The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) | |
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Goddrunk
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Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 06:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) tell me about templar Quoting: Anonymous Coward 923838[link to www.godlikeproductions.com] The Knights Templar is best known for being the ancient organization which is seen as the founding fathers of the Free-Masonry movement. Founded originally as a 'monastic guard' for the Crusades, the Order, which grew from 9 to thousands were known for charity, power and wealth. They answered only to the Papacy in the beginning but eventually were supported by many European Monarchies as well. Growing out of favor as their power and wealth grew, the Papacy and France sought to put an end to them in 1307, and by 1314 they were officially disbanded. Spiritually they were also referred to the "Temple of Solomon" which in part gave rise to Freemasonry ideation. Freemasons claim they were set up to look heretical in order for the Holy See to gain their power and wealth (heresy was required in those days for Roman Catholic judgment) but others claim they did indeed give rise to the worship of Baphomet, a goat-like god-idol in league with satanic worship. (The symbology has lasted in freemasonry in current times.). Jacque De Molay was the last Templar executed, successfully cursing Pope Clement and the King of France. [the Freemasons youth organization is named for him]. Their secret meetings were used in prosecutions against them in which they were accused of Baphomet worship, homosexuality and sedition. They became lenders and bankers to the wealthy and royal families of Europe, circumventing bans on usury (interest-lending); and because they were immune from prosecution by all but the Papacy, as Innocent had declared, they became quite powerful politically and financially in Europe. Their reported 'rituals' became the foundations for other secret societies, notably masonry. The Nazis, especially Himmler, saw the Knights Templar as a prototype for the Third Reich hierarchy along with other clandestine groups. Quoting: [link to www.shoaheducation.com] Last Edited by Aenon on 04/01/2010 06:38 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
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Goddrunk
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 928228 United States 04/01/2010 06:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Error of Replacement Theology [link to www.therefinersfire.org] debunked jesuit apologizing there's plenty of dangerous christian movements to go around, including your futurism. [link to continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com] |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 06:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Error of Replacement Theology Quoting: Anonymous Coward 928228[link to www.therefinersfire.org] debunked jesuit apologizing there's plenty of dangerous christian movements to go around, including your futurism. [link to continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com] Let's add SDA-ism to that list as well. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
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Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) For those who wish to understand the falsity of Seventh-Day Adventism, please refer to the following links: Introduction The history of the Seventh Day Adventist Church [link to www.carm.org] Church structure of the Seventh-day Adventist Church [link to www.carm.org] What does Seventh Day Adventism teach? [link to www.carm.org] Issues and Answers Does the Bible allow Christians to worship on Sunday? [link to www.carm.org] Scriptures dealing with the first day of the week. [link to www.carm.org] Does CARM recommend the Seventh-day Adventist Church? [link to www.carm.org] Resources [link to www.formeradventist.com] "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 106069 United States 04/01/2010 07:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Well put, sir. Personally, I'm glad to be a circumcized Christian; it's more sanitary and better looking than being uncircumcized. False zionism has really warped Christianity. Zechariah 11:10-1 explains that the covenant gets cancelled when the high priests pay 30 pieces of silver for the betrayal of the son of God. Check various versions of Zech 11; KJV, Latin Vulgate & Jerusalem Bible. Zechariah was killed by the high priests. So, Judaism has been false since at least 500BC. Arabs also consider themselves to be offspring of Abraham, entitled to the covenant. [link to www.whtt.org] explains the origin of false zionism spins on scriptures... Rothschild funding of Scofield Bible footnotes, imposed via Bible colleges teaching Hal Lindsey and other war hawks, like Hagee. "When the LORD SHALL BUILD UP ZION, he shall appear in his glory"- Psalm 102:16 KJV or 101 other versions. Govs of the world shall oppose the zion of the Lord, in Acts 4:26 and Psalm 2:2 KJV. Masonic Israel is defeated when the Lord comes to claim it, in Zech 14:2 & Luke 19:41-44. "The indignation of the Lord is upon ALL NATIONS, and his fury upon ALL THEIR ARMIES"- Isaiah 34:2. The Lord overthrows the rulers in Isaiah 24:21-22 and Psalm 110:5-6 KJV or 109 other versions, Rev 11:15, Isaiah 14:5 and 23:9, Rev 19:11/19. But Linsey would have us all ignoring atrocities of war (Ezekiel 9:3-9), and worshipping jews who reject Christ, and believing we go to hell if we don't support masonic Israel totally. Masonic Israel is not the same as the Zion of the Lord. Armageddon depopulation operations aimed at Torah jews and moslems & Christians by the masonics at hand. I got banned at GLP for trying to post an article on this, from posting any threads and cannot always reply either. Webtv is a communal ISP, so I can still reply by unplugging my unit and erasing cookies first, which gives me another #, until they ban that one also. Apparently GLP is run by zionists, as psy-ops, which explains the rabid anti-christian pressure at GODLIKE? productions. They lure those not rabidly against God, and hit us with hostily and peer pressures and propaganda, while banning real whistleblower activists like me. Now, to see of this reply gets through the ban... [email protected] ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Well put, sir. Personally, I'm glad to be a circumcized Christian; it's more sanitary and better looking than being uncircumcized. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 106069False zionism has really warped Christianity. Zechariah 11:10-1 explains that the covenant gets cancelled when the high priests pay 30 pieces of silver for the betrayal of the son of God. Check various versions of Zech 11; KJV, Latin Vulgate & Jerusalem Bible. Zechariah was killed by the high priests. So, Judaism has been false since at least 500BC. Arabs also consider themselves to be offspring of Abraham, entitled to the covenant. [link to www.whtt.org] explains the origin of false zionism spins on scriptures... Rothschild funding of Scofield Bible footnotes, imposed via Bible colleges teaching Hal Lindsey and other war hawks, like Hagee. "When the LORD SHALL BUILD UP ZION, he shall appear in his glory"- Psalm 102:16 KJV or 101 other versions. Govs of the world shall oppose the zion of the Lord, in Acts 4:26 and Psalm 2:2 KJV. Masonic Israel is defeated when the Lord comes to claim it, in Zech 14:2 & Luke 19:41-44. "The indignation of the Lord is upon ALL NATIONS, and his fury upon ALL THEIR ARMIES"- Isaiah 34:2. The Lord overthrows the rulers in Isaiah 24:21-22 and Psalm 110:5-6 KJV or 109 other versions, Rev 11:15, Isaiah 14:5 and 23:9, Rev 19:11/19. But Linsey would have us all ignoring atrocities of war (Ezekiel 9:3-9), and worshipping jews who reject Christ, and believing we go to hell if we don't support masonic Israel totally. Masonic Israel is not the same as the Zion of the Lord. Armageddon depopulation operations aimed at Torah jews and moslems & Christians by the masonics at hand. I got banned at GLP for trying to post an article on this, from posting any threads and cannot always reply either. Webtv is a communal ISP, so I can still reply by unplugging my unit and erasing cookies first, which gives me another #, until they ban that one also. Apparently GLP is run by zionists, as psy-ops, which explains the rabid anti-christian pressure at GODLIKE? productions. They lure those not rabidly against God, and hit us with hostily and peer pressures and propaganda, while banning real whistleblower activists like me. Now, to see of this reply gets through the ban... [email protected] ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Although I don't agree with everything you say, there is truth in what you say. God bless you. Last Edited by Aenon on 04/01/2010 07:20 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Nyhee7 User ID: 925613 United States 04/01/2010 07:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) When you don't follow the gospel of Paul, the true message becomes quite clear.... Isaiah 8:16-22 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17 And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [4] it is because there is no light in them. 21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. 22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness. Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Matthew 5:19-20 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Joshua, or Jesus taught mercy. He didn't change the letter of the law, he showed how to live the law. What is law? A list of right from wrong, mostly. No matter if you are a human, an angel or a God, there is an eternal list of right from wrong, not because someone says so, but because the things on the list that are wrong lead to death, suicide, destruction of others and self. Tell me Goddrunk, tell me, if you murder someone because their snoring bothered you, would it be wrong? Would it be wrong if you were an angel? Would it be wrong if you were a god? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 929799 United States 04/01/2010 07:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) forever lost, just like the jews in jesus' time. jesus was the scriptures robed in flesh. you must walk them out in order to follow him. and here is all of yalls problem: Luke 12:47-49 (King James Version) 47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? youre responsible for what you know, not what you dont. dont claim to know the bible if you havent lived it. and if you know it, why arent you living it? |
Rev. Moon Jew
User ID: 798834 United States 04/01/2010 07:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) You are so deep in your apostacy and error, you must be drunk, Goddrunk! You are denying the very teachings of Yeshua and even denying Him, as He is Lord of the Sabbath. YHWH will deal with you for your blasphemy. I truly pity you! "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) What is Historicism? The Historicist prophetic interpretation is a progressive and on going fulfillment of prophecy. The Historicist believes that the book of Revelation explains (in symbols) the entire course of history of the Church from the first century A.D. to the end of time. What Was the Origin of Historicism? The Historicist doctrine had its roots and teachings from some of the early church fathers. These early church fathers continued with additional teachings and ideas over a period of at least four centuries. The exact year the term ‘Historicist’ came to be is not known, but the teachings and interpretations began around the latter of first century A.D. Historicism has to be updated and changed since its beginning, because of the many ‘chosen’ historical events that have passed. There are at least five different definitions of Historicism. 1. The historical account starts in the time of Daniel, (around 600 B.C.) 2. The historical account starts at the time of Christ, (0-34 A.D.) 3. The historical account starts at, or around 70 A.D. 4. Matthew chapter 24 is fulfilled. 5. Matthew chapter 24 is partly fulfilled. What are some problems with Historicism? According to the Bible, the prophecies had immediate meanings for the people to whom they were written. The Bible does not say hundreds or thousands of years, but soon; quickly; or near. (See: Rev.1:1-3.) All prophecy is a testimony of Jesus Christ and his gospel. For example: The book of Revelation is a symbolic portrayal of what Christ has already done and its relevance for that future. Jesus Christ is at the center of the prophecies, not men and/or the history of men. Historicism picks and chooses which historical events that will best fit what they think is a fulfillment. Therefore, Historicism can be labeled as a ‘jigsaw puzzle or match game’, because it tries to match or fit Bible prophecies and symbols with past historical and current events. Historicism will always try to find a sequence of events that starts from the time the prophecy was written, right up to our present period of time. Summary 1. Historicism is not a Biblical doctrine. 2. Historicism is a doctrine of men, with unbiblical teachings and interpretations. 3. It is a teaching and doctrine that began with the early church fathers, and cannot be found in the Bible. 4. Historicists pick and choose which historical events that will best fit what theythink is a fulfillment. Therefore, Historicism is a ‘jigsaw puzzle or a match game’. The Historicist notes that the Revelation had its function first in counseling and for encouraging the early Christians in that period of time, but at the sametime extending its prophetic symbols beyond their understanding and range of vision for the far future. If anyone doesn’t believe or understand the first three verses of Revelation,neither will they believe or understand the rest of the book. When a person is stubborn and/or unwilling to accept and believe these verses then the rest of the book can mean anything that the reader desires. It is then impossible for anyone to allow the Bible to interpret itself, and men can make up any interpretation they want. Historicism is a fable. [link to www.victorparma.com] "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) You are so deep in your apostacy and error, you must be drunk, Goddrunk! Quoting: Rev. Moon JewYou are denying the very teachings of Yeshua and even denying Him, as He is Lord of the Sabbath. YHWH will deal with you for your blasphemy. I truly pity you! I'll pray for you too. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Nyhee7 User ID: 925613 United States 04/01/2010 07:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Summary 1. Historicism is not a Biblical doctrine. 2. Historicism is a doctrine of men, with unbiblical teachings and interpretations. 3. It is a teaching and doctrine that began with the early church fathers, and cannot be found in the Bible. 4. Historicists pick and choose which historical events that will best fit what theythink is a fulfillment. Therefore, Historicism is a ‘jigsaw puzzle or a match game’. The Historicist notes that the Revelation had its function first in counseling and for encouraging the early Christians in that period of time, but at the sametime extending its prophetic symbols beyond their understanding and range of vision for the far future. If anyone doesn’t believe or understand the first three verses of Revelation,neither will they believe or understand the rest of the book. When a person is stubborn and/or unwilling to accept and believe these verses then the rest of the book can mean anything that the reader desires. It is then impossible for anyone to allow the Bible to interpret itself, and men can make up any interpretation they want. Historicism is a fable. Nice try at slight of hand, but I never proposed a historist point of view. I stated that when you dismiss the gospel of Paul, or the letters of Paul, the truth in the bible becomes clear, crystal clear. Good try though. |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Why "Futurism" is Biblical. Chuck Missler - Revelation - Session 12 - The 70th Week 1h11m21s Chuck Missler - Revelation - Session 12 - The 70th Week The Book of Revelation is the only book of the Bible with a Promise to the reader! Why? What makes this book so special? Revelation is a "lens" that puts the entire Bible into focus. The lens is focused on the person of Jesus Christ, and his destiny is imminent. This is a book of victory: We are overcomers! We are the ultimate winners in the game of life! (I read the ending: we win!) One of the reasons this book strikes us as strange is because of our lack of understanding concerning the Old Testament. The Book of Revelation consists of 404 verses that contain over 800 allusions to the Old Testament. These are detailed, along with Chuck's analysis of the design and structure of this fascinating book. Learn about the past, present and future of the Church and our ultimate destiny. This is an ideal "first study" and foundational for every Christian. * Introduction - Some general comments about the Book of Revelation and its uniqueness. Based on grammar alone, we know that Daniel 9:27 is NOT about Jesus Christ - [link to ldolphin.org] How Jesus Christ's ministry ended exactly on the 69th Week Please Read Carefully: [link to www.biblebb.com] 2. Determining the Messiah's arrival Daniel 9:25 says, "[The time] unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. " The sixty-nine weeks leading to the coming of the Messiah are divided into two time periods of seven and sixty-two weeks. Verse 27 indicates that the seventieth week is separated from the other sixty-nine, so only 483 years of the total 490 involved in Daniel's prophecy span the time between the command and the coming of the Messiah. That is the time period we will consider here. a) The first seven weeks (1) When they commence Verse 25 indicates that they begin with "the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem"--but history records several such commands given on different dates. It's important to know which one is right since a different starting date would result in a different ending date. Bible scholars have suggested three possibilities. a) At the decree of Cyrus? Ezra 1:1-4 records a decree made by Cyrus in 536 B. C. Some scholars think that must be the decree mentioned in Daniel's prophecy because God said of Cyrus through Isaiah, "He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure; even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid" (44:28). But 483 years subtracted from 536 B. C. takes us to 53 B. C. , many years before the birth of Christ and still more from the inception of His ministry--a discrepancy of over eighty years. Over the span of hundreds of years eighty years or so may seem close, but our God isn't close--He's exact! Some have proposed a revision of the Ptolemaic calendar (commonly used before the time of Copernicus) to account for the discrepancy, but that seems an inadequate solution because we can't prove a discrepancy. Also, the actual decree of Cyrus provided only for building the Temple in Jerusalem--not for rebuilding Jerusalem's walls (a necessary part of restoring the city). Thus Cyrus's decree is an unlikely candidate for the command of Daniel 9:25. (b) At the first decree of Artaxerxes? The first decree of Artaxerxes in 458 B. C. (Ezra 7:11-26) is considered a possibility. However, 483 years from 458 B. C. takes us to A. D. 26. But the only event of significance in the life of Christ remotely close to A. D. 26 is His baptism. However that wasn't His presentation to the nation as the Messiah, but to the Father for approval. It was a transaction between the Son and the Father, and there's no indication that the people at large understood what happened at Jesus' baptism (Matt. 3:13-17). Also, the first decree of Artaxerxes did not provide for the rebuilding of Jerusalem. (c) At the second degree of Artaxerxes? This is the best candidate for the decree spoken of in Daniel 9:25. Two scholars have convincingly researched this view: Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard, who over hundred years ago wrote the classic book The Coming Prince (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1954) , and Dr. Harold Hoehner of Dallas Theological Seminary, who wrote Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1977). Dr. Hoehner confirmed Anderson's precise computations, differing with him only concerning the proper year of the accession of Artaxerxes to his throne. Ezra 4 records that the restoration of the Temple was temporarily suspended because the builders were accused of also rebuilding the city without authorization. Permission for rebuilding the city came only with the second decree of Artaxerxes "in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes" (Neh. 2:1). Artaxerxes's reign started in 465 B. C. , so the date referred to in Nehemiah 2:1 was the month of Nisan in the year 445 B. C. Because a king's reign was dated from the first of the month of his reign, Sir Robert Anderson thought that since no other date was mentioned in Nehemiah 2, the date Nehemiah spoke of was probably the first of Nisan, 445 B. C. --or March 14, 445 B. C. according to our calendar. During the seven weeks indicated in Daniel 9:25 the city of Jerusalem would be rebuilt "even in troublous times. " The books of Ezra and Nehemiah reveal that's precisely what happened (Ezra 9 and 10; Neh. 4, 6, 9, and 13). Yet during that forty-nine year period crucial events occurred in the history of Israel: the city was rebuilt, the Temple established, and the canon of the Old Testament was completed. From the close of that time to the advent of John the Baptist there was no prophet in Israel. The prophecy that the street and wall of Jerusalem would be rebuilt is best understood to refer to its internal structures and external fortifications (the Hebrew words used literally refer to the marketplace and surrounding moat of the city). The prophecy required the complete restoration of Jerusalem take place in forty-nine years. Since it was during the half century after the second decree of Artaxerxes that history records Jerusalem was rebuilt and completed, it seems that decree must be the one that started the seventy weeks prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27. (2) When they conclude The seven weeks of years concluded in 396 B. C. , forty-nine years after the second decree of Artaxerxes in 445B. C. b) The sixty-two weeks (1) When they commence In 396 B. C. , following the forty-nine years of rebuilding Jerusalem, a period of sixty-two weeks of years (434 years) commenced. Simple addition shows that the total number of years between the second decree of Artaxerxes and the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. Each of those years consisted of 360 days. Thus the total number of days involved is 173,880 days. (2) When they conclude The phrase "the Messiah, the Prince" (Heb., mashiach nagid) is formal terminology that means "the Anointed One, the Ruler. " The Hebrew word translated "prince" (nagid) was first used of King Saul and then of other kings. It is a title associated with kingly authority and is applied here to the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ as a prince and ruler. But what particular event in Christ's life marks the end of the sixty-two weeks? Two popular views are His baptism and triumphal entry into Jerusalem. (a) At Christ's baptism? Some think the appearance spoken of in Daniel 9:25 refers to His baptism. But as we already discussed, that appearance was a presentation to the Father. Those present were unaware of what was occurring, and the Father's declaration was, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) --not a declaration of Christ's kingly authority. (b) At Christ's triumphal entry? The interpretation that makes the most sense is the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem since that was when He was presented to the Jewish people as the Messianic Prince. The test of this theory is whether the triumphal entry occurred 173,880 days after the second decree of Artaxerxes. Working from March 14, 445 B. C. (the date of Artaxerxes' second decree according to our calendar) , Sir Robert Anderson calculated by the use of astronomical calendars and charts that the day of the coming of the Messiah was April 6, A. D. 32. Such calendars and charts helped him determine the timing of the Jewish new moons by which the Passovers were determined. One of the problems Anderson had to resolve in his calculations was that between the decree of Artaxerxes and the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem is a period of 477 years and 24 days. After deducting one year to account for the fact that 1 B. C. and A. D. 1 are not two years but one, that left Anderson with a total of 476 years 24 days or a total of 173,764 days--not the necessary 173,880 days. That's close--but our God is precise! Anderson next added 119 days to his figure for the 119 leap years represented by 476 years. That results in a figure of 173,883 days--three days too many! But realizing that the Julian calendar on which our 365 day year is based is slightly inaccurate compared to an actual solar year, Anderson checked with the Royal Observatory in London and found that a 365 day year exceeds a solar year by 1/128th of a day. That fraction of 476 years is three days, which when subtracted from 173,883 yields a difference of 173,880 days--precisely the number of days predicted in Daniel 9:25! More recently Dr. Harold Hoehner used modern astronomical charts and computers to confirm the work of Sir Robert Anderson. However, he used a different starting date than Anderson. That's because he knew that Medo-Persian kings didn't include the year of their accession to the throne to reckon the length of their reigns. That meant Artaxerxes wasn't considered king until 464 B. C. , and thus rather than using 445 B. C. as the year of Artaxerxes's second decree (as Anderson did) , Hoehner used 444 B. C. (twenty years after Artaxerxes was first recognized as king--Neh. 2:1). It also meant that the first of Nisan fell on March 30 (according to the new moons of 444 B. C. ) rather than March 5. Using the same adjustments as Anderson, Hoehner multiplied 476 (the number of years between the second decree of Artaxerxes and the presentation of the Messiah in Jerusalem) by 365. 24219879 (the decimal equivalent of 365 days, five hours, forty-eight minutes, and forty-four seconds--which accounts for the 1/128 difference between calendar and solar days observed by Anderson) and obtained a product of 173,855. 28662404 days (173,855 days, six hours, fifty-two minutes, and forty-four seconds). That's twenty-five days longer than the 173,880 that ought to exist from the time of the decree to the time of the Messiah's appearance. But Hoehner was able to adjust that amount by the difference between the starting dates of Anderson (March 5) and himself (March 30) --a period of exactly twenty-five days! Thus regardless of the starting date used, both Anderson and Hoehner were able to show the precision with which God predicted and fulfilled the presentation of Jesus Christ as Messiah and Ruler. Conclusion When Jesus entered Jerusalem in triumph it wasn't on a whim. When He said, "Mine hour is not yet come," He knew what He was talking about: God has declared "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done" (Isa. 46:10). God told Daniel precisely when the Messiah would enter Jerusalem and be acknowledged as King with shouts of "Hosanna to the Son of David!" (Matt. 21:9). The "gap" between the 69th and the 70th week, and the purpose of the "gap" [link to www.blueletterbible.org] The Interval Verses which imply a gap between the 69th and the 70th: Isa 61:1-2 (re: Lk 4:18-20) Rev 12:5-6 Also Isa 54:7; Hos 3:4-5; Amos 9:10-11 (Acts 15:13-18) Micah 5:2-3; Zech 9:9-10; Luke 1:31-32; 21:24. Verses which define the gap between the 69th and 70th: Lk 19:42 until Rom 11:25 -- The interval is the period for the Church which was kept secret in the Old Testament: Mt. 13:34-35; Eph 3:5, 9 -- Church was born at Pentecost: Col 1:18; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 1:5, 11, 15-16 -- Prerequisities which had to take place before the birth of the Church Atonement: Mt. 16:18, 21 Resurrection: Eph 1:20-23 Ascension: Eph 4:7-11 (spiritual gifts came only after ascension) Unique and Mysterious Character of the Church Body Concept: Eph 3:3-5,9 (Holy Spirit) Indwelling every believer: Col 1:26-27 Bride of Christ: Eph 5:22-32 Harpazo ("Rapture"): 1 Cor 15:50-58 One "New Man": Eph 2:15; Cf. Rev: 12:5 Distinguished from Jews or Gentiles: 1 Cor 10:32 Why Daniel 9:27 is the Antichrist Daniel 9:27 Quoting: And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate. We know that Daniel 9:27 is not meant for Christ, but the Antichrist, because it correlates with the little horn, man of sin, son of perdition, idol shepherd (etc) mentioned earlier in Daniel and all throughout the Bible. And not only that, but it flows with the previous verse, which says: Messiah will be "cut-off" (executed, disappearing from the "world scene"), then "the people of the prince that shall come" will destroy Jerusalem with the temple. Sometime later, the Antichrist (when he comes, and when the Jews are back in the land and the temple is rebuilt) will make a covenant with many (Israel, or "thy people" as Gabriel puts it) for one week. What Jesus meant by "the abomination of desolation", how and why it correlates with a historical event Daniel 11:29-31 Quoting: "At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. Ships of the western coastlands [a] will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant. "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. This is what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did before the arrival of Jesus, and it's recorded in the book of Daniel as well as 1 Maccabees. It also correlates with the Jewish Holiday known as Hannukah. Antiochus IV Epiphanes stopped the temple sacrifices, slew a pig on the altar, then erected a statue of Zeus in the holy temple. This act caused a revolt known as The Maccabean Revolt. Antiochus IV Epiphanes also forced Jews to cease from circumcision as well as Sabbath observance, and executed anyone who was found disobeying these rules. [link to faculty.bbc.edu] [link to virtualreligion.net] [link to christianactionforisrael.org] Now let's look at what Jesus said about this Matthew 24:15 Quoting: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Jesus warns us of a future event but uses a past event as an example. How do we know this? Event #1 - Past As previously mentioned, in Daniel 11:31 Antiochus IV Epiphanes stopped the temple sacrifice, then sets up an idol to Zeus in the temple. This act was called "the abomination that causes desolation". The phrase "the abomination that causes desolation" alone should give us pause and bring to our minds what was said in Matthew 24:15. Event #2 - Future This event will be just like the previous one, only on a worldwide scale, and much worse. Let's find out why this future event will be like the previous one, and why it is in fact yet to happen. Future: The phrase "when ye therefore shall see" alone suggests this event is a future one. Foreshadow: Jesus in Matthew 24:15 calls the future event "the abomination of desolation". Gabriel in Daniel 11:31 calls the past event "the abomination that causes desolation". Because we've already discussed what "the abomination that causes desolation" was and who committed the act, it should then be obvious what Jesus was actually talking about in Matthew 24:15. The connection is just too obvious to ignore or deny. With this understanding alone, we then know that "the holy place" is in fact a rebuilt temple. What is an "abomination"? The Greek word translated as "abomination" is used only six times in the New Testament. In all four of the six references, the word is used only in the sense of idolatry. Not only that, but the word simply means idolatry. Abomination - G946 - bdelugma bdelugma bdel'-oog-mah From G948; a detestation, that is, (specifically) idolatry: - abomination. Strong's G946 - bdelygma 1) a foul thing, a detestable thing -a) of idols and things pertaining to idolatry AV — abomination 6 [link to www.blueletterbible.org] Conclusion The act of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was largely a foreshadowing of what and who (namely the Antichrist) is to come: "the prince that shall come" will stop the temple sacrifices in the middle of the week, waltz into the temple and declare himself higher than God, perhaps erect in the temple an image of himself (Revelation 13), (which will be the abomination of desolation) then ruthlessly murder those who do not comply with his demanded worship. What exactly is "the holy place"? Matthew 24:15 Quoting: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 Quoting: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. B. The Holy Place Identified Quoting: [link to www.biblebb.com] The "holy place" (Matt. 24:15) has been variously interpreted as the land of Israel, the people of Israel, or the city of Jerusalem. Nonetheless Acts 21:28 tells us quite clearly what it is. Paul had come back to Jerusalem after his third missionary journey. He wanted to reassure the Jews that he was not a traitor to his people. To do this, he went into the Temple to go through a purification ritual with some Jewish men. While Paul was in the Temple, Jews from Asia who knew Paul was a preacher of the gospel found him and started a riot. This was their accusation against Paul: "Men of Israel, help! This is the man that teacheth all men everywhere against the people, and the law, and this place; and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place" (Acts 21:28). The phrase "holy place" in this verse can only be a reference to the Temple. And I don't see any reason for it to mean anything other than that in Matthew 24:15. The Old Testament also refers to the Temple as the Holy Place (cf Ps. 24:3). Let's further examine what Paul says 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 Quoting: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Notice what Paul says - Paul says the Son of Perdition will sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself higher than all that is called God. This agrees strongly with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 (as well as Daniel 7:8, 11; Daniel 7:20-21, 25; Daniel 11:31, 36-37; Daniel 12:11; Daniel 9:26-27; Daniel 8:25; Revelation 13:5-8) Further proof that it is in fact a rebuilt temple Revelation 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple [naos G3485] of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. Take notice that John is given a measuring reed to take measurements, which implies it's a building. Also notice that this temple is not in heaven and that it has an altar and people inside of it. Take notice that Gentiles are given the outer court. This is clearly a rebuilt temple on the earth. We also know it's a rebuilt temple on the earth because we see the two witnesses doing their thing to those who try to harm them while they are visiting: Revelation 11:3-7 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. The Greek word translated as "temple" in Revelation 11:1 is the same Greek word Paul uses as "temple" in 2 Thessalonians 2:4: 2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple [naos G3485] of God, shewing himself that he is God. 'Temple' - G3485 - NAOS G3485 naos nah-os' From a primary word; naio; (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411. NAOS - G3485 from a primary naio (to dwell) 1. used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure) 2. any heathen temple or shrine 3. metaph. the spiritual temple consisting of the saints of all ages joined together by and in Christ KJV (46) - a shrine, 1; temple, 45; NAS (45) - shrines, 1; temple, 42; temple sanctuary, 1; temples, 1; [link to www.blueletterbible.org] Last Edited by Aenon on 04/01/2010 07:36 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Lastcall User ID: 930129 United States 04/01/2010 07:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Seriously , who posts they "personal" interpretation of the Bible on a conspiracy site? Even if this was the sanest , intellectual and enlightening discourse about the nature of faith and spirituality ...its in-between the "Chemtrails" and "Reptillian" threads. Thats like storing your Bible on the same book shelf as your porn collection or hiding your stash in your grandmothers urn. BTW , your analysis is deeply flawed. The "New Covenant" was intended for the Jewish people, all of the disciples were Jewish. |
Nyhee7 User ID: 925613 United States 04/01/2010 07:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Oh, by the way, we commandment keeping, testimony of Jesus Christ keepers are dangerous, quite dangerous. We have the truth that exposes the crooked heart of the childish men and women that rule over the world right now, and those that are blind that serve them. There's a reason the dragon makes war with us, we are his betters, and he knows it. He knows it like a little brother knows the bigger brother is better at math than he is, so the little brother destroys the older brother's math book. Throw your temper tantrums while you can, little ones. Strike out and scream and cry. Daddy's coming to set you straight. |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) Seriously , who posts they "personal" interpretation of the Bible on a conspiracy site? Quoting: Lastcall 930129Even if this was the sanest , intellectual and enlightening discourse about the nature of faith and spirituality ...its in-between the "Chemtrails" and "Reptillian" threads. Thats like storing your Bible on the same book shelf as your porn collection or hiding your stash in your grandmothers urn. BTW , your analysis is deeply flawed. The "New Covenant" was intended for the Jewish people, all of the disciples were Jewish. The "New Covenant" was intended for all people, not just the Jewish people. Sorry, your analysis is flawed in light of surmounting Biblical evidence against your claim. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Rev. Moon Jew
User ID: 798834 United States 04/01/2010 07:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-18 Are calling Yeshua a liar, Goddrunk? "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Albert Einstein revstargazer (at) hotmail.com |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Quoting: Rev. Moon Jew18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-18 Are calling Yeshua a liar, Goddrunk? This was from an earlier comment I made a few months ago to another person: [link to www.youtube.com] - Law Fulfilled. [link to www.youtube.com] - I Am Free From The Old Law. [link to www.youtube.com] - You Kick Jesus Out. I'm sure you think I'm blasphemous for even bringing up such a thing. Fine. As I said before, if you think I'm wrong, then pray for me. Gal 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed. Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Gal 3:15 ¶ Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise Last Edited by Aenon on 04/01/2010 07:46 PM "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 929799 United States 04/01/2010 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) The "New Covenant" was intended for all people, not just the Jewish people. Sorry, your analysis is flawed in light of surmounting Biblical evidence against your claim. Quoting: Goddrunkso are you a gentile, a greek or of the lost tribes of israel? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 929799 United States 04/01/2010 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Goddrunk
(OP) User ID: 930906 United States 04/01/2010 07:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Possible Dangers of the Hebrew Christian Movements - Law/Works Vs. Gospel/Grace (Very Important Message ) The "New Covenant" was intended for all people, not just the Jewish people. Sorry, your analysis is flawed in light of surmounting Biblical evidence against your claim. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 929799so are you a gentile, a greek or of the lost tribes of israel? None of the above. I am one in Christ, as are my family who are likewise. "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:15 |