left upon the surface of the globe and among the stars of the sky.

secrets
"Fiat Lux et Veritas"
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:00 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
White men were the first to set foot on the North American continent.

That is a fact that is proved by cave man technology.

These fucknut leftists will set themselves on fire before they will acknowledge why the Clovis Point is called “THE CLOVIS POINT.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77724900


Correct

"First-born among the continents," says Agassiz, "America has been falsely denominated the New World. Hers was the first dry land lifted out of the waters, hers the first shore washed by the ocean that enveloped all the earth beside: and while Europe was represented only by islands rising here and there above the sea, America already stretched in an unbroken line of land from Nova Scotia to the far West." That ancient America, as we shall see, was inhabited by the grand race of men whose deathless traces have been left upon the surface of the globe and among the stars of the sky.

secrets
 Quoting: Nemesis8


All of you claiming this have no sources, data or evidence. Also, you're completely missing a genetic link between those supposed "first american" Caucasians and your present selves. It is KNOWN when Caucasians came to the Americas. Its not a secret. Your arrival here is recorded in modern history. There is really no point in trying this as only a child would fall for it (or think that it would work).
Where Eagles Dare
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09/24/2021 12:02 PM

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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Yes, but did they find my wallet? I've been looking for that sucker for what seems like forever.
Isaiah 40:31 - But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:04 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
RED HAIRED GIANTS N America

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:06 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
RED HAIRED GIANTS N America

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76009415


"Giants" would be a completely different race if not (sub)species of people. How would that translate to you staying here? Also, the "indians" who encountered those giants said they arrived in boats as well. Sorry not sorry. lmao
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:09 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Source:

[link to ] news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/430944.stm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80559032



cruise Thats like CNN
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:15 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
God leaving more dinosaur bones to test us 9n the form pf footprints.
Nibiru*is*flat

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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Those are the footprints of white people from western Europe that brought over cave man technology we call CLOVIS POINT.

It’s a specific kind of stone arrowhead that clearly came from western Europe - and that means WHITE PEOPLE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77724900


My tribe , I am about thirty percent, has Basque DNA, which also supports the Clovis Hypothethis. Funny thing is, they don't know how the hell the Basque got here.
AfterAll

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09/24/2021 12:29 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Who is to say that mankind in one form or another hasn't been here, got destroyed or destroyed most of itself and started again? I recall reading about a miner who had opened a new ore vein and found a fossilized cooking vessel. It was down deep in the ground. It made me wonder if mankind hasn't been here a lot longer than we thought, and maybe we have resets to where there are few left and these folks that survive start populating the world again.

Most ancient cultures have a flood story. Maybe that was the last reset?
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 12:34 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
fake as shit
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 01:07 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
We don't know what to believe anymore and it was by design.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 01:08 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
They can't even get a vaccine right. Fuck those hubris mother fuckers!
eatinmraw
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09/24/2021 01:08 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
probably nancy pelosi and maxine waters walking around barefoot.




 Quoting: Grove Street (revived)


gross

eekalert
 Quoting: EllenRipley




Oh geez...looks like raw bread dough bein stuffed in those shoes. That's just gross.


tyrone1
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09/24/2021 01:37 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Realistically, certain fields of sciences are almost useless until we find technical means to get data.

Paleontology is one of them. We just started to get ancient DNA and it's becoming cheaper and cheaper to get results. Like Geology before plate tectonics, we were going with best guesses about the very rare and often in majority incompleted remains of hominid fossils.

Add the politics and we are just agreeing to keep the peace with various small groups like the Native Americans. That's what Clovis 1st has always been about and why the Solutrean hypothesis has been ridiculed so much. That's why the CHinese will never talk about the hundreds of snow white skin and ginger hairs mummies lying around on their lands.

Expect great revelations about our extended human family as we get data and expertise to interpret it. They had differnt biology and brain functions, stuff fossilized bones, basicly rocks, can't tell much about.
Nemesis8
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
White men were the first to set foot on the North American continent.

That is a fact that is proved by cave man technology.

These fucknut leftists will set themselves on fire before they will acknowledge why the Clovis Point is called “THE CLOVIS POINT.”
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77724900


Correct

"First-born among the continents," says Agassiz, "America has been falsely denominated the New World. Hers was the first dry land lifted out of the waters, hers the first shore washed by the ocean that enveloped all the earth beside: and while Europe was represented only by islands rising here and there above the sea, America already stretched in an unbroken line of land from Nova Scotia to the far West." That ancient America, as we shall see, was inhabited by the grand race of men whose deathless traces have been left upon the surface of the globe and among the stars of the sky.

secrets
 Quoting: Nemesis8


All of you claiming this have no sources, data or evidence. Also, you're completely missing a genetic link between those supposed "first american" Caucasians and your present selves. It is KNOWN when Caucasians came to the Americas. Its not a secret. Your arrival here is recorded in modern history. There is really no point in trying this as only a child would fall for it (or think that it would work).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80915711



I spent decades on this. If you enter my site below, and make it to the “Basis” page, you will see the words: “… no man can convince another of right or wrong”. Choose wisely from there. See you on the other side.
"Fiat Lux et Veritas"
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
The pic in the times link looks to have 6 toes
Sonflower17

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09/24/2021 02:27 PM

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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Serious question here: how do they get ancient DNA from dried up bones?

I did a Living DNA test a while back and it said my (mitochondrial) maternal haplogroup B2 was 24% from the United States.
The rest of the "shared mitochondrial DNA" breakdown was thus:
China 20.6%
South Korea 20.2%
North Korea 20.2%
Philippines 9.5%
Khamnigan 7.1%
Kyrgyzstan 7.9%
Mongolia 8.4%
Taiwan 6.8%
Uyghur 7.3%
Khakassia 6.4%
Tuvinian 6.8%
Altai 6.4%
Tibet 4.7%
Kalmyk 3.6%
Buryat 4.3%
Kazakhstan 3.3%
Ainu 2.0%
Yakut 1.4%
Japan 2.1%
Uzbekistan 1.4%
Turkmenistan 1.1%

I wanted to get my dad's side done, but my brother sent in a sample that they said wasn't sufficient and then he died before he could send in another sample. If they couldn't get a good enough sample from my living brother, how do they get good enough samples from dead people?
Sonflower17
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Discussion on pre-flood civilizations is a huge no no according to TPTB.

Look for this thread to be deleted.


I'm guessing that they don't want you to know, that the same god that's in control now, was also in control back then. Their technology was more advanced than ours is today.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 02:43 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
The god in control back then was Baphomet...aka Lucifer, aka the devil.

It's the same immoral God that Democrats worship today.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 03:16 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Serious question here: how do they get ancient DNA from dried up bones?
 Quoting: Sonflower17


They have success with teeth and in the thick bones behind our hears. Fossilization starts from the outside and stuff can be preserved inside for tens of millions of years. A crazy scientist, a woman hehe, cutted a dino bone and found preserved tissues, veins and red blood cells. Of course she lost her job an everybody said she was wrong.

Anywway, unless you gave them a skull and teeth, they were not working with the same kind of sample. Also, ancient DNA extraction is a specialized field, it's not the same hardware as the cheapo commercial tests. It's only a couple thousands dollars per sample, before it was a couple of tens of thousands.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 04:03 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
They sure it wasn't 24,678 years ago?
Makes a BIG difference!

WHAT IDIOCY!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80914906


Between 23,000 and 21,000 BC so yes I think they are sure it wasn't 24,678.

Maybe you should read the article, or can't you read ?
 Quoting: Ahatmose


24678 years ago was 22657 BC so youre both retarded.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
They sure it wasn't 24,678 years ago?
Makes a BIG difference!

WHAT IDIOCY!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80914906


Between 23,000 and 21,000 BC so yes I think they are sure it wasn't 24,678.

Maybe you should read the article, or can't you read ?
 Quoting: Ahatmose


24678 years ago was 22657 BC so youre both retarded.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57021259


and i just went through this thread and only one who was even close was the dude talking about red haired giants, rest of you, retarded.
Anonymous Coward
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09/24/2021 04:15 PM
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
Some of the animals roaming around then: Woolly Mammoths, Mastodons, Giant Sloths, Saber Toothed Tigers....

And people would take them on just with sticks and rocks.

The true Stone Age experience!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80910775


Sorry. Wasn’t that way.
Red Hot Chilean Pepe
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
[link to www.sci-news.com] (thanks, Ahatmose!)

[link to www.nps.gov (secure)] (scroll down)
[link to www.nbcnews.com (secure)]
[link to www.koat.com (secure)]
[link to www.nytimes.com (secure)]

All kinds of stuff. Kids playing, a giant sloth hiding, a mile and a half beeline path...

Take a look. There are other stories on this.
 Quoting: Swamprat


Yet another challenge to the 14.000 years top oldest people in America. There are much older reports, in South America data showing 43.000 years old human settlements exists but is never spoken of. There are also pre hominid fossils that are completely hidden and not talked about but by a few marginalized anthropologists.
All great truths begin as Blasphemies.
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
The oldest ones came from Africa/Mediterranean area, after that from Asia alonh the Bering straight, some came with boats from Polynesia. The red haired giants were rare as they were vikings averaging from 6 to 7 feet tall who held a small population in north america, natives were up to 5'5" at best so they thought of them as giants but eventually killed them off with sheer numbers.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
The oldest ones came from Africa/Mediterranean area, after that from Asia alonh the Bering straight, some came with boats from Polynesia. The red haired giants were rare as they were vikings averaging from 6 to 7 feet tall who held a small population in north america, natives were up to 5'5" at best so they thought of them as giants but eventually killed them off with sheer numbers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 57021259


The oldest ones DO NOT come from Africa, but from Asia. Melanesians and Australian aborigines are N.egroes but they are NOT AFRICANS. Neither are we indigenous Americans who share a common ancestor with them.
deplorable scottfree

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09/24/2021 04:32 PM

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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
How is the age verified?
Was there a coin with a date? (sarcastic).

Ages are always just a guess with this sort of thing because there isn't anything that goes along with it to put a date to.

Funny.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78546843


Gosh, why don't people read the article. They carbon dated seeds that were found above and below the fossil.
 Quoting: Ahatmose


You are operating on the assumption the decay is constant; it aint.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80915168


bump

I'll take: How has oxygen varied throughout the millennia in our atmosphere for 500 alex.

Not accurate at all. Like the theory of evolution.
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Re: 23,000 Year Old Human Footprints found in White Sands New Mexico
How'd they get that number? Probably used the PCR test!! LoL





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