Christ is the flaming sword that guards tree of life in the Garden of Eden.

There is one God.

Cut to the chase.

I saw you lost that the Father created Jesus.

Do you still affirm that?

Yes or no.

Heresey?

Who is Jesus' Father?
Who is Jesus' God?

It's NOT Himself.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;

and to my God, and your God.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 01/16/2020 09:03 PM

Father and Jesus are ONE.

"The Father"

Jesus, Father and Holy Spirit is ONE God.

WHAT do you think "firstborn" means"?????

My God YOU are STUPID.

Father God was NEVER "born", yet Jesus makes this statement.

John 18:37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

John 17 shows us that Jesus was WITH the Father in the beginning.

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Genesis 1:26 verse of "Let Us make man in OUR image".
Only Jesus and the Father would qualify as the "Us" and "our" individuals.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Hebrews 1

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

You are going to hell for calling her stupid.

The Father SENT Jesus.
The Father SENDS the Holy SPirit.

SENDING requires AUTHORITY.

Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit is ONE God.

Malachi 2:10
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

John 20:17
17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,

Heresey?

Who is Jesus' Father?
Who is Jesus' God?

It's NOT Himself.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;

and to my God, and your God.

...

Malachi 2:10
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

John 20:17
17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,

Jesus is not a human being anymore.

AND He NEVER WAS the Father.

The phrase "my Father" occurs 56 times in 53 verses in the New Testament in the KJV.

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]


Jesus' declaration of "My Father" is in these 50 verses.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Matthew 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Matthew 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, my Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

John 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Revelation 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

TLS.. how many times have you used this same argument?

It means he's the ruler of creation.

By the way, since you are now trying to say that Jesus WAS created, WHY then did you agree to a post where Paul says Jesus has "no beginning of days"? Lol.

Liar.

I will also appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth (Psalm 89:27).

And he is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 1:15).

FIRSTBORN is STILL "firstborn".

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not;

for I am not yet ascended to my Father:

but go to my brethren, and say unto them,

I ascend unto my Father, and your Father;

and to my God, and your God.
=====================================
John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,

but have everlasting life.

"Image" is just that.

A "picture" of the original - although that is a poor description.

1. So...the Father is GREATER than Himself? John 14:28 & John 10:29

14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

2. The Father does ONLY the Father's Will? John 6:37-39

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


3. The Father PRAYS to the Father? Matthew 26:36-42, Mark 14:32-39 & John 17

Matthew 26:36-42

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.
37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

Mark 14:32-39

32 And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.
33 And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;
34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.

John 17

Thread: Son of God - Jesus' Relationship To The Father - John 17 and More - Bible Study


4. The Father SENT Himself? 47 verses in the 4 Gospels
5. The Father says what the Father has said? John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


6. The Father had to LEARN FROM the Father???????? John 5:19 & John 8:28

5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


7. The Father gives THANKS to Himself?????? Luke 10:21 & John 11:41-42

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

John 11

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.


8. The Father doesn't know when KNOW when the Father will return???????? Matthew 24:36

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


9. The Father says to to ask the Father in the FATHER'S name???????????? John 14:13

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


10. The Father sits at the Father's right hand?????? Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:61-62

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 14

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.


11. The Father ASCENDED to the Father??????? John 20:17

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


12. The Father GAVE the Father authority???? Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

13. The Father said that only the Father is good?????? Luke 18:19

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

14. The Father TOLD the Father what to say???????
15. The Father SENT Himself??????? Said by Jesus 47 times[ John 12:49-50

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

15. The Father gave the Father the Revelation?????

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

1 John 2:22-23 “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”

1 John 5:5 “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


John 17:3 “And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

John 20:31 “But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through his name.”

2 John 1:3 “Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.”

M

I know those bible verses. What is your point?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

What purpose does it serve for Jesus to say "He sent" me..."the Father"..."MY Father"..."I am the Son of God"...

IF it's NOT 100% accurate?

So ALL the times that Jesus states "the Father" / "MY Father" / "He who sent me" doesn't mean anything?

How can anyone claim to love Jesus but yet you don't take His Words seriously?

How can anyone love Jesus when you don't take EVERTHING He says on face value...as Gospel?

Do the others in the Bible know Jesus BETTER than Jesus knows Himself?

You either Believe what Jesus SAID or you don't.

You obviously don't.

No in this case it means pre-eminence in rank, like a ruler.